Special Jounin
Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:19 PM
Yes Minato's parting words could be massive, but it could also be directed to the non romantic part of Naruto's future.
Looking back at the bench seen I realize how monumental it is, I mean Sakura has every right to believe that Sasuke felt/feels that way about her and should want to know what has happened. I would really like to see the bench scene get cleared up as it could be source of Sakura's "love" for Sasuke
Summoning Master
Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:01 PM
Yeah its alright :)And well honeslty, what your saying is right and im not denying that-regarding your theory about 'accuracy' but seriously, thats just not solid proof especially especially considering how popular sakura, shikamaru, naruto, kakashi, sasuke and all those top ten's are, but since sakura is the heroine of the series ofcoarse shes gonna have better votes!
I don't understand how you can agree a poll is inaccurate and then say it is accurate because I have no solid proof. All polls have limitations, but the limitations for self-reported polls for only a small group of people is much bigger than anything else. The proof is that you have to write a whole essay about them for your statistics exam. And as you an see like I wrote above, that's why Franklin D. Roosevelt won the 1936 election.
Thats just how it is! Hinata isn't to be compared to sakura at all! She's an insignificant side character-I repeat insignificant side character, so no, its not a matter of disadvantage, what your saying about hinata and her "advantage" doesnt matter so at the end of the day plus, that can easily be said for shikamaru and lee who have appeared at the same time as hinata, and yet beat her through the roof just like sakura. So no, your argument is completely invalid. Also, the WSJ is the official, most accurate and the poll that masashi kishimoti dealed with of the manga NARUTO, whether you, me or any fan likes it or not. I dunno why your making things confusingbut like seriously, what your saying just-I cant-your trying to say that the popularity poll of the official WSJ is wrong...or not accurate or whatever, but seriously, sometimes its just not good to look to deep into things when its right there. And no matter what arguments that are presented, there's absolutely no denying that hinata's popularity is anywhere near sakura, naruto, kakashi, sasuke, shikamaru and all of those top 10 characters of naruto. Absolutely no way.
No, you don't understand, I'm not saying Hinata is more popular than Sakura (especially considering I've just spent the last few posts dissecting why WSJ polls are flawed). What I'm saying is, one way of looking at the data (from the compiled WSJ character polls in the last 10 years or so, assuming it is accurate), is that Sakura had more of a presence in the beginning of the manga, so she was more popular in the beginning of the manga, and so Hinata "missed out" on those votes.
Another way of looking at the data would be that, despite the fact that Hinata is a side character who has almost no relevance to the manga, she's often popped up in the top 10, and hence she is extremely popular compared to a main character.
I'm not sure why this invalidates my argument in any way. My argument was the non-randomly selected polls are not a good reflection of real popularity. The two statements I made about Hinata are another point entirely, ie data can be interpreted in different ways.
Also, the WSJ is the official, most accurate and the poll that masashi kishimoti dealed with of the manga NARUTO, whether you, me or any fan likes it or not. I dunno why your making things confusing
"The Literary Digest" was also the "official" poll in that aspect, predicting who would win for twenty years, but it too got the results wrong by assuming everybody who voted could afford a telephone in 1936.
It doesn't matter if what my "opinions" are, I'm not pointing out opinions here, I'm pointing out facts. I'm not trying to "deep" and make metaphors. I can see you aren't very versed in statistics, but there's no need to say "but like seriously... you're just wrong!"
I was just using Hinata as an example of the shortcomings you had with your own interpretation for the compiled polls, not as a statement for her popularity. I could have done the same thing with Iruka (again, a minor character, but made a very impressionable impact in the beginning of the manga, so he had more votes in the earlier polls, and therefore has a higher compiled ranking).
TL;DR: Self-reported polls for WSJ buyers are not same as the whole Japanese fanbase, and therefore are not representative for the whole Japanese fanbase.
The Justifier
Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:02 PM
I agreed to the Franklin D guy's essay, but I didn't agree with you that the poll isn't the most accurate one and the fact that the official WSJ doesnt represent the character popularity. And the reason why your argument is invalid is that you said that because hinata didnt appear since the beginning of the manga she didnt have a good start for her votes, now lemme tell you why its invalid, its because shikamaru, lee, neji, itachi and many other characters that contribute to the story have also been showed later on in the manga, just like hinata (although she has no contribution to the story at all) look at the huge difference in their votes and popularity. And I dunno why your making hinata sound more popular than she is, I dare say putting her on a pedestal.I don't understand how you can agree a poll is inaccurate and then say it is accurate because I have no solid proof. All polls have limitations, but the limitations for self-reported polls for only a small group of people is much bigger than anything else. The proof is that you have to write a whole essay about them for your statistics exam. And as you an see like I wrote above, that's why Franklin D. Roosevelt won the 1936 election.
No, you don't understand, I'm not saying Hinata is more popular than Sakura (especially considering I've just spent the last few posts dissecting why WSJ polls are flawed). What I'm saying is, one way of looking at the data (from the compiled WSJ character polls in the last 10 years or so, assuming it is accurate), is that Sakura had more of a presence in the beginning of the manga, so she was more popular in the beginning of the manga, and so Hinata "missed out" on those votes.
Another way of looking at the data would be that, despite the fact that Hinata is a side character who has almost no relevance to the manga, she's often popped up in the top 10, and hence she is extremely popular compared to a main character.
I'm not sure why this invalidates my argument in any way. My argument was the non-randomly selected polls are not a good reflection of real popularity. The two statements I made about Hinata are another point entirely, ie data can be interpreted in different ways.
"The Literary Digest" was also the "official" poll in that aspect, predicting who would win for twenty years, but it too got the results wrong by assuming everybody who voted could afford a telephone in 1936.
It doesn't matter if what my "opinions" are, I'm not pointing out opinions here, I'm pointing out facts. I'm not trying to "deep" and make metaphors. I can see you aren't very versed in statistics, but there's no need to say "but like seriously... you're just wrong!"
I was just using Hinata as an example of the shortcomings you had with your own interpretation for the compiled polls, not as a statement for her popularity. I could have done the same thing with Iruka (again, a minor character, but made a very impressionable impact in the beginning of the manga, so he had more votes in the earlier polls, and therefore has a higher compiled ranking).
TL;DR: Self-reported polls for WSJ buyers are not same as the whole Japanese fanbase, and therefore are not representative for the whole Japanese fanbase.
Edited by Canadian_DJ, 04 July 2013 - 06:27 PM.
~サ ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 勇婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク
Elite Jounin
Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:07 PM
Even after all that has happened, many people still consider NS impossible and never actually capable of happening. If anything is important to remember about the Naruto series, its that there is a slight romance subplot but its far behind a lot of other stuff, the action, adventure, comedy, and drama. Yet even with events as recent as 631 and even 635, many just outright refuse NS and say its done or that the NS crowd has been a zombie crowd since 2009. Yet again, theroy after theory, we still see stuff that counters these claims and just plain gives more reason that NS is not dead, rather its NH and SS that are the ones with the issues because its not the ordeal of proving a pairing, as it is now, just the way the story is written, for NS to not happen and NH and SS to happen, there are many obstacles for the other two. How should I explain? Its not a matter of dialogue or action, its also the way the story has played out to even have some things enabled for specific pairings, in this case as its written right now, NH and SS have many obstacles. Yet many still go on saying NS is dead, not going to happen, or just plain stinks. Hey in the pairing fandom apparently shipping NS always makes you acceptable to hate and be made fun of, and that we should kitten up and accept NH or SS. Yet these claims always tend to just leave more holes then answers.
A while back I made this LAP about fanbases and their demands and how in most cases, anything they say or merit really means nothing, if you want to look at it, here it is: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=12946
Anyways what does this have to do with this current post? Well its about the theory fanbases put forward and at this point, its just become hard to imagine that even with all the claims they put on NS being never real or just humor while the other 2 just happen out of thin air, its these claims that many not only disagree with but when they use arguments asserted over bias, preference, opinion, and preception rather than actual manga evidence it just becomes harder to believe this stuff. We all know the only thing that matters is the events in the manga, what happens there is the key cold hard truth, but the evidence in the manga however is also a fluxuating gray area in which precption and opinion mix with evidence. This becomes quite a conundrum however, this is also able to be answered, how exactly? With a speculatory question, aka things that make you need to suppose or consider one event towards another or something like if event A works one way, how should it exactly work for event B which does the contrary? What do I mean by this in the Naruto verse for example? Look at it like this:
Lets focus on how some people considered Hinata the heroine over Sakura. Because in the invasion of pain, conflicts (for pairings) and confusion over the actions and aftermath of the land of iron, and now the 4th war and ten tails revival, one thing is true, Hinata has gotten a bit more screentime then in the past, first larger role for her since the chunin exams, because of events like her protecting Naruto, Kishi's interview of her making a better heroine, and 615, people assumed Sakura was no longer the heroine, well we know this is not true. Sakura is still the heroine, her importance has been stated basically in the string of chapters 630-635 itself which in this short string, it gave her a good chunk of screentime since the land of iron, all that was there for her between this was busting the white zetsu and discovering their ability. However, suppose Hinata was the heroine now, but things still occurred the same way, the same events still played out as we see them, nothing changes from what happened in the past up to chapter 637 right now. What do people expect a heroine to do? Fight and help support the hero right? Well if Hinata was the heroine now, there would be a lot of issues, and I mean A LOT OF ISSUES, given as it is, Hinata would still be very very undermatched to Sakura, espcially considering chapter 632 and 633, 632 we see Sakura reflect on herself and how far she came and got basically a kage level boost to help Naruto and Sasuke, 633 Hinata finally gets a technique Neji knew the whole time, barely taking down 1 jubbi clone to the hundreds Sakura took down in one arieal kick, is this how you treat a heroine? Again, the past few chapters, nothing important on her, so if Hinata is the great heroine the story needs, where exactly is both the power she needs as many have always said she had and could use or the constant support for Naruto in non-combat situations like Sakura has? The deal is, Hinata limited in the past and becoming the heroine now, to have a higher role and still do less then even Neji barely taking out one clone, thats not heroine treatment, what would be happening to Hinata now is exactly what the fans who ripped on Sakura all these years about being a bad heroine and who could be better. Basically, this results in an ironic turn of events towards Hinata due to a long lived double standard. Yet we all know Sakura is the heroine, heroines are not all needed to fight, mental development does its own merits to physical, sakura is mental first, physical second but its the mental development of her that gives her the heroine aspects of her own growth and interaction to those around her.
See what I mean? this was a speculatory question to make you think, if Hinata was the heroine now, something much better could come around for her now, yet she is getting the short end, 616 didn't really continue the high mark, she was not special and alone for the power boost of kurama's chakra, not much has advanced on her since 615. It really hurts Hinata in this sense that she still has no aspect or importance in the ordeals with Sasuke, never even speaking to him or having any corrleation, if HInata was the heroine now, there would be a lot of crap she would have to get up to speed with along with helping in the fight against the ten tails.
So what does this all fall back too? Simple, the theories and arguments just saying NS is dead or is never going to happen. Sorry but this is far from the truth, Note this is not bashing other fandoms nor noted central proof of NS happening, only that there is plenty to counter against certain commonly presented arguments against NS and how there are many issues for NH and SS themselves. You are free to enjoy any pairings you want, no one should change that, but there are times when things are just too far out there, it does not help a case.
Common arguments against NS: There have been many arguments against NS both rational and unrational, but many of these all have a few things in common, they either miss a few key points or just don't have enough to back up what they say. Lets look at a few:
NS is dead as of 469, 540, or 615: Okay as a NS fan I can honestly admit this, we were hit HARD, we were nailed 3 times over these past few years and for a time, it really seemed like NS died, but at each of these moments, there was one key piece of info we needed to be sure: Confirmation. We needed more information for each of these events, we needed to know exactly what happened by dialouge and events towards the claims of NS being dead. It was events like these 3 chapters that had many take the "open road" theory, that NS was out of the way and just not going to come back, the deal with all these moments however, NS had many loose ends and not everything was just done and over right there. Look at 469 first, because Naruto said, "I hate people who lie to themselves" to Sakura, does this instantly mean he is over her? Is Naruto just going to give up on Sakura now? Words are words, but later on things should make you think if this really did end NS there, for instance, we get Sai inputting his own speech on Naruto and how the real purpose of the fake confession was to try and free Naruto from the promise of a lifetime. Sakura was hurt and desperate over what Sai revealed to her all because of Sasuke's actions and how he could have put the leaf at war with the cloud. So how did arguments for this come up? Some said Naruto was over Sakura, that he realized she was lying and that she would always love Sasuke, that he finally knew she was a bunch of negative words, etc. These claims, they are not even fully realizing what they are saying, for years its been proven we found Naruto loves Sakura, even just in 457, 12 chapters before, we find a major reason Naruto loves Sakura but cannot confess to her, its because of the promise. Same way he feels he cannot become hokage, saving Sasuke, these tie into each other. So here are a few things to make you think, 457 we see a major reason Naruto loves Sakura so why would it just end there, no questions asked? If Naruto gave up on Sakura, did people not realize how inconsistent this would be? He could forgive Nagato and Itachi for a lot of junk they pulled, he will even forgive Sasuke, but he is not going to forgive Sakura for a lie intended to protect him? Is this seriously the argument NS has to swallow no questions asked? No just no. In fact this claim in itself destroys the main philosophy of NH, the fact that Hinata loves Naruto because she idolizes him, well if Naruto "gave up" on Sakura, this breaks NH both ways, if NH occurred it would be out of pity as many have claimed or settling for second choice because at this point, Naruto knows hinata loves him but did he do anything about it yet? No. the second way this argument in itself breaks NH, if Naruto could not fulfill his promise to Sakura, how could be feel good about any other girl? Hinata simply because she loves him? Not to mention, how would Hinata feel if Naruto actually gave up and gave into defeat? His nindo is never give up, so for the idol Naruto to give up, how would Hinata treat it? Maybe Naruto is not as amazing as we all thought and he is just still another human who fails. 615 he was close to giving up but Hinata and Kurama pulled him out, yes but the difference between say him wanting to save Sasuke and neji's death was, this, Naruto learned that there are things beyond his control and in the end for Neji, neji chose death, he chose to sacrifice himself to protect the lives of Naruto and Hinata. The difference was Naruto learned that there were things he could strive to do on his own but also those which he cannot control. Maybe its part luck on Naruto's side that he is left to deal with Sasuke but situations aside, Naruto learned how to deal with Sasuke and not deal with the sudden loss of Neji. Its only later after he says his "not having any friends is the worst thing to me" to Obito in 628, well guess who built on this speech with her own words (Sakura yes the one who he should hate if logic is correct).
Events like 540 and 615, again they made many say, "Well NS is out, SS and NH are going to be canon." Again like 469, these suffered the same main problem, not enough time has passed to get the full answers. Unlike 469 though these 2 were much shorter in length, Sakura in 540 got a negative view of Sasuke and 615 was a hand holding moment many NH fans jumped the gun with. The main deal was, 540 was left as a speculatory answer, many didn't consider that perhaps Sakura could have been reaffirming her feelings for Sasuke, but rather most said it will be SS in the end, that somehow we were just supposed to end SS without even getting a Sasuke deal on his own feelings. Many felt 615 made NH canon yet it did not. When it came to 540 and 615, the main deal with NS was, not all the loose ends were tied up, they still are not. Sasuke still needs to be dealt with and the story of team 7 and the interaction even between Naruto and Sakura is far from done, the main issue here is that people jumped the shark and just said lockout all the NS stuff, don't pay attention to it, let it go under the rug. This stuff is not going to "disappear under a rug." It needs resolution, it needs closure, if Naruto really was done with Sakura, he would need closure and acceptance of her feelings, even then he already does the second yet still loves her. Isn't it funny for NH to be cannon yet Kushina is said to be like Sakura due to Minato? See what I mean by these questions, if its so true then just why do things like these pop up?
Sakura will never stop loving Sasuke, its going to be SS in the end: The counter argument to this? Character development, pure simple character development over several small character arcs. All I can say to this is simple, what proof, what god given proof says Sakura cannot change? This answer would be true if she NEVER EVEN CHANGED HER OPINION OF NARUTO AND STILL HATED HIM. Yet we know Sakura has close feelings for Naruto, so this blows the argument out of the water along with basic character development. A character changes over the course of a story having an initial outlook and ending in another. Even now, look at 635, as her opinion of Naruto changed for the better, it may finally have hit Sakura where it hurts on how she views Sasuke. Sai asked her how she felt about him being back, while the words were genuine, the smile was fake, know what this means? Sakura is viewing Sasuke's return and actions in a negative light, fake means unreal, the words were convincing but any smart fan would know something bad is going to happen. Sakura views Sasuke negatively because of this. If Sakura loved Sasuke no questions, the smile would have been real but remember this, Sakura is smart, she is no fool, she learned from her mistakes in the land of iron, it was her 630 speech and experience of relying on Naruto that gave her the right stuff to tell everyone to do what they could to help win.
Kushina is nothing like Sakura: All I can say about this is, look at the early interaction between Naruto and Sakura and Kushina's flashback about how she met Minato and viewed him. Hell look at chapter 631. This story is made for middle schoolers to understand, to make these insane twists theories we constantly listened too, no its purely there. Its not hard to figure this stuff out. This falls towards the parallel aspects of the series, this is just to Sakura and Kushina though, stuff like this has occurred 3 or so times, once is nothing but 3 times or more? We know how Sakura and Kushina both had an aspect they hated about themselves that the blondes they hated actually liked about them. Well Naruto loved Sakura's forehead, Sakura has a symbol on it now, any takers that this will come up again? Hmm 
NS is a ship tease/red herring, its all for the sake of comedy: God this is one of my favorite arguments, its again just the fact that if NH and SS were to go canon, where the heck would the development have come from? We know NS is the most present and has its moments, but for how rare we see the other two, how is it just going to end in comedic humor? Kishi had plenty of chances to develop NH in the past, SS was halted for obvious reasons (Sasuke ran away to join orochipedo). So in a sense, at the start of part 2, NS and NH were on even ground, but more and more, he chose NS interaction, during combat and during downtime. NH has had 2 big moments, but thats just it, moments. Moments pass. Naruto still has not done anything about her pain confession and 615 ended faster than Atlantis was sunk. Event then, do this, think for a moment about Hinata, between defeating neji and defending Naruto from pain, what real development has Hinata had, what importance? Oh you say when she was with Naruto and Yamato during the Itachi hunt? ANNNT wrong, that arc had no real development on anyone save Sasuke, Obito, Taka and Itachi. It had nothing even for Naruto. Now just think of this, supposed NH and SS are going to be canon, well it would sure look weaker as a result. Why all this time for a joke rather than a gradually built relation over the events and conflicts of the story/ I'd rather have a relation over the good and bad events rather than just a sudden one. Even then, if NS was just friendship, that frienship makes more sense then a sudden love.
Sakura cares nothing for Naruto: Nice try but no, events early on like the chunin exams where Sakura would forfit to protect Naruto's dream, being suprised at him saving her from gaara, promising to get stronger for him, freaking concerned about him dying if Kurama was extracted, these are only a few things, Sakura cares about Naruto a lot, this is just plain proof, its not love (yet anyways) but Sakura cares about Naruto in ways she has not been able to show yet. She has her own way of showing she cares but hell just remember what yamato said himself, "Its not what you do for him thats important, what matters is how much you care about Naruto."
This is a lot, but if anything is assured, NS has a lot of stuff backing it up. I'm just one NS fan with LAPs, Just search and read other written statements about some of these that are more well known should include stuff like "Why we compare Kushina and Sakura" or NaruSaku: The build up. This is not BS either, though a NS fan, there are many things out there that still need to be done, but as it is right now, NS may start to take care of those. Naruto practically confirmed he still loves Sakura, Sakura is said to be like Kushina according to Minato, Sakura is unsure of Sasuke, and we have no idea about what Hinata is going to do or what her relevance to the major plot is, especially when it comes to Sasuke. The story goes on but as it is, NS has the advantage.
For those who read this, feel free to share it, I'm off to enjoy Independence day here in America (USA! 
MERICA! sorry just had to do that,), AKA my nations birthday, for those outside the US, have a nice weekend.
Edited by Inferno180, 04 July 2013 - 06:08 PM.
The Justifier
Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:33 PM
I'm just thinking that when Minato leaves we might get the BIGGEST narusaku moment yet. I can imagine a million things he would say. He could even tell Naruto "take care of something that I couldn't take care of, because she reminds me of your mom" or something cheesy like that. Just imagine. War outbreak. Minato is HUGE.
~サ ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 勇婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク
Summoning Master
Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:34 PM
I agreed to the Franklin D guy's essay, but I didn't agree with you that the poll isn't the most accurate one and the fact that the official WSJ doesnt represent the character popularity. And the reason why your argument is invalid is that you said that because hinata didnt appear since the beginning of the manga she didnt have a good start for her votes, now lemme tell you why its invalid, its because shikamaru, lee, neji, itachi and many other characters that contribute to the story have also been showed later on in the manga, just like hinata (although she has no contribution to the story at all) look at the huge difference in their votes and popularity. And I dunno why your making hinata sound more popular than she is, I dare say putting her on a pedestal.
I didn't say the WSJ poll "isn't the most accurate one." What I'm saying is that it isn't accurate at all.
Have you seen those ads on TV where they claim X beauty product has "proven to scientifically make your skin more clear?" Same deal. The "scientific studies" are paid for by the makeup companies themselves, ofcourse they'll churn up good results.
Similarly, just because the poll is conducted by WSJ, does not make it accurate. The problem is the poll only applies to readers who bought the magazines and bothered to vote.
What? Me, putting Hinata on a pedestal? The character who I consider a fangirl with no aspirations aside from Naruto? Huh? If you actually read my post, I was just pointing out to you another reason why a "databook compilation" of votes can be flawed (because they "average out" the votes of a character over a decade or so, so earlier characters had more votes). This is another point entirely different from my actual argument, because this is directed at the limitation of collating several polls together. Like I said, I only used Hinata because you brought her up, but Iruka could be used perfectly in the same way.
Dont wanna look at the votes? Go look at the naruto products, advertising or even official artwork, the top ten characters according to the most recent databook adding up with the most recent poll, you'll see alot of stuff for these characters. Hinata doesnt even have anything. Oh what? Are you gonna say a doll? Pft Ino and tenten and also have those, no im talking about posters, key chains etc.
I know you're confused with actual statistics, but please don't insinuate that I "don't want to look at the votes." Again I am confused why this conversation is all about Hinata.
But her votes are know where near the other characters that I've mentioned, sure her votes are impressive, but not compared to the top ten characters I've mentioned before, she has impressive votes and screen time compared to her team mates shino and kiba, but she's nothing compared to the main characters, thats the point im trying to prove,
That's nice, but I'm saying your point is not proving anything if you're using compiled poll results which are themselves only a reflection of WSJ buyers who voted. If you were trying to argue that Hinata is popular, I would be telling you the exact same thing.
ok what your saying about the inaccuracy is OFCOARSE true, but the polls are the closest we can get to know what the whole naruto japanese fanbase votes towards the characters that are the most popular. So wait, your trying to say that the polls aren't important? That whenever a naruto fan wants to know the popularity of whatever character from whatever manga should just take a hike since this Franklin D guy made an essay? So what your saying in a nutshell is basically F@#$ the WSJ polls 'cuz its not accurate according to this Franklin guys theory? Well if thats the case then, haha, I dunno what to say good friend :) if thats the case, which is ridiculous then im done debating.
They may be the closest, but it could be still far from the truth. I am trying to say poll aren't important, when was it common knowledge that manga authors only write what the polls tell them to write?
No, if you wanted to know the popularity of a character, you should know the limitations from where you get your information. I've heard several people say that they think "everybody" hates Sakura just because all of their friends who live in their neighborhood says so.
My information isn't based on "Franklin D. Roosevelt's essay." What essay? What "theory"? Franklin D. Roosevelt was the 32nd president of America, you would know that if you bothered to read the first paragraph of my earlier comment. The link I posted, which I assume you didn't bother to read, was about the situation where FDR won an election when a very reputable poll said he wouldn't - because the newspaper forgot the rich families didn't reflect the average, Great Depression-era family.
Because the WSJ polls are so small, I would argue that web polls (provided they stop people from voting multiple times) may actually be more accurate. Sure, they're still limited to whoever visits the site and bothers to vote, but they're a far bigger demographic than the small number of people who bought WSJ on that week.
Edited by Nefertieh, 04 July 2013 - 06:39 PM.
The Justifier
Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:42 PM
*Gets up to here*
Because the WSJ polls are so small, I would argue that web polls (provided they stop people from voting multiple times) may actually be more accurate. Sure, they're still limited to whoever visits the site and bothers to vote, but they're a far bigger demographic than the small number of people who bought WSJ on that week.
Ok im done.
Edited by Canadian_DJ, 04 July 2013 - 07:07 PM.
~サ ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 勇婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:04 PM
@ Inferno180 - Merging this with the NaruSaku Debate thread. There really isn't any need to create an entire topic for this.
The Justifier
Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:09 PM
AAAAHHHHHHEven after all that has happened, many people still consider NS impossible and never actually capable of happening. If anything is important to remember about the Naruto series, its that there is a slight romance subplot but its far behind a lot of other stuff, the action, adventure, comedy, and drama. Yet even with events as recent as 631 and even 635, many just outright refuse NS and say its done or that the NS crowd has been a zombie crowd since 2009. Yet again, theroy after theory, we still see stuff that counters these claims and just plain gives more reason that NS is not dead, rather its NH and SS that are the ones with the issues because its not the ordeal of proving a pairing, as it is now, just the way the story is written, for NS to not happen and NH and SS to happen, there are many obstacles for the other two. How should I explain? Its not a matter of dialogue or action, its also the way the story has played out to even have some things enabled for specific pairings, in this case as its written right now, NH and SS have many obstacles. Yet many still go on saying NS is dead, not going to happen, or just plain stinks. Hey in the pairing fandom apparently shipping NS always makes you acceptable to hate and be made fun of, and that we should kitten up and accept NH or SS. Yet these claims always tend to just leave more holes then answers.
A while back I made this LAP about fanbases and their demands and how in most cases, anything they say or merit really means nothing, if you want to look at it, here it is: http://www.narusaku....showtopic=12946
Anyways what does this have to do with this current post? Well its about the theory fanbases put forward and at this point, its just become hard to imagine that even with all the claims they put on NS being never real or just humor while the other 2 just happen out of thin air, its these claims that many not only disagree with but when they use arguments asserted over bias, preference, opinion, and preception rather than actual manga evidence it just becomes harder to believe this stuff. We all know the only thing that matters is the events in the manga, what happens there is the key cold hard truth, but the evidence in the manga however is also a fluxuating gray area in which precption and opinion mix with evidence. This becomes quite a conundrum however, this is also able to be answered, how exactly? With a speculatory question, aka things that make you need to suppose or consider one event towards another or something like if event A works one way, how should it exactly work for event B which does the contrary? What do I mean by this in the Naruto verse for example? Look at it like this:
Lets focus on how some people considered Hinata the heroine over Sakura. Because in the invasion of pain, conflicts (for pairings) and confusion over the actions and aftermath of the land of iron, and now the 4th war and ten tails revival, one thing is true, Hinata has gotten a bit more screentime then in the past, first larger role for her since the chunin exams, because of events like her protecting Naruto, Kishi's interview of her making a better heroine, and 615, people assumed Sakura was no longer the heroine, well we know this is not true. Sakura is still the heroine, her importance has been stated basically in the string of chapters 630-635 itself which in this short string, it gave her a good chunk of screentime since the land of iron, all that was there for her between this was busting the white zetsu and discovering their ability. However, suppose Hinata was the heroine now, but things still occurred the same way, the same events still played out as we see them, nothing changes from what happened in the past up to chapter 637 right now. What do people expect a heroine to do? Fight and help support the hero right? Well if Hinata was the heroine now, there would be a lot of issues, and I mean A LOT OF ISSUES, given as it is, Hinata would still be very very undermatched to Sakura, espcially considering chapter 632 and 633, 632 we see Sakura reflect on herself and how far she came and got basically a kage level boost to help Naruto and Sasuke, 633 Hinata finally gets a technique Neji knew the whole time, barely taking down 1 jubbi clone to the hundreds Sakura took down in one arieal kick, is this how you treat a heroine? Again, the past few chapters, nothing important on her, so if Hinata is the great heroine the story needs, where exactly is both the power she needs as many have always said she had and could use or the constant support for Naruto in non-combat situations like Sakura has? The deal is, Hinata limited in the past and becoming the heroine now, to have a higher role and still do less then even Neji barely taking out one clone, thats not heroine treatment, what would be happening to Hinata now is exactly what the fans who ripped on Sakura all these years about being a bad heroine and who could be better. Basically, this results in an ironic turn of events towards Hinata due to a long lived double standard. Yet we all know Sakura is the heroine, heroines are not all needed to fight, mental development does its own merits to physical, sakura is mental first, physical second but its the mental development of her that gives her the heroine aspects of her own growth and interaction to those around her.
See what I mean? this was a speculatory question to make you think, if Hinata was the heroine now, something much better could come around for her now, yet she is getting the short end, 616 didn't really continue the high mark, she was not special and alone for the power boost of kurama's chakra, not much has advanced on her since 615. It really hurts Hinata in this sense that she still has no aspect or importance in the ordeals with Sasuke, never even speaking to him or having any corrleation, if HInata was the heroine now, there would be a lot of crap she would have to get up to speed with along with helping in the fight against the ten tails.
So what does this all fall back too? Simple, the theories and arguments just saying NS is dead or is never going to happen. Sorry but this is far from the truth, Note this is not bashing other fandoms nor noted central proof of NS happening, only that there is plenty to counter against certain commonly presented arguments against NS and how there are many issues for NH and SS themselves. You are free to enjoy any pairings you want, no one should change that, but there are times when things are just too far out there, it does not help a case.
Common arguments against NS: There have been many arguments against NS both rational and unrational, but many of these all have a few things in common, they either miss a few key points or just don't have enough to back up what they say. Lets look at a few:
NS is dead as of 469, 540, or 615: Okay as a NS fan I can honestly admit this, we were hit HARD, we were nailed 3 times over these past few years and for a time, it really seemed like NS died, but at each of these moments, there was one key piece of info we needed to be sure: Confirmation. We needed more information for each of these events, we needed to know exactly what happened by dialouge and events towards the claims of NS being dead. It was events like these 3 chapters that had many take the "open road" theory, that NS was out of the way and just not going to come back, the deal with all these moments however, NS had many loose ends and not everything was just done and over right there. Look at 469 first, because Naruto said, "I hate people who lie to themselves" to Sakura, does this instantly mean he is over her? Is Naruto just going to give up on Sakura now? Words are words, but later on things should make you think if this really did end NS there, for instance, we get Sai inputting his own speech on Naruto and how the real purpose of the fake confession was to try and free Naruto from the promise of a lifetime. Sakura was hurt and desperate over what Sai revealed to her all because of Sasuke's actions and how he could have put the leaf at war with the cloud. So how did arguments for this come up? Some said Naruto was over Sakura, that he realized she was lying and that she would always love Sasuke, that he finally knew she was a bunch of negative words, etc. These claims, they are not even fully realizing what they are saying, for years its been proven we found Naruto loves Sakura, even just in 457, 12 chapters before, we find a major reason Naruto loves Sakura but cannot confess to her, its because of the promise. Same way he feels he cannot become hokage, saving Sasuke, these tie into each other. So here are a few things to make you think, 457 we see a major reason Naruto loves Sakura so why would it just end there, no questions asked? If Naruto gave up on Sakura, did people not realize how inconsistent this would be? He could forgive Nagato and Itachi for a lot of junk they pulled, he will even forgive Sasuke, but he is not going to forgive Sakura for a lie intended to protect him? Is this seriously the argument NS has to swallow no questions asked? No just no. In fact this claim in itself destroys the main philosophy of NH, the fact that Hinata loves Naruto because she idolizes him, well if Naruto "gave up" on Sakura, this breaks NH both ways, if NH occurred it would be out of pity as many have claimed or settling for second choice because at this point, Naruto knows hinata loves him but did he do anything about it yet? No. the second way this argument in itself breaks NH, if Naruto could not fulfill his promise to Sakura, how could be feel good about any other girl? Hinata simply because she loves him? Not to mention, how would Hinata feel if Naruto actually gave up and gave into defeat? His nindo is never give up, so for the idol Naruto to give up, how would Hinata treat it? Maybe Naruto is not as amazing as we all thought and he is just still another human who fails. 615 he was close to giving up but Hinata and Kurama pulled him out, yes but the difference between say him wanting to save Sasuke and neji's death was, this, Naruto learned that there are things beyond his control and in the end for Neji, neji chose death, he chose to sacrifice himself to protect the lives of Naruto and Hinata. The difference was Naruto learned that there were things he could strive to do on his own but also those which he cannot control. Maybe its part luck on Naruto's side that he is left to deal with Sasuke but situations aside, Naruto learned how to deal with Sasuke and not deal with the sudden loss of Neji. Its only later after he says his "not having any friends is the worst thing to me" to Obito in 628, well guess who built on this speech with her own words (Sakura yes the one who he should hate if logic is correct).
Events like 540 and 615, again they made many say, "Well NS is out, SS and NH are going to be canon." Again like 469, these suffered the same main problem, not enough time has passed to get the full answers. Unlike 469 though these 2 were much shorter in length, Sakura in 540 got a negative view of Sasuke and 615 was a hand holding moment many NH fans jumped the gun with. The main deal was, 540 was left as a speculatory answer, many didn't consider that perhaps Sakura could have been reaffirming her feelings for Sasuke, but rather most said it will be SS in the end, that somehow we were just supposed to end SS without even getting a Sasuke deal on his own feelings. Many felt 615 made NH canon yet it did not. When it came to 540 and 615, the main deal with NS was, not all the loose ends were tied up, they still are not. Sasuke still needs to be dealt with and the story of team 7 and the interaction even between Naruto and Sakura is far from done, the main issue here is that people jumped the shark and just said lockout all the NS stuff, don't pay attention to it, let it go under the rug. This stuff is not going to "disappear under a rug." It needs resolution, it needs closure, if Naruto really was done with Sakura, he would need closure and acceptance of her feelings, even then he already does the second yet still loves her. Isn't it funny for NH to be cannon yet Kushina is said to be like Sakura due to Minato? See what I mean by these questions, if its so true then just why do things like these pop up?
Sakura will never stop loving Sasuke, its going to be SS in the end: The counter argument to this? Character development, pure simple character development over several small character arcs. All I can say to this is simple, what proof, what god given proof says Sakura cannot change? This answer would be true if she NEVER EVEN CHANGED HER OPINION OF NARUTO AND STILL HATED HIM. Yet we know Sakura has close feelings for Naruto, so this blows the argument out of the water along with basic character development. A character changes over the course of a story having an initial outlook and ending in another. Even now, look at 635, as her opinion of Naruto changed for the better, it may finally have hit Sakura where it hurts on how she views Sasuke. Sai asked her how she felt about him being back, while the words were genuine, the smile was fake, know what this means? Sakura is viewing Sasuke's return and actions in a negative light, fake means unreal, the words were convincing but any smart fan would know something bad is going to happen. Sakura views Sasuke negatively because of this. If Sakura loved Sasuke no questions, the smile would have been real but remember this, Sakura is smart, she is no fool, she learned from her mistakes in the land of iron, it was her 630 speech and experience of relying on Naruto that gave her the right stuff to tell everyone to do what they could to help win.
Kushina is nothing like Sakura: All I can say about this is, look at the early interaction between Naruto and Sakura and Kushina's flashback about how she met Minato and viewed him. Hell look at chapter 631. This story is made for middle schoolers to understand, to make these insane twists theories we constantly listened too, no its purely there. Its not hard to figure this stuff out. This falls towards the parallel aspects of the series, this is just to Sakura and Kushina though, stuff like this has occurred 3 or so times, once is nothing but 3 times or more? We know how Sakura and Kushina both had an aspect they hated about themselves that the blondes they hated actually liked about them. Well Naruto loved Sakura's forehead, Sakura has a symbol on it now, any takers that this will come up again? Hmm
NS is a ship tease/red herring, its all for the sake of comedy: God this is one of my favorite arguments, its again just the fact that if NH and SS were to go canon, where the heck would the development have come from? We know NS is the most present and has its moments, but for how rare we see the other two, how is it just going to end in comedic humor? Kishi had plenty of chances to develop NH in the past, SS was halted for obvious reasons (Sasuke ran away to join orochipedo). So in a sense, at the start of part 2, NS and NH were on even ground, but more and more, he chose NS interaction, during combat and during downtime. NH has had 2 big moments, but thats just it, moments. Moments pass. Naruto still has not done anything about her pain confession and 615 ended faster than Atlantis was sunk. Event then, do this, think for a moment about Hinata, between defeating neji and defending Naruto from pain, what real development has Hinata had, what importance? Oh you say when she was with Naruto and Yamato during the Itachi hunt? ANNNT wrong, that arc had no real development on anyone save Sasuke, Obito, Taka and Itachi. It had nothing even for Naruto. Now just think of this, supposed NH and SS are going to be canon, well it would sure look weaker as a result. Why all this time for a joke rather than a gradually built relation over the events and conflicts of the story/ I'd rather have a relation over the good and bad events rather than just a sudden one. Even then, if NS was just friendship, that frienship makes more sense then a sudden love.
Sakura cares nothing for Naruto: Nice try but no, events early on like the chunin exams where Sakura would forfit to protect Naruto's dream, being suprised at him saving her from gaara, promising to get stronger for him, freaking concerned about him dying if Kurama was extracted, these are only a few things, Sakura cares about Naruto a lot, this is just plain proof, its not love (yet anyways) but Sakura cares about Naruto in ways she has not been able to show yet. She has her own way of showing she cares but hell just remember what yamato said himself, "Its not what you do for him thats important, what matters is how much you care about Naruto."
This is a lot, but if anything is assured, NS has a lot of stuff backing it up. I'm just one NS fan with LAPs, Just search and read other written statements about some of these that are more well known should include stuff like "Why we compare Kushina and Sakura" or NaruSaku: The build up. This is not BS either, though a NS fan, there are many things out there that still need to be done, but as it is right now, NS may start to take care of those. Naruto practically confirmed he still loves Sakura, Sakura is said to be like Kushina according to Minato, Sakura is unsure of Sasuke, and we have no idea about what Hinata is going to do or what her relevance to the major plot is, especially when it comes to Sasuke. The story goes on but as it is, NS has the advantage.
For those who read this, feel free to share it, I'm off to enjoy Independence day here in America (USA!
MY EYE'S!!!!!!!!! Edited by Canadian_DJ, 04 July 2013 - 07:36 PM.
~サ ナル~サク 4/3 The day he fell in love with her ♥ 豪傑 そて 勇婦 hero, great man and heroine, brave woman°°°★Official Top Ten overall NARUTO characters: 1. Kakashi 2.Naruto 3.Sasuke 4.Iruka 5.Shikamaru 6.Gaara 7.Sakura 8.Neji 9.Itachi 10.Lee★°°° <p>Best ofナル~サク
Elite Jounin
Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:56 PM
http://lmnaoinkonoha...-because-theres AAAAHHHHHH
but seriously, how long did it take you to write this post?!
Omg this fanart gives me major feels http://lmnaoinkonoha...-because-theres
How long? Only 20-30 minutes if I know everything I plan to write, If I wrote for an actual long period of time like 3 or more hours, I would break the website, but the overall reasons are still really short and simple to explain.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:42 PM
How long? Only 20-30 minutes if I know everything I plan to write, If I wrote for an actual long period of time like 3 or more hours, I would break the website, but the overall reasons are still really short and simple to explain.
Inferno that post was super EPIC you should post that on a NH SS forum as a 4th of July gift. 
Elite Jounin
Posted 04 July 2013 - 08:59 PM
Inferno that post was super EPIC you should post that on a NH SS forum as a 4th of July gift.
Like Naruto forums or Naruto Base? Actually I remember from 631, the situation on those got so out of hand they closed the NaruSaku section, and did they reopen it since? I mean if another bombshell comes in say the next 3 weeks, how will things be taken? There is an insane theroy about something happening pairing wise at chapter 645, its just a random rumor though but as far as the pairings go currently, its like this:
NaruSaku is green- got blostered these past few chapters, even a simple parallel this chapter, biggest deal is the Sakura-Kushina ordeal which some think means nothing while most of us know it will be building on something aka what Kushina said to Naruto and how those things came true.
NaruHina- unsure, because Naruto just left the 615 stuff behind like it was nothing, went onto the Sakura GF stuff (talk about being serious to Hinata as some mentioned) and well given what happened in 633, just cannot clearly see what they intend to do with her nor does she seem to have a major or critical moment in the future so its yeah, unsure, this is aside from the fact that its always been limited.
SasuSaku- Red zone, seriously now with Sasuke's dark intent and especially Sakura, I cannot see how this will patch itself up anytime soon, first murder attempts and now Sakura not trusting Sasuke. The fake smile is a negative sign, something negative is being viewed by Sakura towards Sasuke. When it comes to light it will impact both Naruto and Sakura to see what Sasuke has done, if it turns out it is just to kill the jinchurki, this would include Naruto and bee so would Sakura take a stand against the one she "loves" again? Not that she has not before, I mean even after being nearly killed twice, she still barked out against Sasuke in Naruto's defense, its stuff like that which proves she is not Sasuke-centric.
But it would just stir the hornets nest if I put this on a NH or SS fourm, let them have their own stuff there. We know what we know, they know what they know. NS going to be canon this year or early next year? Maybe who knows, the official reveal of the canon stuff is practically the end, but the intent reveal of what will be canon can have already been revealed. I mean its like when people said 615 did not make NH canon, it could only have been the start of it. In this way, because 615 was only a moment and 631 advocated a previous foreshadow (find someone like your mother, this girl is like kushina) well foreshadowing elements persist until their hint is fully revealed. This case, 631 fits it perfect, Minato towards Sakura for Kushina, Kushinas words, bam, all fit together, so 631 could be the start of NS being canon. Sakura's current view towards Sasuke, should this distance her and him, could be another event to push NS in the end. Its not like one would say, maybe kind of like how Sakura hugged Naruto surprisingly after the pain fight, After the Naruto vs Sasuke fight in the end and when he finally gets Sasuke back, she may do the same but give Naruto a better reward (the thing we all want to happen 
)
Academy Teacher
Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:04 PM
Like Naruto forums or Naruto Base? Actually I remember from 631, the situation on those got so out of hand they closed the NaruSaku section, and did they reopen it since? I mean if another bombshell comes in say the next 3 weeks, how will things be taken? There is an insane theroy about something happening pairing wise at chapter 645, its just a random rumor though but as far as the pairings go currently, its like this:
NaruSaku is green- got blostered these past few chapters, even a simple parallel this chapter, biggest deal is the Sakura-Kushina ordeal which some think means nothing while most of us know it will be building on something aka what Kushina said to Naruto and how those things came true.
NaruHina- unsure, because Naruto just left the 615 stuff behind like it was nothing, went onto the Sakura GF stuff (talk about being serious to Hinata as some mentioned) and well given what happened in 633, just cannot clearly see what they intend to do with her nor does she seem to have a major or critical moment in the future so its yeah, unsure, this is aside from the fact that its always been limited.
SasuSaku- Red zone, seriously now with Sasuke's dark intent and especially Sakura, I cannot see how this will patch itself up anytime soon, first murder attempts and now Sakura not trusting Sasuke. The fake smile is a negative sign, something negative is being viewed by Sakura towards Sasuke. When it comes to light it will impact both Naruto and Sakura to see what Sasuke has done, if it turns out it is just to kill the jinchurki, this would include Naruto and bee so would Sakura take a stand against the one she "loves" again? Not that she has not before, I mean even after being nearly killed twice, she still barked out against Sasuke in Naruto's defense, its stuff like that which proves she is not Sasuke-centric.
But it would just stir the hornets nest if I put this on a NH or SS fourm, let them have their own stuff there. We know what we know, they know what they know. NS going to be canon this year or early next year? Maybe who knows, the official reveal of the canon stuff is practically the end, but the intent reveal of what will be canon can have already been revealed. I mean its like when people said 615 did not make NH canon, it could only have been the start of it. In this way, because 615 was only a moment and 631 advocated a previous foreshadow (find someone like your mother, this girl is like kushina) well foreshadowing elements persist until their hint is fully revealed. This case, 631 fits it perfect, Minato towards Sakura for Kushina, Kushinas words, bam, all fit together, so 631 could be the start of NS being canon. Sakura's current view towards Sasuke, should this distance her and him, could be another event to push NS in the end. Its not like one would say, maybe kind of like how Sakura hugged Naruto surprisingly after the pain fight, After the Naruto vs Sasuke fight in the end and when he finally gets Sasuke back, she may do the same but give Naruto a better reward (the thing we all want to happen
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:11 PM
Elite Jounin
Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:41 PM
SasuSaku might be dead and done with in the next volume for all we know. Kishi has been running SasuSaku in a bad light in a negative sense since the beginning of shippuden. It's only a matter of time before it shatters and breaks. Sasusaku is living on a thread of feelings that Sakura has towards Sasuke. I have a feeling that as SasuSaku ends NaruSaku will start to fully develop through till the end of the war and after a possible good closure for naruhina. If 645 is the moment NaruSaku becomes canon, even though it's 99.99% chance a rumor, imagine the reactions from everyone. Forums will close down. However, I see 645 as a chapter that could put an end to SasuSaku if it were anything because I don't see NaruSaku becoming canon by that time. But oh, 645, even though it's a silly rumor, I can't wait.
Just look at what was under Sasuke's personality section on the wiki, not that the wiki is a reliable source of all naruto info, but this part still tends to make sense:
Sasuke proved to be uncooperative during an instance of the battle when Naruto asked him to put out his black flames in order to save the tailed beasts inside the Ten-Tails, to which Sasuke refused and opted to let it burn instead, which earned Sasuke disapproving looks from both Naruto and Hashirama himself. Sai voiced his concern to Sakura that Sasuke couldn't be trusted as an ally, and despite attempting to believe otherwise, the fake smile on Sakura's face suggested that she believed this as well.
That right there, suggesting that she believes he cannot be trusted either, her ideal/view of Sasuke has changed, he may not be insane as he once was in the land of iron but he still has that sense of darkness.
Academy Teacher
Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:48 PM
It's also clear that even though sakura should be enjoying sasuke's return to the village, she is not. Huge character development on sakura's part showing how little her world revolves around sasuke.
Just look at what was under Sasuke's personality section on the wiki, not that the wiki is a reliable source of all naruto info, but this part still tends to make sense:
Sasuke proved to be uncooperative during an instance of the battle when Naruto asked him to put out his black flames in order to save the tailed beasts inside the Ten-Tails, to which Sasuke refused and opted to let it burn instead, which earned Sasuke disapproving looks from both Naruto and Hashirama himself. Sai voiced his concern to Sakura that Sasuke couldn't be trusted as an ally, and despite attempting to believe otherwise, the fake smile on Sakura's face suggested that she believed this as well.
That right there, suggesting that she believes he cannot be trusted either, her ideal/view of Sasuke has changed, he may not be insane as he once was in the land of iron but he still has that sense of darkness.
Edited by arian_rad, 04 July 2013 - 11:49 PM.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 04 July 2013 - 11:52 PM
That's true. I tried not to over think but that does make sense that it should be more than "don't trust him" part. It is possible that there is more to it, but to be on safe side, I'll just say she don't trust him, period. I do wonder where is this direction heading to as well as why it happened before the latest twist.It's also clear that even though sakura should be enjoying sasuke's return to the village, she is not. Huge character on sakura's part showing how little her world revolves around sasuke.
Academy Teacher
Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:07 AM
That's true. I tried not to over think but that does make sense that it should be more than "don't trust him" part. It is possible that there is more to it, but to be on safe side, I'll just say she don't trust him, period. I do wonder where is this direction heading to as well as why it happened before the latest twist.
Heaven and Earth Deity
Posted 05 July 2013 - 01:24 AM
The 645 rumor is nothing but a rumor someone started spreading to stir up the fandom. It was probably done to create commotion or panic to all kinds of fan bases. Honestly I'm not expecting anything but if something does happen pairing wise it won't be any good for NH and SS. After 631 Kishi nailed the hammer on the head and he couldn't be any clearer who is the pairing he is supporting.
He is saying to the fandom" it's going to be NS period, now deal with it."
Edited by Gravenimage, 05 July 2013 - 01:25 AM.
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