488 replies to this topic

[DattebayoXShannaro]

 

I'm not convinced that Orochimaru is good, he very well could be just biding his time. That's really what I'm hoping for.

 

 

Sorry about the consecutive posts  . I wanted to edit so that I could address them both, but it seems it doesn't work that way.

 

 

Are you using internet explorer?

[BakeNeko-Chan]

True but this is a universe where children are indoctrinated into what amounts as a nation's military at a very young age. Oftentimes they experience violence and warfare before they even reach adolescence. Compared to the average child in our reality, these people are all highly intelligent and very disciplined. Still they do probably have different standards in matters of criminality and retribution depending on the age of an offender.

Gaara was a small child who grew up under the most strenuous and traumatic of circumstances. He was alienated from everyone in his village and his father would routinely send assassins to attempt to kill him just to test his mettle as a jinchuurki. Considering his background and the very sensitive nature of his age it's possible that the authorities in both Konoha and Suna would grant him leniency like for many child offenders. That and his abilities make him a very powerful asset to have which would probably be another factor in judging Gaara.

 

I don't have much else to add to that, I agree with everything you said here.

 

Orochimaru is like the other villains. A victim because his parents died and what other things said about his past that are the same or close things that happened with other villains. I see him now getting the same treatment like them except Sasuke either dying or alive but a wanderer.

 

From what I see in the manga regarding Orochimaru, he's not shown to be bad at the level of Obito and Madara on how far they take things. By this, Orochimaru is now walking and talking casually around the alliance now which it's a proof that he's not viewed this horrible person like Sasuke, Obito and Madara especially now from his very own friend and teammate Tsunade. I think this is because for Orochimaru's future role regarding Sasuke that he's kept like this for now like seeing the new wind and what he's going to do after the war. Plus, I see him dying at the end in a way or another. I don't think he'll be back hiding under the grounds.

 

 

Yeah, but this difference won't be a significant one in the manga like we saw with Nagato and now soon with Madara by them were grown ups like Orochimaru when they left the village and done these bad things. The choices that they have decided and take the action upon are accountable on them cause they know the right from wrong, but like Nagato and Gaara, the same link goes with Orochimaru on having what happened with him in the past will be seen as misguided him to do the things he has done, and have a story line that will tell the readers to understand him more when his end will come.

 

That's what I think from the way the story has shown us with Nagato and Gaara, and probably Obito and Madara also.

 

I'm sorry but I disagree. From what I see of Orochimaru is someone apathetic and amoral and a self-serving sadist. Just because his parents died, as I said, is no excuse. I don't see him as being misguided like Nagato or manipulated like Obito. There is nothing that could convince me he didn't know exactly what he was doing. The difference to me is extremely significant, no matter how Kishimoto may, or may not, try to justify it.

[Atheck]

there isn't a judicial system in the naruverse and we don't have to concern ourselves with it.

Says who? We known that each village has an incarceration facility to house its criminals. Despite having different standards there is a fine line between human culpability and what is acceptable that every person is expected to be abide by. Military insurrection and practicing forbidden technique appear to be two of the worst offences that are committable in their world.

What the other user explained seems to be true (unfortunately). In a world as immersed in its conflicts as this one where nationality and human desire to exact revenge serve to alienate people from one another the crimes that are looked down upon most appear to be treason and attacking political or military leaders. You could massacre an entire group of soldiers (during a time of peace) and it won't even be paid a second glance if that's the extent of your crimes.
 

As for Sasuke at one point there will be a fight between what the village wants and what Naruto wants but if we go by a practical reason to forgive Sasuke of his crimes against a village it would be Sasuke's allegiance to it. if sasuke doesnt oppose the stability of the village then having him and naruto the 2 most powerfull shinobi in existance is a very big thing for the village.

Naturally his abilities would take precedence over the silenced screams of the 18 samurai and Kumo shinobi whom he murdered. But even if you look at his record from a strictly utilitarian mindset he is still a liability to have because of his clan's genetic predisposition for going off the deep end whenever they lose someone who was close to them. Moreover Sasuke is a highly impressionable person who can be easily swayed to any side with the appropriate words. That aspect of his character has been stressed continually ever since the Chunin Exams in P1.

 

But I dont see how much this village vs Sasuke thing will develop because of Naruto's vouch. Thou they werent all that happy with naruto's tnj of nagato there may not be enough time to discuss it.

I can't say that I agree with Naruto's methods completely since he has the mentality of an absolutist. It takes a very significant and impactful event where he knows that he has no control over things for him to finally reach an understanding that he can't always get what he wants. We saw this when he was contemplating on what to do with Sasuke in the Kage Summit arc and later when he became dead set on "shouldering all of the hatred of the enemy".

Orochimaru: We know little about Orochimaru's personal upbringing besides the fact that his parents died. The difference between himself and other villains is that he has no misgivings with any particular group or the system that they abide by. He isn't looking to exact revenge neither does he care that his parents died. That original motivation was lost over time. It acted as nothing more than catalyst to propel him on his detestable career.

Tobi and Madara have reasons to their actions. From their perspectives they believe they're saving humanity from itself by creating the illusionary world. Unlike Orochimaru they never forgot those who drove them to become missing nin, create Akatsuki, and hunt down the bijuu. They're apathetic warmongers who aren't concerned with the immeasurable sacrifices that have been suffered because of their actions but in their own twisted mindsets they believe them to be necessary sacrifices for the "greater good" of all people.

Like the above user mentioned Orochimaru isn't misguided. He isn't fighting for any distorted ideal of peace. Everything that he's done has been for his own personal benefit. In that respect he isn't too different from criminals like Kakuzu or Gato.

[Dkey]

Says who? We known that each village has an incarceration facility to house its criminals. Despite having different standards there is a fine line between human culpability and what is acceptable that every person is expected to be abide by.

 

And do we have an idea of how does it work?

 

All we get is that the criminal gets on a kill list and agents have to fight and kill him. Probably they aren't even allowed to engage them if they know they are inferior to that criminal.

 

If there is a more complex judicial system it never mattered.

 

 

As for villains I say they are fine. This aspect that the villains all have a redeeming quality well it isn't so hard to swallow. I don't understand the ones that want villains to just be singular in their pursuit and don't get to lose. actually this personal redemption thing is one of the most powerful things a good character can do against/for an evil character. To change his ways even if the life of that character ends in the next panels.

There are villains that died without this realization for them.

But as for the other villains the ones who happen to be paralled to Sasuke it does make sense for them to be changed somehow.

 

I don't know where Orochimaru's destiny will take him but as I see it he is going to have to change and accept death at one point. Half-assing it makes him a cartoonish villain were you know he will show up in the next episode with some great contraption to destroy/conquer the world.

As for the other 2 Obito and Madara especially Madara helped Hashirama see his dream even if it is postmortem. His actions pushed the 5 villages to unite against a single foe.

[Atheck]

And do we have an idea of how does it work?

The Hokage has the capacity to imprison or jail anyone who is committing civil disobedience. We know this from Kakashi mentioning that Danzo could incarcerate Naruto if he just barged into his tent and made demands that he alter his policies regarding Sasuke.

The entire Kage Summit was focused on assessing the crimes Akatsuki had committed. We see the Hokage and the Jonin during the Chunin Exams gathering to discuss the matter of Orochimaru who had been spotted by Anko and was threatening retaliation if the exams were to be stopped.

So no, the judicial system isn't explored in great detail but there are meetings that take place to address criminal activity and find a solution to them.
 

All we get is that the criminal gets on a kill list and agents have to fight and kill him. Probably they aren't even allowed to engage them if they know they are inferior to that criminal.

The offender's name is only put in the bingo book if they have become missing nin. From what little knowledge we have the only confirmable violation that comes with a death sentence is insurrection. You can murder bystanders, spout murderous threats, or even associate yourself with a missing criminal and the greatest punishmnent that you could potentially receive is imprisonment with a ball and chain attached to your leg.
 

If there is a more complex judicial system it never mattered.

 
Sadly I agree with you here.
 

As for villains I say they are fine. This aspect that the villains all have a redeeming quality well it isn't so hard to swallow.

What redeeming quality is there about Orochimaru, Kakuzu, Hidan, Deidara, Gato, the Sound 4, or any other criminals with an unexplored background?
 

I don't understand the ones that want villains to just be singular in their pursuit and don't get to lose.

I don't understand the appeal in making every single villain into a predictable mishmash of ethical complexity and intentional fanaticism. The concept loses its appeal if every single person whom Naruto faces is going to inevitably receive his TnJ and become an atoner.
 

actually this personal redemption thing is one of the most powerful things a good character can do against/for an evil character.To change his ways even if the life of that character ends in the next panels.There are villains that died without this realization for them.

For you perhaps. Personally I believe it's overstayed its welcome. It doesn't cause me to become emotionally invested in their character. If anything it just becomes an unoriginal annoyance that only serves to take up valuable panel time. Much like the inspirational speeches that have plagued this one fight for numerous chapters.
 

But as for the other villains the ones who happen to be paralled to Sasuke it does make sense for them to be changed somehow.

There is only feasibility and reason to it if there is an actual window for them to go through to become redeemed. Orochimaru never sought redemption, he was always motivated by his own lust for power and his aversion towards death. Even now he's only acting in Sasuke's benefit because he understands that he can't win in a direct confrontation. He admitted this himself in #593.
 

I don't know where Orochimaru's destiny will take him but as I see it he is going to have to change and accept death at one point. Half-assing it makes him a cartoonish villain were you know he will show up in the next episode with some great contraption to destroy/conquer the world.

Currently, Orochimaru's goal is to see how Sasuke responds to the events occurring around him. It's like an entertaining game to Orochimaru. If things aren't in motion then it's unappealing and so he looks for a wind to cause the proverbial windmill to spin. Sasuke happens to be that windmill now. But that doesn't mean that his intention of taking over his body has been recanted.

His goals can't be likened to something as meaningless as territorial conquest or destruction. Orochimaru looks for the quintessential aspects of life and he tries to change them into something that benefits him greatly. It's like that with his research into the prospect of immortality and learning all ninjutsu.
 

As for the other 2 Obito and Madara especially Madara helped Hashirama see his dream even if it is postmortem. His actions pushed the 5 villages to unite against a single foe.

You mean they inadvertently caused those events to happen. It wasn't their motive at the time to cause the world to become unified. The nations coming together and Hashirama's ideal of seeing the village become a sanctuary where children can grow up without fear of death were consequences of Tobi and Madara's actions.

Edited by Atheck, 28 September 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[Dkey]

 

What redeeming quality is there about Orochimaru, Kakuzu, Hidan, Deidara, Gato, the Sound 4, or any other criminals with an unexplored background?
 

I don't understand the appeal in making every single villain into a predictable mishmash of ethical complexity and intentional fanaticism. The concept loses its appeal if every single person whom Naruto faces is going to inevitably receive his TnJ and become an atoner.
 

For you perhaps. Personally I believe it's overstayed its welcome. It doesn't cause me to become emotionally invested in their character. If anything it just becomes an unoriginal annoyance that only serves to take up valuable panel time. Much like the inspirational speeches that have plagued this one fight for numerous chapters.
 

 

But if we look at the entire story, the idea that characters will be shown that what they did was wrong, and get their redemption with this realization is right now in this moment.

I agree it's an over saturation of it.

We had Nagato redeem himself, and we don't see Obito being defeated without a sort of closure for him.

As for the other villains ( Orochimaru and Madara) they can be handled without any form of closure to them. Thou even this two indicate at one. The first is afraid of death the other I'm not that sure what motivates him ( his brother mostly, but it also seems the state of the world is also a motivation for him).

So 5 characters receiving closure even thou they did what they did is too much and makes for an overused concept.

 

as for the other villains that hadn't had any background they are proof that the manga doesn't have only villains that are secretly good inside.

And as for appeal for villains there isn't really a justifiable one. Villains are universally selfish and want to accomplish their goals without caring who else is getting hurt. This is what a villain is as for the background the author can make him a greedy bastard, a dangerous sociopath or someone that had good intentions at one point but just went crazy. Sadly the last villains all had this last trait.

 

 

You mean they inadvertently caused those events to happen. It wasn't their motive at the time to cause the world to become unified. The nations coming together and Hashirama's ideal of seeing the village become a sanctuary where children can grow up without fear of death were consequences of Tobi and Madara's actions.

 

No Madara and Tobi still acted to accomplish their selfish desires. But they managed to give the entire world an opportunity to work together. And according to Hashirama this was his dream.

[Atheck]

But if we look at the entire story, the idea that characters will be shown that what they did was wrong, and get their redemption with this realization is right now in this moment.

I see nothing like that. Or least not the extent which you are emphasising it as being a quality that everyone shares. Villains were created and killed with hardly anything more than lip service provided by Kishi to give some form of exposition for their actions.

As I said before, not every villain is intended to be sympathetic or redeemable. It's natural that some people will become so accustomed to their ideals or practices that there is no to redemption for them.
 

We had Nagato redeem himself, and we don't see Obito being defeated without a sort of closure for him.

At least we agree on something here.
 

As for the other villains ( Orochimaru and Madara) they can be handled without any form of closure to them. Thou even this two indicate at one. The first is afraid of death the other I'm not that sure what motivates him ( his brother mostly, but it also seems the state of the world is also a motivation for him.

The death of his brother, his realisation of the cyclical nature of the world's carnage, and the suspicions people had of his clan for their predisposition to become resentful and antagonistic are three primary factors for Madara committing himself to the Mugen Tsukuyomi.

I can't help but think that there may have been two other motivations that were rooted in the Uchiha and Senju clans' natural hatred of each other. As well as a deep seeded fulfillment when fighting. He was always very competitive with Hashirama and even after he was resurrected he sought to amuse himself with fights that have no significance in his plans despite the fact that he could have ended them quickly with his perfected Susanoo.

I think there's a side of Madara that enjoys combat for the sheer thrill of it. In spite of all his rhetoric about how the world is an irredeemable cesspool of bloodshed and resentment, there's a part of his character who may not want to see it end so quickly. Deep down he finds the battles to be enjoyable.
 

So 5 characters receiving closure even thou they did what they did is too much and makes for an overused concept.

Which five? Nagato is understandable but Tobi has no such closure to his character and Madara doesn't appear to give a damn about anything besides achieving his own objectives and fighting Hashirama.
 

as for the other villains that hadn't had any background they are proof that the manga doesn't have only villains that are secretly good inside.

Exactly, not every villain requires an intricate backstory to make themselves appealing to the reader.
 

And as for appeal for villains there isn't really a justifiable one. Villains are universally selfish and want to accomplish their goals without caring who else is getting hurt. This is what a villain is as for the background the author can make him a greedy bastard, a dangerous sociopath or someone that had good intentions at one point but just went crazy. Sadly the last villains all had this last trait.

Just because you disagree with their intentions or methods does not mean that you can't find a particular aspect of their characters appealing. I find Kisame's misguided and desperate convictions to the Moon's Eye Plan to be appealing because it expresses the kind of individual that he is. A wandering soldier seeking truths in a world where deceit and backstabbing are common practices. It's villainous of him to support Tobi's plans but I sympathise with his personal reasons for aiding Akatsuki.
 

No Madara and Tobi still acted to accomplish their selfish desires. But they managed to give the entire world an opportunity to work together. And according to Hashirama this was his dream.

That wasn't Madara or Tobi's objectives when they became missing nin. What you're describing is a by-product of the crimes they committed. Not that they were personally invested in the idea of the nations uniting.

[Dkey]

 

The death of his brother, his realisation of the cyclical nature of the world's carnage, and the suspicions people had of his clan for their predisposition to become resentful and antagonistic are three primary factors for Madara committing himself to the Mugen Tsukuyomi.

I can't help but think that there may have been two other motivations that were rooted in the Uchiha and Senju clans' natural hatred of each other. As well as a deep seeded fulfillment when fighting. He was always very competitive with Hashirama and even after he was resurrected he sought to amuse himself with fights that have no significance in his plans despite the fact that he could have ended them quickly with his perfected Susanoo.

I think there's a side of Madara that enjoys combat for the sheer thrill of it. In spite of all his rhetoric about how the world is an irredeemable cesspool of bloodshed and resentment, there's a part of his character who may not want to see it end so quickly. Deep down he finds the battles to be enjoyable.
 

Which five? Nagato is understandable but Tobi has no such closure to his character and Madara doesn't appear to give a damn about anything besides achieving his own objectives and fighting Hashirama.
 

 

Madara is an odd ball here he doesn't seem motivated at all to carry out his plans that's why I wonder why does he even exist at this point. As for the battle action until now Obito has given his all but Madara was there only to throw some remarks and create a small drama with his trump card that was revealed to be linked to Hashi's sage mode.

 

As for the 5 I was referring.

 

Nagato, Tobi, Madara Orochimaru and Sasuke. All of them people right now think they will find some form of closure.

 

Well Nagato is a closed case but he is also the source of inspiration of how people speculate on what's gonna happen to the rest of them.

 

 

But out of all this 5 Tobi and Sasuke are the most likely. Not sure how any of this 5 will be defeated ( apart from Sasuke where it's hinted that he will be proven wrong by Naruto) but all hint at some form of understanding that Naruto can relate.

 

As for Orochimaru and Madara they could be defeated without showing remorse for what they did. Orochimaru is the character that cheats death, so if he embraces or is killed it will be his defeat. Madara is related to dreams so again if he can't see his dream happening he can also be defeated but Madara is also edo so he could get that closure that makes the edo-tensei disappear.

 

Anyway the discussion was mostly about this good traits that the villains have and even if it feels right now over used I want to see all this villains handed to say if it was just recycled character development or something more bigger.

[Atheck]

Madara is an odd ball here he doesn't seem motivated at all to carry out his plans that's why I wonder why does he even exist at this point. As for the battle action until now Obito has given his all but Madara was there only to throw some remarks and create a small drama with his trump card that was revealed to be linked to Hashi's sage mode.

Of course, unlike Tobi he can see the merits of a world that sees its population indoctrinated to fight at an early age. The carnage may be horrific but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy testing your capabilities against your deceased rival or the leaders of the five most powerful nations on the continent.
 

As for the 5 I was referring.
 
Nagato, Tobi, Madara Orochimaru and Sasuke. All of them people right now think they will find some form of closure. Well Nagato is a closed case but he is also the source of inspiration of how people speculate on what's gonna happen to the rest of them.

 
Orochimaru extinguished his own humanity decades ago. His only interests now involve gratifying and benefiting himself. Any resolution to his character will probably come in the form of acceptance for his inevitable death.

The others except possibly Madara I can't dispute because Kishi will undoubtedly have them become repentant in the near future.
 

But out of all this 5 Tobi and Sasuke are the most likely. Not sure how any of this 5 will be defeated ( apart from Sasuke where it's hinted that he will be proven wrong by Naruto) but all hint at some form of understanding that Naruto can relate.

Orochimaru and Madara's backgrounds make it difficult for Naruto to sympathise with them. They all grew up in completely different eras where the standards of the common man were drastically different than what they are in Naruto's era. Their personalities, their interests, even their goals in life are far apart from each other.

As for Orochimaru and Madara they could be defeated without showing remorse for what they did. Orochimaru is the character that cheats death, so if he embraces or is killed it will be his defeat. Madara is related to dreams so again if he can't see his dream happening he can also be defeated but Madara is also edo so he could get that closure that makes the edo-tensei disappear.

Exactly, it's in keeping with their stoicism towards the countless deaths they have committed but it's personal resolution for them in a sense to be able to acknowledge their own demise when they're killed.
 

Anyway the discussion was mostly about this good traits that the villains have and even if it feels right now over used I want to see all this villains handed to say if it was just recycled character development or something more bigger.

That's understandable.

Edited by Atheck, 28 September 2013 - 10:39 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't know what's going on here but I hope these two villains die at the same time. Honestly, eliminating only one will be dragging the story longer and I don't see it reasonable to have one done only to have another keep going. It's best to end all in one. If anything, Madara and Obito might go down Star Wars Episode 6 style if you know what I mean. When you look over, it has the pontential to be that especially since Obito can kill an Edo.

Honestly, I believe Madara has shown it all as well as Hashirama, which is why we're not seeing their fight in full fledge and just say, "It does last hours." Obito is the only one left to show new stuff but that's getting done soon enough. Also, Naruto is at his peak. You really don't think it will go on longer with Madara, do you? Personally, best end with the character that has more connections than a guy who don't. So I can only hope Kishi got this setup right.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

 

But out of all this 5 Tobi and Sasuke are the most likely. Not sure how any of this 5 will be defeated ( apart from Sasuke where it's hinted that he will be proven wrong by Naruto) but all hint at some form of understanding that Naruto can relate.

 

I'm not sure with Sasuke.  He's made it a proven point that he won't be swayed by others.  Naruto can only hope to stop him from whatever he's planning, and hope that knocks some sense into him.  If Sasuke is going to change, he'll decide by himself to do it.  Only an idiot will take the time to be patient and stop his actions until then, and fortunately for him, Naruto is that idiot.

 

I don't know what's going on here but I hope these two villains die at the same time. Honestly, eliminating only one will be dragging the story longer and I don't see it reasonable to have one done only to have another keep going. It's best to end all in one. If anything, Madara and Obito might go down Star Wars Episode 6 style if you know what I mean. When you look over, it has the pontential to be that especially since Obito can kill an Edo.

Honestly, I believe Madara has shown it all as well as Hashirama, which is why we're not seeing their fight in full fledge and just say, "It does last hours." Obito is the only one left to show new stuff but that's getting done soon enough. Also, Naruto is at his peak. You really don't think it will go on longer with Madara, do you? Personally, best end with the character that has more connections than a guy who don't. So I can only hope Kishi got this setup right.

 

I'm not going to worry about the conclusion to the fight, as long as Kishimoto stays consistent in the long run.  I have no doubts about that.  I'm still betting on inner peace with Madara.  I feel that's the only way to release his edo tensei.  We'll have to see after the Jubi is stopped and his plan fails.  I agree that it would take to long to stop Obito and then, move on to Madara.  I don't think that will happen either.  It all depends on how Obito is defeated, and how it relates to Madara.  The Moon's Eye is the key, because it is basically their hope.  If it fails, they'll lose their hope.  Who knows what will happen then,though Obito will most likely be on the ground ,because he'll most likely be defeated at the same time the Jubi is stopped..  How would they take it, if it were to fail?  What sort of acts would they do in response?

Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 28 September 2013 - 11:08 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

If Obito is the one to get TnJ, which is getting high on chance, then I can well see him taking Madara out along with him, because I can see if the plan fails, Madara will flip and probably try to take over Obito in order to do it himself, which probably hurt Obito fatally since he has senjutsu. Then Obito will kill him since he can destroy a jutsu and Madara probably die with a word to the world. Obito slowly starts dying and perhaps do that revival jutsu so at the very least, die with honor. And he dies. I don't know, you can alternate some part but this is actually a possibility and a good way. Not all villains die with a inner peace. Deidara sure came back without any. Madara is pretty much what all have been said, a shell. Another problem is that no one has talk to him about hope in the present, because he's already done that and he's pretty much a shell at that point. It's like trying to make a robot cry, it just won't come out. I just hope no more dragging.

[Mistraal]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Sakura watched Grandma Chiyo use her jutsu to swap her life for Gaara's. What are the odds of Sakura doing the same thing for Shikamaru?

Edited by Mistraal, 28 September 2013 - 11:17 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Sakura watched Grandma Chiyo use her jutsu to swap her life for Gaara's. What are the odds of Sakura doing the same thing for Shikamaru?

I can see her doing it partially. Not the complete thing. Then she'll die. That said I can see that as a huge foreshadowing. But who knows if she has that.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

If Obito is the one to get TnJ, which is getting high on chance, then I can well see him taking Madara out along with him, because I can see if the plan fails, Madara will flip and probably try to take over Obito in order to do it himself, which probably hurt Obito fatally since he has senjutsu. Then Obito will kill him since he can destroy a jutsu and Madara probably die with a word to the world. Obito slowly starts dying and perhaps do that revival jutsu so at the very least, die with honor. And he dies. I don't know, you can alternate some part but this is actually a possibility and a good way. Not all villains die with a inner peace. Deidara sure came back without any. Madara is pretty much what all have been said, a shell. Another problem is that no one has talk to him about hope in the present, because he's already done that and he's pretty much a shell at that point. It's like trying to make a robot cry, it just won't come out. I just hope no more dragging.

 

I only say that because there are fairly few options.  Also, if anyone were to gain inner peace, why not Madara, who suffered in the same ninja era as Hashirama.  If Obito were to attack Madara, for example, when Madara tries to play his trump, I'm inclined to believe Madara will succeed.  I accept that I'm being biased in that regard.  I could also see Obito maybe fight back in the climax of the Moons Eye out of pride of not letting Madara do the genjutsu instead of him.  If this happens, I can think of a few ways to defeat him then.  For example, if Madara has Obito imprisoned or controlled, Naruto could free him.  Then, Obito kills Madara, and Naruto defeats Obito, while Shinobi Alliance stops the God tree.

 

Off topic:  What happened to your other sig?  You're sig has been erased for a few days now.  I see you have your RTN one to replace it.

Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 29 September 2013 - 12:53 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I know what you mean. I just hope it ends with the right character.

 

As for my sig, I don't know. The photobucket issue stuff. So yeah, no good on me. I have no choice.

[sushi.]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Sakura watched Grandma Chiyo use her jutsu to swap her life for Gaara's. What are the odds of Sakura doing the same thing for Shikamaru?

I wouldn't like it, for the sake of the plot.

 

If Sakura is going to sacrifice herself, it must be someone more important than Shikamaru. It must be someone that they can't afford losing, one that is central in this war, one like Naruto.

 

Of course, I think she would go that far, as a person. But I don't think and hope Kishi will write her character to do it. That event must be spared for something really big, it can only be used once after all.

[StriderC]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Sakura watched Grandma Chiyo use her jutsu to swap her life for Gaara's. What are the odds of Sakura doing the same thing for Shikamaru?

If she did that, we'd fall back to what Chiyo said back when she gave her farewell to Sakura and Naruto. Shikamaru isn't someone I would consider precious. IMO, people like Tsunade, Ino, Shizune and of course Naruto would be precious. I do feel like Ino one ups the other rookie 9.

But if she uses it on anyone, it'd likely be Naruto. I feel Karin could save Shikamaru by letting him bite her. That'd be more effective.

Edited by StriderC, 29 September 2013 - 03:25 AM.

[coolcatjas]

If she did that, we'd fall back to what Chiyo said back when she gave her farewell to Sakura and Naruto. Shikamaru isn't someone I would consider precious. IMO, people like Tsunade, Ino, Shizune and of course Naruto would be precious. I do feel like Ino one ups the other rookie 9.

But if she uses it on anyone, it'd likely be Naruto. I feel Karin could save Shikamaru by letting him bite her. That'd be more effective.

Then the Naruto fandom will say Sakura is useless even with the seal and that Karin is the better medic. But what else is new, I guess

[Shadow1275]

If she did that, we'd fall back to what Chiyo said back when she gave her farewell to Sakura and Naruto. Shikamaru isn't someone I would consider precious. IMO, people like Tsunade, Ino, Shizune and of course Naruto would be precious. I do feel like Ino one ups the other rookie 9.

But if she uses it on anyone, it'd likely be Naruto. I feel Karin could save Shikamaru by letting him bite her. That'd be more effective.

Agreed, my guess is that if Kishi does take that route Naruto will have Kurama taken from him and Sakura will think that he is dead cause of what Chiyo told her about jinchurriki. However, what she doesn't know is that Uzumaki's can survive having a jinchuriki taken away from them, and Naruto will still survive, maybe even a potential confession from Sakura or Naruto.