505 replies to this topic

[redragon88]

^ To further clarify, I don't believe Sasuke will do some love confession to Karin or something like that. That would just feel ridiculously weird.

I just think that in some way or another he'll have resolution with Karin. Maybe Karin will still be mad at Sasuke at the end of the manga, but I do believe we could get a small hint that from then on things will be for the better between them. Little by little.

[kirabook]

It's not that I don't see Sasuke being redeemed and maybe getting with someone in the end. Sasuke's possible redemption is shoved in our face almost every chapter, it's going to happen (the romance is highly debatable though and I think he will be alone and asexual). I just don't find it acceptable at all (manga or IRL) and I will never like the fact that someone like him can still have people who love and admire him after all the crap he did. That is all. For the entire series he's been a huge jerk (save a few months where he actually cared about Sakura and Naruto), yet they forgive him so easily. Just disappointing.

[luffyq1]

It's not that I don't see Sasuke being redeemed and maybe getting with someone in the end. Sasuke's possible redemption is shoved in our face almost every chapter, it's going to happen (the romance is highly debatable though and I think he will be alone and asexual). I just don't find it acceptable at all (manga or IRL) and I will never like the fact that someone like him can still have people who love and admire him after all the crap he did. That is all. For the entire series he's been a huge jerk (save a few months where he actually cared about Sakura and Naruto), yet they forgive him so easily. Just disappointing.

I tend to not think when I'm reading Naruto. Best. Thing. Ever.

[redragon88]

So we're talking about Sasukarin again?
I really can't understand this ship. Their "relationship" is just so shallow and reminds me a hell lot of SS in part 1. And I believe it's a bit of a hypocricy when fans wait for their interactions and acually have faith in them being canon while they say that SS is dead and impossible to happen and that "It would ruin sakura's character" yet it won't do the same for karin.

SK is not a clone of SS, that's a huge misconception. Karin definitely doesn't act the same way Sakura does with Sasuke. Karin is able to speak her mind and criticize Sasuke when she doesn't agree with his whims. She has even called him an idiot and a weakling.

The reason it's said that Sakura's character will be ruined is because she never gave indication of acting like herself when she's with Sasuke. She represses her personality, and that's the part people dislike about her love for Sasuke. It brings her down, even in Part 1. On the other hand, Karin never compromises who she is just to gain Sasuke's favor.

For example, I believe that just after they recruited Karin and when to look for Juugo that Sasuke asked Karin if she could sense any presences. I think Karin then told him to shut up and let her focus. Now, do you think Sakura would do the same in her place? I really don't think so. Sakura would probably apologize and say she'll try harder, she'll blame herself for Sasuke's rudeness. Karin blames only Sasuke for his rudeness.

Still, as I said before, the only problem I have with SS happening is that it would mean NS doesn't happen, and I believe NS will happen because of my understanding of the story. Naruto and Sakura ending up with other people besides each other would feel like the story deceived me. To me it would feel the same as Naruto saying that he isn't interested in becoming Hokage anymore.

[luffyq1]

Sasuke tried to kill both girls in a very cruel way. That's good enough reason for me to feel disgusted from SS & SK.

Edited by luffyq1, 08 February 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Sasuke tried to kill both girls in a very cruel way. That's good enough reason for me to feel disgusted from SS & SK.

Yep.

Wait, are we back to talking about SK again?

[redragon88]

And sasuke never really did hurt sakura physically. He intended to but he was stopped by kakashi first and then by naruto. It makes me think a bit positively about team 7 later. But he did hurt karin!

So Sasuke's relationship with Sakura will be better because he didn't land a hit? I disagree.

Both the attacks towards Sakura and Karin were of the same level. Sakura was simply luckier to get out of it unharmed.

[luffyq1]

Yep.

Wait, are we back to talking about SK again?

Looks like it

[redragon88]

Sasuke tried to kill both girls in a very cruel way. That's good enough reason for me to feel disgusted from SS & SK.

True. But the logic in the Naruto world demands forgiveness. If I lived there I'm sure I could get away with so many things just by saying I love too much.

[T XD]

The thing with SK is that it needs a big push especially after Sasuke tried to killed her. However, SK have some basis and one of it is that 619 provided a probable fact. Though, If Kishimoto ever wanted to make SK, than, at the very least, Karin will need to get some explanation on the attempt of Sasuke trying to kill her, and there has to be some convincing ways from Kishi to establish this relationship especially after how Sasuke treated her.

There's an opportunity for SK, but that big push will be seen if it were to happen after their reunion and afterwards. And that is going to be a challenge for Kishi cause Karin will reunite with Sasuke and co., and Karin won't just walk to them merrily and says " Heys guys XD ". We all know that. She got to take a stand with Sasuke or else her strong character will be somewhat diminished.

I doubt that Sasuke will be with someone, but if Kishi wants to give SK a chance then he better buckles up for this.

Edited by T XD, 08 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[sushi.]

So Sasuke's relationship with Sakura will be better because he didn't land a hit? I disagree.

Both the attacks towards Sakura and Karin were of the same level. Sakura was simply luckier to get out of it unharmed.

I agree. The best argument against this is that Karin's experience was more traumatic. But let's not forget how much damage Sasuke caused Sakura's heart, mental violence is just as bad as physical violence.

If there is one thing I would've rewritten in the series, is that Sasuke should've been nicer to his teammates. Or what I prefer is that he warmed up to them(to some extent, but I Sasuke's care for his teammates could only be seen through his eyes.) Because then they have someone to fight for, someone they should miss.

[luffyq1]

True. But the logic in the Naruto world demands forgiveness. If I lived there I'm sure I could get away with so many things just by saying I love too much.

And that's why Narutoverse logic makes everything less enjoyable. Well to me that is.

[candycane-chan]

SK is not a clone of SS

i never said it was a clone of SS but it reminds of SS because both girls fall in love with the cold hearted, cool guy who stabs them in the back.

the reason it's said that Sakura's character will be ruined is because she never gave indication of acting like herself when she's with Sasuke. She represses her personality, and that's the part people dislike about her love for Sasuke. It brings her down, even in Part 1. On the other hand, Karin never compromises who she

Still, as I said before, the only problem I have with SS happening is that it would mean NS doesn't happen, and I believe NS will happen because of my understanding of the story. Naruto and Sakura ending up with other people besides each other would feel like the story deceived me. To me it would feel the same as Naruto saying that he isn't interested in becoming Hokage anymore.

In the forest of death sakura yelled at sasuke and called him a coward, which is in my opinion more insulting to a ninja than half-heartedly calling him stupid. Sakura ending up with sasuke might seem bad for her character fro our prespective but not necessarily other fans. And it doesn't have to be bad for her character if the manga hinted at them ending up together if for examples sakura plays a role in his redemption and if she reminds him about being a shinobi and it would make her look like a better person to forgive him and move past it. If naruto can let him be his brother again then sakura can forgive him too.

Sasuke tried to kill both girls in a very cruel way. That's good enough reason for me to feel disgusted from SS & SK.

yes

Yep.

Wait, are we back to talking about SK again?

Apparently.

So Sasuke's relationship with Sakura will be better because he didn't land a hit? I disagree.

Both the attacks towards Sakura and Karin were of the same level. Sakura was simply luckier to get out of it unharmed.

I mentioned in my previous post that the attack isn't the same because sakura was the enemy and karin was the comrade. But okayyy so they're on the same level. If karin can move past it and if kishi can make an asspull for sasuke then the same could happen with sakura.

True. But the logic in the Naruto world demands forgiveness. If I lived there I'm sure I could get away with so many things just by saying I love too much.

lol

Edited by candycane-chan, 08 February 2013 - 03:45 PM.

[redragon88]

In the forest of death sakura yelled at sasuke and called him a coward, which is in my opinion more insulting to a ninja than half-heartedly calling him stupid. Sakura ending up with sasuke might seem bad for her character fro our prespective but not necessarily other fans. And it doesn't have to be bad for her character if the manga hinted at them ending up together if for examples sakura plays a role in his redemption and if she reminds him about being a shinobi and it would make her look like a better person to forgive him and move past it. If naruto can let him be his brother again then sakura can forgive him too.

Uh, it's not a contest to see who can insult Sasuke the worst.

It's a matter of Sakura not being able to be herself around him in normal situations while Karin is clearly capable of doing so. The best way to show that Sakura can be herself around Sasuke is precisely if she could half-heartedly call him stupid, just like she does with Naruto. But that never happened.

And there's also the fact that Sakura called him a coward in defense of Naruto. She got angry at seeing how Naruto was fighting hard against Orochimaru while Sasuke did nothing. Sakura also yelled at Sasuke when he insulted Naruto during the Summit arc. It seems that every time Sakura gets angry at Sasuke it has to do something with Naruto.

[candycane-chan]

Uh, it's not a contest to see who can insult Sasuke the worst.

It's a matter of Sakura not being able to be herself around him in normal situations while Karin is clearly capable of doing so. The best way to show that Sakura can be herself around Sasuke is precisely if she could half-heartedly call him stupid, just like she does with Naruto. But that never happened.

And there's also the fact that Sakura called him a coward in defense of Naruto. She got angry at seeing how Naruto was fighting hard against Orochimaru while Sasuke did nothing. Sakura also yelled at Sasuke when he insulted Naruto during the Summit arc. It seems that every time Sakura gets angry at Sasuke it has to do something with Naruto.

maybe...

I was just pointing out that sakura can stand up to him.

My dislike for SK is a bit fueled by my indefference towards karin. I don't hate her but she revolves a lot about sasuke, and well...yea I just don't like her and I have mixed feelings about sasuke.

If sakura acted like a tsundere with sasuke then I might have found it more appealing because I really like her fiery personality and she's rarely like that around him. I really liked how it was about naruto but what pissed me off was that during the first naruto was unconsience and in the second he was busy to notice. I'm just a bit curious; what is naruto's opinion about this (the second time at the kage summit) she's yelling at sasuke for him and she's defending him and according to sai, she was only thinking about him. What does naruto think of this?

[Weltall]

Everything involving Sasuke is disgusting creepy and makes no sense wheter it be Naruto Sakura Karin or Itachi, especially Itachi. No matter how much kishi tries to sugarcoat it all of them are repulsive and is the main reason why these characters have been degraded, there's nothing that can justify people nonsensical attachment to Sasuke.

[luffyq1]

Everything involving Sasuke is disgusting creepy and makes no sense wheter it be Naruto Sakura Karin or Itachi, especially Itachi. No matter how much kishi tries to sugarcoat it all of them are repulsive and is the main reason why these characters have been degraded, there's nothing that can justify people nonsensical attachment to Sasuke.

Truth.

Edited by luffyq1, 08 February 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[merryGOflava]

why are people complaining about sasuke again?

we all know he's going to get redeemed. what's the point of all this searching for truth stuff if he is just going to stay evil.


then again everyone has their own opinion on the matter.....I just hope people won't get too disappointed by the end of the manga.

[Nate River]

That's a problematic contrast of ideas between you and Kishi. If you can't accept Sasuke's potential redemption then the conclusion of the story will seriously disappoint you.

No kidding. I mean, it's not as if I've constantly saying he will be redeemed. I KNOW he will be. I did not say I personally would not be able to do that, but if people are not willing to accept that then his redemption then how is him running a Chidori through Naruto in anyway meaningful to your argument?

[quote]If this was real life your argument would be the undisputed truth of the world, but alas this is the world of fiction where death is cheap and evil acts are simple misdemeanors.

It's important not to put to much real world logic into this type of stories. Can you imagine if the same had been done with Dragonball? Oh boy.

From a real world perspective this makes sense, but as I keep saying the world of fiction tends to give a different feel in terms of morality and psychology.[quote]

When trying to determine whether it's possible let loose fireballs from your rearend then, yes, I'd agree with that. Then the only thing to worry about is your own internal consistency. I do not deny the possibility of SK. I've acknowledge that numerous times, but that will not keep me from hating it and that is precisely why. I do not find it an "excuse." I find it a legitimate reason to dislike the pairing.

However, I think it is important to bring in some sort of logic when talking about morality, philosophy, psycology ect. and whether those kind of interpersonal relationships work. Just because its a story doesn't mean I have to check my common sense at the door and accept whatever he says as good. I have to accept it happens when he makes it canon because fact is fact, but I'm well within my right to say the whole thing blows.

This isn't being written in a moral void and whether intentional or not (and I think it is intentional) he brings up these issues with his characters, but when he does I should just chuck "real world" logic out the window when he is all but inviting he readers to use that logic?

Perhaps I'm jaded, but as a prosecutor I get cases where people have the kitten beat out of them only to run to us and say please go away it won't happen again. When I take a peak at the defendant's history I know that it's not true. It's depressing and frustrating. I've seen it on Agg Assaults w/Deadly Weapon cases, too. I cannot sit here and say, but well this is fiction, it's totally okay now. Who gives a rip if she's headed right back for the guy who did this right after he did and will be satisfied he will not do so again after a few minutes of yelling and maybe some contrition? Sorry, no can do.

It's one thing if she forgives him. I've heard the families of murder and intox. manslaughter victims do it, but that doesn't mean they want the offender out of prison. But to become initimate and start a family with him? As they say....it's a bridge too far.

Well....hey! At least they will have fun stories to tell the kids when they ask about when mommy fell in love with daddy.

If that incident doesn't bother you, then that's all you. I don't care.

But it bothers me, and it's a deal breaker for that pairing. There is no undoing it for me.

[redragon88]

@Nate River

The world of fictions loves to play around with the line of morality.

They're able to do so with ease because in fiction there are no real consequences. That's why people allow themselves to have a more relaxed view about events. Take Dragonball, Vegeta is downright a murderous criminal and yet suffered no consequences whatsoever. It was just enough to show him reluctantly be on the good side for the readers to embrace it.

Since a work of fiction doesn't physically harm someone in the real world then people can be more forgiving of what happens there. That's the beauty of fiction, as twisted as it sound. Anything goes.