4869 replies to this topic

[ciardha]

And I quote. Frankly your ability is below Naruto --Click here to view--

And that wasn't the only time he said something like that to her. The apple incident wasn't as disturbing as an earlier incident here:


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/66/13/

[RyrineaHaruno]

Pink I gave you a great website to give to that person.
Helpguide


I think that person doesn't know what abuse is, and needs too learn more about a abusive relationship is in the first place.
Ciardha, I agree that disturbed me too. It also disturbed me when he did the apple thing as well.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 25 January 2010 - 12:13 AM.

[ciardha]

Pink I gave you a great website to give to that person.
Helpguide


I think that person doesn't know what abuse is, and needs too learn more about what is an abusive relationship in the first place.

Ciardha, I agree that disturbed me too. It also disturbed me when he did the apple thing as well.

The apple thing was adding more evidence to what we saw earlier. People forget that the curse seal isn't like the kyuubi, the curse seal just brings to the fore with more intensity what was already there.

And yeah I had the same reaction you did to those words by that sasusaku shipper. This goes beyond a mere fictional ship debate, it's very worrying to me too. This is what leads girls to get into relationships like Rhianna's with Chris Brown. Scary true statistics- 1 out 4 women who are treated in hospital emergency rooms are there as a result of domestic violence. This isn't a new phenomenon, it was true before the word domestic violence was coined and is true now. Don't fall into the trap of believing "he'll change" "he won't be like that with me" etc...

Edited by ciardha, 24 January 2010 - 11:27 PM.

[Derock]

I totally forgot about that scene...

That basically said that Sasuke truly is selfish, doesn't care for anyone who wants to help him and will kill anyone who stand in his way from getting what he wants, including Sakura.

[firegirl]

i really end up with stupid people to debate dont i

now the person said that sakura still loves sasuke because of her still pernousing him as KUN

she gave me this

Kun (君, in Kanji ?, くん in Hiragana) ("lad", "you") is used by persons of senior status in addressing or referring to those of junior status, or by anyone when addressing or referring to male children or male teenagers. It can also be used by females when addressing a male that they are emotionally attached to or have known for long.

[RyrineaHaruno]

i really end up with stupid people to debate dont i

now the person said that sakura still loves sasuke because of her still pernousing him as KUN

she gave me this

Kun is just a forum of respect. Chan, is the one that is meant for endearing, and used for lovers friends ectt. He/she obviously skipped that part of the suffixes.

The apple thing was adding more evidence to what we saw earlier. People forget that the curse seal isn't like the kyuubi, the curse seal just brings to the fore with more intensity what was already there.

And yeah I had the same reaction you did to those words by that sasusaku shipper. This goes beyond a mere fictional ship debate, it's very worrying to me too. This is what leads girls to get into relationships like Rhianna's with Chris Brown. Scary true statistics- 1 out 4 women who are treated in hospital emergency rooms are there as a result of domestic violence. This isn't a new phenomenon, it was true before the word domestic violence was coined and is true now. Don't fall into the trap of believing "he'll change" "he won't be like that with me" etc...

I agree it is very worrying to me too. I just think that people need to learn more about abusive relationships.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 25 January 2010 - 12:12 AM.

[firegirl]

Kun is just a forum of respect. Chan, is the one that is meant for endearing, and used for lovers friends ectt. He/she obviously skipped that part of the suffixes.





I agree it is very worrying to me too. I just think that people need to learn more about abusive relationships.

i dont think sakura respects sasuke

maybe she still has affection for him as much as before

or could be out of habbit

Edited by firegirl, 25 January 2010 - 12:22 AM.

[ciardha]

Kun is just a forum of respect. Chan, is the one that is meant for endearing, and used for lovers friends ectt. He/she obviously skipped that part of the suffixes.

Kun can also be mildly insulting in the same way chan can be used- implying a person is acting childish.

[RyrineaHaruno]

Kun can also be mildly insulting in the same way chan can be used- implying a person is acting childish.

Thanks for that little bit of information!

[firegirl]

sooo are u saying she might be insulting sasuke?

Edited by firegirl, 25 January 2010 - 12:43 AM.

[Gravenimage]

Kun can also be mildly insulting in the same way chan can be used- implying a person is acting childish.

You're right I wonder if that's why Kabuto calls Naruto "Naruto-kun" as a way to disrespect him.

Edited by Gravenimage, 25 January 2010 - 12:45 AM.

[ciardha]

You're right I wonder if that's why Kabuto calls Naruto "Naruto-kun" as a way to disrespect him.

In part 2, I'd say definitely, he used that term with Sasuke too, and he used about the highest honorific for Orochimaru- sama. In part 1 Naruto and Sasuke were of an age where "kun" wouldn't be insulting but in part 2 they are old enough it could be. It's all in the tone of the speaker.

As far as Sakura's use, I'd say just force of habit.

[Strangelove]

Sakura doesn't use honorifics with Naruto though.

Then again, as far as i know...Sakura considers herself at the same level as Naruto, she always expects him to do his best...as this was seen in some arcs...where she putted her trust in him, rather than be all worrisome, even if some fear would have lingered...this is true even in part 1. Naruto on the other hand, fears that if Sakura is put on a difficult situation she might get killed...

[catsi563]

force of habit more than anything not insulting.

Kun is used to denote a senior boy or boy of the same age. It does not have romantic konotations but it can be used by a girl in regards to a boy she views in a personal light.

whats more important is this

In Japan, suffixes are added on to names to indicate respect, for affection, etc. A lack of a suffix indicates that you are extremely close to the person you are refering to. This explains why Rei calls Usagi 'Usagi' (without the -chan), and why Minako and Usagi spazzed when they heard Haruka call Michiru 'Michiru.' (They were wondering if Haruka and Michiru's relationship was that close that they could call each other by their given names without suffixes.)

denote Sakura has never used a suffix with Naruto even long after it was established that she likes and respects and trusts Naruto.

The lack of a honorific suffix can show a great friendship or a very close relationship. It can also mean a lack of respect for someone. Rei sometimes refers to Usagi without the use of a honorific - Haruka and Michiru also do this for each other.

As noted by Sai in a very specific moment as he reads about relationships, the notion of growing closer to someone is best noted by dropping Suffixes entirely to remove distance.+

Also note that Sauske represents the other side of that leaf. He has never used a suffix wiith Naruto but it wasnt untill the Valley of the end that that lack was done with respect. before the valley it was done with disrepsect.

Edited by catsi563, 25 January 2010 - 03:13 AM.

[fireandice]

Hey all, I see this convo has turned to that on suffixes!

@catsi563

Yes, exactly, there are different nuances. A Western equivalent will be say, referring to a person with whom you are not close to as "Miss" or "Sir", whereas if it's someone senior to you, not calling them "Miss/Mrs/Mdm" for instance would be disrespectful. But similarly, with your friends, you don't call them "Mrs/Miss" anything, do you, LOL!

To me, Sakura's referring him as Sasuke-kun is more of a habit. The same with how she has never referred to Naruto with any suffix. I do find it interesting that Kishi wrote her that way .

@Strangelove One thing that always struck me between Sakura and Hinata was the extent of their faith in Naruto. Like when they were fighting Tobi/Madara, Hinata got worried when Naruto got thrown into the water (I mean it's not like he appeared to have gotten impaled or anything ) and went "Naruto!" It was Sakura who didn't even look back and told Hinata "Naruto's stronger than that, just focus on the enemy, Hinata!" Similarly, with the Pain invasion, Sakura cried out for Naruto to hurry back.

To me Hinata's jumping in front of Naruto, I thought it was stupid of her, but it was touching- BUT it showed a lack of faith in Naruto's abilities. That she would need to protect him, rather than helping him (e.g distract Pain, take out chakra rods etc etc.)

NaruHina, IMO, just doesn't work because unlike Sakura, Hinata just doesn't know Naruto as well, to be honest. From the very beginning of their interactions, she's always been viewing him through romantic lenses. She has this romanticized, more idealized perspective of Naruto that isn't the real, complete Naruto- the Naruto that snapped at Tsunade in the Hokage's office when found out Jiraiya was dead, she never saw what Naruto had to undergo in 4-tails state, his cursed destiny as a jinchuuriki when Gaara was kidnapped- all of which Sakura did.

Edited by fireandice, 25 January 2010 - 04:41 AM.

[Jenskott]

The majority of narusaku fans aren't vocal- when a pairing you like is assured canon, why bother.

That is a good point. Zutarans were louder than Kataangers, or so I have been told. And Peter/Mary Jane fans weren't so vocal or loud before <shudders> One More Day (I know because I am one).

And I also can tell I enjoyed the story way more intensely before I stumbled upon the fandom.

You see so many more sasusaku and naruhina fans being vocal online because their pairings can't and won't happen. Same for the yaoi ships which vastly outnumber in fans the het ships online (especially amongst the Japanese fans). The most popular ship of all is Iruka and Kakashi and they hadn't even interacted in one scene until the destruction of Konoha arc! Plus Kakashi and Iruka are definitely both het guys. Kakashi's an overt het perv (reading het porny novels in public, in front of preteens no less...) and Iruka is a secret one (the reaction to Naruto's sexy no jutsu)

Agreed. But you explain that to them.

Oh, well.

So that SasuSaku fan thinks Sasuke never called Sakura worthless or insulted her? And he thinks there is no proof of he has ever stooped down to that level? That is an impressive display of selective reading/blindness/forgetfullness, and you have quoted beautiful examples of it.

It remindes me of that fan who claimed Sasuke didn't know Orochimaru planned stealing his body and if he would have known he would have never left. After informing him/her of Sasuke DID know, that person admitted he didn't read the manga.

Does Sasuke know Naruto loves Sakura?

I am sure he is at least aware. I am not sure how much he cared about it, though (now he doesn't care at all, obviously).

And that wasn't the only time he said something like that to her. The apple incident wasn't as disturbing as an earlier incident here:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/66/13/

Definitely. That was very disturbing.

Sakura became very conscious of Sasuke's ugly and dark side in the Forest of the Death.

I never saw her squealing "Sasuke-kun! He is so cool!" afterwards.

now the person said that sakura still loves sasuke because of her still pernousing him as KUN

Why do they use the honorifics for debates when they are clearly unaware of how they work? I agree with the former comments: -Kun usually is a form of respect, but depending on the tone it can be used spitefully, and personally I think Sakura uses it out of habit.

On the other hand, Kishimoto went out of his way TWICE for pointing out Sakura not using any suffix when she talked to or about Naruto displayed she felt very close to him.

It remindes me of a Kimagure Orange Road movie. Kyosuke had always refered to Madoka using her family name. When he started refering to her using her name, it was a big deal.

[Gravenimage]

Hey all, I see this convo has turned to that on suffixes!

@catsi563

Yes, exactly, there are different nuances. A Western equivalent will be say, referring to a person with whom you are not close to as "Miss" or "Sir", whereas if it's someone senior to you, not calling them "Miss/Mrs/Mdm" for instance would be disrespectful. But similarly, with your friends, you don't call them "Mrs/Miss" anything, do you, LOL!

To me, Sakura's referring him as Sasuke-kun is more of a habit. The same with how she has never referred to Naruto with any suffix. I do find it interesting that Kishi wrote her that way .

@Strangelove One thing that always struck me between Sakura and Hinata was the extent of their faith in Naruto. Like when they were fighting Tobi/Madara, Hinata got worried when Naruto got thrown into the water (I mean it's not like he appeared to have gotten impaled or anything ) and went "Naruto!" It was Sakura who didn't even look back and told Hinata "Naruto's stronger than that, just focus on the enemy, Hinata!" Similarly, with the Pain invasion, Sakura cried out for Naruto to hurry back.

To me Hinata's jumping in front of Naruto, I thought it was stupid of her, but it was touching- BUT it showed a lack of faith in Naruto's abilities. That she would need to protect him, rather than helping him (e.g distract Pain, take out chakra rods etc etc.)

NaruHina, IMO, just doesn't work because unlike Sakura, Hinata just doesn't know Naruto as well, to be honest. From the very beginning of their interactions, she's always been viewing him through romantic lenses. She has this romanticized, more idealized perspective of Naruto that isn't the real, complete Naruto- the Naruto that snapped at Tsunade in the Hokage's office when found out Jiraiya was dead, she never saw what Naruto had to undergo in 4-tails state, his cursed destiny as a jinchuuriki when Gaara was kidnapped- all of which Sakura did.

That's very much true Hinata doesn't know Naruto as much as Sakura she doesn't even knowhow strong Naruto is. Hinata also doesn't know of Naruto's bond with team seven and Sasuke how strong is his bond another reason why she can't understand him like Sakura does. N/H is a couple that will only happen in a shoujo manga or something that will most likely happen in a fairy tale or Disney movie which is the reason why so many people in the West like the couple as well as S/S. The pairings are base on western culture romance. Most women will compare themselves to Sakura and Hinata chasing or trying to conquer the heart of their big time crush.

Most of them think the manga is like a high school soap opera or others think it's a Disney movie. Couples that have no development will get together without knowing nothing about them at all. I think the reason N/H is famous it's because S/S is famous. The existence of N/H was created because of S/S in order for Naruto to get together with Hinata Sakura has to get together with Sasuke so that N/S doesn't exist anymore. I consider this logic crazy.

Edited by Gravenimage, 25 January 2010 - 04:25 PM.

[Froot]

I know a few posts back I asked if Sasuke knows Naruto loves Sakura; Now I've got another question. Does Hinata know, and understand that Naruto loves Sakura?

Not too long ago, Sakura schooled Hinata. She told her to have more faith in Naruto - because, frankly, she underestimated him. Think back to the Neji/Naruto fight. Same thing happened. She worried over him and even begged silently for him to give up, when she knows it's his Nindo.

Even after Sakura's lesson, Hinata underestimated Naruto, going so far as to try and play hero for him. (Does she think she's more capable than him? That sounds a little haughtier than Sakura.)

With Sakura's lesson and the hug, we see two instances where Hinata is shown how much closer to Naruto Sakura is than she is. Do you think she's finally learned?