406 replies to this topic

[Transformers03]

^ that isn't going to happen. that would suck out all of the power and emotion (for the reader) of the event of Naruto becoming Hokage. Kishimoto would never hand Naruto Hokageship like that.

No..........not really.............

Then how do we expect Naruto to become Hokage beforehand then, if we didn't take in the consideration of Tsunade dying?
Did we all have to assume that Tsunade just had to die for Naruto to become Hokage, not retire?
Of course you can argue that Tsunade is older than Kakashi, and that she'll probably retire sooner. But according to you, the previous Hokage retiring and giving the title to Naruto would suck out all the emotion and power of the events of Naruto becoming Hokage. So, no matter what, someone needed to die for Naruto to become Hokage, or the events that lead up to him becoming Hokage should be important. BUT, I'll argue with that by saying that the whole series has been leading up to Naruto becoming Hokage. It doesn't matter the specific circumstances that lead up to him gaining that title, as long as readers feel like he's ready or has matured. Usually a main character's growth doesn't 100% end until very end of the series, and the fact that we are arguing that Naruto doesn't seem ready enough to become Hokage, thus he needs to grow up fast, means he's not ready.

I'm not trying to disprove your theory, I'm just pointing out an other possibility besides having more characters dying or for Naruto to gain the title of Hokage already. Those may still happen, but like I said, it's just an other possibility............

I already feel like you're going to post something else to counter this (unless I won you over with this (doubtful)), so to prevent a possible argument from coming out of this let just agree to disagree.

[jworks]

No..........not really.............

Then how do we expect Naruto to become Hokage beforehand then, if we didn't take in the consideration of Tsunade dying?
Did we all have to assume that Tsunade just had to die for Naruto to become Hokage, not retire?
Of course you can argue that Tsunade is older than Kakashi, and that she'll probably retire sooner. But according to you, the previous Hokage retiring and giving the title to Naruto would suck out all the emotion and power of the events of Naruto becoming Hokage. So, no matter what, someone needed to die for Naruto to become Hokage, or the events that lead up to him becoming Hokage should be important. BUT, I'll argue with that by saying that the whole series has been leading up to Naruto becoming Hokage. It doesn't matter the specific circumstances that lead up to him gaining that title, as long as readers feel like he's ready or has matured. Usually a main character's growth doesn't 100% end until very end of the series, and the fact that we are arguing that Naruto doesn't seem ready enough to become Hokage, thus he needs to grow up fast, means he's not ready.

I'm not trying to disprove your theory, I'm just pointing out an other possibility besides having more characters dying or for Naruto to gain the title of Hokage already. Those may still happen, but like I said, it's just an other possibility............

I already feel like you're going to post something else to counter this (unless I won you over with this (doubtful)), so to prevent a possible argument from coming out of this let just agree to disagree.

No, you are trying to disprove my theory. You stated that I was wrong and then explained why. That is "trying to disprove my theory."And that is fine, I was trying to disprove yours...that's what a discussion is.

You countered my argument with the fact that the whole series has been leading up to Naruto being Hokage. This very point is why I believe it has to be a moment of climax. And Naruto becoming Hokage in anything less than the ultimate climax (or immediate subsequent falling action) of the entire series is a huge let down and disappointment to me.

I will also use another point you made in favor of my perspective. Yes, Naruto isn't ready and has a long way to grow up and there isn't much time left in the manga for him to do that. That is exactly why he needs a catalyst for his character development and I believe that catalyst could be the death of Tsunade and Kakashi.

To be clear, I'm not angry or upset and won't get upset. But I'd rather exercise my opinion then walk away from a discussion because you told me to. I'm never going to turn any discussion I have on this site into a malicious argument because I'm capable of choosing not to. We all are, it's that simple.

[Transformers03]

No, you are trying to disprove my theory. You stated that I was wrong and then explained why. That is "trying to disprove my theory."And that is fine, I was trying to disprove yours...that's what a discussion is.

You countered my argument with the fact that the whole series has been leading up to Naruto being Hokage. This very point is why I believe it has to be a moment of climax. And Naruto becoming Hokage in anything less than the ultimate climax (or immediate subsequent falling action) of the entire series is a huge let down and disappointment to me.

I will also use another point you made in favor of my perspective. Yes, Naruto isn't ready and has a long way to grow up and there isn't much time left in the manga for him to do that. That is exactly why he needs a catalyst for his character development and I believe that catalyst could be the death of Tsunade and Kakashi.

To be clear, I'm not angry or upset and won't get upset. But I'd rather exercise my opinion then walk away from a discussion because you told me to. I'm never going to turn any discussion I have on this site into a malicious argument because I'm capable of choosing not to. We all are, it's that simple.

Okay, good.

[tricksie]

@codus - lol about Kakashi having a lot of growing up to do too. So true.

The thing about Tsunade possibly dying now and handing Naruto the Hokage-ship is that is undermines the whole idea that him being Hokage was a "prize" for all his hard work. I think the role of Hokage will come at the very end. Not before he wins back Sasuke and before he declares his love for Sakura.

The other thing about her dying and handing Naruto the job, is that it then becomes a sad/heartwrenching thing. Sort of like the VP stepping up after the assasination of a president. It's not a celebratory hand-off. Not like Naruto has envisioned since he was a kid. If he were to inherit the hokage-dom on a battlefield, in the midst of a war, there would certainly be no time for traipsing after Sasuke. Not even later, after he's back in Konoha. His first responsibilty would be to his village. (And he'd have hell of a lot more to answer for if he pardons Sasuke while he's the head of a nation.)

It would be as anticlimactic as if Naruto had inherited the Hokage-ship after Pain's attack. No glory, but a lot of hard depressing work. And certainly no room for Sasuke.

So yeah, I keep going back to the fact that for Naruto to accomplish the things he wants to — save Sasuke, confess to Sakura, become Hokage — it will have to be in that certain order. If he's not willing to tell Sakura his feelings when he "can't even keep a promise" about bringing Sasuke home, how could he accept being Hokage before he saves Sasuke?

[jworks]

I thought we weren't going to get upset or malicious?

I'm treating you with a common decency, why wouldn't you return the favor?

[Transformers03]

I thought we weren't going to get upset or malicious?

I'm treating you with a common decency, why wouldn't you return the favor?

Wait, are talking about me. I just said okay and good. Didn't mean disrespect or anything negative of the sort. I just really had nothing else to say. I'm just glad nothing bad came about this. I have nothing really more to say about the topic, so I just left the comment like that.

[Codus N]

@codus - lol about Kakashi having a lot of growing up to do too. So true.

The thing about Tsunade possibly dying now and handing Naruto the Hokage-ship is that is undermines the whole idea that him being Hokage was a "prize" for all his hard work. I think the role of Hokage will come at the very end. Not before he wins back Sasuke and before he declares his love for Sakura.

The other thing about her dying and handing Naruto the job, is that it then becomes a sad/heartwrenching thing. Sort of like the VP stepping up after the assasination of a president. It's not a celebratory hand-off. Not like Naruto has envisioned since he was a kid. If he were to inherit the hokage-dom on a battlefield, in the midst of a war, there would certainly be no time for traipsing after Sasuke. Not even later, after he's back in Konoha. His first responsibilty would be to his village. (And he'd have hell of a lot more to answer for if he pardons Sasuke while he's the head of a nation.)

It would be as anticlimactic as if Naruto had inherited the Hokage-ship after Pain's attack. No glory, but a lot of hard depressing work. And certainly no room for Sasuke.

So yeah, I keep going back to the fact that for Naruto to accomplish the things he wants to — save Sasuke, confess to Sakura, become Hokage — it will have to be in that certain order. If he's not willing to tell Sakura his feelings when he "can't even keep a promise" about bringing Sasuke home, how could he accept being Hokage before he saves Sasuke?

Exactly. And that's why if Tsunade dies, Kakashi will be the one to keep the seat warm for a bit until the end of the series. Of course, that is, if he can get his ass back up in gear and face Obito as his enemy, not his best friend.

[Darth Krypt]

Even if Tsunade dies, I don't think Naruto would accept being Hokage until he resolves the situation with Sasuke. He already made that clear. That is his ultimate goal. He said, "how can I be a Hokage if I can't even save my friends?" If Naruto were to accept the Hokage title before fighting Sasuke then that would undermine his character. And now chances are Tsunade is going to die before Naruto meets Sasuke so who knows what would happen to the Hokage spot then. Its definitely not going to Naruto yet. Maybe there's no need to have an immediate successor yet in this war. I mean all 5 kages are down. They just need someone to command the army and Shikaku's doing the job now.

Edited by Darth Krypt, 15 September 2012 - 05:01 AM.

[Codus N]

Yeah, but you have to consider how it affects the army's moral. With a Kage dead, they need to select another one to boost their morality. And besides, Shikaku is the type that prefers working in the shadows, befitting his theme.

On a side note, I found a good fic that seems to be the most likely outcome to me on Obito's character.

http://www.fanfictio...as-a-Team-Seven

spoiler --Click here to view--

Rin being the one to redeem him in some sort of "limbo" dimension between life and death like the one where Kakashi met his dad makes a lot of sense.

Not only that, I think that in his dying moments, Obito will give Kakashi his Hashirama cells to power him up and allow him to spam Kamui as much as he wants. If he adds Naruto's cells, he'll probably be unstoppable.

[tricksie]

i think i'm too tired to be online: Codus I thought you wrote "bimbo dimension" instead of "limbo dimension!" Rin's been hiding out in a "bimbo dimension!" Must go to sleep!

[Darth Krypt]

Yeah, but you have to consider how it affects the army's moral. With a Kage dead, they need to select another one to boost their morality. And besides, Shikaku is the type that prefers working in the shadows, befitting his theme.

Again I don't think they need an immediate replacement. Having a newly appointed Kage won't really up their moral after knowing that Madara single-handedly beat the crap out of all the 5 kages. In a war, you need a general and all the current generals have done their work well so far. The kages are just there as extra firepower. As long as they have people commanding them, they'll be fine. Anyway all that's left of this war is in Naruto's location right? I have no idea what Orochimaru's planning so can't count him in yet.

Speaking of Orochimaru, anyone thought that the person he meant, the one who knows everything, is the sage of six paths himself?

[Codus N]

Get your ass to bed, woman!!!

[merryGOflava]

ya know im just gonna say

that if tsunade dies i HOPE naruto becomes hokage.

cause
1) kakashi doesnt
2) naruto does
3) naruto is hokage level and beyond
4) and no one loves the village more than him

so why not!!!

naruto can have shikamaru and sakura helping him with the brain and leading work and WHAMO!!!

hes good to go

you guys can say " hes too young and he doesnt know how to lead and i wanted him to become hokage when tsunade passes it down instead of her just dying"

but this is a manga XD and that leading stuff will always come to the main character

AND i want naruto to become hokage before the manga ends thank you very much >:U

also tsunade can still pass the torch to naruto :3 ya know her final words and stuff

[Transformers03]

Yeah, but you have to consider how it affects the army's moral. With a Kage dead, they need to select another one to boost their morality. And besides, Shikaku is the type that prefers working in the shadows, befitting his theme.

On a side note, I found a good fic that seems to be the most likely outcome to me on Obito's character.

http://www.fanfictio...as-a-Team-Seven

spoiler --Click here to view--

Rin being the one to redeem him in some sort of "limbo" dimension between life and death like the one where Kakashi met his dad makes a lot of sense.

Not only that, I think that in his dying moments, Obito will give Kakashi his Hashirama cells to power him up and allow him to spam Kamui as much as he wants. If he adds Naruto's cells, he'll probably be unstoppable.

I don't really read fan fiction, mainly because it seems at times to be a little bit............fanservicey. Like everything in those stories are just written so that a certain fan's fantasy can come to life in their own head. Nothing against it (though I do get angry that I hear people ship a certain pairing because it produces better fan fiction), and sometimes there are good stories to be found (or simply stories that other people want to see happen). But I generally want them the characters they are "burrowing" to act like their canon selves. Like I've written a Doctor Who fan fiction (I only finished half of it, and never uploaded it), but I generally wrote it with the idea that the characters should act the way they would in the series.

With that said, I only read the last few lines of that fan fiction, and it was actually kind of good. While the characters act a little off (like Obito saying Rin's name with a chan at the end, like how Naruto says Sakura's name, even though he never said her name like that in the Gaiden chapters), there was something........sweet about how it ended. I still don't if I want to read the whole thing, as reading fan fiction often makes me feel kind of uncomfortable. Still, I understand what you mean how you see that will happen in the series, and if any of you like a good fan fic........then read that and tell me about.........sorry kind.....of tired.............................

[candycane-chan]

/\ probably
but have you ever thought how would his face be carved there ,since he has a mask

[T XD]

I second that. I'm not sure if Tsunade will die right away or not, but if she does there's no need for an immediate replacement. The army can do just well without her, they probably won't even find out she died right away. I just think it would be pretty pointless for Kakashi to be the Hokage for like five minutes.

Exactly, and agree with tricksie. The army doesn't need for a kage, a general or a commander is enough. If Tsunade dies Naruto won't be hokage yet, not before after the fight between him and Sasuke at least. Naruto wants to deal with Sasuke's situation which is his ultimate goal then it's the turn of his dream as it's all in order for Naruto to do and accomplish.

Kakashi won't take the temporary seat of a hokage before Naruto, only if he moved on from his past cause this is what his mentality about, but still this isn't the reason if he will be given the title of a hokage temporarily cause we have to see what is the precise story line after the war and the defeat of Obito and Madara, in the village, which things will be more clearer for us and more easy to interpret.

Edited by T XD, 15 September 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[T XD]

/\ probably
but have you ever thought how would his face be carved there ,since he has a mask

Haha I think there was even an anime filler about that. But yeah, that's another reason to spare everyone the trouble and not make him Hokage.

I think that would be a good comical moment like how the characters will think about carving his face with his mask I can imagine the sweat drops on their head XD

Edited by T XD, 15 September 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[candycane-chan]

even kishi said he found it hard to draw his emotions with his mask on
maybe he'll finally take his mask of it reminds after sakura's confession when kakashi saved her from sasuke,and ther was a fight between them,and kakashi's upper everything was burned or ripped but the mask,EVERYTHING BUT THE MASK
do you thino we'll ever get to see his face