4976 replies to this topic

[LuckyChi7]

Itachi was a beast. He could have easily killed Sasuke anytime he wanted

 

Approval notice 

 

 

 

Btw James, one of my friends was asking me earlier about the little podcast we did some time ago revolving around Gaiden, they were wondering if you've posted it on your channel yet?

[Atheck]

It makes things worse each and every time you see a character further in the story say "Sasuke killed Itachi" when that couldn't be further from the truth - Sasuke being effortlessly owned throughout the entire fight all because of Itachi wanting to push him into a corner to draw out Orochimaru and get rid of the Curse Seal, so just letting Sasuke pull out more, then keeping just slightly ahead until the very end, where Susano'o put Sasuke at his most helpless..And this was also with Itachi's eyes being like...99% blind and conveniently on the verge of death anyway from some unnamed illness that is never explained how he got to begin with, all just to allow Sasuke to "win" and get the Mangekyo. Itachi may as well have just killed himself overall. Even Obito told Sasuke that, had Itachi been serious about killing him, then he could have done so instantly whenever he chose.

 

I didn't care for Itachi because of the simple fact of him being written as a Gary Stu who could do no wrong, that includes his almost flawless performance in combat. Did anyone ever legitimately outmanoeuvre him with no strings attached? The closest example which comes to mind is Kabuto bisecting him after feigning unconsciousness. 

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

I didn't care for Itachi because of the simple fact of him being written as a Gary Stu who could do no wrong, that includes his almost flawless performance in combat. Did anyone ever legitimately outmanoeuvre him with no strings attached? The closest example which comes to mind is Kabuto bisecting him after feigning unconsciousness. 

Yeah, that was brought up earlier and/or in another thread here, that Itachi had overstayed his welcome by bringing so much into the spotlight rather than keeping him much more mysterious like he was in part one.

Basically, what Kishi did with Itachi was a mistake that, for example, Nobuhiro Watsuki was very careful to avoid doing with Hiko Seijuro XIII, who was pretty much described by Watsuki himself as being the equivalent of a Joker in a deck of cards and was so strong that he could have easily owned every single opponent Kenshin came up again (and it was also demonstrated just how far he outstrips Kenshin when, even when Kenshin strikes at him "with all (his) body and soul" in order to convince Hiko to teach him the final secrets of the Hiten-Mitsurugi, all Kenshin could do was barely graze Hiko's hand guard, and even then, required Kenshin to move in a way that made it so he couldn't land himself properly afterwards), so Watsuki knew that he had to keep Hiko's presence overall scarce or else it would make people wonder why he wasn't the one to simply save the day all the time because he was so powerful and skilled, which, also as Watsuki admitted, made him difficult to write into the story.

Until the likes of Madara, you never really feel like any opponent was truly (that much) stronger than Itachi, all because of how powerful and skilled he was made out to be along with the constant haxing of the Sharingan. Even Nagato, Obito (until he becomes the pseudo-sage anyway), and even Kaguya didn't really feel superior at all due to how they themselves were portrayed. Hell, Itachi was the one to beat Edo Nagato with the Sword of Totsuka. The only slight "superior" thing Nagato and the Rinnegan showed at all was how Shinra Tensei was capable of truly extinguishing Amaterasu, which was thought to be impossible (for seven days and nights anyway) outside of the user, leaving only things like sealing like Jiraiya had done in part one.
 

[Nar123]

Agreed ... but there are someone here who said that sasuke is essential to the storyline

 

If you are talking to the manga storyline he is

Sasuke was leading the plot throughout most of part 2

 

 

I don't think he's essential to the story line one bit. All that would have happened is the Naruto series would have taken a different direction, and I'm willing to bet the one without Sasuke would have easily been better than the one we got with him.

 

If what happened in the Naruto series would've taken a completely different direction without Sasuke, then it's solid proof tha he was, indeed, essential to the storyline 

 

You can argue that a storyline without Sasuke would be better, I disagree though, Sasuke could've turned out fine if Kishi did not make him into the MC of the series and also did not explored so much of the Uchiha while at the same time ignoring other clans and backstories.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't care for Itachi because of the simple fact of him being written as a Gary Stu who could do no wrong, that includes his almost flawless performance in combat. Did anyone ever legitimately outmanoeuvre him with no strings attached? The closest example which comes to mind is Kabuto bisecting him after feigning unconsciousness. 

 

How was Itachi a Gary Stu that could do no wrong? His entire idea of torturing his little brother psychologically so he could grow strong enough to kill him and return to konoha as a hero failed big time, instead all his plan did was send Sasuke further into the dark path 

 

Itachi was a nice character...until he came back as a Edo during the 4th ninja war, there I can agree with you that he, unfortunately, came back as a Gary Stu because not only he asspulled techs from nowhere ( Inazami) to win a losing battle,  but he also worked to fix his mistakes with his brother smh...that completely derailed what made his character good before, made his death "cheap" and effectively made him into a gary stu

Edited by Nar123, 20 August 2015 - 01:04 AM.

[Catra]

 which was thought to be impossible (for seven days and nights anyway)
 

i still laugh at that. Hot as the sun? niga they'd be dead that instant if it were that hot. Plus it would burn the whole earth due to that much intensity. and the most it did was give karin a little trim!! my theory is that the longer it was on, the hotter it got but still, there was no point for burning that long

[LuckyChi7]

Honestly when it comes to the Sasuke if he had the same importance as he did in Part 1 where he didn't become the character's main plot point within The story of Part 2 then I think it would've been fine. Let's look at it realistically in Part 1 Naruto's goal was "Sasuke Sasuke" no it was "Hokage Hokage Hokage!!"  when Part 2 hits then I can say yeah Sasuke's focus superseeds Naruto's. 

 

 

Like I said before if Sasuke's importance was equal to what it was in Part 1 then I think it would've been fine. 

[rocci]

@halfdemoninuyasha
You need byakugan to see the tenketsu.

If power ranger use the power the ally give to them than the one who beat the monster is the power ranger.
If the ally helped them but the one who deliver the finishing blow than the one who beat the monster is the ally.
Using power ranger comparison too, it's not like megazord claim to beat the monster just because power ranger only pilot it. It's part of power ranger arsenal just like Kyubi to naruto. Unless the Kyubi make naruto go auto mode like when he goes 4 tails against orochimaru like when Eva 01 goes berserk.

So no, Kyubi is not a problem.

Oh and kishi will save naruto with or without Kyubi power.
Have you ever hear the will power or the power of friendship?

[rocci]

Sasuke is essential to the story as soon as kishi decide to make naruto vs sasuke the last battle of the manga.

And sasuke is what rukawa to sakuragi in slam dunk and what Griffith to guts in berserk. That's how important sasuke is.

With that said, I agree with nar123 & lucky chi.
Just because sasuke is importance, doesn't mean it could neglect the other character especially title hero character and the heroine.

[Yyubie]

I don't think he's essential to the story line one bit. All that would have happened is the Naruto series would have taken a different direction, and I'm willing to bet the one without Sasuke would have easily been better than the one we got with him.

See this is the guy i was talking about
 

Sasuke is essential to the story as soon as kishi decide to make naruto vs sasuke the last battle of the manga.

And sasuke is what rukawa to sakuragi in slam dunk and what Griffith to guts in berserk. That's how important sasuke is.

With that said, I agree with nar123 & lucky chi.
Just because sasuke is importance, doesn't mean it could neglect the other character especially title hero character and the heroine.

[rocci]

See this is the guy i was talking about
 

Yes, that's me

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

i still laugh at that. Hot as the sun? niga they'd be dead that instant if it were that hot. Plus it would burn the whole earth due to that much intensity. and the most it did was give karin a little trim!! my theory is that the longer it was on, the hotter it got but still, there was no point for burning that long

Yeah, even when Ay took a hit by it to punch Sasuke at the Kage Summit, he showed no reaction to it burning on his arm - no flinching, no screaming, nothing. He just looks at it and casually hacks his arm off like nothing.
 

 

@halfdemoninuyasha
You need byakugan to see the tenketsu.

If power ranger use the power the ally give to them than the one who beat the monster is the power ranger.
If the ally helped them but the one who deliver the finishing blow than the one who beat the monster is the ally.
Using power ranger comparison too, it's not like megazord claim to beat the monster just because power ranger only pilot it. It's part of power ranger arsenal just like Kyubi to naruto. Unless the Kyubi make naruto go auto mode like when he goes 4 tails against orochimaru like when Eva 01 goes berserk.

So no, Kyubi is not a problem.

Oh and kishi will save naruto with or without Kyubi power.
Have you ever hear the will power or the power of friendship?

1.) That's what I keep saying. That's all you really need the Byakugan for in terms of the "need" with the Jyuken. You don't require it for every little thing related to the taijutsu style itself though. Basically, the fighting style is not something inherit to the eye itself, only the properties actually belonging to the eyes do, unlike things like Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susano'o, Izanagi, Izanami,which do specifically require the (Mangekyo) Sharingan to use and no other shinobi could mimic to any degree unless they have the Sharingan as well, as evidenced by Kakashi. And as evidenced by Ao, who clearly does not use the Jyuken, the Byakugan by itself is still an extremely valuable tool, as I pointed out before, even without learning the actual fighting style.

2.) Except the Power Rangers themselves would not have won if it weren't solely for that power from a completely different source unrelated to them. It was not "their" power and not even "their" arsenal. Simply being the one(s) to deliver the finishing blow does not negate all of that. Just like Kurama was never part of Naruto's "arsenal", at least until Naruto, through convenient Kushina haxing, forcefully stole the chakra from him, which still left the cloak in an incomplete state, since, as early as learning the Summoning jutsu in part one, Kurama was still his own being who, if (more of) his chakra was required, still had to willingly give it to Naruto (as said, the seal itself only drained and converted it in very small amounts because, as the four+ tailed states showed, too much is disastrous for everyone). Naruto would not have become as powerful as he became pre-Ashura hax if it weren't for Kurama willingly aiding him. The same applies even now in terms of the cloak. If, for some reason, Kurama decided he didn't want to help Naruto anymore, he could most likely turn it right back to its incomplete state by withholding his cooperation.

And I would much preferred those other methods, as cliche as they are, because at least it would be Naruto's power (of love/friendship) that's actually doing the winning.

[rocci]

@inuyasha
It's more likely that kishi have no idea on what he write or it just exaggeration just like most ninja stuff.

1. But you still need it to do jyuken because this is not some Chinese pressure point that has similiarity with tenketsu and kishi use it at the end of manga.

2. How could Kyubi is not naruto arsenal?
Kyubi is and always be naruto arsenal.
Just because it has sentient or make naruto super strong doesn't mean it's not his own weapon.

[milan kyuubi]

One thing that bothers me (even in some parts of part 1). Is that we never see strong base Naruto. We never see badass base Naruto fight. There are some glimpses. But 90%+ it all natural energy with Kurama's chakra to stupid levels.

 

Kishi didn't need to give base Naruto some stupid aspull powers. But at least make him fast etc. Sigh...

 

OT but my niece is gonna have a baby brother.

 

Congratz!

 

Edited by milan kyuubi, 20 August 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[rocci]

@milan Kyubi
That' because he's a jinchuriki.
That's why you will always see him with Kyubi chakra. It's his weapon after all.

I disagree on part 1. Kishi already done a good job on naruto, but the true problem happen in part 2.
The reason is simple, Naruto doesn't have enough fight for a shonen mc.
Why? That because kishi doesn't use boss, sub boss, and henchmen system. In part two Naruto true fight happen when he fight against pein. The other fight either show his loser side, testing jutsu, or show off which is not enough.
Kishi could show to the reader how strong naruto by fighting against a buch of chunin if not a jounin ninja.

Kind like how luffy, goku, ichigo, and natsu wipe the floor with the enemy.

Instead that kind of thing happen to sasuke.
Sasuke has the most fight count in the manga.
And most of his enemies are boss level.

[milan kyuubi]

So what stopped Kishi to make Naruto at least faster. more agility, strenght at the begining of part 2? Naruto got ovned in every fight in his base form (with the exception of Naruto vs Kiba in part 1. And that fight was also not up to standards imo). I don't care for Kurama. Have him fight and win against anyone in his base form. Hell even other characters have done it beside Sasuke. So WTH Kishimoto!

 

Also Sasuke having the fights Naruto should have shows who Kishi thinks is the mc. Not Naruto...

Edited by milan kyuubi, 20 August 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[rocci]

So what stopped Kishi to make Naruto at least faster. more agility, strenght at the begining of part 2? Naruto got ovned in every fight in his base form (with the exception of Naruto vs Kiba in part 1. And that fight was also not up to standards imo). I don't care for Kurama. Have him fight and win against anyone in his base form. Hell even other characters have done it beside Sasuke. So WTH Kishimoto!
 
Also Sasuke having the fights Naruto should have shows who Kishi thinks is the mc. Not Naruto...

That because naruto Kyubi power (and sm) is like super saiyan, gear, hollow form, dragon form, and other shonen upgrade form/mode that allow them to move faster, hit harder, more durable, ect ect.
You can't do that, naruto could win someone who is equal or weaker with his base form. That's why he should fight against chunin or jounin level ninja.
Oh and techically he win against deva path pein in base albeit pein is really really weak and get nerf.

Yeah, sadly that's the reality when a character is author pet and his favorite.

[redrose3443]

How much money, has this movie made?

[Atheck]

Yeah, that was brought up earlier and/or in another thread here, that Itachi had overstayed his welcome by bringing so much into the spotlight rather than keeping him much more mysterious like he was in part one.

Basically, what Kishi did with Itachi was a mistake that, for example, Nobuhiro Watsuki was very careful to avoid doing with Hiko Seijuro XIII, who was pretty much described by Watsuki himself as being the equivalent of a Joker in a deck of cards and was so strong that he could have easily owned every single opponent Kenshin came up again (and it was also demonstrated just how far he outstrips Kenshin when, even when Kenshin strikes at him "with all (his) body and soul" in order to convince Hiko to teach him the final secrets of the Hiten-Mitsurugi, all Kenshin could do was barely graze Hiko's hand guard, and even then, required Kenshin to move in a way that made it so he couldn't land himself properly afterwards), so Watsuki knew that he had to keep Hiko's presence overall scarce or else it would make people wonder why he wasn't the one to simply save the day all the time because he was so powerful and skilled, which, also as Watsuki admitted, made him difficult to write into the story.

Until the likes of Madara, you never really feel like any opponent was truly (that much) stronger than Itachi, all because of how powerful and skilled he was made out to be along with the constant haxing of the Sharingan. Even Nagato, Obito (until he becomes the pseudo-sage anyway), and even Kaguya didn't really feel superior at all due to how they themselves were portrayed. Hell, Itachi was the one to beat Edo Nagato with the Sword of Totsuka. The only slight "superior" thing Nagato and the Rinnegan showed at all was how Shinra Tensei was capable of truly extinguishing Amaterasu, which was thought to be impossible (for seven days and nights anyway) outside of the user, leaving only things like sealing like Jiraiya had done in part one.
 

 

Exactly. Itachi was interpreted as being this night-indomitable force whom, once he sets his mind on something cannot be stopped or defeated. He never actually had a foil to his character that other hyped individuals were given such as Madara with Hashirama or Kaguya with her sons. Even his flaws were perceived as being justifiable and perfect because that's apparently who he is. It doesn't help that Kishi enjoyed pandering to him as well by making the so called "God of Shinobi" prop him up onto a pedestal like many others in the manga did. This is coming from someone who would have loved to see SM Kabuto bring him down a notch. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Anyone see the latest episode?

[SlyNinjaKnight]

So what stopped Kishi to make Naruto at least faster. more agility, strenght at the begining of part 2? Naruto got ovned in every fight in his base form (with the exception of Naruto vs Kiba in part 1. And that fight was also not up to standards imo). I don't care for Kurama. Have him fight and win against anyone in his base form. Hell even other characters have done it beside Sasuke. So WTH Kishimoto!

 

Also Sasuke having the fights Naruto should have shows who Kishi thinks is the mc. Not Naruto...

 

I've always had issues with how weak Naruto is after training under Jiraiya for 2+ years. All he learned was how to make a bigger Rasengan, channel a couple tails worth of Kurama's chakra and summon Shadow Clones in various places (not just around him), and basic genjutsu defense. It would have been nice if Naruto had learned some actual jutsus, or even learned how to create a Rasengan using only one hand. That at least would have shown some more development in his ninja growth. The key to the Rasengan is that fact that it can be created and used in one motion, but Naruto using Shadow Clones to help limits its effectiveness. The fact that Naruto was so limited when he returned showed to me that Jiraiya wasn't a very good teacher, nor was Kakashi (as well as how badly Kishi thought things through regarding Naruto's growth as a ninja).