54213 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

Hey guys I was having a conversation with the author of a Naruto/Obito parallel pic on DA recently and I was asking him few explanation about the meaning of the comparison when someone else decided to butt in and brought up, maybe, one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard since I joined this fandom.

This person said that since we always bring up the fact that the 'new generation will surpass the old one", Naruto will give up his dream to be with Sakura and let her go, unlike Obito who became obsessed with his unrequited love for Rin and became evil.( of course all of this to favor Hinata's feelings.)

Now, aside from the fact that that statement has lots of flaws and didn't really get the reasons Obito turned out that way, I was wondering your opinion about this.

I'm starting to think that most of the people out there don't read the same manga I do.

I don't like the argument that he will never give up on Sakura.

 

One of Naruto's goals is not to be in a relationship with her. (you can argue that he has stated he wants her to like him numerous times, but I find this more cute than a serious moment) The closest would be that he wants to make her happy, and the biggest challenge for him is to understand that he really is the one that makes her happy.

 

Anyways, to the argument; Obito wasn't obsessed with Rin before. He was a good kid with a good life and a big dream. Whether he's obsessed with Rin or not now is debatable. I personally think he misses his old self very much(which basically consisted with first of all Rin, the Hokage dream and his team) and wants to adapt his old life in the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Someone will probably make him "see the light" and bring the old Obito back too.

 

And isn't the point with Naruto surpassing the others that he can withstand the pain? When Jiraiya died, Naruto stood up to the darkness that tried to cloud his judgement. Lets say Sakura dies ~~ He will surpass the others not by letting go and moving on in favour for another, but by neglecting evil no matter what.

 

Btw, can you link the picture? I haven't seen it before and maybe I should reply with this post to get some action.

Edited by sushi., 08 July 2013 - 12:30 AM.

[六道仙人]

Hey guys I was having a conversation with the author of a Naruto/Obito parallel pic on DA recently and I was asking him few explanation about the meaning of the comparison when someone else decided to butt in and brought up, maybe, one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard since I joined this fandom.

This person said that since we always bring up the fact that the 'new generation will surpass the old one", Naruto will give up his dream to be with Sakura and let her go, unlike Obito who became obsessed with his unrequited love for Rin and became evil.( of course all of this to favor Hinata's feelings.)

Now, aside from the fact that that statement has lots of flaws and didn't really get the reasons Obito turned out that way, I was wondering your opinion about this.

I'm starting to think that most of the people out there don't read the same manga I do.

 

Well, sadly that wasn't the first person who have said a such thing from what I heard around there... Cleary he's reading another manga compared to the one that all of us are reading...

 

Someone thinks that Obito is got obsessed with his love for Rin. I say that isn't so. Obito got obsessed because her beloved Rin was got killed by the boy beloved by herself.

 

If we read beyond the words of the manga, we learn to understand that Kishi always put the same and IDENTICAL theme: the determination. Minato saying to Obito to don't give up about pursuing his dreams is the topic of the whole story. Because also the main character of the story, Naruto, has the same determination: Don't give up because that's his NINDO. Obito, on the verge of his death, had some regrets like that he was dying exactly when his bond with Kakashi was getting positive and he wasn't still able to confess his love to Rin. But, miraculously, he survived. Did you see how he wanted desperately to go back to Rin and Kakashi? Because he want to have some changes again in order to do these things that were his regretes once: Having a better bond with Kakashi and having a change of confessing his love to Rin. And of course, became Hokage someday. But by seeing his friend Kakashi killing his beloved Rin, even by brokening his promise to Obito, changed him totally, isn't? He felt like that all those "Don't give up", "I'll become Hokage someday!!", "Someday Rin will fall in love with me!!" just went to hell. The real purpose of all this that Kishimoto''s telling us is the fact that the main character cannot give up because otherwise it would be like he's going out of the canon.

 

Obito is like a failed Naruto. The story is about Naruto who's pursuing his dreams and surely Kishimoto isn't teaching us that Naruto must give up and going on, unlike Obito. That's because Obito don't recognise this world anymore, a world where even his best pale can broke promises and kill also the girl that he loves.

 

Naruto will manage to do what Obito (and other paralles like Jiraiya) failed. And surely he won't do this by simply giving up and going on because that's would absoutely be out of canon in this manga. Even Jiraiya, on the verge of death, said that he'll write a new chapter of his story from now: "The story of Uzumaki Naruto" indeed.

 

hopefully i made clearly about my thought...I was hurry ^^

Edited by 六道仙人, 08 July 2013 - 12:42 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Perhaps if there was more to 615, people wouldn't argue this way because somehow, I feel like many people would start to think Rin parallel matters in certain degree. Now, due to many events, people don't want to acknowledge or make a wrong twist to it. The worst one is that the moral is if you don't have "Hinata" you won't make it to your future. I'm not trying to bash people, but I want to share how view can change when one direction is taken.

Say 615 was significant to the point Hinata took over Sakura and be in the center with Team 7. Rin aspect from this forum would be ignored or make a twist out of it. As for me, I will remain the same. Will I be upset? Yes, because Hinata is Rin and pretty much say NH is confirmed. My point is that there's no direction that will please everyone.

As for Naruto's goal being Sakura's love, look I know they're not trophy, that's fine and I agree. But stop trying to make it something not important. At this point, it's as important as it can get and Japan don't mess with love within protagonist. Honestly, I don't recall any story that the dream of love from very beginning is changed. I can understand crush like story in progress, but usually the protagonist leaves it (due to chemistry, which usually a tsundere is required to make it work, not joking). Again, Naruto/Sakura are going great and the only way to make it not work is showing the dark side from one of them. Like Sakura is pushy in a non-comical way, Naruto feels not going well with her, etc. though some are required to be in relationship. Anyway, since this is Shounen, it's sealed that his love is unbreakable. Three words.

Deal with it.

[LadyGT]

^ I completely agree with you guys, great replies! I share your same opinions!

I'm currently doing a medical check so I can't really give my opinion yet but I'll leave you the link if the pic.

The reason I commented on this deviation it's because this pic was in the NARUSAKU tag

http://bk00.devianta...Loved-382705882

[Dalton.T.R]

Wow, it's been a while since I've looked into Naruto, but I see the NH fanbase hasn't changed much. I just went to a site that had NH fans saying 'Naruto was confused on his feelings.' Yeah right! He's loved Sakura this far into the manga, so why would he stop now? Use some common sense from time to time, people!

 

By now, the only way I can see NH or SS happening is if Kishi just gives into the fanbase. Something no writer should ever do.

 

Not trying to bash in the post, sorry if it looked like I was. But I didn't know how else to write that.

 

On another hand. It's been a while since I've been here. How's everyone doing? (No one probably has a clue who I am lol)

[TouKen4Life3g]

^ I completely agree with you guys, great replies! I share your same opinions!

I'm currently doing a medical check so I can't really give my opinion yet but I'll leave you the link if the pic.

The reason I commented on this deviation it's because this pic was in the NARUSAKU tag

http://bk00.devianta...Loved-382705882

I like what you said as well. Nicely said.

@Dalton: I believe all of us are doing great, thanks to Minato. We could not be any happier. Well, we can, coming soon. ;)

[Dalton.T.R]

^ Good, so other than chapter 631, has there been any other NS moments?

[Inferno180]

Hey guys I was having a conversation with the author of a Naruto/Obito parallel pic on DA recently and I was asking him few explanation about the meaning of the comparison when someone else decided to butt in and brought up, maybe, one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard since I joined this fandom.

This person said that since we always bring up the fact that the 'new generation will surpass the old one", Naruto will give up his dream to be with Sakura and let her go, unlike Obito who became obsessed with his unrequited love for Rin and became evil.( of course all of this to favor Hinata's feelings.)

Now, aside from the fact that that statement has lots of flaws and didn't really get the reasons Obito turned out that way, I was wondering your opinion about this.

I'm starting to think that most of the people out there don't read the same manga I do.

 

Well LadyGT, the argument is flawed for one reason, we have seen the failures and shortcomings of the past with those before Naruto's generation. One of the reoccurring themes within Naruto is just plain how we have seen not only those like the Sannin and Team Minato suffer shortcomings, but even those like Chiyo, Gaara's father, Ohnoki, even Hashirama, Madara, Danzo, and Hiruzen. All had intentions of some goal in their times but failed in a sense and had to face conseuqnces in the future. Its only because of the current generation, there has been a combination of success and the faith of those from the older generations going into the new one. Kinda like how Chiyo sacrificed herself to have faith in the future for her village by reviving Gaara, same with Gaara forgiving his father for the past efforts on his life, Ohnoki as well for always wanting to unite the villages as he said but he always found it in the wrong way now seeing how others like Naruto and Gaara were friends, brings that dream he had a closer reality unlike the conquest he thought of.

 

The whole ordeal of Naruto giving up also just completely shatters the logic of not only his character, it shatters the very philosophy NH is based upon, Hinata loves Naruto because of his will, the will to never give up. Hinata idolizes Naruto, this is true, this is why she follows him. For Naruto to give up means he breaks his nindo, him giving up would shatter Hinata's faith in him, she follows him if he gives up, she gives up. 615 was the closest it came but Naruto did always have the choice in that moment to give in and accept defeat, it was not only Hinata but Kurama that pulled him back too. Mainly it was the shock of losing a friend, something he had not yet experienced unlike Jiraya which felt like him losing a family member. But it remains, Naruto giving up on Sakura, some would take it in effect as an extreme of breaking the cycle. One common theme we see with Naruto is him and those who follow him will break the cycle of conflict that has plauged the ninja world for generations, especially ending the ancient feud of the senju and uchiha, basically bringing the sage of the 6 paths ideal of peace a reality at last, but some take this extreme stance of him rather then breaking the cycle of love his predecessors (save Minato) didn't find, they expect him to deviate or just offshoot his feelings for Sakura entirely and just insert Hinata. In other words, NS happening results in breaking a repeated cycle and finding a good ending to a repeated situation at last, NH would result in a deviation or offpath entirely unrelated to the past events mentioned before. However, the only real effort related to the hyuga that would change is the relation of the main and side branch, and that is something we could expect from Hinata alone, Naruto as said does not need to do everything, Gaara himself helped make changes for his own village and served as a change to a once bleak past. The same thing of some people still expecting NH to occur because Naruto said he would change the hyuga, well its been a long time and not a real importance of detail has been put forward on that as kishi could have done, in fact its enough just from Neji's death and just letting Hinata complete the 64 palms at this point for her to get the clan head position like Choji was given for the akamichi clan, but for Hinata at this point with her growth (and hopefully confidence in herself), along with her father, and neji's sacrifice, that alone would be enough of a closing for Hinata's individual character and to make a better relation and future for the clan. Simply this all refers back to screentime, Hinata and the Hyuga as a whole have been limited, limited screentime = less importance, which means easier and shorter ending.

[sushi.]

^ Good, so other than chapter 631, has there been any other NS moments?

No, and I think we'll have to wait for a while. But who knows, I mean I did not see 631 coming! XD

 

Sakura has to reach a conclusion first, because her feelings for Sasuke is clouded right now.

 

We should just sit back and relax..I'm sure we'll get more NS moments when the time comes.

[TouKen4Life3g]

^ Good, so other than chapter 631, has there been any other NS moments?

Not yet though it seems like Kishi is ending SS sooner than we thought and the buildup for NS moment could be significantly huge, if done right. So prepare yourself.

[Tsubaki]

This is the new argument or what?? because really 

 

>>

 

ps: I hope this isn't against the rules.. I just bring it to be discussed

[arian_rad]

This is the new argument or what?? because really 
 

>>

 
ps: I hope this isn't against the rules.. I just bring it to be discussed

Sad part is the only interaction kiba and naruto have ever had has been during the chunnin exams. I bet you minato has talked to naruto personally more than kiba ever has and sai... Well he is their teammate. He knows naruto better than anyone compared to kiba who has been around naruto for 10 years apparently but never talks to him. Lol

[Inferno180]

This is the new argument or what?? because really 

 

>>

 

ps: I hope this isn't against the rules.. I just bring it to be discussed

 

  no just no...

 

When exactly did Kiba become a central character or rather when was Kiba somehow present around Naruto more during the screentime? Heck Kiba hated Naruto at first and made fun of him so did he even know how Hinata thought of Naruto before team 8 formed? I doubt it. Again acting on the thought Naruto suddenly fell in love with HInata, I still digress, where is the moment in the manga where this occurs? Only time kiba had central screentime where he made a difference was in the sasuke retrieval arc and itachi pursuit only to help hunt down sasuke but even then, he has been even less important than Hinata. There are too many things to say whats wrong with this argument, but the main point is, where is Kiba's entire flashback or speech of attributing feelings like Sai and Minato have with Naruto and Obito towards their loved interests? Sorry just no, even with Hinata already having confessed her feelings, why would Kiba even need one? Are arguments against NS really becoming this weak? 631 only gave NS the notion it could become canon due to Kushina's words (and how most of that stuff she told Naruto to do came or will come true) and in this case Sakura is again that girl like Kushina, but this was a simple parallel, what will happen if Sakura turns away from Sasuke then or smiles and turns towards Naruto? I shutter to think about it.

Edited by Inferno180, 08 July 2013 - 02:09 AM.

[sushi.]

This is the new argument or what?? because really 

 

>>

 

ps: I hope this isn't against the rules.. I just bring it to be discussed

Adress the argument, not the fandom. I think that's the rule.

 

Anyways..Kiba's comment wasn't directly a love declaration.

 

Sai said even he could see Naruto really loved Sakura. Minato asked if they were a couple and even went on and completed the Kushina advice to a full circle. Kiba basically said Naruto wants to look tough in front of Hinata.

 

..and gets ignored. Let's compare the reactions from Naruto. He did not respond to Kiba. The "Yeah" was said before, because you read a manga left to right. Naruto didn't respond, he didn't even react!

 

It's clear that Naruto loves Sakura by the time Sai asks him. First he is shocked, as if thinking "kitten, he knows! This was my top secret doh !". His answer was that he was so serious about his feelings he couldn't confess until fullfilling the promise. His response to Minato gave me a kind of "Well, dad..It's complicated" feeling. There is no joke here. His expression was serious, his feelings are serious.

 

And how much has Kiba spent time with Naruto? They skipped class together in the academy days and that's about it. During the 5 months, Sai went on missions with Naruto and Sakura and created a bond with them.

Edited by sushi., 08 July 2013 - 02:09 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

This is the new argument or what?? because really 
 

>>

 
ps: I hope this isn't against the rules.. I just bring it to be discussed

Not the worst argument but I believe everyone in here already addressed it. I got nothing to add. Honestly, I don't want to post it here since I respect the rules, but all I can think is that clip when something happens.

[Gravenimage]

This is the new argument or what?? because really 

 

>>

 

ps: I hope this isn't against the rules.. I just bring it to be discussed

 

[megi]

Like all fandoms, there are divisions in the japanese fandom. What I am about to post are from conversations I had with fellow Japanese fans around Sakura's Confession, who do not identify as NaruSaku fans. Actually, one of them is a NaruHina fan. I am posting here because there are some good debate topics. I also added things I found on Japanese blogs.

 

Sakura's Confession Conversation

• point in the story where both Sakura and Naruto do not fully understand each other's feelings. On one side, Sakura believes she is the reason (the promise) of Naruto's suffering over Sasuke. At this point she did not think that Naruto had other reasons besides from her promise and this is widely agreed that Sakura had a misunderstanding of Naruto's feelings. For Naruto, he knows that Sakura is withholding something and is lying, but he does not understand why. He sees the lie because he can see into people's hearts.
• everyone agrees Sakura was indeed lying. indication is that she could not look at Naruto in the eye and her eyes went to the left, which means she is lying (eye aversion ->lying. to me, I don't really believe in the whole left/right eye movement).
• someone brought up that it's possible that she misunderstood him on purpose so that Naruto can hate her.
• a stark contrast of Sakura's hugs to Naruto (first after the Pein arc)

The Hug Part

• Atmosphere important
• After the Pein War hug, the hug is considered the "warm" hug because of the warm atmosphere (end of the war, cheering, etc)
• Confession hug, it is snowing and the hug is considered the "cold" hug. Sakura hugs Naruto so that she does not have to look into his eyes. Knowing she is going to do something unforgivable.
• white snow -> Sakura's "white" lie
• Sakura has to realize her "warmth" comes from Naruto.

What was Sakura lying about/true feelings?

• this part is is pretty tricky. she is lying because she is trying to mislead Naruto from what she is about to do (take down Sasuke) but is she lying about her feelings for Naruto? It is not so easy for anyone to say yes or no. She says them to relieve Naruto from his suffering, is that enough to show that she is affected my Naruto? Sakura is beginning to realize romantic feelings for Naruto.
• she is saying things she subconsciously knows.
• Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Mostly no.

A Scrutiny on Kiba's Appearance (469) O_O??

• This part actually really surprised me because I never even thought of it, but it was brought up like 4-5 times. Kiba seems to understand the feelings in the situation? 

[Dalton.T.R]

This is the new argument or what?? because really 

 

>>

 

ps: I hope this isn't against the rules.. I just bring it to be discussed

LOL! That's rich! Knowing someone for ten years and seeing each other from time to time is different from hanging out with someone day after day. 

[bthug]

 

Like all fandoms, there are divisions in the japanese fandom. What I am about to post are from conversations I had with fellow Japanese fans around Sakura's Confession, who do not identify as NaruSaku fans. Actually, one of them is a NaruHina fan. I am posting here because there are some good debate topics. I also added things I found on Japanese blogs.

 

Sakura's Confession Conversation

• point in the story where both Sakura and Naruto do not fully understand each other's feelings. On one side, Sakura believes she is the reason (the promise) of Naruto's suffering over Sasuke. At this point she did not think that Naruto had other reasons besides from her promise and this is widely agreed that Sakura had a misunderstanding of Naruto's feelings. For Naruto, he knows that Sakura is withholding something and is lying, but he does not understand why. He sees the lie because he can see into people's hearts.
• everyone agrees Sakura was indeed lying. indication is that she could not look at Naruto in the eye and her eyes went to the left, which means she is lying (eye aversion ->lying. to me, I don't really believe in the whole left/right eye movement).
• someone brought up that it's possible that she misunderstood him on purpose so that Naruto can hate her.
• a stark contrast of Sakura's hugs to Naruto (first after the Pein arc)

The Hug Part

• Atmosphere important
• After the Pein War hug, the hug is considered the "warm" hug because of the warm atmosphere (end of the war, cheering, etc)
• Confession hug, it is snowing and the hug is considered the "cold" hug. Sakura hugs Naruto so that she does not have to look into his eyes. Knowing she is going to do something unforgivable.
• white snow -> Sakura's "white" lie
• Sakura has to realize her "warmth" comes from Naruto.

What was Sakura lying about/true feelings?

• this part is is pretty tricky. she is lying because she is trying to mislead Naruto from what she is about to do (take down Sasuke) but is she lying about her feelings for Naruto? It is not so easy for anyone to say yes or no. She says them to relieve Naruto from his suffering, is that enough to show that she is affected my Naruto? Sakura is beginning to realize romantic feelings for Naruto.
• she is saying things she subconsciously knows.
• Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Mostly no.

A Scrutiny on Kiba's Appearance (469) O_O??

• This part actually really surprised me because I never even thought of it, but it was brought up like 4-5 times. Kiba seems to understand the feelings in the situation? 

 

This is Gold! Especially the hug part.

 

To the kiba a point, this "new kid" starting hanging out with my friends and I about a yr ago, he knows me better then the tools i went to school with for the past 10yrs.

 

Also going back to my how could u like MK and dislike NS in favor of NH...MK and and NS are practically identical. Started similar (based on similar situations), similar personalities, heck they even look the same, so when someone puts down NS, but at the same time states how much they love MK it just doesnt make any sense to me. Honestly none of NH or SS makes sense to me and at this point it just seems like their grasping for straws. 

[redragon88]

 

Like all fandoms, there are divisions in the japanese fandom. What I am about to post are from conversations I had with fellow Japanese fans around Sakura's Confession, who do not identify as NaruSaku fans. Actually, one of them is a NaruHina fan. I am posting here because there are some good debate topics. I also added things I found on Japanese blogs.

 

Sakura's Confession Conversation

• point in the story where both Sakura and Naruto do not fully understand each other's feelings. On one side, Sakura believes she is the reason (the promise) of Naruto's suffering over Sasuke. At this point she did not think that Naruto had other reasons besides from her promise and this is widely agreed that Sakura had a misunderstanding of Naruto's feelings. For Naruto, he knows that Sakura is withholding something and is lying, but he does not understand why. He sees the lie because he can see into people's hearts.
• everyone agrees Sakura was indeed lying. indication is that she could not look at Naruto in the eye and her eyes went to the left, which means she is lying (eye aversion ->lying. to me, I don't really believe in the whole left/right eye movement).
• someone brought up that it's possible that she misunderstood him on purpose so that Naruto can hate her.
• a stark contrast of Sakura's hugs to Naruto (first after the Pein arc)

The Hug Part

• Atmosphere important
• After the Pein War hug, the hug is considered the "warm" hug because of the warm atmosphere (end of the war, cheering, etc)
• Confession hug, it is snowing and the hug is considered the "cold" hug. Sakura hugs Naruto so that she does not have to look into his eyes. Knowing she is going to do something unforgivable.
• white snow -> Sakura's "white" lie
• Sakura has to realize her "warmth" comes from Naruto.

What was Sakura lying about/true feelings?

• this part is is pretty tricky. she is lying because she is trying to mislead Naruto from what she is about to do (take down Sasuke) but is she lying about her feelings for Naruto? It is not so easy for anyone to say yes or no. She says them to relieve Naruto from his suffering, is that enough to show that she is affected my Naruto? Sakura is beginning to realize romantic feelings for Naruto.
• she is saying things she subconsciously knows.
• Is Sakura still in love with Sasuke? Mostly no.

A Scrutiny on Kiba's Appearance (469) O_O??

• This part actually really surprised me because I never even thought of it, but it was brought up like 4-5 times. Kiba seems to understand the feelings in the situation? 

 

 

This was a great and very thorough response. Thank you for letting us know about those perspectives.

 

I especially like the part that says Sakura has to realize her "warmth" comes from Naruto. That would make for a great moment.

 

The contrast of her warm hug (Pain arc) and her cold hug (Summit arc) is not something I had thought about before. It's very interesting.

 

So regardless of how Sakura currently feels about Naruto, most there think that she's indeed slowly breaking away her feelings for Sasuke. Nice to know they see it that way.