4976 replies to this topic

[Nar123]

Well, Naruto was not that bad, it was still enjoyable at least for me at that time before the pairings became canon. There were some minor problems like the SNS final battle, Kaguya, etc.., but it certainly did not make the series worse.  Everything would have turned out okay if only Naruto ended up with Sakura or not getting married with anyone at all.

 

ok, that's your mindset I guess, but it's clear as a day that Kishi lost his edge ever since the Pein arc ( some may argue that it happened even before it). Objectively speaking, damages to Sakura's character appeared back then in the Kage summit arc, the war arc was a mess, the fights weren't half as interesting as they were before, themes that were common to the story were lost, random power ups, random and bad final villain, the last fight was a mess. 

 

Trust me when I say, that the pairings were just the cherry on the horrible cake that was the Naruto series in the later part 2 arcs...of course even if you liked for some reason or another you can recognize how bad it was, objectively speaking

Edited by Nar123, 21 August 2015 - 01:44 AM.

[rocci]

 
Ugh...I don't think comparing Naruto power ups to DBZ power ups work at all
 
I mean, I understand comparing the super saiyan mode with the kyuubi mode, but kaio-ken with sage mode? I don't think they are that much alike, specially because the kaioken is awfully limited and damges the user body while the sage mode's limit is not that much of a bother ( just summon a clone and destroy it to recharge natural chakra ) 
 
I also don't understand why naruto couldn't learn a jutsu with handseal, it would help to make his fights more interesting than clone spam + rasengan spam, I think he should've learned a couple of wind jutsus in the timeskip and then Kishi could upgrade then further in the storyline with stronger versions, etc 
 
I also agree Naruto could've ans should've learned a couple of fuuinjutsu , it would tie in with his Uzumaki heritage and some of these jutsus could be his ultimate trump card if Kishi had some kind of creativity sense

Sorry, I'm not specific. What I mean with sm equal with kaioken is that is the first mode that the protagonist master. It prayically make you dbz (it give you speed, streght, durability, and db sensing) minus flight.

Kaioken true equivalent is gate.

Personally, I don't have any problem with kishi doesn't give naruto elemental ninjutsu. I think for kishi, rasengan is enough.

Edited by rocci, 21 August 2015 - 01:35 AM.

[Nar123]

@nar123
What's "that jutsu"? Is that Kyubi mode, I don't think it's because mode=/=jutsu.
Is kishi drop that jutsu like most of his drop plot point? Possible.

Yes, I agree that naruto should know it from the time he train with jiraiya in two years. I agree with the rest.
 

 

No, you got me wrong, forget whatever meaning "that jutsu" had in the original storyline, what I was saying is that the Sage mode could be called "that jutsu" or "that mode" in flashbacks to the 2 years timeskip, so Kishi could've at least shown a degree of foreshadowing to future events, while at the same time keeping a secret to what this jutsu or power up was, just to reveal it during the Jiraya fight like he originally wanted.

 

This would also make the process of naruto mastering the sage mode much more smoother since he would've already learned the basics with Jiraya during the training trip  

Edited by Nar123, 21 August 2015 - 01:37 AM.

[rocci]

 
No, you got me wrong, forget whatever meaning "that jutsu" had in the original storyline, what I was saying is that the Sage mode could be called "that jutsu" or "that mode" in flashbacks to the 2 years timeskip, so Kishi could've at least shown a degree of foreshadowing to future events, while at the same time keeping a secret to what this jutsu or power up was, just to reveal it during the Jiraya fight like he originally wanted.
 
This would also make the process of naruto mastering the sage mode much more smoother since he would've already learned the basics with Jiraya during the training trip  

So kishi truly drop "that jutsu"?
What a waste of foreshadowing.

[Nar123]

Sorry, I'm not specific. What I mean with sm equal with kaioken is that is the first mode that the protagonist master. It prayically make you dbz (it give you speed, streght, durability, and db sensing) minus flight.

Kaioken true equivalent is gate.

 

 

Ok, I got the reference with Kaio-ken...

 

 

Personally, I don't have any problem with kishi doesn't give naruto elemental ninjutsu. I think for kishi, rasengan is enough.

 

 

 

That's the thing, the rasengan made naruto fights so much limited and boring, it was cool at first when it was a finishing move but then Naruto's fights basically turned into clone spam + rasengan spam, there would be nothing wrong with him having at least one or two wind jutsus in his arsenal that he could upgrade with time. 

 

 

 

So kishi truly drop "that jutsu"?
What a waste of foreshadowing.

 

 

This was one of TK4L biggest pet peeves with the series...I think he was still trying to know what "that jutsu" means  until some time ago

Edited by Nar123, 21 August 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I was.

I showcased the evidence that it was completely dropped in the end. It was supposed to be a jutsu that requires Kuruma's chakra, but we never found out. So it was completely forgotten. The main panel is the part where Naruto signed the contract.

[rocci]

@nostradamus
I think he's a bad writer. I'm an ex kishi apologies, there's time that I can't defend his writing, because there's so much holes or simply doesn't make any sense.

@nar123
Rasengan is naruto kamehameha. I think that's the reason why kishi doesn't give naruto that much variety, For good or for bad.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I mean it was neat to have remix for Rasengan, but Kishi took a shortcut and just made them bigger. If only he did something the PS2 game did like how Jiraiya uses fire and make it into Katon Rasengan where it erupts into giant flame.

[rocci]

I was.

I showcased the evidence that it was completely dropped in the end. It was supposed to be a jutsu that requires Kuruma's chakra, but we never found out. So it was completely forgotten. The main panel is the part where Naruto signed the contract.

I think that jutsu is kamehameha.

Let see if kishi could write something decent without resorting on homoerotic, pairing tease, and/or vagueness.
Oh I forget, kishi hype.

Edited by rocci, 21 August 2015 - 01:55 AM.

[Legend054]

 

ok, that's your mindset I guess, but it's clear as a day that Kishi lost his edge ever since the Pein arc ( some may argue that it happened even before it). Objectively speaking, damages to Sakura's character appeared back then in the Kage summit arc, the war arc was a mess, the fights weren't half as interesting as they were before, themes that were common to the story were lost, random power ups, random and bad final villain, the last fight was a mess. 

 

Trust me when I say, that the pairings were just the cherry on the horrible cake that was the Naruto series in the later part 2 arcs...of course even if you liked for some reason or another you can recognize how bad it was, objectively speaking

I agree that they've gone overboard on some things, but I didn't mind it at all because Naruto was still the character we knew. Those things you mentioned were minor details that did not make the series worse at all. I do agree that it gone downhill after Pain arc, but since the manga is shonen it is expected that we'll some action happening, not LOVE STORY

[RedFaction]

I agree that they've gone overboard on some things, but I didn't mind it at all because Naruto was still the character we knew. Those things you mentioned were minor details that did not make the series worse at all. I do agree that it gone downhill after Pain arc, but since the manga is shonen it is expected that we'll some action happening, not LOVE STORY

Well, Naruto wasn't really still the same character he was in the beginning. The whole child of prophecy and Ashura reincarnation crap in particular did a lot of damage.

 

There's just no excuse for that when the core principle of Naruto's character was hard work and everlasting determination and now he's all about destiny and being a god of his world.

Edited by RedFaction, 21 August 2015 - 02:03 AM.

[rocci]

I agree that they've gone overboard on some things, but I didn't mind it at all because Naruto was still the character we knew. Those things you mentioned were minor details that did not make the series worse at all. I do agree that it gone downhill after Pain arc, but since the manga is shonen it is expected that we'll some action happening, not LOVE STORY

No, naruto is a love story between naruto and sasuke.

I think the problem with naruto is the lack of fight and the decrease of battle quality. Especially if we compare it with part 1.
This is not including bad characters interaction and many more.

But I can understand why naruto is enjoyable.

Edited by rocci, 21 August 2015 - 02:05 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I think that jutsu is kamehameha.

Let see if kishi could write something decent without resorting on homoerotic, pairing tease, and/or vagueness.
Oh I forget, kishi hype.

Kishi left too much directions for fans to mess with that it gotten serious. Others would do that but still goes the way the author intended to, hence harem yet still has one direction. Kishi went back and forth and kept making others seem like love when it's not. It officially became that in The Last, despite it truly didn't need that at all.

[Nostradamus]

@nostradamus
I think he's a bad writer. I'm an ex kishi apologies, there's time that I can't defend his writing, because there's so much holes or simply doesn't make any sense.

Yeah well that's just like your opinion man.

 

Truth is maybe he is and maybe he isn't. We don't really know. That's my point.

Perhaps this applies to him:

"You're a joke. There wouldn't be a single readable sentence in your books if it wasn't for your editor. ... you're a lousy writer. Cheap thrills and pretentious kitten are all you're good for." or perhaps it doesn't.

Let's see how many of you know where this is from without searching it.

Edited by Nostradamus, 21 August 2015 - 02:08 AM.

[Nar123]

@nar123
Rasengan is naruto kamehameha. I think that's the reason why kishi doesn't give naruto that much variety, For good or for bad.

 

Nah, I don't think so. 

Dragon Ball's 'ki' works in a different way than naruto's chakra even though they are the same thing "life essence".

 

Also DB's battle were much more physical than Naruto's reliance on spell like jutsus and etc... so due to the fast paced dynamic we didn't had much variety to the battles other than each character different fighting performances and style, in DB most of the special moves were just special ways to let the ki out in ki blasts...hell even villains like Buu and Cell had the kamehameha in their arsenal

( and even them Goku didn't had only the kamehameha, he also had the spirit bomb, the dragon god fist, instant transmission) 

 

I think that for the world of Naruto, Naruto's techniques were awfully limited and boring after a time ( although powerful) , the Naruto world had a lot more variety than DB's one so it should be a given that the MC shouldn't have to rely only on two techs alone and the lame combinations between them

 

 

 

Well, Naruto wasn't really still the same character he was in the beginning. The whole child of prophecy and Ashura reincarnation crap in particular did a lot of damage.

 

There's just no excuse for that when the core principle of Naruto's character was hard work and everlasting determination and now he's all about destiny and being a god of his world.

 

While drinking alcohol, eating instant ramen, fooling around on his new macbook and ignoring his family lol

Edited by Nar123, 21 August 2015 - 02:15 AM.

[Nar123]

But I can understand why naruto is enjoyable.

 

I honestly can't

The only way I see some fan could still be interested in Naruto is just for the revelations regarding the pairings in the end or to have some kind fo closure to a childhood series 

 

I dropped in the beginning of the war arc and came back in the ending mostly for the second reason ( I would be lying to say I wasn't interested in if NS would get together or not) 

 

Though I guess there is a third reason, some people just have low standarts...

 

 

 

Kishi left too much directions for fans to mess with that it gotten serious. Others would do that but still goes the way the author intended to, hence harem yet still has one direction. Kishi went back and forth and kept making others seem like love when it's not. It officially became that in The Last, despite it truly didn't need that at all.

 

Yeah, regarding the pairings, after Pein arc he messed too much with them. 

I remember a time where NH had a moment and then NS would get one, then SS would get something that was negative but the crazy fans would consider a moment...

That's how kishi managed to string pairing fandoms along, though with the exception of NS that already had a set up since early shipuuden, Kishi's pairing teases ultimately ruined SS an didn't helped NH develop

 

Then we had the last that just made NH worse...

Edited by Nar123, 21 August 2015 - 02:22 AM.

[Legend054]

Well, Naruto wasn't really still the same character he was in the beginning. The whole child of prophecy and Ashura reincarnation crap in particular did a lot of damage.

 

There's just no excuse for that when the core principle of Naruto's character was hard work and everlasting determination and now he's all about destiny and being a god of his world.

I didn't see it that way. I still think that the main problem here are NH & SS. I didn't care what happened before the pairings became canon, as long as the manga ended properly. It all went down the drain when SS and NH became canon, otherwise a lot of people wouldn't be complaining about it. Yes Naruto had some flaws just like any other anime there is, but at the end of day what really ruined this anime was NH.

Edited by Legend054, 21 August 2015 - 02:23 AM.

[RedFaction]

While drinking alcohol, eating instant ramen, fooling around on his new macbook and ignoring his family lol

It only reaffirms how much of a scumbag Naruto is now when he didn't listen to a single word his mother said.

[TouKen4Life3g]

The whole reincarnation was a jump the shark.

[Nar123]

The whole reincarnation was a jump the shark.

 

The thing is...I would be quite okay with it if it was only implied and not outright said out loud by a manifestation of Hagoromo... who then proceeded to give Naruto and Sasuke asspulled powers...