756 replies to this topic

[FireFox]

Yeah, I guess it was a continuation of the "look at my back" scene that Sasuke had in the forest. A rare appearance of Heroic Sasuke. It's like a shiny Pokemon.

Kind of yeah bc that scene had a mixed feeling bc it looked like more of an excuse to beat the crap out of that guy then to protect but still you're right on point  .

[winter-serenade]

The wasted moments, the wasted potential, it’s so staggering, it’s scary. If you don’t include romance in a story, that’s perfectly fine. If you include hints of a romance in your story, that’s fine as well. But to build up all of these romantic moments and just shove them aside, that’s just ridiculous. Why include moments if they won’t have a purpose in the end??

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah, I guess it was a continuation of the "look at my back" scene that Sasuke had in the forest. A rare appearance of Heroic Sasuke. It's like a shiny Pokemon.

Check, and honestly Sasuke may have initially just wanted to defeat Gaara to feed his ego, he showed his potential to move on from the massacre like Itachi wanted, even if that went down the toilet.

The wasted moments, the wasted potential, it’s so staggering, it’s scary. If you don’t include romance in a story, that’s perfectly fine. If you include hints of a romance in your story, that’s fine as well. But to build up all of these romantic moments and just shove them aside, that’s just ridiculous. Why include moments if they won’t have a purpose in the end??

Winter, you sure nailed it and then some, girl! It's the thing that pisses me off most of all about these scenes now; they just don't matter after Kishi chose to throw it down the crapshoot to make a stupid hot mess because of Studio Pierrot, insane NH fans, his own lack of confidence, and so many other factors I could continue to list, but won't.

[milan kyuubi]

Those interviews were the only good thing about this ending, never have I've been so confused and laughed at the same time, they were a gem to his stupidity and incompetence it only proved that he didn't knew wtf he was doing by the ending  . 

 

That's right you got it, now go find yourself a waifu and stab her through the heart and forehead poke her  if you want to have an everlasting true love and then dump her like a used rag, your journey should be complete then  . 

 

After some time has passed from ending, they did become fun! It was hilarious watching NH/SS/Pro-enders/fans reactions! I think he was trying to remember the lines! But for some reason he always said the wrong ones!

 

That will get me 40 years of jail and/or getting those shiny bullets in my body! Guess I am not as cool as Sasuke!

 

Check, and honestly Sasuke may have initially just wanted to defeat Gaara to feed his ego, he showed his potential to move on from the massacre like Itachi wanted, even if that went down the toilet.

 

And this is where Itachi as good guy all along story falls like tower of cards.

Itachi: I don't want Sasuke to leave village. I don't want Sasuke to be alone and friendless. I don't want him to be consumed by hatred/darkness/revenge. Sasuke starts to change. Itachi breaks his body, mind rapes him, putts him in coma so severe that only Tsunade can heal him. Still doesn't think he did anything wrong in this! Another planned from start moment by Kishi my ass! 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And this is where Itachi as good guy all along story falls like tower of cards.

Itachi: I don't want Sasuke to leave village. I don't want Sasuke to be alone and friendless. I don't want him to be consumed by hatred/darkness/revenge. Sasuke starts to change. Itachi breaks his body, mind rapes him, putts him in coma so severe that only Tsunade can heal him. Still doesn't think he did anything wrong in this! Another planned from start moment by Kishi my ass! 

 

If it was handled better, it would have worked, but it shows Itachi was a crappy teacher in the long haul, and Sasuke also just too consumed to surpass his big brother, and not just for revenge, but to make himself feel better since he hated Itachi as much as he loved and admired him.

[FireFox]

After some time has passed from ending, they did become fun! It was hilarious watching NH/SS/Pro-enders/fans reactions! I think he was trying to remember the lines! But for some reason he always said the wrong ones!

 

That will get me 40 years of jail and/or getting those shiny bullets in my body! Guess I am not as cool as Sasuke!

Oh the was so tasty they got a taste of their own medicine  . To be honest I just couldn't decide if he was doing it on purpose or he was just that stupid!? .

 

Nah just remember all will be forgiven like nothing ever happened, I'll even recommend you a fine lawyer who can pull off anything, he's specialized in this sort of cases he'll retcon the whole case and arspull you from any crime and jail time his name is Masashi Sellout Monymoto  .

Edited by FireFox, 10 December 2017 - 08:05 PM.

[milan kyuubi]

 

If it was handled better, it would have worked, but it shows Itachi was a crappy teacher in the long haul, and Sasuke also just too consumed to surpass his big brother, and not just for revenge, but to make himself feel better since he hated Itachi as much as he loved and admired him.

 

Itachi being the good guy is good story telling. But it was not handled well. Neither was Sasuke's story. His char had no direction at all after Itachi vs Sasuke. Sasuke would have worked as great villain. If we had more scenes where we actually saw the great friendship between Naruto and Sasuke. And show Sasuke slowly going the villain route.

 

Oh the was so tasty they got a taste of their own medicine  . To be honest I just couldn't decide if he was doing it on purpose or he was just that stupid!? .

 

Nah just remember all will be forgiven like nothing ever happened, I'll even recommend you a fine lawyer who can pull off anything, he's specialized in this sort of cases he'll retcon the whole case and arspull you from any crime and jail time his name is Masashi Sellout Monymoto  .

 

I think at that point he still cared some for manga. Imo his interviews are basically what he thought and what he was told to say. But the guy still sold over, so no sympathy from me!

 

Judge: You tortured and tried to kill the woman you don't care for?

Milan: *shrugs* I was just trying to express what I feel for her!

Judge: By mentally torturing her? And didn't you say you don't care for her?

Milan: Well.......you.....see......

Kishi: Objection! My client has nothing more to say on this subject your honor!

Judge: Very well. Do you have anything more to say as accused attorney before the verdict can be decided?

Kishi: It was true love your honor!

Judge & Jury: True love?!

Kishi: Yes!

Judge: Very well. Jury, did you decided on the verdict?

Jury: We did your honor!

Judge: What say you then?

Jury: We find the accused......

 

Outside of the Courtroom. Large amount of reporters surrounded Kishi asking questions.

 

Reporters: What happened? Was the accused found guilty? How long will he be jailed?

 

With big grin on his face, and a suspicious looking suitcase in his hand. Kishi responded....

 

Kishi: TRUE LOVE WON!!!

 

Inside of courtroom. Milan was siting on a bench with weird expression on his face...

 

Milan: WTF JUST HAPPENED?!

[FireFox]

I think at that point he still cared some for manga. Imo his interviews are basically what he thought and what he was told to say. But the guy still sold over, so no sympathy from me!

 

Judge: You tortured and tried to kill the woman you don't care for?

Milan: *shrugs* I was just trying to express what I feel for her!

Judge: By mentally torturing her? And didn't you say you don't care for her?

Milan: Well.......you.....see......

Kishi: Objection! My client has nothing more to say on this subject your honor!

Judge: Very well. Do you have anything more to say as accused attorney before the verdict can be decided?

Kishi: It was true love your honor!

Judge & Jury: True love?!

Kishi: Yes!

Judge: Very well. Jury, did you decided on the verdict?

Jury: We did your honor!

Judge: What say you then?

Jury: We find the accused......

 

Outside of the Courtroom. Large amount of reporters surrounded Kishi asking questions.

 

Reporters: What happened? Was the accused found guilty? How long will he be jailed?

 

With big grin on his face, and a suspicious looking suitcase in his hand. Kishi responded....

 

Kishi: TRUE LOVE WON!!!

 

Inside of courtroom. Milan was siting on a bench with weird expression on his face...

 

Milan: WTF JUST HAPPENED?!

I think it was after the Pain arc that he stopped giving any kitten, after that everything just started falling apart . At this point who knows why but honestly I don't even care anymore  .    

 

 

THAT WAS JUST SO..............BEAUTIFUL!!! IT HIT ME RIGHT IN THE FEELS!!!

[milan kyuubi]

I think it was after the Pain arc that he stopped giving any kitten, after that everything just started falling apart . At this point who knows why but honestly I don't even care anymore  .    

 

 

THAT WAS JUST SO..............BEAUTIFUL!!! IT HIT ME RIGHT IN THE FEELS!!!

 

Yeah I am way passed the time when I would wreck my brain on how and why. Now I am wondering what will they put in salad!

 

TNX!!! Btw you are the guy who gave him the suitcase!

[RulesofNature]

I think it was after the Pain arc that he stopped giving any kitten, after that everything just started falling apart . At this point who knows why but honestly I don't even care anymore  .    

 

 

(places money on the table)

 

Way I read it is Kishi originally planned to wrap up the series after that point. Naruto had gained the recognition of the village, Sasuke had killed Itachi, in many ways this moment marked the end of their original journeys. Kishi wanted to move towards the conclusion of the story but other forces wanted him to continue on. To make the series go on longer so they could continue to profit off of it, and eventually they won him over to their way of thinking. Pander to the Uchiha fans, introduce new characters, worldbuild over established canon, give Naruto cooler-looking power ups, dump Sakura to make Hinata the heroine, anything to continue on. As a result, Kishi allowed himself to lose control of the story and this affected his own home life as he had to continue working on Naruto rather than spending time with his family. And in the end, there was a degree of resentment towards what he had created leading to Boruto's dad.

Edited by RulesofNature, 11 December 2017 - 12:37 AM.

[DrK]

The wasted moments, the wasted potential, it’s so staggering, it’s scary. If you don’t include romance in a story, that’s perfectly fine. If you include hints of a romance in your story, that’s fine as well. But to build up all of these romantic moments and just shove them aside, that’s just ridiculous. Why include moments if they won’t have a purpose in the end??

Not only that, but to have all that development only to put one party with someone who tried to kill them and the other with someone who he didn't ever talk to. That makes it even worse. An open ending would have been okay to do.

Way I read it is Kishi originally planned to wrap up the series after that point.

Yeah, undoubtedly. So in a way, Naruto lost Sakura because of Obito and Madara, not because of Hinata. Though it was still Hinata's fault.

[FireFox]

 

Yeah I am way passed the time when I would wreck my brain on how and why. Now I am wondering what will they put in salad!

 

TNX!!! Btw you are the guy who gave him the suitcase!

Isn't it obvious!?  .

 

 

 

 

Plot twist the suitcase is filled with Naruto's manga ashes   .

 

(places money on the table)

 

Way I read it is Kishi originally planned to wrap up the series after that point. Naruto had gained the recognition of the village, Sasuke had killed Itachi, in many ways this moment marked the end of their original journeys. Kishi wanted to move towards the conclusion of the story but other forces wanted him to continue on. To make the series go on longer so they could continue to profit off of it, and eventually they won him over to their way of thinking. Pander to the Uchiha fans, introduce new characters, worldbuild over established canon, give Naruto cooler-looking power ups, dump Sakura to make Hinata the heroine, anything to continue on. As a result, Kishi allowed himself to lose control of the story and this affected his own home life as he had to continue working on Naruto rather than spending time with his family. And in the end, there was a degree of resentment towards what he had created leading to Boruto's dad.

You really do get the impression when gather all of that. That especially becomes apparent when you compare all of his interviews/data books  from start to finish you'll notice a drastic change in his level of thinking. You know there's one particular interview that comes to mind on the subject of  switching Sakura's heroine status with Hinata it was at the JUMP FESTA 2010 after the Kage Summit, I'll try looking it up.

 

Here this are the relevant parts: 

 

-Sakura's acting a little haughty towards Naruto.

-She'll be more heroine-like from now on.

 

-Naruto's close, but Sakura loves Sasuke as we should expect from that speech. She's being haughty with her using not so kind words against Naruto right afterwards...didn't she? I can't recall.

 

You hear all the time that Sakura is a detestable person, but that's what seems to be the intention.

="Since Sakura is the heroine", "I'll be writing from now on to show her with that disposition"

 

="Though everyone says Hinata-Hinata all the time..." I wonder if it's that their voices supporting Hinata are so loud (my personal impression).

 

What you get from all of this is that in the end 1.) He really did give up under the fans pressure and constant disdain, mainly Sakura haters, Hintata wankers/ NH  and 2.) The whole thing started falling apart after the Kage Summit and what ultimately damaged Sakura's character was Kishimoto's writing with her nonessential feelings on Sasuke  dragging it more then it really needed it to. This much should be clear to anyone. 

Edited by FireFox, 11 December 2017 - 10:52 AM.

[DrK]

="Since Sakura is the heroine", "I'll be writing from now on to show her with that disposition"

Right... That's fatal. Either Sakura is the heroine, or Sakura is a character on the level of Kiba. Kiba and a hero of any kind don't go in the same sentence.

 

The feelings for Sasuke should have just continued to not be talked about. She shouldn't have attempted to kill him by herself in any event. It is stupid even without her freezing due to a flashback of Sasuke looking at her dispassionately. One of the dumbest scenes for sure.

 

Then in the war arc, it could just have gone the way it actually went. If you want, make her act less weak around him, but that's not even necessary. I feel like those scenes did a good job of illustrating why SS could never possibly happen. Sakura does not know how to deal with Sasuke and Sasuke does not have the patience or interest to address her fears and insecurities. Honestly, it was done perfectly aside from Sakura still confessing to Sasuke with Naruto standing there, which she did because she intuitively knew that Naruto had been retconned to love Hinata.

Edited by DrK, 11 December 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[FireFox]

Right... That's fatal. Either Sakura is the heroine, or Sakura is a character on the level of Kiba. Kiba and a hero of any kind don't go in the same sentence.

 

The feelings for Sasuke should have just continued to not be talked about. She shouldn't have attempted to kill him by herself in any event. It is stupid even without her freezing due to a flashback of Sasuke looking at her dispassionately. One of the dumbest scenes for sure.

 

Then in the war arc, it could just have gone the way it actually went. If you want, make her act less weak around him, but that's not even necessary. I feel like those scenes did a good job of illustrating why SS could never possibly happen.

My point exactly!!! Also what was the point of saying "Naruto is close" !? He just basically admitted that he does love her and is close to winning her hart which means he admits that there are mutual romantic feelings between both Naruto and Sakura. But in the end you twist his love for her as loving Ramen and have her playing the matchmaker pushing him toward Hinata I mean really!?  See that's why I say I can't make up my mind whether he's stupid or he's doing it on purpose toying with the fans he always finds a way to contradict himself its just stupid so so stupid  .

 

Also true her actions didn't make any sense furthermore in her "flashbacks" of Sasuke she's constantly shown fangirling over him again no any specific reason shown as to why she "loves him so much" she just does, but there is no way for me as reader that I can sympathize with this bc it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever its not rational its ludacris.

 

Exactly bc as it was written no matter how much you try to sugarcoat it just doesn't make any sense rationally or narratively.      

[DrK]

Also true her actions didn't make any sense furthermore in her "flashbacks" of Sasuke she's constantly shown fangirling over him again no any specific reason shown as to why she "loves him so much" she just does, but there is no way for me as reader that I can sympathize with this bc it absolutely makes no sense whatsoever its not rational its ludacris.

Then during the Naruto vs Sasuke fight, there is a flashback to when in the academy, Sasuke defeated Naruto in that spar where he doesn't "look" at him. And somewhere during the fight there's a panel of Sakura looking at Naruto in like a shocked/concerned way. But she ended up with Sasuke and just ignored Naruto at the end. Would it kill him to be kittening consistent? Like at any point. I don't care if you decided on the pairings in chapter 680. From that point on, make it all about those pairings. Don't send mixed messages.

[FireFox]

Then during the Naruto vs Sasuke fight, there is a flashback to when in the academy, Sasuke defeated Naruto in that spar where he doesn't "look" at him. And somewhere during the fight there's a panel of Sakura looking at Naruto in like a shocked/concerned way. But she ended up with Sasuke and just ignored Naruto at the end. Would it kill him to be kittening consistent? Like at any point. I don't care if you decided on the pairings in chapter 680. From that point on, make it all about those pairings. Don't send mixed messages.

To be honest I barely even remember the context of those scenes bc I already lost any small interest I had after the Tobi/Obito, Madar kitten I was just glancing over the manga just for the sake of finishing it and see if at least NS happens in a good way I don't like halfarsed or unfinished things. But I suppose you're right if I remember right I think it also showed Sakura witnessing for the first time the true evil that lies in Sasuke's heart considering, all of that you would think it would amount to something and realizing he's not who she think he is but whatever all logic just flies away like I said being consistent and using logic is not in this men's dictionary  .

  

The thing is even if he did that from that point on there was absolutely no way to make it appear reasonable, something like that should be gradually presented throughout the story like it was the case with NS  it would still be halfarsed  but I presume many will take even that over what they got in the end so meh!!!  .

[DrK]

The thing is even if he did that from that point on there was absolutely no way to make it appear reasonable, something like that should be gradually presented throughout the story like it was the case with NS  it would still be halfarsed  but I presume many will take even that over what they got in the end so meh!!!  .

The real question is how the people around Kishimoto thought this would turn out good at all.

[FireFox]

The real question is how the people around Kishimoto thought this would turn out good at all.

I have no idea whatsoever there's just so many contradicting info coming from the whole Naruto team that its really impossible to make up your mind its really that ridiculous  . In the end its just a one major clusterfuk, that's the only way you can describe it properly  . 

[milan kyuubi]

The Pein arc is when it happened then. While I could swallow mass rez Nagato did. In that scene we also had some great lines from Nagato about horrors of war. And Naruto promising he'll find another way . Which was BS since he never had any answer. Beside: It's because I say so! Now when I look back on manga, for me the breaking point is Naruto getting willingly beaten up for Sasuke. Naruto begging A. Naruto having panic attack. That beating scene is where imo manga shifted towards a whole new version of Naruto. As others have said the Pein arc seamed like a good place to end the manga with few alterations. From there on we no longer had Naruto manga. But Sasuke manga. Which in the and was changed to Hinata manga!

 

 

Isn't it obvious!?  .

 

 

 

 

Plot twist the suitcase is filled with Naruto's manga ashes   .

 

Another question is how?

 

It's like in those movies where thief robs something thinking it's filled with cash, only to find porn when its opened!

[Tsuki Hoshino]

I just can't get over people saying "we need to listen to kishimoto's intent." When the idiot retcons his "intent" every damn interview. If kishimoto were a fictional character we'd call him an unreliable narrator.

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 11 December 2017 - 03:21 PM.