1649 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

Otaru; Yeah, it's nothing new that she has feelings for him?? The only thing we found out is that Kakashi is definitely not a SS shipper He talked about it in such a negative way, or maybe he's just impressed by Sakura's kindness. But having feelings for someone isn't kindness, I can't recall last time Sakura actively tried to save Sasuke(I don't think she tried at the kage summit).

If Sakura's gonna be a healer in the battle, I'm gonna kill Kishi in my dreams. Let Naruto do it, since he's the best at it.

My prediction for the upcoming battle is that we have a near replay of the bell test. Like for example, when Madara Starts to use Taijutsu, Naruto will say, "Ninja art, number 1. Taijutsu!" and beat Madara, reminiscing Kakashi of when Naruto was the one easily beaten by Taijutsu. Or say, when Madara uses genjutsu, Sakura will say, "Ninja art, number 3. Genjutsu" and dispel it contrary to how she got caught easily before.

I hope this battle will be similar to the 5kage vs Madara, though much shorter. Tsunade was awesome. :3

 

It's cool that NS fans have been saying for years that "she likes him, but not like she used to". And Madara planned Rin's death, obviously.

 

Okay chapter. But the flashbacks took too much space..

[tricksie]

So you're saying Kishi is going to bring a whole lot of NH scenes back again to the big picture just to stir up pairing drama? Or am I misunderstanding you again?

I honestly don't see the point. Kishi has slowly developed NS like clearing a mixed up puzzle and putting it back together. NS is becoming more and more clearer with them gaining their moments and the other pairings resolved and diminishing. Bringing back unnecessary pairing drama is like undoing all the gradual development and the resolve he's made. That's shitty writing imo. What's the meaning of all this slow development if some twist can put all of the pairings on equal ground again? Especially with the manga nearly ending, why would he want to focus on pairing drama when it's nearly tied up nicely?

 

Yes, in a nutshell. I can easily see Kishimoto falling back on Sakura's insecure feelings from the past (remember her comment about always getting things wrong when she rushed out to confess to Naruto and kill Sasuke, she still doubts herself in some ways) to open a door to some pairing strife. Not a tremendous focus, but just enough to keep the other pairings engaged in the story until the end. 

 

It's not so much sh*tty writing... as it's um, frustrating writing.   But it's in Kishimoto's best interests to keep all of his fans connected to the story until the end, then resolve each pairing with some sort of satisfactory conclusion in the last chapter or epilogue. If he tied it up nicely now or during the confession or even at the conclusion of the Pain arc, he'd have a drop in readership from losing those fans who feel betrayed. It's frustrating to NS fans who want to see it resolved, but I think Kishimoto's going to keep the pairing problems alive in some way until the very end. And I think Kishimoto cares about all his fans, the ones who worship Sasuke and Hinata as well, not to leave them without a satisfying resolution to their stories.

 

My hope is that when he resolves NS, it is in a way that feels fresh and unexpected. Not in a predictable "Sheesh! Finally!" sort of way. And having Sakura mistakenly step out of the way (the way Naruto did years before) only to have Naruto surprise her with his unwavering affection would be a lovely full-circle surprise. 

 

@Nate: I was thinking more that Sakura has either met or surpassed Tsunade as her teacher, rather than as a kage as Naruto would. I would have felt better about Kakashi's speech if he had just included a line about her success as a teammate and finally rounding out the team as a massively powerful shinobi in her own right. Not just looking at her through the glass of her relationships with the two. But again, I think the line was more for the audience than anything else.

[Ether]

 

It annoys me to i personally think he does this just make ss and nh fans stay until the naruto manga is over. However, while doing so he's kinda ruining the quality of ns. I don't like vagueness i want something more and concrete on ns as a pairing not give high possibility of untended pairing nh and to prove that further you have naruto friendzoning hinata without any problem its not direct but naruto mentioning sakura as girlfriend like without doubting is pretty clear sign that kishi most likely leaning towards ns. Like im starting to ask what was the point of over hyping 615 and the volume if he never intended that said pairing in the first place. I rather have kishi work hard and show naruto and sakura interact like the early part two days i remember sakura crying for naruto when nearly dieing or a possiblity of him dieing whatever happen to those days? I don't know why he's putting more emphasis on hinata  makes it seem like he cares about nh more than ns which totally wrong when the follow up happens.

I think he's just trying to be unpredictable, which baffles me at this point. Being unpredictable is easy, you just write a bunch of nonsensical BS. Like the fake confession, in which he contradicted how Sakura was apparently falling for Naruto (there's no other way to interpret those scenes in the Sai & Sasuke arc. Unless Yamato was flat out wrong, which would still make it bad writing since he's purposedly fooling the readers).

[TouKen4Life3g]

As for pairing drama, it would seem like it will be only on NS. Like "both of us will die." It truly feels like it all ended for SS. Not just the comment alone but the chemistry displayed in here.

[LadyofHubris]

 Like the fake confession, in which he contradicted how Sakura was apparently falling for Naruto (there's no other way to interpret those scenes in the Sai & Sasuke arc. Unless Yamato was flat out wrong, which would still make it bad writing since he's purposedly fooling the readers).

 

The confession was fake according to him? Naruto? 

 

The only thing deemed as a lie was her claim that she no longer cared about Sasuke. The thing that has yet to be proven as a lie was her love for Naruto, which hasn't even been touched on since then. I genuinely believe what she said about her feelings for Naruto. 

Edited by LadyofHubris, 07 May 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[Ether]

 

The confession was fake according to him? Naruto? 

 

The only thing deemed as a lie was her claim that she no longer cared about Sasuke. The thing that has yet to be proven as a lie was her love for Naruto, which hasn't even been touched on since then. I genuinely believe what she said about her feelings for Naruto. 

If she was being truthful, Kishimoto did a terrible job conveying that. Basically the point is that he's not writing their possible romance in a good way. I understand having bumps on the road, but this stuff takes credibility away from the pairing.

Edited by Ether, 07 May 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[RedDelicious]

I haven't gone through 17 pages of comments, so apologies if I'm repeating what someone else has mentioned.

 

I'm a bit disappointed that Kishimoto stopped the flashback where he did.

The next moment was Sakura saying that the one thing she hated was Naruto.

That would have been a nice contrast to the present, seeing her with a hand on his shoulder and fascinated by what is new in his life.

 

The other point is to remember that we are getting Kakashi's opinions.

He is an "unreliable narrator".

He has *always* been about Sasuke, to the point that he pushed Naruto's training onto others and completely ignored Sakura (who had to find a real mentor in Tsunade).

Of course Kakashi is going to focus on Sasuke when thinking about Sakura's past.

 

It is more important when more objective observers, like Yamato and Sai, mention the importance of Naruto when talking to Sakura about her feelings.

[James S Cassidy]

If she was being truthful, Kishimoto did a terrible job conveying that. Basically the point is that he's not writing their possible romance in a good way. I understand having bumps on the road, but this stuff takes credibility away from the pairing.

 

He actually admitted that maybe he could have wrote that scene better, but then again how was he supposed to know how the fans would react to it? He said he felt he put her in that type of situation and felt he depicted an honest girl, but admits that maybe he should have done it differently.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 07 May 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Otaru]

Nope, he explained why Sakura did not abandoned Sasuke after the whole summit, he says it clearly "after he tried to take your life" he's talking after the summit not during or before it.

No Kakashi is just making an observation of Sakura's soul.
He's thinking that she's a beautiful/kind person because she never abandoned Sasuke even after he tried to kill her.
It's more an observation on her character than a chronological indication IMO.
Who cares if this were "during", "before" of "after" ? The translation uses the word "after" it's right, but IMO Kakashi's observation is much more about Sakura's impressive kindness. It's a way to make a comparison with what Sasuke has done to her, and how she reacted.
IMO the sentence could mean exactly the same if the expression "even so" were put place of the word "after" -> "even so he tried to take your life..."
I understood it that way.
 

Her romantic feelings for him had ended after it and if she still likes him are a different feelings now.

I think her romantic feelings for him were already shaken. She couldn't have decided to kill him while still loving him with all her heart. In comparison, she couldn't be able to even think about killing Naruto. At that time, she was disappointed about Sasuke. Back then, she loved him because he was cool in her eyes. But he kept showing her that he wasn't "that" cool. IMO her feelings for him were shaken since the beginning, and Sasuke himself has done it, by revealing his true self bit by bit.
 
 

Sakura's confession to Naruto wasnt "cleared" with Kakashi's sentence, he just pointed out Sakura's feelings after the summit.
What she feels now has no relation with her confession to Naruto.
I can pick your logic and say that her confession to Sasuke on part 1 was a lie.
Kakashi realized that she no longer love Sasuke because she doesnt want to be with him after he tried to take her life away.

To me, Kakashi's sentence cleared everything. And I think Kishimoto made him say so in purpose. But yet, haters still don't understand and bash Sakura or see SasuSaku through all this. It's insane. My logic would not be able to prove that Sakura's confession to Sasuke was a lie. I don't get why you think this way ? What Kakashi just said concern the actual Sakura, and it's clearing her feelings.

 

To me, the first purpose of Kakashi's thinking were noticing Sakura's kindness, even before her change of feeling for him.

There is two panels. the first is an introduction to the second. In the second, Kakashi said that she's kind because she never abandoned him even if he tried to kill her. The first panel, the introduction, is here for us to understand that Sakura's feelings are not love anymore. So she's kind and all, she never abandoned him BUT her feelings are not the same as they used to be. The first panel is here to prevent us to believe it's SasuSaku oriented. And it's also clearing everything, because with that, we understand what Sai was talking about. IMO. It's like a "redo" of Sai explanations to repair the fans' misunderstanding about Sakura's feelings for Sasuke.

Edited by Otaru, 07 May 2014 - 04:00 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

Yes, in a nutshell. I can easily see Kishimoto falling back on Sakura's insecure feelings from the past (remember her comment about always getting things wrong when she rushed out to confess to Naruto and kill Sasuke, she still doubts herself in some ways) to open a door to some pairing strife. Not a tremendous focus, but just enough to keep the other pairings engaged in the story until the end. 
 
It's not so much sh*tty writing... as it's um, frustrating writing.   But it's in Kishimoto's best interests to keep all of his fans connected to the story until the end, then resolve each pairing with some sort of satisfactory conclusion in the last chapter or epilogue. If he tied it up nicely now or during the confession or even at the conclusion of the Pain arc, he'd have a drop in readership from losing those fans who feel betrayed. It's frustrating to NS fans who want to see it resolved, but I think Kishimoto's going to keep the pairing problems alive in some way until the very end. And I think Kishimoto cares about all his fans, the ones who worship Sasuke and Hinata as well, not to leave them without a satisfying resolution to their stories.
 
My hope is that when he resolves NS, it is in a way that feels fresh and unexpected. Not in a predictable "Sheesh! Finally!" sort of way. And having Sakura mistakenly step out of the way (the way Naruto did years before) only to have Naruto surprise her with his unwavering affection would be a lovely full-circle surprise. 
 
@Nate: I was thinking more that Sakura has either met or surpassed Tsunade as her teacher, rather than as a kage as Naruto would. I would have felt better about Kakashi's speech if he had just included a line about her success as a teammate and finally rounding out the team as a massively powerful shinobi in her own right. Not just looking at her through the glass of her relationships with the two. But again, I think the line was more for the audience than anything else.

I understand that Kishi needs to keep his fans reading the story. But if that was his main priority why did he put in chapter 631? I don't know what the Western fandom are thinking, but it's clear to the majority of Japanese readers that NS is endgame (even to the NH/SS fans). So is he going to bring back false hope for them again? If he really does that, bringing them down once, giving false hope to put them down again, he's a really terrible writer.

I still think it's kitten writing because he resolved it already. Going backwards for attention is sacrificing development. It's an all-lose situation where all the big three pairing goes back and forth to the point that all of them don't have a strong pillar to stand on to declare as the one true pairing. Were that to happen, I wouldn't want to ship ANY of them. (Because what's the point? Each pairing is as possible as the next one.)

Instead of playing with the readers, as a writer, Kishi should focus on making his characters consistent. He's severely lacking in that aspect, and making drama to gain attention isn't something he should focus on. At least if he decides on one pairing, give them constant development, then the more chances the readers will be satisfied or understanding. But if he plays with all of them NONE will be satisfied. End isn't everything, it's the path that's important.

I agree, I really hope the how he makes NS is satisfying. After all, it was such a long journey

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 07 May 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

The other point is to remember that we are getting Kakashi's opinions.

He is an "unreliable narrator".

He has *always* been about Sasuke, to the point that he pushed Naruto's training onto others and completely ignored Sakura (who had to find a real mentor in Tsunade).

Of course Kakashi is going to focus on Sasuke when thinking about Sakura's past.

 

It is more important when more objective observers, like Yamato and Sai, mention the importance of Naruto when talking to Sakura about her feelings.

 

Ohh, what's really going to bake your noodle later on is, why would Kishimoto even bother drawing the scenes or having the words said if they weren't meant to mean anything?

 

[Ether]

 

He actually admitted that maybe he could have wrote that scene better, but then again how was he supposed to know how the fans would react to it? He said he felt he put her in that type of situation and felt he depicted and honest girl, but admits that maybe he should have done it differently.

That reminds me of the recent "rape scene" in Game Of Thrones. No matter how much the writers/actors/director tried to explain that it wasn't meant to be rape, what was shown on screen still looked like it to the majority of fans.

 

I guess Sakura's confession was a similar case of Kishimoto just not getting the message he intended accross.

[rocci]

I predict sakura will get stab madara near the end volume or start of next volume.

[James S Cassidy]

That reminds me of the recent "rape scene" in Game Of Thrones. No matter how much the writers/actors/director tried to explain that it wasn't meant to be rape, what was shown on screen still looked like it to the majority of fans.

 

I guess Sakura's confession was a similar case of Kishimoto just not getting the message he intended accross.

 

Makes me wonder who really is to blame for it. Maybe our own bias is causing us to views things in ways we are not supposed to.

[rikakim94]

That reminds me of the recent "rape scene" in Game Of Thrones. No matter how much the writers/actors/director tried to explain that it wasn't meant to be rape, what was shown on screen still looked like it to the majority of fans.

 

I guess Sakura's confession was a similar case of Kishimoto just not getting the message he intended accross.

 

Kishi did mentioned that he is not that great at romance so maybe thats why kishi got a lot of backlash during sakuras confession. I wish it was written more better and had a better follow up even if it ruins the characters credibility its what it is. 

[narusaku256]

Just a friendly reminder that we shouldnt declare other pairings are dead, in the spirit of not hurting fellow fans from other shipping fandom.
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[ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiingg.....]
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I CANT HELP BUT KEEP SMILING WITH THIS CHAPTER! Thank you Kishi! Hontou ni arigatou! I was smiling like an idiot during my workday, hahaha :) That's one subtle statement which brings a huge impact in the overall progress of romance subplot. Seriously, if people starts making things up to skew what's already stated clearly in the manga (with regards of Sakura's feeling), well, you've been warned. It doesnt take a genius.
 
I like the fact that the perspective of Sakura's feeling comes from other people --Yamato, Sai, and now Kakashi. These are the key people she's been interacting with and has been watching her grow over the time. The statement from Kakashi comes with no surprise. But I think I'd like to take off my pairing goggle for a while and look a bit more into the manga (with my limited reading skills).
 
This is a nice setup chapter for the upcoming battle which will be focusing on Team 7 dynamics. It compares to how Team 7 then, and how it is now. I think other members have already stated it in this thread, so I wont repeat. It's about their growth and their journey. Thereby the comparison with day one of their enrollment.
 
a) Naruto is on a good track with his growth -- to be acknowledged by others and surpasses the previous hokage. This is the attribute that defines his character. I'm a bit disappointed that he can easily restore Kakashi's eye. It was supposed to be Sakura's job. But given how Shikamaru was treated and how suddenly Naruto can stop Gai from dying, I guess I'll just shrug it off.
 
Which comes to my next point: Naruto's new ability, which he showed in front of the team, is not meant for Naruto power boost declaration per se. It is meant for the context of Team 7 growth. Remember the day in part 1 where Sasuke is all cool and Sakura was very impressed by Sasuke's skills? Compare that with the panel in this chapter. Sakura was literally impressed with Naruto and she wanted to know how he did it, while at the same time, Sasuke is pretty much getting ignored by the two, and he was like "Guys, I told you not to let your guard down"... and Naruto was like "You never told me so", and Sakura keep insisting to know how Naruto restore Kakashi's eye. I was very much pleased with the portrait. Wow, how things have changed... I keep smiling  when I read that panels and how Kakashi's bored face was depicted with Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke bickering in the background. Priceless.
 
 
b) Sakura is on a good track with her growth as well --to overcome her main drawback (which is Sasuke). It's the attribute of her character --her name is associated with 'haru' in japanese language, which means 'spring' (often associated with youth, puberty) so, I'm alright to associate her with love aspect of the story. Though, she's more than just a girl. She's a strong woman!
 
The fact that Kishi pulled out how fangirly Sakura was (immature and seems like has nothing better to do than being a fangirl) towards Sasuke back then; Versus a calm, collected and cautious (mature, reasonable) Sakura today. What I like is the fact that she didnt rush towards Sasuke, but helping Kakashi instead. Also, when Naruto comes around, she's more astonished to Naruto's ability and more interested to talk to Naruto compared to Sasuke's new eyes. Heck, when Naruto's around she didnt bother that much over Sasuke isnt she? Only when Kakashi brings up the question, she also wanted to know. The best part is, Kakashi comments itself. It can't get any more obvious... come on. Anyways, I wont comment other pairings are dead yet. I'm afraid I'll jinx it...
 
 
c) Sasuke was still questionable. The fact that he cant give clear and precise answer means he's hiding something. And based on the facial expression and situationi, it doesnt seems to be a good intention. If I want to stretch a bit, Naruto is the only one not cornering him with a question... probably he knew that Sasuke has a bad intention --he can detect malice and evil intention in that form isnt he? That's why Naruto went like "..." instead of pushing questions to Sasuke. He may not want to corner Sasuke in front of Sakura and Kakashi. It'll bring sadness to them, which I doubt he'll want that.
 
Ok, so far so good with NS. So, for the past few months, We have the girlfriend comments together with Minato's comparison to Kushina; Sakura being there when Naruto in the verge of dying with an added bonus of CPR, while Hinata fell to the ground. We have Sakura questioning Sasuke for his true motives and Kakashi mentioning that her feelings have changed towards Sasuke (I would assume to become nakama, instead of love)...
 
All is good, but I would expect the pairing drama to be concluded at the very end. I'll wait patiently, enjoy the story and lower my expectation as always.
 
PS: I really love how Naruto and Sakura interact with each other. Such an adorable couple people.

Tsubarashi :o. The developers should really increase the maximum number of positive votes for the day XD

Edited by narusaku256, 07 May 2014 - 04:06 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Finally saw sawyer7mage's review and I laughed. The guy made a sarcastic comment when Obito send Sakura back saying" yes she's safe and we know we were all worried about her". Yep everybody wanted Madara to killher silly anti's when they will learn Kishimoto will always go against their wishes. Aside from the part he was worshipping Madara putting him on a pedestal he actually made fun of Naruto and Sakura during Kakashi's team seven flashback (obviously he's not happy in the least, SS has been shot to the heart and Hinata is still kissing the ground not looking good for NH either). Why can't the other fandom be like sawyer who hides his pain of feeling butt hurt throuhg sarcasm and humor? I prefer that than raging out and be in denial.

[ioria]

Loved this chapter! I'm so happy things didn't go as I thought!

Well, okey, I still don't like Naruto's god-like powers, but I can't have all the nice things I want...

[Gravenimage]

rocci@ please stop bringing that up. Because you'll be no better than the anti fans that want Madara to kill her. I doubt Kishi will use Sakura as a plot device to fuel Naruto's anger like he did with Hinata during the Pain arc.

[rocci]

@grave
Why not? The possibility become higher as soon sakura join the fight and the rin revelation. It will become like garra vs naruto.
And no sakura will not dead. I mean neoruto will never allow it to happen right?