369 replies to this topic

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Hinata getting so much attention recently, definitely plays a part in this.

The NH got their service, where's a lil' NS service, hm?

Of course, it's really just the cherry on top from the lack of Sakura, lately.

[James S Cassidy]

In Part 1, we're shown all of this potential but it's not played upon. We're shown she's surprisingly a genjutsu type and she has amazing chakra control to the point where learning for her comes easy. She's also very smart. This is great stuff to work from. We're then shown that she wants to get stronger but she lacks the guidance that Naruto and Sasuke have. Okay, that's legit. Part 2 comes, and she's made TREMENDOUS growth. She's able to heal and be more useful to her comrades, but she's also gained taijutsu skills, and super strength. Sweeettt! Now we're making progress with her character. Now she'll be more active in battles. Sasori fight, and the healing of Kankurou. Wow! She literally blew me away with how much she was involved with what was going on. She was taking a step in the right direction and showing her worth even more, but then it sort of just stops. Sure, we get panel time with her, and some great NS development but it's not much PERSONAL development going on IMO, or not enough. I love the interaction she has with Naruto, but at this point, I want more action and more personal development. It's like her desires have just died down from what they were before. I don't know if anyone will agree with this bit but I certainly feel this way.

You have a point and I know exactly what you mean. I also agree with you that there has to be more interaction, but there are a few things that kind of throw a wrench in it.

Before that, let me say that if you compare the Sakura with Hinata moments you can see there is no comparison. Sakura has at least 5 times more moments under her belt through the entire manga. Hinata's moments as well have been very...I don't want to say bland, but they have not been real good moments of actual development for her even when you think it should have been. Problem is her fans are so hyped up for her that even the bad moments are seen in a good light. I feel this has gotten to be a problem.

At times there are moments where she is no help at all, yet still say she "solved the problem" and 615-616, as I have said, felt so forced I am not even sure if I want to accept it. I have to, but it urks me to no end. Probably the only chapter(s) that I have a strong hatred for.

The other problem I see is that, in what other ways can Sakura truly develop? To really think about it, the last hurdle of development she has to go through is Sasuke which we all know will be saved for the end. Same for Naruto too. This one thing that is taking so long to get to.

I guess Sakura could gain powers during the war some how, but I see people against this idea as well. I also have a funny feeling that any more Naruto and Sakura interaction could lead to them being canon because of it. I don't know about this one, but this seems kind of...weird. If they truly talked it over at this point in time, NS will be canon already.

Slextrem brought up a good point in the podcast about this. I don't know, I am having a hard time distinguishing my bias from what really needs to happen and from a writing stand point. I could come up with many different excuses or reasons, but my bias will always say "I want to see Sakura. I am tired of this game of hoola-hoops with Hinata."

This is why I am on the fence. I want to see what happens first, then I'll make a better judgement.

That's all I can say.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 February 2013 - 01:22 AM.

[kirabook]

In this case, it's not about Hinata getting attention.

Naruto has been in Konoha for a little over a year. The Gaara rescue arc happened 10-11 months ago. From then to now, I can't say I've seen Sakura have any development in terms of her strength and fighting ability.

This is a shounen manga, I'm not just reading this for the romance bits. I care about the fights as long as they aren't far fetched. We've seen Naruto make leaps and bounds in a little over a year. We've seen him train quite a lot to get so powerful, I'm very proud of him.

Then, we've seen Sasuke get powerful gifts handed to him for no good reason throughout the entire series. We've had useless arcs of him fighting and going through his boring life of rogueness. The only thing that we really should have seen is him killing Oro and killing Itachi (and small bits of him learning the truth) What was the point of spending all those chapters on Sasuke? There wasn't one. It's just terrible.

I get upset every time I think about how Kishi could have used his time more wisely and let us see Sakura working on some technique or learning something powerful that could be used later. Even Kakashi has more than her in that department. Kishi never brought his hints into fruition and now I have this deep sad feeling that it might be too late.

The manga just feels too close to an end. I'm not sure I could support random elements suddenly being brought out of nowhere. I mean, while I like the idea of this lost hidden shrine full of Uzumaki secrets, I'm just so disappointed that Kishi didn't have the mind to bring this sort of thing in earlier with characters who aren't Sasuke and his little gang. It's always Sasuke. Hinata hasn't eaten most of Sakura's role, Sasuke has. He's stolen all the time for her possible development and now Kishi is wasting the rest on Hinata.

It's always about the build up for me. Kishi was doing good with it at first, but now it feels like he's let it slowly go to waste, and it's now that I think it's most obvious.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

The other problem I see is that, in what other ways can Sakura truly develop? To really think about it, the last hurdle of development she has to go through is Sasuke which we all know will be saved for the end. Same for Naruto too. This one thing that is taking so long to get to.

I guess Sakura could gain powers during the war some how, but I see people against this idea as well. I also have a funny feeling that anymore Naruto and Sakura interaction could lead to them being canon because of it. I don't know about this one, but this seems kind of...weird. I they truly talked it over at this point in time, NS will be canon already.

Slextrem brought up a good point in the podcast about this. I don't know, I am having a hard time distinguishing my bias from what really needs to happen and from a writing stand point. I could come up with many different excuses or reasons, but my bias will always say "I want to see Sakura. I am tired of this game of hoola-hoops with Hinata."

This is why I am on the fence. I ant to see what happens first, then I'll make a better judgement.

That's all I can say.

That's the main reason why I'm not commenting on Sakura's lack of appearance. What ELSE can she develop? We already know of her resolve to help Naruto (even though she hasn't been shown opportunities to do so), we're confident that she's brilliant in her own abilities, medical ninjutsu and her strength, really, the only thing left is her relationship to Sasuke. She's probably fairly prominent amongst the Konoha Ninja at least, just for being Tsunade's apprentice and being worthy of that title, so no 'nobody to somebody,' storyline to exploit.

Yes, she wants to remove Naruto's burden by trying to kill Sasuke, but she hesitated at the last minute. Without Sasuke, NS really would be canon right now. I think you were also the one who talked about how the story will be different if we removed Sasuke from the equation.

[James S Cassidy]

That's the main reason why I'm not commenting on Sakura's lack of appearance. What ELSE can she develop? We already know of her resolve to help Naruto (even though she hasn't been shown opportunities to do so), we're confident that she's brilliant in her own abilities, medical ninjutsu and her strength, really, the only thing left is her relationship to Sasuke. She's probably fairly prominent amongst the Konoha Ninja at least, just for being Tsunade's apprentice and being worthy of that title, so no 'nobody to somebody,' storyline to exploit.

Exactly. That is how I feel.

Kishimoto could plug Sakura in every scene, but it would be nothing more than fan-service which is how we see Hinata now. Hinata was only plugged into some scene simply to please her fans...at least that is my strong belief.

If you want to have Sakura get this development, I can see only two options. She gets it during the Sasuke fight OR she gets it from a reunion with a dying Tsunade. Other than that, there is no other way for her to develop.

So do we want Sakura to have good development with meaningful scenes or do we want that fan-service? Shadow Wolf even told me that the best way to see her develop is to have her put in a scene where she backs up what she said in 573 against an enemy Naruto wants to fight alone. The best candidate for this is the Sasuke fight.

Again, she would gain new powers an abilities, but I see people go against this as well.

I cannot think of a scene to develop Sakura more that couldn't have been saved for a later and more important fight.

Yes, she wants to remove Naruto's burden by trying to kill Sasuke, but she hesitated at the last minute. Without Sasuke, NS really would be canon right now. I think you were also the one who talked about how the story will be different if we removed Sasuke from the equation.

Yes I did. I am also very confident that there are a good handful of scenes that would never have happened if Sasuke never existed in the first place

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 February 2013 - 01:43 AM.

[Don-kun]

Exactly. That is how I feel.

Kishimoto could plug Sakura in every scene, but it would be nothing more than fan-service which is how we see Hinata now. Hinata was only plugged into some scene simply to please her fans...at least that is my strong belief.

If you want to have Sakura get this development, I can see only two options. She gets it during the Sasuke fight OR she gets it from a reunion with a dying Tsunade. Other than that, there is no other way for her to develop.

So do we want Sakura to have good development with meaningful scenes or do we want that fan-service? Shadow Wolf even told me that the best way to see her develop is to have her put in a scene where she backs up what she said in 573 against an enemy Naruto wants to fight alone. The best candidate for this is the Sasuke fight.

Again, she would gain new powers an abilities, but I see people go against this as well.

I cannot think of a scene to develop Sakura more that couldn't have been saved for a later and more important fight.




Yes I did. I am also very confident that there are a good handful of scenes that would never have happened if Sasuke never existed in the first place

I said this once and I will say it again, I never agree with non of these winning about Sakura not being in the Manga for the fallowing reasons.

1- We had a lot of Sakura in the past, she is one of the characters apart from Naruto and Sasuke who got the biggest development in personality, and strength.

2- Sakura biggest problem right now is her emotional turmoil in the romance department. (her weakness is Sasuke).

3- This isn't a story where I can demand what I want (only hope), the most I can do is complain an move on.

4- Kishi never gave us a scrip showing us how this manga will progress, but then he suddenly decided to remove Sakura to add a new character or NS nemesis Hinata.

5- This isn't my story Kishi can do whatever he wants and all I can do is agree or disagree.

6- We don't know what he has in mind in regards to the future development of the Manga.


I also hear stuff saying that we shouldn't have to wait to see the main heroine, my question would be are you paying Kishimoto to decide when he should add Sakura to the story? If he wants to feature her that will be great for Sakura fans, but if he write her just for a specific purpose we will just have to deal with it (angry, disappointment or cheated is the only way we can feel about it).

Trust me I understand that we are all bother and angry about the fact that Kishi is not giving Sakura much panel time lately and worse when he is forcing Hinata in some role that could well be giving to Sakura and would made a lot more sense, but all we can do is complain, we can also get angry, but we need to move on, there isn't anything we can do about it.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Again, she would gain new powers an abilities, but I see people go against this as well.

I don't really know what else she CAN develop, power-wise. Genjutsu? Sure, but her main path/skill-set that she's developed is focused now on medical ninjutsu. We also know that medical ninjutsu CAN be used offensively.

It would be the equivalent of a full-respec, she could do it, but it feels far too late in the game. Maybe if we had another break, such as during Naruto's shadow-clone training, but the full momentum towards the Sasuke confrontation seems to be going with no way to slow down.

I s'pose she can develop more hand-to-hand combat or increasing her agility, but that's something Kishi can say she trained during the time-skip and it'd be good enough, I think. She's also demonstrated her prowess in combat quite a bit. Not much, but enough that we have a good handle on her actual combat ability.

Elemental training? Sure, but again, her main focus, ninjutsu-wise, is medical ninjutsu, which requires no element. Plus, she can just dig her hands into the ground and rip off a giant boulder to throw at people.

The only thing she hasn't really showcased is whether or not she can summon anything, be it slug or another animal, and that would only show her well-established reputation as Tsunade's successor and protege.

@Don. You mean, 'whining,' not 'winning,' don't you?

Also, I'm not really bothered by the lack of Sakura. I'm just a 'wait-and-see' person, even if it's taking a long time. If it doesn't happen, oh well. Not the end of the world.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 04 February 2013 - 02:42 AM.

[Slextrem]

I'm sorry if someone else mentioned this previously, but has anyone noticed how Sasuke's parallel with Naruto is reversed?

... --Click here to view--

It helps visually show how different Naruto and Sasuke are.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

I'm sorry if someone else mentioned this previously, but has anyone noticed how Sasuke's parallel with Naruto is reversed?

... --Click here to view--

It helps visually show how different Naruto and Sasuke are.

Yep, don't remember what page, but someone mentioned it.

Their facial expressions are obviously contrasted too.

Naruto's was


Sasuke's was "Huh. Konoha." *face of mild annoyance*

[Derock]

Am I the only one questioning how on earth did Konoha is back in its original state now after it was nuked by Pain (in Naruto's time) like a week ago? O.O

[James S Cassidy]

I said this once and I will say it again, I never agree with non of these winning about Sakura not being in the Manga for the fallowing reasons.

I am not trying to point fingers here, but merely trying to give my view on the subject. All the reasons you give are fine and well, but there are still people who think Hinata is being more of a heroine than Sakura.

I see people argue every week about this and I find that while their anger has merit, it won't make things happen.

That's why I am on the fence. I want to see Sakura as bad as everyone else, but I know that there are still things where Sakura will make more of an impact than just an appearance.

And Sakura's lack of appearance doesn't piss me off as much as forced character un-development.

Am I the only questioning how on earth did Konoha is back in its original state now after it was nuked by Pain (in Naruto's time) like a week ago? O.O

Yamato. He was kind of used to make a lot of the buildings be built faster.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 04 February 2013 - 02:57 AM.

[neoshadow]

I'm sorry if someone else mentioned this previously, but has anyone noticed how Sasuke's parallel with Naruto is reversed?

... --Click here to view--

It helps visually show how different Naruto and Sasuke are.

Unfortunately all I can think about with that image is just how quickly Konoha has been rebuilt after it was leveled by Pain, seriously not much time has passed but its back to normal, so really logically it should look different to Sasuke instead of what the panel is going for with the parallel between his and Naruto's feelings for Konoha because I refuse to believe they rebuilt Konoha exactly as it was.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Unfortunately all I can think about with that image is just how quickly Konoha has been rebuilt after it was leveled by Pain, seriously not much time has passed but its back to normal, so really logically it should look different to Sasuke instead of what the panel is going for with the parallel between his and Naruto's feelings for Konoha because I refuse to believe they rebuilt Konoha exactly as it was.

As James said, I also guess Yamato.


Also, laziness and 'Rule of Drama.' It's practically the same art, only with a black sky and Sasuke on top of the tower, this time. It does its job of showing the contrast between the two protagonists very well.

[Don-kun]

I am not trying to point fingers here, but merely trying to give my view on the subject. All the reasons you give are fine and well, but there are still people who think Hinata is being more of a heroine than Sakura.

I see people argue every week about this and I find that while their anger has merit, it won't make things happen.

That's why I am on the fence. I want to see Sakura as bad as everyone else, but I know that there are still things where Sakura will make more of an impact than just an appearance.

And Sakura's lack of appearance doesn't piss me off as much as forced character un-development.



Yamato. He was kind of used to make a lot of the buildings be built faster.

James the thing is that I didn't point any fingers either, in fact I agree with the whining, complaining and the angriness, what I don't agree with is the amount of whining, complaining and angriness about the same stuff again and again when there is nothing we can do or say to change it.
At this point I just want to see what happen next, I came to the understanding that Kishi does not need to add Sakura because I want, I wish he could add her when she is needed for a specific role and not only for fan service or romance but that is Kishi decision to make.

I don't really know what else she CAN develop, power-wise. Genjutsu? Sure, but her main path/skill-set that she's developed is focused now on medical ninjutsu. We also know that medical ninjutsu CAN be used offensively.

It would be the equivalent of a full-respec, she could do it, but it feels far too late in the game. Maybe if we had another break, such as during Naruto's shadow-clone training, but the full momentum towards the Sasuke confrontation seems to be going with no way to slow down.

I s'pose she can develop more hand-to-hand combat or increasing her agility, but that's something Kishi can say she trained during the time-skip and it'd be good enough, I think. She's also demonstrated her prowess in combat quite a bit. Not much, but enough that we have a good handle on her actual combat ability.

Elemental training? Sure, but again, her main focus, ninjutsu-wise, is medical ninjutsu, which requires no element. Plus, she can just dig her hands into the ground and rip off a giant boulder to throw at people.

The only thing she hasn't really showcased is whether or not she can summon anything, be it slug or another animal, and that would only show her well-established reputation as Tsunade's successor and protege.

@Don. You mean, 'whining,' not 'winning,' don't you?

Also, I'm not really bothered by the lack of Sakura. I'm just a 'wait-and-see' person, even if it's taking a long time. If it doesn't happen, oh well. Not the end of the world.

Damn, I wrote whinning instead of whining and because I got a spelling error I change it to winning oh god.

I think we all have the feelings that Sakura will get her time and if she doesn't (unlikeable) is not the end of the world like you stated.

The biggest problem is the competition between NS vs NH and Hinata fans and Sakura haters vs Sakura fans.
People might try to deny it, but that is clearly the added fuel to the already burning fire.

Edited by Don-kun, 04 February 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[kirabook]

Yamato helped a lot, and Konoha weren't the only people rebuilding, they had the people from the Land of the Waves helping as well.

[Derock]

Yamato helped a lot, and Konoha weren't the only people rebuilding, they had the people from the Land of the Waves helping as well.

But realistically, they couldn't rebuild the whole city in a whole week. And then there are the designs, recreationals areas such as parks, not to mention majority of the ninjas are in war (and in their deathbeds so to speak).

[Slextrem]

But realistically, they couldn't rebuild the whole city in a whole week. And then there are the designs, recreationals areas such as parks, not to mention majority of the ninjas are in war (and in their deathbeds so to speak).

Technically, they haven't rebuilt all of it. Just look at the panels from the Uchiha shrine. There is debris everywhere - the shrine isn't even there anymore. Plus, that Uzumaki area seemed to be in ruins, though I'm not sure if it was like that before the Pein arc or not... Anyway, I think we are supposed to assume that parts of Konoha are still under construction. We just weren't shown much of those areas.

[merryGOflava]

But realistically, they couldn't rebuild the whole city in a whole week. And then there are the designs, recreationals areas such as parks, not to mention majority of the ninjas are in war (and in their deathbeds so to speak).

they abused yamato and made him work over-time.......?

where is he again? XD

everytime someone mentions his name, I remember he's alive

[shadow_Uzumaki]

they abused yamato and made him work over-time.......?

where is he again? XD

everytime someone mentions his name, I remember he's alive

Still stuck inside the Jubi. Poor dude, man.... Missed an entire war arc because he was stuck inside wood.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

And the long-standing debate of Sakura's development gets brought up again ...


I'm one of those fans who are disapointed in how Kishimoto executes her. By a lot. It's just ... how come we never get more from Sakura than getting sidelined? Her biggest moment ever so far in Part 2 was the Sasori fight, very epic and amazing indeed. But that was so long ago. I know she's a medical ninja and her job is to heal, but it's such an easy excuse for Kishi to not let her fight at all. She's your heroine, damnnit. She should be way more than what she actually is. It's just so upsetting. Sakura is supposed to be one of the main protagonists yet I always have to say she is by definition. I hate saying that. If only Kishimoto could execute her potential again correctly, like he did in the Sasori fight. Why is she so overshadowed by Sasuke & Naruto? Why? Even Tsunade was closer in strength to Jiraiya and Orochimaru than Sakura, even though she was still the weaker one. And it's fairly obvious that she hasn't surpassed her teacher yet, unlike Naruto and Sasuke(?). It's just not fair to her, it's neglecting. I'm not saying she has to be a powerhouse or in constant, constant fights. I have never expected her of that and I don't demand it. Sakura's strength is that she's a "normal girl" who happens to have super strength and chakra control without the help of a Bloodline Limit. It makes sense for her to not be a "powerhouse". But being a "normal girl" does not excuse the fact that Sakura truly can't at least marginally keep up with her teammates.

Looking back that Part 1 and the Forest of Death scene, Sakura lamented that she was always behind and Naruto/Sasuke were always in the lead, saving her every time while she could do nothing at all. That was when she decided she no longer wanted it like that, so she said they should watch her back. It seemed like then that was foreshadowing of Sakura being closer in strength to them. Kishimoto had a completely open opportunity to do so. Apparently, this was a red herring. And then the Kage Summit had her try and do something again, so she could take away Naruto's burden. Yet she said at the end of it all: "All I ever do is cry ... my resolve is nothing compared to Naruto's. I couldn't do anything .... all I have to do is believe in them!" But then we have the Sakura speech: "No matter what you say, we will be together ... we'll all fight together." Basically, while I'm leaning on this being foreshadowing of Sakura doing something, it really doesn't excuse all the years of neglect. Nothing will be good enough to make me forget that.

sushi mentioned Inuyasha's heroine. While Kagome was a damsel in distress all the time (far worse than Sakura ever has been, btw) and a complete Inuyasha satellitte that had nothing that deep about her other than her love for him (Hinata-level, my friends. That's how bad it was), at least she was very revelant to the plot. I don't think there was every any moment where Kagome got sidelined for ridiculous amounts of time, not like Sakura. Plus, she had the very epic moment where she almost killed the main frickin' villain. Imagine how we would feel if Sakura had a moment like that with one of the main villians? Rumiko Takashi never neglected her heroine, unlike Kishi. But Sakura's character development is amazing and very well-thought out emotionally. My only problem is her illogical and damaging love for Sasuke, but it's obvious she'll overcome this too at one point or another despite the fact she should already be over him. I'm very happy with her growing affection for Naruto, highlighting her change little by little. While a lot of her character is romance based around her love for Naruto and Sasuke, I don't believe at all she's as bad as Hinata. It's at least not terrible enough to dignifiy her to be unlikable, like Hinata is for me.

And speaking of Hinata, I just realized something fully considering 615. As much as it pains me to say this and I would much rather see Sakura do things, I can see why we are getting force-fed Hinata so many times. It makes a sickening degree of sense despite the fact that I completely despise 615 and how Naruto turned into some mewling, giving up guy who cracks under pressure. Let me explain why Sakura wasn't the one to do this and why Naruto was regressed. See, unlike Hinata, Sakura has done tons of maturing and growing up emotionally. She's very good in the support field and it's now to the point her character development is very nearly done: All that's left now is realizing she loves Naruto and overcoming her feelings for Sasuke. That's all that needs to be done. Let's look at Hinata now. She has changed very little throughout the series and remained static, compared to Sakura. She was unconfident and still Naruto-kuning. 615 fixed half of that. She's now more confident and proved she can stand up to Naruto if it was serious enough. That was something she desperately needed. My point is, Hinata is so underdeveloped as a character, Kishi needs to cram all of her development in rushed, forced examples so she can finally grow. Still has her obsessive, Naruto-centricness but it's baby steps.

@Don-Kun:

I agree with you so much about the competition between us and the NH fans/Sakura haters. It effects all of our judgement on things, no doubt. Sakura has so many haters, Hinata has so many fans. NaruHina is very popular, NaruSaku isn't compared to it (At least in the West and the NH fans are very loud). Because of all of this constant Sakura bashing/NS bashing, the NS/Sakura fans get offended and try to defend their reasoning or why they think that NS will happen or why we love Sakura. Because of this extreme degree of love/hate on both sides of the spectrum, it erupts into never-ending arguments and sometimes bashing.

It really affects my enjoyment of the story tbh. I almost feel like I'm forced to care about all of this when they bash Sakura or say NS is dead. It's annoying. I already have several NH fans claiming to me that I'm in denial, NaruSaku isn't even a possibility anymore because of Naruto's "I hate people who lie to themselves" line, Naruto never loved Sakura, the blush during Sakura's confession doesn't mean he loves her, his anger then doesn't mean he loves her, Sakura isn't ashamed of her feelings for Sasuke, he isn't hurt by her feelings for Sasuke blah blah blah, their opinion is 100% superior compared to mine (I actually had a NH fan say that bluntly to my face yesterday. God, the arrogance ). Honestly, I was literally getting attacked on all sides and those stubborn NH fans never listen to reason, even when I literally said "NH's possible". I try and respect the NH fan's opinions yet some claim I'm in denial or that I'm stupid. It got so bad yesterday, I actually had to take a break. I still haven't responded or looked at their next replies yet. *sigh*

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 04 February 2013 - 05:49 AM.