4869 replies to this topic

[RyrineaHaruno]

I have to say it is a pretty horrible phrase I think Sakura made a huge mistake in saying something like that.

She was basically stretching at that point.

I don't think it is a was horribly phrased when it does tend to ring true.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 17 January 2010 - 04:46 AM.

[ciardha]

I have to say it is a pretty horrible phrase I think Sakura made a huge mistake in saying something like that.

She was basically stretching at that point.

I can understand why it bugs you so much, but it's just the sort of self-deprecation Japanese women were traditionally taught to stop a man from from being shouting angry with them. (American women were taught a version of that too, you can see a lot of what our version of that was when you watch films and TV shows up to the later 1970's. As a child, I can remember seeing adult women, other than my feminist mom, acting that way with men if guys even expressed mild annoyance) I saw it as Sakura falling back to how her mother would have taught her to be around a boy she liked if he got angry at her. Nothing else got through to Naruto so in desperation she reached for something she had been told to do by her mom. We see Sakura do that desperate self-deprecation with Sasuke too in part 1, more than once. But back then she hadn't been taught to have much value in herself, so when it failed with Sasuke she just cried. When it failed with Naruto and he just got more angry Sakura got angry right back at him and that finally got him to calm down slightly. Heh, Sakura should have known saying she loved Naruto in angry voice would have sunk into Naruto's brain better, but she was feeling so awful about the POAL that she said it with all the tenderness in her heart.

[Miss Soupy]

I don't think it is a was horribly phrased when it does tend to ring true.

That doesn't say anything good about Sakura then, as far as her emotional depth or maturity :/ You don't tend to trust someone who acts like it was a sudden switch romantically, whether they are male or female.

In fact, I'd say that line alone really adds the feeling of insincerity to the whole conversation. If Sakura feels so desperate to get Naruto to believe her, why is it that all she can do is give him a crappy excuse like that? Rather than trying to sound more truthful, she essentially cops out and tries a really lame line. I can't say, at that point, I'd really blame Naruto for being mad at her.

I know I'm being pretty blunt, but honestly I hated that line XD

[RyrineaHaruno]

That doesn't say anything good about Sakura then, as far as her emotional depth or maturity :/ You don't tend to trust someone who acts like it was a sudden switch romantically, whether they are male or female.

In fact, I'd say that line alone really adds the feeling of insincerity to the whole conversation. If Sakura feels so desperate to get Naruto to believe her, why is it that all she can do is give him a crappy excuse like that? Rather than trying to sound more truthful, she essentially cops out and tries a really lame line. I can't say, at that point, I'd really blame Naruto for being mad at her.

I know I'm being pretty blunt, but honestly I hated that line XD

Its means that her heart slowly changed over time. Most women, do change their hearts after all. Trust me, it does tend to happen a lot when you're a young woman.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 17 January 2010 - 05:32 AM.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

In fact, I'd say that line alone really adds the feeling of insincerity to the whole conversation. If Sakura feels so desperate to get Naruto to believe her, why is it that all she can do is give him a crappy excuse like that? Rather than trying to sound more truthful, she essentially cops out and tries a really lame line. I can't say, at that point, I'd really blame Naruto for being mad at her.
I know I'm being pretty blunt, but honestly I hated that line XD

Oh is that the line, "where a woman's heart, is like an autumn sky.?"
Is it me, but Sakura is teaching/telling Naruto what is a woman's heart, that Naruto doesn't know. Prior to that Sakura told Naruto to listen to her carefully, when someone is confessing their feelings. If she lied then, listening to a confession can be said a lie

[ciardha]

That doesn't say anything good about Sakura then, as far as her emotional depth or maturity :/ You don't tend to trust someone who acts like it was a sudden switch romantically, whether they are male or female.

In fact, I'd say that line alone really adds the feeling of insincerity to the whole conversation. If Sakura feels so desperate to get Naruto to believe her, why is it that all she can do is give him a crappy excuse like that? Rather than trying to sound more truthful, she essentially cops out and tries a really lame line. I can't say, at that point, I'd really blame Naruto for being mad at her.

Nothing else was getting through so she fell back in to what she'd been taught to do as a child, self-deprecate. Like I said we see her do the same thing with Sasuke more than once in part 1. Didn't work with Sasuke either and she cried when it didn't work with Sasuke because she didn't have enough self value back then. Tsunade taught her self-value- which is why it isn't something she says straight off, but only after nothing else was getting through. But Naruto just got more angry and that finally got Sakura angry and frustrated enough she expressed her feelings in an angry tone and that finally got through enough that Naruto calmed down slightly.

Naruto just doesn't seem to take in being told the truth in a kind and gentle way very well: being told of Jiraiya's death- verbally lashes out at Tsunade, his reaction to Minato's revelation- punched him in the stomach, Sakura's confession- got into an argument, Gaara's words about Sasuke- threw the gentle hand on his shoulder off violently

Edited by ciardha, 17 January 2010 - 06:26 AM.

[Devil Keyz]

Exactly. And Kishimoto said about 469-70: "On the contrary, I felt I was writing an honest and surprisingly determined girl" Thus yes, Sakura was telling the truth about her feelings for Naruto, straight from the author.

It's been certain since their introduction that Sakura would end up with Naruto. It's a classic manga plotline- In chapter 3 it looked like it might be the typical but fun tsundere storyline, but Kishimoto made Sakura a far more rounded character than just making her a typical tsundere. In chapter 5 he already shows that despite her fangirling Sasuke she already is willing to risk her life to get Naruto out of danger, that she is upset and disgusted with Kakashi bullying Naruto, and yes, even some unconscious feelings for Naruto- she blushes at his heroic daring and is in awe. Contrary to the bashers negative portrayal of Sakura, Kishimoto shows almost immediately Sakura's willingness to risk her life for Naruto, empathy with him, and unconscious romantic feelings for him. In the typical tsundere storyline this doesn't happen for quite a while. It shows that in early part 1 Sakura already had an attraction to both Naruto and Sasuke. Interesting contrast as well to how Sakura acts even early on when she perceives Naruto is in danger vs Sasuke in danger. When it's Naruto she acts immediately, heroically risking her life, with Sasuke she's frozen on the spot and panicky.

It looks like the Sakura bashing letters (that Kishimoto has already expressed annoyance about) have made Kishimoto decide to bring Sakura's romantic feelings for Naruto and heroism even more front and center than they already were. It has probably insured a narusaku kiss will be right there on the page of a future chapter. I'm not going to be surprised if it's a double paged spread- with tons of observers like in 450.

I agree, i think kishi was already going to make NaruSaku cannon, but with all the Sakura bashing from NH fan's, I to, think he is going to make her feelings more Front, and make them get together faster, even tho i don't read the manga i watch the Anime lol

[catsi563]

(Onnagokoro to aki no sora) -- (lit. The heart of a woman in fall sky) A woman's heart is like the autumn sky (ever changing and not easily predicted).

japanese proverb

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

@catsi.
AWESOME! I didnt know it was a japanese proverb.
NO DOUBT it is true then. Another point, Sakura's Confession is GENUINE!

[firegirl]

whats an japanese proverb

[fireandice]

In my opinion, Sakura's using the "autumn sky" proverb may have some other cultural significance in Japanese then in other languages, if you get my drift...

But anyway, I think her main point was to try to get it into Naruto's head that his impression of her feelings for Sasuke being a deep-rooted romantic love was a misconception. She's trying to mainly say that her feelings can- and have changed.

Anyway, when I was reading it, I thought she actually seemed to know that even if she confessed, Naruto would never agree to kill Sasuke, that's one reason why she did not even mention that to him. I think from the very beginning she knew that it would be useless trying to convince him, Naruto needed to himself come round to the fact that the Sasuke he knows is dead.

I think that Sasuke could have found redemption even after he left for Orochimaru, and even after Itachi's death, he cared about Team Hawk. But during the attack at the Kage summit, he has completely changed.

Edited by fireandice, 17 January 2010 - 10:24 AM.

[Gravenimage]

N/H and S/S fans have always been desperate to a point that the translators themselves will messed with the manga translations when it involves the pairings to mistranslate the 2010 interview. However their desperation is clouding their judgement to even think straight and logically. We have to be realistic here Sakura is the heroine of the manga now what kind of heroine will she be if she lies to Naruto that she loves him to go find Sasuke and then tells him that he's the one she loves and not Naruto? I'm sorry but so far Kishi's development on Sakura has been positive I doubt that he will make her development negative to turn her into a horrible heroine she's already hated a lot. Now that Kishi has decided to focus her heroine role I just hope she really become a good heroine even if everyone will continue to hate her because she has character and a temper and she's "supposedly " in the way of N/H.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Guys, I really dont understand what is wrong about "Autumn skies"
The Anti NS labeled us "Fickle as the Autumn Skies"
Oh well..

[Gravenimage]

Guys, I really dont understand what is wrong about "Autumn skies"
The Anti NS labeled us "Fickle as the Autumn Skies"
Oh well..

This proves my point of their desperation when it comes to mess with translations in the manga.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

..oh I agree, Graven
But I still dont catch their drift,

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

another debate..

Sakura's confession was all about Sasuke. Why she was stupid to fall for him and why she so blindly not notice Naruto...

Worst, she asked Naruto to stop chasing after Sasuke. If Sakura really knew Naruto, would she say that?

http://www.mangafox....50/c469/11.html

Notice from above that Naruto is determined to find out why after she said that. He was mildly convinced.

http://www.mangafox....50/c469/12.html

Here, immediately after Sakura said stop chasing Sasuke, Naruto's expression changed.
Obviously, something sinked in. And that is not Sakura loving Naruto. See Yamato's reaction?

http://www.mangafox....50/c469/15.html

She sounds as if she was trying to convince herself to fall for Naruto. Refer to the rest of the people's reaction before.

Why should Naruto let go of the past? It was the time with Sasuke that brought him the most joy. His playing around with Sakura. Obviously, Sakura is not over the idea of Sasuke.

He hyperventilated because of that and more. I think he was handling more.

Do you really want me to go into full details why Sakura's confession was fake and that she don't deserve Naruto?

I could but I don't want to hurt you, you know. You are a NaruSaku fan right? Haha...

Yah. I agree. We could continue here. I don't want to bother the rest.

What do you think guys?

[firegirl]

another debate..


What do you think guys?

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wow(and i thought people i debate with are hardheaded )
but ill think of something later to reply

Edited by firegirl, 17 January 2010 - 05:00 PM.

[Miss Soupy]

Its means that her heart slowly changed over time. Most women, do change their hearts after all. Trust me, it does tend to happen a lot when you're a young woman.

No, it means her heart is ever changing like the autumn sky. It means she is unpredictable in her emotional state. It means, I can love you one moment and not love you the next. So once again, why the heck do you tell someone you are confessing to that you are essentially emotionally unstable?

And the anti-NS fans basically exchanged 'ever changing' for 'fickle'. It's not really that unfair of a comparison, though they are putting more emphasis on it than should be done. I do agree the japanese context of the line is probably less harsh than it is to us American fans, but still...

Hopefully Sakura will just re-do the whole confession thing. She can surely be much more sincere.

Sakura's confession was all about Sasuke. Why she was stupid to fall for him and why she so blindly not notice Naruto...

It wasn't really all about Sasuke. It has more like half Sasuke, half Naruto. She basically compared the two to give a reason why she chose Naruto over Sasuke.

Worst, she asked Naruto to stop chasing after Sasuke. If Sakura really knew Naruto, would she say that?

Actually, we don't really know if Sakura expected Naruto to give up on Sasuke. There is a good chance she knew he wouldn't, but was desperate enough to try. Either way, she most likely knew she was going to be the one trying to kill him on her own.

She sounds as if she was trying to convince herself to fall for Naruto. Refer to the rest of the people's reaction before.

In a way she does sound like that, but then again, Naruto did ask her why. To me it seems like she was trying to convince herself she didn't care about Sasuke rather than to convince herself that Naruto was a better person. While with the former she was lying to herself, the latter she was being honest about.