4869 replies to this topic

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Karin is not much of a new character

Not a tool, but a teammate. Nothing more.

I doubt Sasuke would be abusive. At the most, he would have a somewhat cold exterior.

SasuSaku --Click here to view--

Is unhealthy in all manner. Not because it gets in the way of NaruSaku, but its just really offputing. The idea of putting Sakura with someone she doesn't understand and whos crush was born out of fake images is disgusting =/

That is like what i am telling with the SS fan. Anyhow, it accused me being in denial.

Besides the fact that Sasuke is insane and violent, he is also very gullible. The moment someone suggests that his girlfriend/wife might like someone else, you know he would fly off the handle (without doing any research to see if it is accurate or not).

Sasuke would be emotionally abusive. His relationships fall into three categories, none of which would be healthy.
1) Neutral towards people who help him gain power. This applies to Kakashi, Team Hawk, and Orochimaru (up to their fight).
2) Condescending towards those he thinks of as weaker. Everyone in his peer group, basically. He would treat Sakura as an inferior, and continue to call her annoying. Anytime she would want help and a little support, Sasuke would be there to tell her that she is useless.
3) Anger/violence towards anyone who might rival him in power. This applies to Itachi and Naruto (part I before time skip).

I am a 100% agree.

Anyhow guys, I still got some past aguments went unresolved. The same SS fan, told me that "in the 469 chapter, her mind was set, that Sakura will express her love for Sasuke. Even for that, she never intends to be in love with anyone.
What do you guys think?

[Miss Soupy]

Well, SS fans argue that Karin is a tool. Nevertheless, in the end, she will end up with someone or will die.
SS being not a positive pairing, clearly portrays Sasuke is not being abusive and did not experienced any abuse at all. It is either Physical or Mental abuse. An SS fan once posted in the other forums her analysis of Sasuke abuse potential in the future in the situation, she will have a family, she stated that Sasuke is not abusive because he did not experience any of it besides Sasuke experienced Trauma.
For me, Abuse and Trauma are quite the same. its like the goals and the means. how can a person become an abuser? because of trauma?
I think because of the abuse also inflicted to his early life.
Either way, SS believed that Sasuke slapping the apples,knocking Sakura out after her confession is not a sign Sasuke being abusive. And what they call with that, "A sign of LOVE?"

I don't think Sasuke slapping the apples away is a clear signal that he would be even more abusive later. The cursed seal sort of drove him crazy.

However, I don't agree with any Sasuke pairings. For me, it's about double standards. Oh, Sasuke is a jerk to Karin but would be so nice to Sakura! Or the opposite, Sasuke is a jerk to Sakura but would be nice to Karin! Neither make sense to me, Sasuke just isn't someone who cares or needs romance. There is nothing Karin can do for him that Sakura can't, and nothing Sakura can't do for him that Karin can't.

Even if he was saved by Naruto, I don't think this would change. I wouldn't wish Sasuke with any female because of this. He doesn't think in terms of others, he thinks in terms of his own desires. He is extremely selfish. I don't think selfishness is something Naruto can make go away. Darkness, yes, but not selfishness.

[ciardha]

Even if he was saved by Naruto, I don't think this would change. I wouldn't wish Sasuke with any female because of this. He doesn't think in terms of others, he thinks in terms of his own desires. He is extremely selfish. I don't think selfishness is something Naruto can make go away. Darkness, yes, but not selfishness.

That's a good point, and the big part of the reason why I don't ship Sasuke and Karin- but I do agree with catsi that unlike with Sakura, Sasuke does seem to have some attraction to Karin, and Karin's attraction to Sasuke is more based on who he really is, not some fantasy ideal that was in no way like Sasuke. That's why Karin might be bothered by Sasuke getting darker but she's not frozen in fear and freaking out about it. But is it a good relationship for Karin? Unless he becomes less single minded and stops viewing the world in an extremely selfish fashion he's not going to be capable of having a positive relationship even with someone he does have some feelings for.

[socermania2]

I don't think Sasuke slapping the apples away is a clear signal that he would be even more abusive later. The cursed seal sort of drove him crazy.

However, I don't agree with any Sasuke pairings. For me, it's about double standards. Oh, Sasuke is a jerk to Karin but would be so nice to Sakura! Or the opposite, Sasuke is a jerk to Sakura but would be nice to Karin! Neither make sense to me, Sasuke just isn't someone who cares or needs romance. There is nothing Karin can do for him that Sakura can't, and nothing Sakura can't do for him that Karin can't.

Even if he was saved by Naruto, I don't think this would change. I wouldn't wish Sasuke with any female because of this. He doesn't think in terms of others, he thinks in terms of his own desires. He is extremely selfish. I don't think selfishness is something Naruto can make go away. Darkness, yes, but not selfishness.

The apple scene is blown WAY out of proportion. It was mean, yes. Selfish? Yes.

Abusive? At the most, he would give a cold exterior.

The main reason that I don't ship anyone with Sasuke even though I like him is because he has MAJOR character problems, that in turn hurt those who are closest to him.

I wouldn't wish Karin or Sakura on Sasuke.

@Ciardha
What attraction? Never seen it. No offense.

Edited by socermania2, 23 January 2010 - 05:48 PM.

[firegirl]

We aren't people who see only Part one Sakura. I like Part one Sakura. The

only person who really knows Sakura is Kishi. Sakura said so herself that

women are fickle so why shouldn't we take her words for it? If Sakura

believes that women are fickle she obviously believes that she is fickle and

from what's been seen she's right. So why would that qulify her as being a

good wife to Naruto when she doesn't even know if she loves him or not?



Maybe you don't know Sakura's character .

i just this agrument

people are putting her as a bad wife in a poll i created because she is FICKLE
what do u all think?

Edited by firegirl, 23 January 2010 - 07:04 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

The apple scene is blown WAY out of proportion. It was mean, yes. Selfish? Yes.

Abusive? At the most, he would give a cold exterior.

The main reason that I don't ship anyone with Sasuke even though I like him is because he has MAJOR character problems, that in turn hurt those who are closest to him.

I wouldn't wish Karin or Sakura on Sasuke.

@Ciardha
What attraction? Never seen it. No offense.

Yeah I agree. Sasuke just doesn't have the capacity to feel romantic emotions for anyone, or even be attracted to them. He just isn't interested. Even after he is redeemed (if he even lives after that) he is going to have so much crap to deal with. He needs to learn how to function in a normal relationship, let alone a romantic one. I don't see him ever being at a point where he will be normal in that respect. He is sort of the dark side of Sai when it comes to relationships. Where Sai genuinely wants to learn about bonds and relationships, Sasuke usually operates under the impression that he doesn't need to change how he acts.

I'm not someone who really hates shipping the cold/emotionally stunted guys with nice/bubbly girls. Actually, my favorite pairing of all time deals with this kind of situation XD However, the major difference I see is the ability for the cold guy to change. They have to want to change. Once they are shown what happiness and love is like, they have to accept it for themselves. And I don't think Sasuke will want to change that part of himself. He already knows love and happiness, and he gave it all away. Neither of these feelings were more important to him than hatred and revenge.

We aren't people who see only Part one Sakura. I like Part one Sakura. The only person who really knows Sakura is Kishi. Sakura said so herself that women are fickle so why shouldn't we take her words for it? If Sakura believes that women are fickle she obviously believes that she is fickle and from what's been seen she's right. So why would that qulify her as being a good wife to Naruto when she doesn't even know if she loves him or not?

Maybe you don't know Sakura's character .

That's like saying any person who is unsure about love at some point in their life just doesn't deserve a relationship ever. Which is ridiculous. Countless people behave 'fickle' in their relationships, and yet they can eventually find stability. Really, the whole argument contradicts itself. It opens with 'no one knows Sakura except for Kishi'. And then tries to say this is how Sakura feels/acts. Either we can make judgments based on her actions or we can't, make up your mind XD

Also, by this Sakura doesn't deserve any relationship because she is being 'fickle' now. Hopefully this person doesn't ship SS then

[ciardha]

@Ciardha
What attraction? Never seen it. No offense.

It's there, but I'm not a sauskarin shipper to want to bother with writing it out catsi has a good post laying it out a few pages back.

It's possible Naruto may get Sasuke to wake up. Sakura cannot. I think Sasuke will carry the weight of his darkness though. Just like Gaara and Konan do. (Neiji as well, although his deed were considerably less) For Sasuke to wake up really involves becoming less selfish, more humble.

[firegirl]

here are the others

Well she loves Sasuke. Physically she wouldn't cheat on him, but emotionally. I wouldn't wanna marry a girl who still loves another guy and who told me that a woman's heart is like the autumn sky.
For NS to be a healthy relationship Sakura needs to stop loving Sasuke and grow romantic feelings for Naruto. At this point of the manga I find that rather unlikely.

As long as sakura truly falls in love with naruto, she will be faithful to him.....


Then again, she said that her heart is like the autumn skies.......

Naruto will just have to pray the weather doesn't change...soon.

seems to me that people take this atunm sky thing way to sseriouly which is annoying

[catsi563]

Like Ciardha said it is there and ive written a couple different posts about it so i wont repeat them.

but also Soupy is correct about one thing. Sasuke will have to come to a pretty life altering decision bfore he can trully enjoy the benefits of a relationship with her.

I look at SasuKarin right now as in the same stage as NaruSaku was after the chunin exams. this is the stage where Karin has established that Sasuke can trust her ((as evidenced during the hachibi fight when he told her to stay behind him)).

Now they have to build on that foundation of trust to establish a more solid and mutual relationship. Sasuke at this point is extremely single minded and tunnel vision focused.

his only saving grace so far has been his interactions and actions with Karin. hes almost insitnctively protected her above all else. And he listens to her for the most part even if he doesnt always heed her advice.

Like I said earlier SasuKarin is a relationship whith a suprising amount of development almsot as much as our own NaruSaku in its own way.

its in its own rough patch right now because as Soupy said and shes right Sasuke is in a stage where romance isnt on the agenda, and hes gonan need a major change before hes ready for what Karin is clearly offering.

seems to me that people take this atunm sky thing way to sseriouly which is annoying

Actually they're misinterpreting the quote in its enitety like theyve done with most NaruSaku moments. this si the same logic that lead to the EVER INFAMOUS Yamato was going tot alk about her confidence issues misinterpretation. Among many others.

Edited by catsi563, 23 January 2010 - 08:49 PM.

[socermania2]

Ahh.... Catsi could you bring that post up (laziness)

I don't know. He treated Karin with disregard at the Summit =/

Sasuke isn't a romantic, I guess

[firegirl]

just got into another debtate need help

Sasuke isn't the moron you may think he is. He'd never marry while he was after revenge. He's smart enough to know that that's a dumb move. Also, he was only "mean" to Sakura because he was thinking about Itachi, and felt weak. He wasn't doing that to be mean, I believe that people are likely to do that in the mood he was in. He would not abuse Sakura mentally, either, because she'd tell him, and if she didn't, maybe that'd be her fault. He wouldn't risk losing his family again, that's for sure, so I think that if he realized he was being "abusive," he'd try to correct it.

[Gravenimage]

Huh?????? is that person for real??? is he talking about the same Sasuke who sold his soul for hatred and revenge? the same Sasuke that won't hesitate to try and kill his former team when he already tried once back at Orochimaru's lair and that was BEFORE finding out the truth about Itachi? I think any S/S fan can come up with a better quote than that one. If he sees Sakura again he will kill her without thinking about it because right now seeing the kind of person he has become he has come to hate Konoha more than when he hated Itachi any ninja from Konoha is his enemy and that includes Sakura and his former team. Perhaps that person has to read the chapter where Sasuke tells Madara that he will kill anyone who will get in his way and maybe they will understand some of his hatred.

Edited by Gravenimage, 24 January 2010 - 04:40 AM.

[Derock]

To reply from that quote:

So, calling Sakura weak and annoying since their introduction was just a "mask" and all of suddenly he can act all nice and sweet to Sakura when in reality he always view her as weak and very unimportant? Also, this also saying for the fact that his quest for revenge and power is a quick lie for what, a protection for Sakura? That's very OOC. The only thing I remembered Sasuke "nicely" complimented Sakura was right before the Chuunin Exams because he basically sees her as a seeker for information. Other than that, he turned her down.

I don't know how and why people assume Sasuke can suddenly be nice and "lovey-dovey" towards Sakura so they can have their pairing canon when the truth is there aren't any good interactions or intentions from both of them.

I have the best solution: tell them to reread from the beginning and reinterpret.

[firegirl]

Huh?????? is that person for real??? is he talking about the same Sasuke who sold his soul for hatred and revenge? the same Sasuke that won't hesitate to try and kill his former team when he already tried once back at Orochimaru's lair and that was BEFORE finding out the truth about Itachi? I think any S/S fan can come up with a better quote than that one. If he sees Sakura again he will kill her without thinking about it because right now seeing the kind of person he has become he has come to hate Konoha more than when he hated Itachi any ninja from Konoha is his enemy and that includes Sakura and his former team. Perhaps that person has to read the chapter where Sasuke tells Madara that he will kill anyone who will get in his way and maybe they will understand some of his hatred.

exactly oh an i have another more funny one but in the same debate they think im putting him as OOC but right now................i dont think he cares about anything

he's much too family-oriented to inflict any sort of pain on his wife -- the woman who would, for a while, be the only family he had. Physical abuse is ridiculous, but the idea of him being emotionally abusive is just as stupid. He knows better than anyone how much it hurts to be emotionally abused by people you love -- he basically got that from Itachi from when his family died up until he knew the truth.

Emotional abuse" and being too wrapped up in one's work are two different things. A man knows when he's being abusive; they do it intentionally. I agree that Sasuke isn't the fluffy kind of husband who would hug on his wife all day and tell her how beautiful she is, but that doesn't make him abusive. I think you're misunderstanding the term, there.

And his reaction to her giving him the apples wasn't abusive. He was moody and he snapped. He didn't actually hit her.

Anyway, that's totally OOC for Sasuke. He loves his family too much, and he's only, as you put it, "violent" when he's involved in revenge, and he wouldn't be involved with it by the time he got married . Duuuude. No. You do not understand the difference between being purposely abusive (to a spouse, especially) and just being a self-absorbed, moody jerk. You're assuming Sasuke would get married THIS VERY INSTANT IN CANON. Betraying your teammates to avenge your family is not the same as marrying a woman and then beating her or berating her emotionally, which is MUCH worse than than just turning your back on friends.

And yes, Sasuke has made Sakura cry many times. But did he ever do so by calling her out? By saying she's worthless? By insulting her? No. She was an emotional teenager. Of course she cried a lot. We've never had any proof that he would sink to such a level.

Edited by firegirl, 24 January 2010 - 04:59 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

he's much too family-oriented to inflict any sort of pain on his wife -- the woman who would, for a while, be the only family he had. Physical abuse is ridiculous, but the idea of him being emotionally abusive is just as stupid. He knows better than anyone how much it hurts to be emotionally abused by people you love -- he basically got that from Itachi from when his family died up until he knew the truth.

While Sasuke may be very family oriented, that only is true for those of his clan. He is also self-centered. He only needs a wife for one purpose: to continue the line of Uchiha. While that doesn't mean he would abuse his wife, it does mean he would view them in a less than equal way. Sasuke would be trying to glorify his own family name, so his wife's background would be unimportant to him.

Emotional abuse" and being too wrapped up in one's work are two different things. A man knows when he's being abusive; they do it intentionally. I agree that Sasuke isn't the fluffy kind of husband who would hug on his wife all day and tell her how beautiful she is, but that doesn't make him abusive. I think you're misunderstanding the term, there.

Most women are going to want to be treated well at some point. If he is only cold to her, her love won't be able to stay alive. The marriage would become pretty depressing. Also, a husband should be able to put his wife first. Would Sasuke ever be able to do this?

And his reaction to her giving him the apples wasn't abusive. He was moody and he snapped. He didn't actually hit her.

I don't really think it was abusive either. He was being a jerk, but it wasn't abuse. Sasuke definitely did show the darker side of himself in that move though. I don't think he even apologized.

Anyway, that's totally OOC for Sasuke. He loves his family too much, and he's only, as you put it, "violent" when he's involved in revenge, and he wouldn't be involved with it by the time he got married . Duuuude. No. You do not understand the difference between being purposely abusive (to a spouse, especially) and just being a self-absorbed, moody jerk. You're assuming Sasuke would get married THIS VERY INSTANT IN CANON. Betraying your teammates to avenge your family is not the same as marrying a woman and then beating her or berating her emotionally, which is MUCH worse than than just turning your back on friends.

This is sort of assuming Sasuke will do a complete 180 and change himself into a totally different person. Also, Sasuke's major problem is that what he views as respecting his family is actually disrespect. He is full of mistakes, really, and not very good husband material however you look at it. While he makes a ton of bad choices, Sasuke can't honestly see past himself. As I mentioned before, he is selfish, and has a ton of other issues. While this poster makes his change (for the better) out to be something easy or natural, the reality is that it probably won't be that way.

And yes, Sasuke has made Sakura cry many times. But did he ever do so by calling her out? By saying she's worthless? By insulting her? No. She was an emotional teenager. Of course she cried a lot. We've never had any proof that he would sink to such a level.

Just because Sakura didn't cry every time Sasuke hurt her feelings doesn't mean she hurt less. She was able to weather some of his insults without bursting into tears. Also, just because Sasuke wasn't as harsh as he could have been doesn't mean he was a stand-up guy or that what he said to her was always justified.

[firegirl]

Seriously now, when have we ever been given the idea that they thought the women inferior? Sasuke's mother looked pretty happy to me, so did his aunt. Just my take, though.

Also, Sasuke would not beat a woman to submission, that's beneath him. And I doubt he wants ten children, he could just have one and then they could marry and have two, it adds up in the end.



Sasuke is not capable of abuse, intentional or not. There's no "duty" he'd expect her to have, she'd be free to do what she wanted. He can't force her to do anything.


Since when is Sasuke against women rights? I think he can be nicer to women than men. And he'd be the Head of the Clan, he'd have too much pride to beat a woman.



He's been nicer to Sakura and Karin than he's been to any of his male companions. What "trainning?" He's taking classes on Degrading, now? And where the heck did it ever say any of that?

Aha, okay, first of all, don't tell me to "reread and look back." People always say that when they're out of comebacks.

Yeah, she kinda does. She cried when she saw Kakashi's genjutsu of injured!Sasuke. She cried when she thought Haku killed Sasuke. She cried when in Orochimaru's death!genjutsu. She cried when she hugged Sasuke in the Forest of Death. She cried after Naruto and Sasuke fought on the roof. She cried when Sasuke was leaving. She cried when she woke up on the bench the next morning. She cried when Naruto went after Sasuke. All that's from memory, so don't tell me to reread, please.

"Breaking her heart" like he is isn't abuse. If he were doing it intentionally and thinking "HAHAAA BREAK, HEART, BREAK," then yes, that would be abuse.

Besides, Sakura isn't the kind to take abuse, anyway, and considering she still loves Sasuke in recent chapters, she must not consider what he's doing or what he's done as abusive.

this one made fun of my fourm sister

they think they know everything but they dont

god and their still going at it


melisa is helping but this argument to her

Edited by firegirl, 24 January 2010 - 06:09 AM.

[Jenskott]

sigh this will never win wonder what will happen after naruto whenever if ns becomes cannon ww3

Nope. They will grumble and complain and brood over what it should have been arguing what it will be.

And -hopefully- they shall move on eventually.

Everyone of you have done good points. It still baffles me some fans are downright convinced Sasuke is, deep down, a warm, gentle and kind soul.

Ironically, that is right like Naruto is.

Why SS fans are always giving Sasuke the Naruto's personality and NH fans always give Hinata the Sakura's personality? Do they realize inwardly their pairings are impausible due to the characters' personalities?

[Gravenimage]

The last quote made me laugh this debate thread has become into a comedy jam hour. I can't believe they are turning Sasuke into the cold exterior when on the inside he's a kind good boy type *laughs again* why are they turning Sasuke so OC??? At one time during part 1 Sasuke had everything Naruto wanted, respect from the village since he was treated like a hero, he had the attention and affection from the girl he has always love and he's a genius a prodigy. However Sasuke took all those things for granted because the only thing he thought about is revenge. Avenging his clan was far more important than having the respect of the entire village or even making friends and creating bonds. He's a lone wolf on a mission to kill his brother and avenge his clan why did he chose revenge over friendship and honor for protecting the village??? the answer is simple Sasuke values his honor for his clan more than anything. More than bonds of friendship and the honor of Konoha. To him his family was everything and he desired to be acknowledged by his family as a prodigy like they viewed Itachi.

So in conclusion Sasuke is out for revenge because he wants to restore honor to his clan and because he loves his clan more than Konoha or his former team. His clan his family was everything to him it was his life and purpose to be alive. Now his purpose to be alive is to have revenge against the ones who made his brother's life a living hell all for the sake of peace in Konoha. But by doing so Itachi's sacrifice was all in vain, it was for nothing.

Edited by Gravenimage, 24 January 2010 - 01:35 PM.