4869 replies to this topic

[Jenskott]

Or is he trying to play games, like what Itachi had done on him

I don't see what game he may possibly being trying playing given that he is seeing that scene in his mind.

I reckon that is a possible hint of he isn't completely unredemeable. His partners were struggling for saving him, and it reminded him of Team 7. In turn he fought for saving them. It can mean he recalled the strength of fighting for bonds for one instant.

By the way, I mentioned in my earlier post the Hinata and Sasuke's OOC-ness in NH/SS fanworks. I remind now a NH fan claiming NS fans make Naruto and Sakura more OOC in fanworks because they wrote or drew scenes where they get along or kiss or snuggle together, but the last she saw Sakura, she was hitting Naruto (laughably, ithat argument was written after chapter 450).

Let's see: during Pain fight, NH fans drew tons of fanarts and wrote tons of fanfiction where Naruto tightly hugged Hinata after the battle or they spent time together. On the other hand, NS fans drew fanarts and wrote fics where Naruto and Sakura hugged after the battle and spent time together during the rebuild of Konoha.

Who was being OOC here and who was transforming the characters in order to fit their ships?

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Hey y'all

Have Something confusing in my mind

I just recently watch the new episode of Naruto anime

in one scene, while Sasuke is trying to save his teammates from being crushed

he took a moment to glance around

and

a glimpse of Team7 image appear in his mind

Why's that?

Is Sasuke truly, truly change?

Or is he trying to play games, like what Itachi had done on him

Well, Sasuke is seemingly did not forget his bonds with team 7. But if you relate it to the manga, he didnt even recall the team 7 scenes, always hate/darkness and his "overusing" his MS.

I don't see what game he may possibly being trying playing given that he is seeing that scene in his mind.

I reckon that is a possible hint of he isn't completely unredemeable. His partners were struggling for saving him, and it reminded him of Team 7. In turn he fought for saving them. It can mean he recalled the strength of fighting for bonds for one instant.

By the way, I mentioned in my earlier post the Hinata and Sasuke's OOC-ness in NH/SS fanworks. I remind now a NH fan claiming NS fans make Naruto and Sakura more OOC in fanworks because they wrote or drew scenes where they get along or kiss or snuggle together, but the last she saw Sakura, she was hitting Naruto (laughably, ithat argument was written after chapter 450).

Let's see: during Pain fight, NH fans drew tons of fanarts and wrote tons of fanfiction where Naruto tightly hugged Hinata after the battle or they spent time together. On the other hand, NS fans drew fanarts and wrote fics where Naruto and Sakura hugged after the battle and spent time together during the rebuild of Konoha.

Who was being OOC here and who was transforming the characters in order to fit their ships?

uhmm what's OOC ? sorry i kinda don't know what it means..

But i tell you, i just recently learned that if Sakura is a threat for NH, Karin is a threat for SS. I previously wondered why, and i thought it was Naruto in the first place.

Anyhow, when the spoilers released(back to the team hawk introduction), stating the introduction of Karin, SS was enraged and they even started the "Anti SasuKarin". I can't believe it. They are assuring Karin is a threat, basing on the spoilers. So, if there will another character who will like Sasuke, it would be a instant threat.(until now)

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 19 January 2010 - 11:10 AM.

[Derock]

Well, Sasuke is seemingly did not forget his bonds with team 7. But if you relate it to the manga, he didnt even recall the team 7 scenes, always hate/darkness and his "overusing" his MS.

uhmm what's OOC ? sorry i kinda don't know what it means..

OOC = Out of character

[ciardha]

My thoughts, exactly. NaruSaku seemed obvious to me since Sakura's first appearance, and their relationship evolved exactly like I thought it would do.

Moreover, Sakura and Sasuke's relationship not only evolved like I also thought it would do, but it got even worse than I had guessed.

And Hinata... I never thought NaruHina was a serious possibility. I figured she would become Naruto's friend and that would be it, but Hinata became even less important to Naruto and to the plot thatn I had guessed (then again, I never gave Hinata one thought, and the plot gave me no reasons to reconsider my attitude. When I found out she was incredibly -or I should say "amazingly"- popular, I was shocked).

Ths, I can not take NH/SS seriously. And coming across crazy fan predictions or fanarts where Hinata somehow morphs into a tsundere or Sasuke suddenly becomes a romantic, warm, kind person didn't help.

Exactly. It's really difficult for me to even get why some narusaku fans feel so worried. But I've seen it amongst fans in nearly every manga/anime series I've been a fan of since I was regularly online in 1997, and every time the couple I shipped and felt sure would get together unless one or both of them died, ended up together. Even in the series where there was some real doubt, social circumstances, neither guy was a major jerk, it ended up who I thought it would be.

[Froot]

Anyways, natsumi33 finished their amazing sequel doujin ;_; It was so adorable. Everyone should read the two doujins. Here.

Ohhh, I read it, it was soo lovely... She made a reference to Heaven and Earth. When I read that scene, my heart skipped a beat...

We could have a whole thread just for that

My thoughts, exactly. NaruSaku seemed obvious to me since Sakura's first appearance, and their relationship evolved exactly like I thought it would do.

I thought so, too! I was sure from the moment the main character introduced his love interest, and I began supporting it.

Moreover, Sakura and Sasuke's relationship not only evolved like I also thought it would do, but it got even worse than I had guessed.

I'm sure lots of people were expecting him to "change..." and they still are. Who knows? He might. But if by some off chance he does, it'll be too late to forgive and the damage will have already been done. Sakura's going as far as trying to kill him. That's pretty hard to recover from in a relationship.

And Hinata... I never thought NaruHina was a serious possibility. I figured she would become Naruto's friend and that would be it, but Hinata became even less important to Naruto and to the plot thatn I had guessed

I only saw her as the classic, typical girl who liked the boy but never got him. Even in the little NaruHina "moments," I thought nothing of it. I admit, I had a bit of a scare after her confession where she was suddenly "important," but I remembered, she really wasn't important afterwards, as much as I like her.

(then again, I never gave Hinata one thought, and the plot gave me no reasons to reconsider my attitude. When I found out she was incredibly -or I should say "amazingly"- popular, I was shocked).

So was Kishimoto

Ths, I can not take NH/SS seriously. And coming across crazy fan predictions or fanarts where Hinata somehow morphs into a tsundere or Sasuke suddenly becomes a romantic, warm, kind person didn't help.

Exactly! I hate how the fandom molds their supposed "favorite characters" into people they aren't and never will be. I thought they liked them. I guess they weren't enough, though, so they had to go and change them.

[Gravenimage]

Like ciardha I'm also very confident N/S will happen 469 and 474 are just plot twists Kishi is making to create more tension and drama. He wants Naruto and Sakura to suffer and go through a lot of hardships in order for them to overcome them and eventually admit to each other their feelings, well at least Naruto since Sakura has already confessed to him. The problem here is Naruto someone like him will never confess his feelings for Sakura because he's too damn selfless and stubborn he always thinks about others before himself. It's always the team and Sakura's happiness before his own happiness.

First he didn't wanted to confess to Sakura because he hasn't fulfill his promise in bringing Sasuke back to Konoha according to 457. Then at 470 he tells Sakura that it wasn't about the promise but he wants to save Sasuke on his own accord after learning the truth from Madara about Itachi. However he will never say to Sakura I love you because he still sees her as the 12 year old Sasuke fan girl and even if he changes his view on her he will continue to believe in her happiness and expecting that she will get together with Sasuke. Naruto will obviously say "as long as Sakura-chan is happy I'm happy too" he just wants to see Sakura happy being with the guy he "believes" she loves and forget about his own feelings for her and his own happiness although this will only be hurting him even more. The good thing is that Sakura now knows how much he has been hurting himself for thinking about her happiness and not thinking about his own feelings for her. I believe she will be the one to open his eyes and make him see that she loves him as much as he loves her and will free him from that selfless prison he created himself in thinking about her happiness.

Edited by Gravenimage, 19 January 2010 - 10:33 PM.

[Froot]

Like ciardha I'm also very confident N/S will happen 469 and 474 are just plot twists Kishi is making to create more tension and drama.

Of course. That's why I was surprised when I saw all the fanarts and rants that said NaruSaku was "dead," (which they've said many times before, by the way, like in chapter 437... ) I knew that it was only a little shift to add in some drama. I think the fact that NaruSaku has drama when NaruHina doesn't... I always thought it was an obvious plot device, but I guess not

He wants Naruto and Sakura to suffer and go through a lot of hardships in order for them to overcome them and eventually admit to each other their feelings, well at least Naruto since Sakura has already confessed to him. The problem here is Naruto someone like him will never confess his feelings for Sakura because he's too damn selfless and stubborn he always thinks about others before himself. It was always the team and Sakura's happiness before his own happiness.

Another thing I don't get; Naruto and Sakura's feelings for each other have been put out into the open on BOTH sides, and that's something no pairing has, not even AsuKure. (Sure, it's implied that they love each other, if their baby is any indication, but it was ambiguous and indirect, and we only knew of it by the time Kurenai was already pregnant.)

Obvious affection on both sides = Requited love, whereas

Unrequited love on one side (especially when the other loves someone else) =/= Love

[Gravenimage]

Of course. That's why I was surprised when I saw all the fanarts and rants that said NaruSaku was "dead," (which they've said many times before, by the way, like in chapter 437... ) I knew that it was only a little shift to add in some drama. I think the fact that NaruSaku has drama when NaruHina doesn't... I always thought it was an obvious plot device, but I guess not



Another thing I don't get; Naruto and Sakura's feelings for each other have been put out into the open on BOTH sides, and that's something no pairing has, not even AsuKure. (Sure, it's implied that they love each other, if their baby is any indication, but it was ambiguous and indirect, and we only knew of it by the time Kurenai was already pregnant.)

Obvious affection on both sides = Requited love, whereas

Unrequited love on one side (especially when the other loves someone else) =/= Love

Well Asu/Kure was a surprise pairing Kishi pull that one out of his sleeve although it was kind of expected since he gave small hints that there was something going on between them. However you're right about N/S both Naruto and Sakura have been through a lot like they have gone to hell and back. N/S has everything a canon pairing has, N/S has humor, romance, drama and angst all the elements a mangaka will put in his manga for a potential canon pairing. Just like other pairings in the shounen genre they had their ups and down and a lot of problems, like for instance jealousy situations which its very cliche in a shounen. As for N/S being dead I just laugh when they say that after all they have been saying N/S is dead since 181 and Kishi has proved them wrong dozens of times. Kishi puts the plot twists to fool the readers making them think that another pairing will happen from the original one he's been developing in a while it's all part of his mind games. He wants people to think that the other pairing that has zero development throughout the whole manga will happen and from out of nowhere he will pull something from his sleeve shocking the readers.

All of this will lead Kishi to make the ultimate development moment with the canon pairing he has in mind shocking the readers like they never expected that to happen. If there will be a kiss between Naruto and Sakura it will be Sakura the one making the first move.

Edited by Gravenimage, 19 January 2010 - 03:18 PM.

[socermania2]

Lol, I was half expecting there to be an Anti- MizukageXSasuke: BUT SHE TRIED TO KILL HIM!!.........wai-

OH SHI-

Edited by socermania2, 19 January 2010 - 06:28 PM.

[Daniee]

Of course. That's why I was surprised when I saw all the fanarts and rants that said NaruSaku was "dead," (which they've said many times before, by the way, like in chapter 437... ) I knew that it was only a little shift to add in some drama. I think the fact that NaruSaku has drama when NaruHina doesn't... I always thought it was an obvious plot device, but I guess not

I think the recent chapters are most comparable to the whole Itachi situation.

After all the build up and teasing regarding him, it was looking like he was just some psycho that wanted more power. But Kishimoto had other plans, he knew what would make for a better story. Are the same people who are saying NaruSaku is "dead" the same ones who were sure Itachi really was evil and wanted Sasuke's eyes, or that Kakashi was dead for good?

Similarly, what would building up a possible relationship between Naruto and Sakura only to "kill it off" accomplish? Kishimoto just isn't that kind of writer and romance doesn't play a big part in Naruto, so he's not going to focus on it unless he feels it's important. Also, shonen manga are all about positive messages and happy endings (for the main heroes at least). Naruto and Sakura going through all this drama only to not end up together would just be....bitter. But they will be rewarded in the end for all the heroic things that they've done for each other, I'm quite certain.

[firegirl]

ok i went into the ANS and saw alot of thing ill just let u discusee

My reason for disliking them as a pairing is simpler than most: they don't have chemistry.

For a pairing, it doesn't matter if it's crack or whatever, they have to have chemistry in order to be appealing for me to ship it. NaruSaku doesn't have it. I love both Naruto and Sakura's characters, in fact they are my favorite characters in this manga... and usually I'd ship my two favorite characters but I can't with NaruSaku because they don't click at all. I don't think it's possible at this time to ever change my opinion on them as a pairing, I just can't see it.

I guess if it came down to it, I wouldn't mind if they did end up together because Sakura would have a loving partner and if it makes Naruto happy, then I'm happy for them. It would still be so weird to me and they wouldn't seem like the characters I know and love anymore. Plus, after Kishi screwed this pairing up so badly he'd have to go out of his way to fix it.

Long story short... if NS does happen and the two are genuinely happy, I'll be confused but I'd accept it.
There are worst things that could happen in this manga

oh and this

This! I didn't have any hate toward the pairing because I never saw it. You can't hate something you don't see. The only reason why I found a NaruSaku canon pairing argument is because it was shoved in my face insulting my fave characters and own pairings. Thats what drew my attention to it...

I was minding my own business, reading this manga and watching the anime for the action, story, and characters. It was nice and peaceful, and I swear out of no where I found out about a pairing war . I love anime and manga, and I have read a lot, but I kept to myself mainly. I was kept in the dark about all this hate, and debates for a long time. It was actually really nice, and I wish I could go back to it, but NaruSaku has ruined that peace for me. I'm really serious too.

In the process I also found out about all these 'crack' pairings, Yaoi/Yuri....and ... incest (no offense to anyone) but it's all a little too weird for me.... everything that I loved about anime, and manga was placed into debates, and anger. I feel like I can't enjoy this manga peacefully anymore with every little thing is placed into debates about which pairing will be, which characters are stupid, or suck. for about a year I let whatever was said, was said, and ignored all the hate but then I saw where most of the hate was coming from.... where all my thoughts and love of characters, including the story was being bashed. All because NaruSaku which wants nothing but what it wants and nothing and no one else matters. It's really insulting, not just to me, but the characters, the story, and most of all the author himself.

If NaruSaku was to happen, I would deal with it. Because then it would show me thats what the author wanted. I would respect what he wanted, but I wouldn't respect this pairing. Ever... There is nothing that this pairing can do to take back all the crap it has done to the characters, the story, and my peace. Ive never been so angry at any story before like I am with NaruSaku for even being considered.

NaruSaku: It doesn't want Naruto to be happy, it doesn't want Sakura to be happy, it just wants to destroy both characters feelings, so then it doesn't matter what kind of goes down as long as it can be proved that it wasn't wrong about becoming canon.

and last but but not least

1) Naruto would have never made the "promise of a lifetime"--that entire scene would have been different.
2) Naruto would have actually pursued Sakura (and no, the hoping to be fed by Sakura nor wondering if she wanted to go on a date with him once does not count as pursuit) and/or thought of Sakura instead of Sasuke or Team 7-centered stuff all the time.
3) Sakura would have actually shown that she was torn between Naruto and Sasuke or at least thinking of Naruto romantically--something that has never happened.
4) The two actually had just one bonding moment that was about the two of them and no one else prior to the fake confession. I do think that they will finally get some sort of bonding moment (or at least I hope they do) that if nothing else at least clears the air between them at this point.

Everything else in the manga could basically stay the same (except that Sakura's confession would've been "real" instead of as fake as a genjutsu), but as long as those things happened then I wouldn't be so dead-set against NaruSaku occurring in the manga. I still wouldn't like it as much as my preferred pairings for canonship, but I wouldn't consider it such an unexpected development that goes against what's been said/done.

please what r they thinking ?????

[socermania2]

The first post is that person's opinion. No problem.

The second person should be complaining about teh fandomin general, because narusaku alone did not cause that. And explain to him that Naruto and Sakura are happy with each other. It's probably the healthiest pairing in the series.

If he complains about Sakura hitting Naruto, explain she's a Tsundere, plus if Naruto cared he would dogde.

The third person is simply ignorant. Ignore him.

Edited by socermania2, 20 January 2010 - 02:43 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

Don't worry too much about the anti-NS fc. Refuting their positions really isn't important; in fact they post in the anti-fc most likely so their points don't have to be argued against. If they cared about the actual evidence they would be debating their stances elsewhere. So yeah, don't bother them, just ignore it XD

[Froot]

Aye. I don't think I'll even bother. Forget the fact that they think NaruSaku's "lack of chemistry" is an actual legit reason. That's a mere opinion. (Like any other paring has chemistry )

The fandom really gets to me sometimes, but I come here and chill out. It's good to be amongst people who make sense

But back on topic. Like Daniee said, Kishi's invested a whole bunch into NaruSaku. What sense would it make to leave things as they are? Even if they both apologized or something there'd still be an elephant in the room. It needs to be officially resolved, because if it weren't, things would be, to use Daniee's words, "bitter," and this is supposed to be an upbeat (for the most part) inspirational manga. Plus, they're such good friends, I can't see this going unaddressed for much longer.

N/S has everything a canon pairing has, N/S has humor, romance, drama and angst all the elements a mangaka will put in his manga for a potential canon pairing

That's true. Good point. If we were to judge by the guidlines of an official shounen pairing, NaruSaku's the likeliest out of the three. (NaruHina is more of a shoujo, and SasuSaku is just... a Tragedy )

Really, NaruSaku's got the only reasonable potential. But note that I said reasonable. Let's hope he's not too influenced by Toriyama and... Yeah

Edited by Froot, 20 January 2010 - 04:53 AM.

[Derock]

Really, NaruSaku's got the only reasonable potential. But note that I said reasonable. Let's hope he's not too influenced by Toriyama and... Yeah

I believed Kishimoto had stated that he liked the DB series up to the Frieza saga. I hardly doubt he will pull a Bulma/Vegeta in this series (and we had seen how that turned out years ago).

[Jenskott]

Really, NaruSaku's got the only reasonable potential. But note that I said reasonable. Let's hope he's not too influenced by Toriyama and... Yeah

Don't worry. He said he had been inspired, not that he is trying imitating him. And he has been inspired by way more shows than Dragon Ball.

Certainly, he is handling the romance theme in a fashion is completely different that Toriyama did. He created his main character's love interest from the start and showed why he was in love with her.

I believed Kishimoto had stated that he liked the DB series up to the Frieza saga.

If that is true, he would not be the only one, believe me. The Cell Saga was still readable, at least. But the Buu Saga... Yuck!

In Toriyama defense, he intended ending up the series in the Freezer Saga (I can't bring myself to call him "Frieza", I'm sorry). And then he intended the Cell Saga was the last plot arc. But their editors kept on pushing him to draw more, and the quality dropped.

I hardly doubt he will pull a Bulma/Vegeta in this series (and we had seen how that turned out years ago).

I don't know if it is true, but I heard Toriyama paired up Bulma and Vegeta thinking it would piss the fans off and they would drop the series (it didn't work). Kishimoto has no reason to make that. Moreover, NH fans have irritated him.

Edit: Oh, and I really advice ignoring the anti-NS club. It isn''t worth.

Edited by Jenskott, 20 January 2010 - 07:59 AM.

[Evil Potato]

Someone actually complained in a anti-fc about hate. I don't think that makes sense lol.

Edited by Evil Potato, 20 January 2010 - 08:15 AM.