54217 replies to this topic

[BlackBird19]

The biggest problem with the characters of this manga is that while we've seen some development for all the characters almost all of them haven't evolved emotionally. They still for the most part behave emotionally the way they did in pt1.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

@luffy1:

 

It depends on personal opinion. Kishimoto wants us to see it as noble and selfless, having Naruto put aside his own feelings and not force how he feels on her because of how much she loves Sasuke. And honestly I do find that admirable. It's one of the reasons I started supporting Naruto's love.

 

But I do think Naruto takes this a little extreme. He's not open about his love for her at all and holds back way too much when Sakura gave him more than one free pass for him to do something. If Naruto actually tried more to win her over in P2, then maybe Sakura wouldn't still be having her Sasuke issues as much. I get his reasons, but man.

 

 It just makes you wonder what Naruto's so afraid of when it comes to being with Sakura.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 27 September 2014 - 02:03 AM.

[Syn11]

Is that approach suppose to be admirable? If I see the person that I'm in love with being abused I will set aside my code of honor and beat the kitten out of the abuser.

Sasuke is not an average abuser, strictly speaking. He doesn't manipulate Sakura and constantly pushes her away (cruelly but without any lies). Sakura is like a ping-pong ball going back and forth. (

[questdrivencollie]

I think Sasuke tends to be this way towards anyone who he feels doesn't or shouldn't concern him, not just Sakura. Not a nice guy and hasn't been for a long time. So far as he's concerned, he just wants Sakura out of his business.

Edited by questdrivencollie, 27 September 2014 - 02:09 AM.

[BlackBird19]

Sasuke's a true blue psychopath, that means just about all relationships to him are trivial. And I'm not bashing the character. The way Kishimoto's portrayed him is very close to the way a real psychopath behaves.

Edited by BlackBird19, 27 September 2014 - 02:21 AM.

[luffyq1]

@luffy1:
 
It depends on personal opinion. Kishimoto wants us to see it as noble and selfless, having Naruto put aside his own feelings and not force how he feels on her because of how much she loves Sasuke. And honestly I do find that admirable. It's one of the reasons I started supporting Naruto's love.
 
But I do think Naruto takes this a little extreme. He's not open about his love for her at all and holds back way too much when Sakura gave him more than one free pass for him to do something. If Naruto actually tried more to win her over in P2, then maybe Sakura wouldn't still be having her Sasuke issues as much. I get his reasons, but man.
 
 It just makes you wonder what Naruto's so afraid of when it comes to being with Sakura.

Good point. But will slapping Sasuke in the face for belittling Sakura count as forcing his feelings on her? Even when Naruto has said something in the face of the mental abusive, it does not do it justice. Punching Sasuke in the face when he talks down to Sakura seems more appropriate since she can't stand up for herself. 
  

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

@luffy1:

 

If Naruto is constantly leaping to her defense, then how will Sakura ever develop on that front? Naruto would be fighting more of her battles for her and not only would Sakura hate that (for more than one reason) but she'd still be the paper and Sasuke the fire. Sakura needs to learn to stand up to herself when she comes to terms with her feelings and gets her own confidence. Naruto may be there for her, but he shouldn't suffocate her to the point she can't act for herself and that's what I like about him. He lets Sakura be her own person, for better or worse.

 

And tbh, if you're annoyed on why he doesn't defend Sakura as much from Sasuke, it's because Naruto sees Sasuke as "a victim of a system" and "the cycle of hate". It's not because his bond with Sasuke is stronger. He just excuses everything Sasuke does in the way he excused Obito for the same reason. It's idealistic philosophy,not just at Sasuke.

 

It's more of Naruto's characterization that should bother you IMO, not just how he is with Sasuke.

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 27 September 2014 - 02:42 AM.

[BlazingDynamo]

lol, @everyone, who the hell was that guy?

What happened? What I missed?

[luffyq1]

Sasuke is not an average abuser, strictly speaking. He doesn't manipulate Sakura and constantly pushes her away (cruelly but without any lies). Sakura is like a ping-pong ball going back and forth. (

But he has tried to murder her on multiple occasions and seeing as she shrivels up when Sasuke talks down to her, it does give off the vibe of domestic abuse. I'm sure that's not Kishi's intention, but it sure feels that way to me.

[BlackBird19]

Yeah it's really sad. Whether Sasuke's around or not it seems like he's mentally and emotionally abusing Sakura. And Naruto to an extant. I just can't wait for that last emotional obstacle of Sasuke to be cleared. Whether NS happens or not I just really would like for the hero and heroine to  move forward. 

[Syn11]

But he has tried to murder her on multiple occasions and seeing as she shrivels up when Sasuke talks down to her, it does give off the vibe of domestic abuse. I'm sure that's not Kishi's intention, but it sure feels that way to me.

It's a matter of definition. Domestic abuse presupposes a relationship. There is hardly anything like that between Sasuke and Sakura. She's just a rock under his feet (which he kicks out of his way), not an object of manipulation. Unless Sasuke has always been a secret NS shipper.

 

Yack, I read some posts based on MS translation (I think so) and it made me sick. ( According to them Sakura will never be anything more than a victim/door mat to Sasuke's whims. Perhaps, I should take a break. The recent plotline is one big frustration. And the fandom chanting about sacrificial lambs starts to irk me. Even Naruto irks me now... and I genuinely love the orange goofball.

 

 

@luffy1:

 

If Naruto is constantly leaping to her defense, then how will Sakura ever develop on that front? Naruto would be fighting more of her battles for her and not only would Sakura hate that (for more than one reason) but she'd still be the paper and Sasuke the fire. Sakura needs to learn to stand up to herself when she comes to terms with her feelings and gets her own confidence. Naruto may be there for her, but he shouldn't suffocate her to the point she can't act for herself and that's what I like about him. He lets Sakura be her own person, for better or worse.

 

And tbh, if you're annoyed on why he doesn't defend Sakura as much from Sasuke, it's because Naruto sees Sasuke as "a victim of a system" and "the cycle of hate". It's not because his bond with Sasuke is stronger. He just excuses everything Sasuke does in the way he excused Obito for the same reason. It's idealistic philosophy,not just at Sasuke.

 

It's more of Naruto's characterization that should bother you IMO, not just how he is with Sasuke.

The problem is that you can't syntathize confidence out of thin air. Its development depends on one's success. If Sakura always fails (and names herself a failure) there is no way for confidence to suddenly sprout. She needs others' reassurance to become stronger. That is how she functions.

Edited by Syn11, 27 September 2014 - 03:06 AM.

[BlazingDynamo]

I find it strange how some of the SS fans find yesterday's chapter pro SS when Sasuke clearly said "he's not interested in her"

[Iwantbuns]

I find it strange how some of the SS fans find yesterday's chapter pro SS when Sasuke clearly said "he's not interested in her"

 

I know! I don't get that. Chapter 693 literally killed SasuSaku, because Sasuke's feelings were confirmed. However I wouldn't say NaruSaku died because Sakura said she loved Sasuke. She still has stronger feelings for Naruto.

Edited by Iwantbuns, 27 September 2014 - 03:06 AM.

[luffyq1]

@luffy1:

 

If Naruto is constantly leaping to her defense, then how will Sakura ever develop on that front? Naruto would be fighting more of her battles for her and not only would Sakura hate that (for more than one reason) but she'd still be the paper and Sasuke the fire. Sakura needs to learn to stand up to herself when she comes to terms with her feelings and gets her own confidence. Naruto may be there for her, but he shouldn't suffocate her to the point she can't act for herself and that's what I like about him. He lets Sakura be her own person, for better or worse.

 

And tbh, if you're annoyed on why he doesn't defend Sakura as much from Sasuke, it's because Naruto sees Sasuke as "a victim of a system" and "the cycle of hate". It's not because his bond with Sasuke is stronger. He just excuses everything Sasuke does in the way he excused Obito for the same reason. It's idealistic philosophy,not just at Sasuke.

 

It's more of Naruto's characterization that should bother you IMO, not just how he is with Sasuke.

But if Naruto isn't going to do anything worth noting then she's never going to develop at all in that regard also. I see it going both ways tbh. I don't think she would hate it because Naruto has already somewhat defended her when Sasuke said she's dead weight, and she thanked Naruto afterwards. But it didn't solve anything as this chapter shows. So far she has turned into putty in the presence of Sasuke so Naruto's approach isn't turning out any better than my idea.

 

The abuse Sasuke has done to Sakura dates back way before Naruto took on the "cycle of hatred" belief. This stuff has been happening since part 1, not after the Pain arc.

 

And yes, I do have a problem with Naruto's characterization. But he excuses more on Sasuke's behalf than any other character in this series. 

Edited by luffyq1, 27 September 2014 - 03:06 AM.

[questdrivencollie]

Saw the SS arguments on tumblr....something about Sasuke not looking happy about puting her in a genjustsu. Whatever, none of my business.

 

Like some people on tumblr said, Congrats, Sasuke wasn't as big of a prick as he could have been.

Edited by questdrivencollie, 27 September 2014 - 03:07 AM.

[BlazingDynamo]

Let them be. If they can't see this chapter as the sinking of their ship, nothing else will.

LOL what? Dude pulled a Madara with his menacing face... And we all know how Madara was.

True that

[Iwantbuns]

And yes, I do have a problem with Naruto's characterization. But he excuses more on Sasuke's behalf than any other character in this series. 

 

That's cause he's his best friend.

 

Don't worry it annoys all of us.

[DarkRadeon]

Why is everyone ignoring Sakura's first angry face to Sasuke in 600+ chapters?Things may very well change after she wakes up
For example at the end of the fight both Naruto and Sasuke are down and she goes to Naruto first because he makes her happy

Besides Naruto already knew for a LONG time that she loved Sasuke.This confession was nothing new to him

Besides just think,supposing Sasuke is redeemed,what do you expect Sakura to say to Naruto "Thanks Naruto.I am going on a date with Sasuke noe.Bye". Nope

This is just a way for Sakura to come to terms with this Sasuke issue so that when NS happens there is no doubt

[luffyq1]

It's a matter of definition. Domestic abuse presupposes a relationship. There is hardly anything like that between Sasuke and Sakura. She's just a rock under his feet (which he kicks out of his way), not an object of manipulation. Unless Sasuke has always been a secret NS shipper.

 

Yack, I read some posts based on MS translation (I think so) and it made me sick. ( According to them Sakura will never be anything more than a victim/door mat to Sasuke's whims. Perhaps, I should take a break. The recent plotline is one big frustration. And the fandom chanting about sacrificial lambs starts to irk me. Even Naruto irks me now... and I genuinely love the orange goofball.

It may not embody the relationship aspect, but it does have certain elements of it. Like Sakura worrying over Sasuke and Sasuke telling her to mind her own damn business. Sasuke telling her she's useless after she asked a simple question. Sakura still being in love with him even after his attempts on her life. Sasuke smacking the food that she was about give to him. The list goes on and on. To me, it just reeks of domestic abuse without having the marriage or gf/bf aspect of it. Now if they were a couple from the very beginning of the series, it would without question be full blown domestic abuse issue.

Edited by luffyq1, 27 September 2014 - 03:28 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

@luffyq1:

 

Hmm ... I see what you mean. Naruto easily has the power to restore Sakura's confidence if he praised her a lot or said exactly what he thought about her. We've seen the affect of inspiration he has on her. But Naruto is not very open with his feelings and never really knew how badly Sakura's self-esteem was until 693 so never knew she needed it. Maybe Naruto will try more to help with that. The problem is I don't think he's aware how much he affects Sakura either.

IMO, I think Sakura would appreciate it for a while but it if happened too much she would start to feel bad because it's always him and she hates feeling useless. So it's kind of like if it's too much of one thing, positive or negative, either way Sakura will eventually feel bad about herself. There needs to be a balance.

 

Sasuke has always been abusive to Sakura, but Naruto defended her more against Sasuke in Part 1. The only time this has been starting to decease significantly was after  the "Sasuke is a victim of the system" excuse he got around the Kage Summit Arc and then the "cycle of hate" in the Pain arc. Sasuke never seriously belittled Sakura in front of him until after Naruto went through those character arcs.

 

But yeah, Naruto does excuse Sasuke more than the other villains because of their history together. There's no denying that. I just don't think the reason's limited to their bromance.  
 

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 27 September 2014 - 03:23 AM.