514 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

Thank you.



I agree with you about this chapter, but we still have fans looking at it in ways that are not meant to be seen and it's getting hard to see where the problem is. Is it the fans seeing it the wrong way or is it a product of bad writing? The chapter itself may not be bad writing, but given that some chapters were rushed and pushed out the door with these weird occurrences that has made chapters like this one now to be taken wrong. Even among us NS fans, some of us think this is one more Hinata panel and attention wh---ing or Hinata being the bigger heroic or the third being how me and you see it. (And anyone who agrees too.)

It's just getting...out of hand at times because you don't know where the problem really is half the time and eventually you realize everyone is to blame. It has really come to a point where I wish Kishi would just play straight for once because it is getting out of hand.



Yeah I see what you mean. Still it just proves how it is not what you do, but how you execute it. How is it set up and compare to previous chapters? This is why Sakura makes a huge impact on Naruto and not so much for Hinata as you pointed out. So in theory you could repeat the same exact scene like the Pein arc, but because you replace Pein with Sasuke and Hinata with Sakura...it could make the entire moment that much more impactful.

Let's just hope Kishi doesn't screw up or miss out on that opportunity yeah?

I agree with the interpretation by the fans. It's bad that there are some that jumps to the conclusion right away without any proof of evidence of one character being different than before. 615 was the chapter that many has come out of the closet and expose themselves. We exposed ourselves of being too invested in pairings and/or have little-to-no faith to NS, while NH exposed themselves that without waiting for the end or finalized evidence, you can still shove the world that it's canon. Not everyone are like this, but there's sure many of them that I encountered in here. It was to the point that general fans finally reach to the point that pairing pissed them off. As for me, it died out when people are seriously taking it hard without looking back again to see how it was setup.

I blame timing because if Kishi timed it right, as in actually care about side characters for developments, then Hinata wouldn't be overblown as people may say, even though looking at the bigger picture, she's just near the league of Team 10. That's the truth. Kishi most likely already know that she is popular to the fans, so knowing that this arc will be the last for side characters, why not conclude them. They have no room for Team 7 dynamic development, so best to shine them before saying goodbye. Let's be honest, going through part 2 again, he really had no reason to shine them any further, but they are characters who people like, so bring them over. To his credit, at least he managed to bring in the good timing. Like searching for Itachi, why not use Team 8 since they can track down. Does it mean they get developments? No, but at least they were there, much like Team Gai, who only Gai got to do work, but that's only because the feud already happened in part 1.

Well, you can but it must be relevant to both hero and villain. Hinata did only to fuel Naruto to KN6, but Pain is like "Yup, I did that." That said anyone can fill in the spot, but why Hinata? Because it fits to the theme of the arc as well as setting up for her development. If Sakura gets both the hero and the villain the effect, like with words and actions, then it leaves more of an impact than others because it leaves progress to both of them, especially making the villain going forward. If it happens to Sasuke, it won't be pairing related, but rather how Team 7 still cares for him, whether Sasuke accepts it or not, it's still moving forward with Naruto making a point and what not. Well, the opportunity is there, but it could happen anytime. We don't know.

[James S Cassidy]

I agree with the interpretation by the fans. It's bad that there are some that jumps to the conclusion right away without any proof of evidence of one character being different than before. 615 was the chapter that many has come out of the closet and expose themselves. We exposed ourselves of being too invested in pairings and/or have little-to-no faith to NS, while NH exposed themselves that without waiting for the end or finalized evidence, you can still shove the world that it's canon. Not everyone are like this, but there's sure many of them that I encountered in here. It was to the point that general fans finally reach to the point that pairing pissed them off. As for me, it died out when people are seriously taking it hard without looking back again to see how it was setup.

I blame timing because if Kishi timed it right, as in actually care about side characters for developments, then Hinata wouldn't be overblown as people may say, even though looking at the bigger picture, she's just near the league of Team 10. That's the truth. Kishi most likely already know that she is popular to the fans, so knowing that this arc will be the last for side characters, why not conclude them. They have no room for Team 7 dynamic development, so best to shine them before saying goodbye. Let's be honest, going through part 2 again, he really had no reason to shine them any further, but they are characters who people like, so bring them over. To his credit, at least he managed to bring in the good timing. Like searching for Itachi, why not use Team 8 since they can track down. Does it mean they get developments? No, but at least they were there, much like Team Gai, who only Gai got to do work, but that's only because the feud already happened in part 1.

Lol, I have to admit I realized I was really committed to the pairing when 615 came out. It kind of opened my eyes when I realized that the pairing choice was getting more important to me than the actual plot itself. This is why I am a bit more lax now about Hinata showing up. Unless a specific kind of reaction or plot device changes something, it really isn't worth getting worked up over.

Well, you can but it must be relevant to both hero and villain. Hinata did only to fuel Naruto to KN6, but Pain is like "Yup, I did that." That said anyone can fill in the spot, but why Hinata? Because it fits to the theme of the arc as well as setting up for her development. If Sakura gets both the hero and the villain the effect, like with words and actions, then it leaves more of an impact than others because it leaves progress to both of them, especially making the villain going forward. If it happens to Sasuke, it won't be pairing related, but rather how Team 7 still cares for him, whether Sasuke accepts it or not, it's still moving forward with Naruto making a point and what not. Well, the opportunity is there, but it could happen anytime. We don't know.

Or you could do both in one swoop. I don't know why it has to be relevant to Sasuke unless you want it to fuel the redemption aspect of it which then it can applied to him, but you can also make it pairing related. Again, seeing how the manga is being written and how no pairing will come to pass until after Sasuke is dealt with, this would seem like the case to me. To be honest and again looking at how it has been written, if NS happened after Sasuke was dealt with and Naruto automatically believes her this time, I would question why he didn't believe her last time while this time he did. I'll follow with the "Sakura kind of has to prove it," but it kind of has to stick to that path now seeing how things went with Sakura's confession and Naruto denying it.

What's the term for that? Ummm...not plot armor, but it is similar. You know when something happens not because it a great story element, but that it needed to happen that way for plot? Like characters not dying due to plot armor and such.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 May 2013 - 04:57 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Lol, I have to admit I realized I was really committed to the pairing when 615 came out. It kind of opened my eyes when I realized that the pairing choice was getting more important to me than the actual plot itself. This is why I am a bit more lax now about Hinata showing up. Unless a specific kind of reaction or plot device changes something, it really isn't worth getting worked up over.



Or you could do both in one swoop. I don't know why it has to be relevant to Sasuke unless you want it to fuel the redemption aspect of it which then it can applied to him, but you can also make it pairing related. Again, seeing how the manga is being written and how no pairing will come to pass until after Sasuke is dealt with, this would seem like the case to me. To be honest and again looking at how it has been written, if NS happened after Sasuke was dealt with and Naruto automatically believes her this time, I would question why he didn't believe her last time while this time he did. I'll follow with the "Sakura kind of has to prove it," but it kind of has to stick to that path now seeing how things went with Sakura's confession and Naruto denying it.

What's the term for that? Ummm...not plot armor, but it is similar. You know when something happens not because it a great story element, but that it needed to happen that way for plot? Like characters not dying due to plot armor and such.

I don't know, I feel like pairing becomes important when the plot asks for it, much like how people believe that Obito will see Sakura as Rin. That helps for both pairing and plot. Hinata's part is seen as her moment and a fanservice. I think it happens a lot to manga with the one that are not destined to be canon, but why not please the fans for one last run. That's how I see it in NH. Maybe if they ended with them, then it's a different situation, but lately, going back, NS seems to be the one to close the arcs when it's about Naruto. Strange no?

Well, it doesn't need to be Sasuke, but I am only saying it by going with your last post. It can be anyone, so long it makes the plot progress and/or something. I don't know the name of it, but it's similar to movie elements. In movies, especially romance, when they get into argument and/or something happens to break them apart, you know they will get back together, one way or another. Or other movies, the lying reveal moment, where the main character's secret is revealed, so things get messy, but in the end, it's all good. It's not that I don't like them, just need to be done right. It's funny because I always saw How to Train Your Dragon as an example of already done story done right. You feel like it's first time you seen this story, yet it's not new, so why we think it is. It's because it was done really well. Naruto is on the verge of doing it right or doing it wrong. That's my main fear right now.

[James S Cassidy]

I don't know, I feel like pairing becomes important when the plot asks for it, much like how people believe that Obito will see Sakura as Rin. That helps for both pairing and plot. Hinata's part is seen as her moment and a fanservice. I think it happens a lot to manga with the one that are not destined to be canon, but why not please the fans for one last run. That's how I see it in NH. Maybe if they ended with them, then it's a different situation, but lately, going back, NS seems to be the one to close the arcs when it's about Naruto. Strange no?

I understand that, but...ehhh...alright, let me try to explain. We know Naruto is NOT a Harem manga and it's sole story is not focus mainly around love like a harem manga. While it is apart of it, it is not really the main story focus. That being said, some of these moments do play out like Naruto is a harem and Kishi sometimes gives that confusion with some over the top romantic scenes especially when it comes to Hinata. It is not as often as I am making it out to be, but when it does happen it leaves either people getting the wrong impression or scratching their head. This does become a problem at times especially for this manga. When the romance is subtle, it works and it works well, but when it is overblown it tends to be really overblown.

I mean at times it feels like Kishi is saying "This is not a harem manga," but does things that might be in a harem manga.

As for doing it for the fans, well when do the fans really know what they want? I think Nostalgia Critic said it best: "Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe people don't know what is best for them and by continually giving them the same crap they will never know what is different so they will keep asking for the same crap?"

All I am basically saying is that writers or media artist of any kind need to be weary about what fans want. If NH is not supposed to be the canon pairing, wouldn't it be easier for the fans to accept this if Kishi stopped throwing these red herrings at times? It's not a good thing to "give the fans a last hooray" because you then leave the fanbase wanting more and crying foul when they don't get it. So then you have to give them more to shut them up, but this again feeds more into what they want to see rather than letting Kishi write the story the way it was intended. It really comes down to the point that if you forever take advice from the fan base then the story will not turn out good.

There have been many manga where there are fans of a pairing that had little to no indication to them, but people watched anyway or bought it. When does the pairing war interfere with the manga? You have to be very careful when it comes to these kind of things.

Well, it doesn't need to be Sasuke, but I am only saying it by going with your last post. It can be anyone, so long it makes the plot progress and/or something. I don't know the name of it, but it's similar to movie elements. In movies, especially romance, when they get into argument and/or something happens to break them apart, you know they will get back together, one way or another. Or other movies, the lying reveal moment, where the main character's secret is revealed, so things get messy, but in the end, it's all good. It's not that I don't like them, just need to be done right. It's funny because I always saw How to Train Your Dragon as an example of already done story done right. You feel like it's first time you seen this story, yet it's not new, so why we think it is. It's because it was done really well. Naruto is on the verge of doing it right or doing it wrong. That's my main fear right now.

Yeah that's my fear too.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I understand that, but...ehhh...alright, let me try to explain. We know Naruto is NOT a Harem manga and it's sole story is not focus mainly around love like a harem manga. While it is apart of it, it is not really the main story focus. That being said, some of these moments do play out like Naruto is a harem and Kishi sometimes gives that confusion with some over the top romantic scenes especially when it comes to Hinata. It is not as often as I am making it out to be, but when it does happen it leaves either people getting the wrong impression or scratching their head. This does become a problem at times especially for this manga. When the romance is subtle, it works and it works well, but when it is overblown it tends to be really overblown.

I mean at times it feels like Kishi is saying "This is not a harem manga," but does things that might be in a harem manga.

As for doing it for the fans, well when do the fans really know what they want? I think Nostalgia Critic said it best: "Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe people don't know what is best for them and by continually giving them the same crap they will never know what is different so they will keep asking for the same crap?"

All I am basically saying is that writers or media artist of any kind need to be weary about what fans want. If NH is not supposed to be the canon pairing, wouldn't it be easier for the fans to accept this if Kishi stopped throwing these red herrings at times? It's not a good thing to "give the fans a last hooray" because you then leave the fanbase wanting more and crying foul when they don't get it. So then you have to give them more to shut them up, but this again feeds more into what they want to see rather than letting Kishi write the story the way it was intended. It really comes down to the point that if you forever take advice from the fan base then the story will not turn out good.

There have been many manga where there are fans of a pairing that had little to no indication to them, but people watched anyway or bought it. When does the pairing war interfere with the manga? You have to be very careful when it comes to these kind of things.



Yeah that's my fear too.

Yeah, ok, now I see what you mean. To me, once a NS moment happens, then everyone would just accept it that it's always meant to be and enjoy the manga for what it is. Sadly, some will still go uproar. I think the reason why people are so invested in now is because everyone thinks timing is on their side and they sees Sakura's confession as one of those climax moment where the main character got the wrong love interest. The problem is he never said that at all nor show any indication. First, the main character is supposed to get more intimate with another girl, but that never happen for Naruto. What's worse is that Sakura continues to get closer rather than further, so there's no problem. Pretty much pairing fan is putting it all to this arc. I short, all or nothing.

Still, I wish people focus on the story, not on the pairing, especially when it's not asking for it. Sakura's confession is a mix of all things of the plot: character developments, plot related, and pairing development. Hinata's confession was more of hers and excuse to cause KN6 to happen. Anyway, I'll accept pairing being important to plot when it really put it that way by Kishi. Yes, I wish Kishi can straight out say it but I guess that's the journey...

Yeah, I'm worried about that. Get strike out or hit a home run.

[James S Cassidy]

Yeah, ok, now I see what you mean. To me, once a NS moment happens, then everyone would just accept it that it's always meant to be and enjoy the manga for what it is. Sadly, some will still go uproar. I think the reason why people are so invested in now is because everyone thinks timing is on their side and they sees Sakura's confession as one of those climax moment where the main character got the wrong love interest. The problem is he never said that at all nor show any indication. First, the main character is supposed to get more intimate with another girl, but that never happen for Naruto. What's worse is that Sakura continues to get closer rather than further, so there's no problem. Pretty much pairing fan is putting it all to this arc. I short, all or nothing.

Still, I wish people focus on the story, not on the pairing, especially when it's not asking for it. Sakura's confession is a mix of all things of the plot: character developments, plot related, and pairing development. Hinata's confession was more of hers and excuse to cause KN6 to happen. Anyway, I'll accept pairing being important to plot when it really put it that way by Kishi. Yes, I wish Kishi can straight out say it but I guess that's the journey...

Yeah, I'm worried about that. Get strike out or hit a home run.

I just hope Kishi knows what he is doing.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I just hope Kishi knows what he is doing.

Same here. Good talk.

[AzureWaters]

Point blank, most are bothered by Hinata's panel time because they believe she's being shown in order to reinforce/advance NaruHina. Especially after 615. There's a mix of indignity on Sakura's behalf because she's not leading, but the former reason mostly influences the strong reactions when there's a chapter featuring her.

I'd like to say that it's all for character development with the Hyuuga clan, but the absence of issues revolving them or simply their prescence says otherwise. The best thing to say is that Kishimoto's developing her out of her shy exterior, but even that's being shed based on her romantic inclinations to the main character.


I'm not exactly sure yet what's being done with Sakura. It looks like Kishi's showing her because of her absence in the prior chapters, which is why she's stated concern for Naruto based on his sharing chakra when it should have been added during the initial distribution. Its good to see that he's making a point of giving her some panels with Naruto, but she still hasn't had the proper emphasis yet. Maybe that will change in future chapters, but right now not a lot can go down besides the arrival of Sasuke and co. There's an opporunity if Madara's shown wreaking the alliance, but once again Hinata seems to be leading that and she may keep some spotlight.

Once Naruto is done being healed it's likely he'll get right back up and face Madara, with less than steller results.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Point blank, most are bothered by Hinata's panel time because they believe she's being shown in order to reinforce/advance NaruHina. Especially after 615. There's a mix of indignity on Sakura's behalf because she's not leading, but the former reason mostly influences the strong reactions when there's a chapter featuring her.

I'd like to say that it's all for character development with the Hyuuga clan, but the absence of issues revolving them or simply their prescence says otherwise. The best thing to say is that Kishimoto's developing her out of her shy exterior, but even that's being shed based on her romantic inclinations to the main character.


I'm not exactly sure yet what's being done with Sakura. It looks like Kishi's showing her because of her absence in the prior chapters, which is why she's stated concern for Naruto based on his sharing chakra when it should have been added during the initial distribution. Its good to see that he's making a point of giving her some panels with Naruto, but she still hasn't had the proper emphasis yet. Maybe that will change in future chapters, but right now not a lot can go down besides the arrival of Sasuke and co. There's an opporunity if Madara's shown wreaking the alliance, but once again Hinata seems to be leading that and she may keep some spotlight.

Once Naruto is done being healed it's likely he'll get right back up and face Madara, with less than steller results.

Inst being discussed here the fact that this is happening without proper development it has nothing to do with NaruHina she's getting close to the team 10 mindset but what is bothering is the absence of development.

[HauntedCake]

As for doing it for the fans, well when do the fans really know what they want? I think Nostalgia Critic said it best: "Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe people don't know what is best for them and by continually giving them the same crap they will never know what is different so they will keep asking for the same crap?"

All I am basically saying is that writers or media artist of any kind need to be weary about what fans want. If NH is not supposed to be the canon pairing, wouldn't it be easier for the fans to accept this if Kishi stopped throwing these red herrings at times? It's not a good thing to "give the fans a last hooray" because you then leave the fanbase wanting more and crying foul when they don't get it. So then you have to give them more to shut them up, but this again feeds more into what they want to see rather than letting Kishi write the story the way it was intended. It really comes down to the point that if you forever take advice from the fan base then the story will not turn out good.

This.

Bolded: Isn't this applicable to all pairings atm?

[TouKen4Life3g]

Point blank, most are bothered by Hinata's panel time because they believe she's being shown in order to reinforce/advance NaruHina. Especially after 615. There's a mix of indignity on Sakura's behalf because she's not leading, but the former reason mostly influences the strong reactions when there's a chapter featuring her.

I'd like to say that it's all for character development with the Hyuuga clan, but the absence of issues revolving them or simply their prescence says otherwise. The best thing to say is that Kishimoto's developing her out of her shy exterior, but even that's being shed based on her romantic inclinations to the main character.


I'm not exactly sure yet what's being done with Sakura. It looks like Kishi's showing her because of her absence in the prior chapters, which is why she's stated concern for Naruto based on his sharing chakra when it should have been added during the initial distribution. Its good to see that he's making a point of giving her some panels with Naruto, but she still hasn't had the proper emphasis yet. Maybe that will change in future chapters, but right now not a lot can go down besides the arrival of Sasuke and co. There's an opporunity if Madara's shown wreaking the alliance, but once again Hinata seems to be leading that and she may keep some spotlight.

Once Naruto is done being healed it's likely he'll get right back up and face Madara, with less than steller results.

It depends where Madara goes next. We have said that Madara has no interest in Naruto. While he established his strength, it doesn't mean he has problems with him as in something they want to fight against. If anything, Naruto will continue to hold off Juubi for a while and Sasuke and Hashirama will take care of Madara. The reason why I place Sasuke is because these two must confront, making past vs present more serious and meaningful. Again, Sasuke has been center around Madara since his first arrival in part 2, which probably set it up as his last boss battle before Naruto. The alliance is already weaken, so who's going to hold off Juubi? Kages sure, but Juubi is just unstoppable until someone seals it. So yeah, the direction for me until something happens with Obito/Kakashi, Naruto (with Sakura) deals with Juubi, while Sasuke deals with Madara.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 09 May 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[AzureWaters]

Inst being discussed here the fact that this is happening without proper development it has nothing to do with NaruHina

I think the complaints about her apperances are mostly due to that-- the belief that Hinata's usurping Sakura and appearing more often to assert that she's the girl for Naruto. It isn't only prevelant with NaruHina fans but in this fandom as well, although with little direct admission. For instance I doubt we'd argue so much if Ino had similar screentime with Naruto, because she has no connection to our pairing and cannot influence it one way or the other.

she's getting close to the team 10 mindset but what is bothering is the absence of development.

Clarify what you mean by Team 10 mindset.

Her development is being shown now with the attitude change, and her confident persona.

[James S Cassidy]

This.

Bolded: Isn't this applicable to all pairings atm?

It could, but remember that the supposed "NH development" has only been happening recently meanwhile we have NS development happening since part 1. This is why I feel this applies more to NH than it does NS.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It could, but remember that the supposed "NH development" has only been happening recently meanwhile we have NS development happening since part 1. This is why I feel this applies more to NH than it does NS.

I agree. That's why it feels like a left field if NH happens because we never established that. People may start thinking that once Hinata said she loves him, but many side characters usually says it and never win to begin with. It's better to say it than never. Still, due to this manga being DBZ popular of today, people don't get the idea of how story truly works. I guess that's why Kishi has a hard time to write while pleasing, which is sad because it can be damaging in the long run.

[HauntedCake]

It could, but remember that the supposed "NH development" has only been happening recently meanwhile we have NS development happening since part 1. This is why I feel this applies more to NH than it does NS.

Agreed

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I think the complaints about her apperances are mostly due to that-- the belief that Hinata's usurping Sakura and appearing more often to assert that she's the girl for Naruto. It isn't only prevelant with NaruHina fans but in this fandom as well, although with little direct admission. For instance I doubt we'd argue so much if Ino had similar screentime with Naruto, because she has no connection to our pairing and cannot influence it one way or the other.

Ofc Ino had panels and flashbacks but nothing related with pairings, despite holding her ground when it comes to Sasuke but still she had development, there was flashbacks and a purpose to her life.
With Hinata we had none, neither development for her to able to give a speech like that and neither development to become a leader she just got portraited as it is and nothing else.
No development nothing.

Clarify what you mean by Team 10 mindset.

Her development is being shown now with the attitude change, and her confident persona.

Growing up maturing, assuming responsabilities, We see Chouji fighting against his former teacher and won then he became a leader because he was able to inspire his comrades.
With Hinata just got say "everyone together" with a expression of someome who had matured when on the reality we had none, or better not even clues.
The problem it that Hinata didnt got development it's another stuff that i doesnt know how to name but srsly it's not development.

On Pain's arc we had a filler guy doing the job that Hinata was supposed to do, on the war arc before the alliance arrival( and even during the fight with the juubi until this chapter) we had Neji and this guy again doing her job.(while she was just thinking of Naruto).

It all could be avoided if Kishimoto did the same thing with her like he did with other characters, inserting some flashback pages between her and Neji, but no he made it seem worse that Neji didnt give her development and much worse making it seems that Neji wasnt so important to her life despite being her cousin.

It could, but remember that the supposed "NH development" has only been happening recently meanwhile we have NS development happening since part 1. This is why I feel this applies more to NH than it does NS.

Agreed.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 09 May 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[Verilance]

I have said many times people see what they want to see, If you see Naruhina for example, it is not Kishimoto's fault but yours for interpreting things that are not in the manga. Hinata's story has always been about her regaining her rightful place as the Hyuuga clan's heir this chapter is just another stepdown that road.

bought Volume 61 today btw, some good hints in there about how the war will end and Sasuke and Naruto's role in it.

Am quite excited for it now, Kishimoto is a far better writer than some here give him credit for it just if you go week to week you miss the forest for the trees

[TouKen4Life3g]

I have said many times people see what they want to see, If you see Naruhina for example, it is not Kishimoto's fault but yours for interpreting things that are not in the manga. Hinata's story has always been about her regaining her rightful place as the Hyuuga clan's heir this chapter is just another stepdown that road.

bought Volume 61 today btw, some good hints in there about how the war will end and Sasuke and Naruto's role in it.

Am quite excited for it now, Kishimoto is a far better writer than some here give him credit for it just if you go week to week you miss the forest for the trees

I admit, I'm in the stage that NH is just in our minds, while the real deal is really the love triangle in Team 7, though because of that, the outcome is obvious. That said it's about the journey to the conclusion that will make it great or not. Feel free to read back what I have said in here between me and James.

I haven't enter to that stage of "bad writing" but I will admit that I don't remember much of this arc because it lasted so long and the focus kept shifting until day 2 of the war. I will reread it once this arc ends.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I have said many times people see what they want to see, If you see Naruhina for example, it is not Kishimoto's fault but yours for interpreting things that are not in the manga. Hinata's story has always been about her regaining her rightful place as the Hyuuga clan's heir this chapter is just another stepdown that road.

bought Volume 61 today btw, some good hints in there about how the war will end and Sasuke and Naruto's role in it.

Am quite excited for it now, Kishimoto is a far better writer than some here give him credit for it just if you go week to week you miss the forest for the trees

Oookay then Naruto saying that Hinata is strong is enough development for her to become a leader of her clan and give a speech to Naruto.
Her development should be as you pointed out but always become to Naruto-kun, she didnt had any kind of actions that would justify to become a leader of her clan.

I remember all moments of Hinata on both part 1 and part 2 i can easily say she has development to be anything minus leader of her clan.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 09 May 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I admit, I'm in the stage that NH is just in our minds, while the real deal is really the love triangle in Team 7, though because of that, the outcome is obvious. That said it's about the journey to the conclusion that will make it great or not. Feel free to read back what I have said in here between me and James.

I haven't enter to that stage of "bad writing" but I will admit that I don't remember much of this arc because it lasted so long and the focus kept shifting until day 2 of the war. I will reread it once this arc ends.

Can I ask you something NaruSaku4life3g? Do you just agree with everybody or do you actually feel a difference of opinion? I mean, well I hate to assume something, but I hardly ever see you disagree with people and it seems like whenever there is this opinion of "Writer vs Fan" you seem to take both sides yet you don't take either at the same time. In one topic you seem to agree that Kishi fuels the fire and sometimes forces or rushes things, but here you make it seem like you agree that it is just fan reaction and not Kishi's fault at all.

So, what do you really feel on this? I mean no offense, but I am not sure where you stand on your views anymore about this topic. I thought you were like me and feel like it is a little bit of both, but now I am not so sure.

Mind clarifying on your views of the entire aspect?

@verliance

I always believe the fans have a really active imagination, but I don't think it is wrong to think that Kishi might fuel these debates at times. Given when we have scenes like the Pein arc confession and chapter 615, you have to wonder what is a by product of what we want to what we want to see and what is Kishi actually giving. It is a hard to tell the difference.

Give the example you gave with Hinata's growth to leadership. There hasn't been much talk about this in the manga at all except in random spurts in part 1 during the tournament and what is happening recently. Everything else literally has been about her and what she wants with Naruto. Even in Hinata's own mind she has not shown any concern for being the leader of her clan. Do you really think what she thought in chapter 573 was about her being a leader to her clan? I don't know how to interpret that scene any way other than "supposed NH development."

I can't really say chapter 615 is "her being stronger for her clan." This chapter yeah, but that chapter I can't find anything clan related in her thoughts. In previous chapters it never seemed to cross her mind or we got no mention of it in her depictions whenever Kishi showed her off. All she ever thought about was Naruto.

If Kishi really wanted to he could have done it and showed Hinata growing to be the leader through out the entire manga if even in little spurts. However, for most of the chapters Hinata has been nothing, but being depicted of fangirling over Naruto. It would not surprise me if this is why the fans see nothing else when something different does happen. I hope my point is coming across okay.

Yeah it is bad that fans only see NH scenes when she is on screen, but I feel this is somewhat Kishi's fault because he hasn't really depicted Hinata doing anything else besides fangirling over Naruto.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 May 2013 - 10:06 PM.