19964 replies to this topic

[Branden]

well what should we discuss if everyone wont discuss sasukarin. we've already beaten to hell everything in the manga, so what's left?

[Gravenimage]

This post alone makes me want go works things out with ciardha. Ciardha if you're reading this, I just want to say i'm cool with dropping everything that happened in the past and keep it there.

Glad you want to patch things up with ciardha because you should know not that I like pointing fingers your argument with her is the reason why the mods closed the RTN thread.

[Heaven on Earth]

i was secretly hoping that thread would get closed for a while, people kept talking about the same things over and over again or worse getting off topic. hopefully we can all learn a lesson from this. anyways, does anyone have that compilation of sasukarin develoupment yet? i cant find one anywhere.

I'd give you some, it's looooooong to read

Warning: SasuKarin --Click here to view--

SASUKARIN

“Come with me, Karin. I need you”

“If you reeeeally need me, I’ll go with you”



Their Development.



As you’re all aware, Karin and in consequence SasuKarin, were introduced pretty late into the manga; up to now (Chapter 459) they’ve been present for barely 111 chapters, and in like 70+ or so of those, they haven’t shown up at all. So the material we have to work with it’s actually from more or less 23+ chapters at the very least.



Merely 23 chapters. One would think that since that’s such a small number, compared to the 450+ chapters that the manga has actually had, then the material we’d get is fairly limited.



Alas, that’s not the case. And in those mere 23 chapters SasuKarin has gotten more moments and development than 99% of the pairings in the series. That should be telling enough on its own. But since without explanations this manifesto wouldn’t be needed, I’ll expand on those 23 chapters a little bit more.

Everything—really—starts with chapter 348, where Sasuke and Suigetsu make their way towards Karin’s prison so that Sasuke can recruit her; because, as he tells Suigetsu, she has unique abilities and he needs her.



This early on the game, and there’s already something that’s worth of notice; when he recruits Suigetsu, and later when he recruits Juugo, he never, ever tells them that he needs them. Ever. The only one to get such a request—“Come with me, Karin. I need you”—is Karin. That automatically sets her apart from her other two teammates, but actually, it not only singles her out from them but from every girl Sasuke has ever interacted with. Why? Because Sasuke’s acknowledgement is not easy to gain, and much less an acknowledgement that expands from your abilities to your persona—Alas, Karin has it. She’s the only girl that Sasuke deems as useful—which coming from him, is one hell of a compliment—and the only girl that Sasuke truly acknowledges and respects in such a way.



Sasuke’s respect for her is also shown in various instances; like, whenever Karin talks back to him, insults him, questions his logic (or lack of it), etc—Sasuke never, ever, reacts negatively to her. Instead, he’ll listen to her words and then offer some reasoning of his own; whether it’s to disagree, explain to her his own plan of action, etc, he has never told her to “mind her own business”, “be quiet”, or even worse, “If you don’t like it, leave” like he has said to Suigetsu. He has never said to her anything disrespectful like that, even though 99.9% of the time she (and not Suigetsu or Juugo) is the one to question him. That much also shows that he respects her opinion as well.



Truth is, that Sasuke on his own chose and acknowledged Karin; he saw something in her, and that something caught his interest, and she earned his recognition and his respect. Something that also becomes consideration, which is the word that best encompasses, I believe, Sasuke’s end on their bond; he’s considerate with Karin. From her opinion to her wellbeing, he’s considerate with it all. And when has he been considerate with anything, really?



This ‘consideration’ I’m alluding to, was also reflected back in chapter 352, where when Suigetsu teases Karin and makes her angry, Sasuke is annoyed and tells him to “Stop messing with Karin. I told you to cooperate with her” and then when Karin is the one to annoy Suigetsu, Suigetsu is the one to get a warning, as Sasuke watches him frown and goes “Suigetsu…”—But Karin? Karin doesn’t get such a thing. Two chapters before that, in 350, Karin tricks Suigetsu into going in the wrong direction and ditches him, so that she has to take only Sasuke to Juugo; Sasuke asks her why she did she do it, and Karin’s answer is that Suigetsu is an obnoxious jerk and that she cannot stand him; what does Sasuke do? Nothing. Nothing at all. Instead of telling her to go and get Suigetsu back or even lecture her for her action, he doesn’t complain at all. He plays her game instead, saying “Let me go, I can walk by myself” but doing nothing to pull away as Karin drags him by his wrist to Juugo’s cell.



And that’s not the only time such a thing has happened, either; in chapter 364, Suigetsu once again teases Karin and she reacts more violently than ever. Quite literally starting to beat the crap out of him; and what does Sasuke do? He watches. Not saying a word. In fact they’re all so engrossed in it than none of the three notice that Juugo was losing control of himself until it was too late.



In details like these, it’s easy to see this consideration I was mentioning either, just like it’s easy to notice what might as well be seeds for something else; because, fact is, isn’t it weird that Sasuke asks Suigetsu to cooperate with Karin, but never asks Karin to cooperate with Suigetsu? Never lectures or warns her about anything? Allows her to do as she pleases?



And some may try to disregard this as useless, but this is Sasuke we’re talking about. These are the type of stuff that actually does count.



But there’s more. Of course there’s more, because if there’s something that characterizes SasuKarin, is the fact that the development they’ve gotten is well-rounded. What do I mean by that? I mean that their development has been gradual, realistic and continuous; and it’s formed by both, subtle hints (like the ones I just mentioned) and obvious ones, like the ones I’m just about addressing.



The biggest and most obvious SasuKarin moments we’ve gotten so far come in the form of two chapters during the Taka vs Killerbee fight; that’s right, two chapters. One dedicated (as in, the main focus of it) pretty much in its entirety to them, and the other where a good bunch of it was dedicated to them, too. That alone seems to me like quite the treatment for a pairing that’s supposed to not mean anything; especially considering that both chapters not only have mutual moments between them, but the most emotional stuff is actually coming from Sasuke. Sasuke.



Regardless, before discussing the meaning of those two chapters, I’m going to address the Taka vs Hachibi fight as a whole, which starts in chapter 410 and finishes in chapter 415. 5 chapters, 2 of which were dedicated to SasuKarin, and where the remaining 3 had important moments which showcased Sasuke’s trust in her, the way he relies on her, and also the way they care about each other.



The Hachibi fight was there to highlight Taka, and help them bond even further, so that Sasuke could realize that he’s not alone and fully accept them; however, the bond that was highlighted the most wasn’t Sasuke-Suigetsu or Sasuke-Juugo, no. It was SasuKarin.



We start with chapter 410, where Sasuke takes his usual approach to things; meaning, he is completely arrogant, underestimating his enemy and believing the fight will be a piece of cake. So he tells them that he’ll “Capture him [The Hachibi]” and tells Suigetsu “To go right” and Juugo to “Go left”, to Karin? To Karin, he says “Karin, you watch my back”.



We’re in the first chapter of the fight, but that already shows two things: One, he trusts her with his blind spot. He trusts that if the situation merits it, she’ll be able to assist and help him save his ass; he knows that he can rely on her and does so. The second, he’d rather she stay out of the fight, and remain as support; which is, in turn, consideration for her wellbeing. And it’s interesting to notice the fact that indeed, Karin isn’t the offensive type, and because of this, it’d be understandable if she gets in the way; but Sasuke has never been shown to consider her a nuisance because of it, and in fact she’s the teammate that he relies on the most. He trusts her; and it’s no wonder why when despite the fact that she isn’t the offensive type, Karin actually doesn’t get in the way and can fetch for herself just fine.



That doesn’t mean that Sasuke won’t make sure to guarantee her safety, though; like he showed back in chapter 350, and like he’s showing here.



Anyways, chapter 410 mostly focuses on other characters that have nothing to do with Taka, but when we get back to them, is to see that both Juugo and Suigetsu have been defeated. What does Sasuke do? He calmly steps in, not showing any sign of distress at all, and proceeds to tell them that he’d deal with the Hachibi. While he’s at it, he also mentions how they “Are the ones using Akatsuki. Try to keep that in mind” and we’re shown Taka’s individual reactions; Suigetsu goes “heh” and Juugo goes “Of course” but Karin? Karin’s thought is “Sasuke… you’re the coolest! I knew you’d never stop to being someone else’s errand boy!”

I emphasize that sentence, because quite honestly, that is the part that truly matters; we know that Karin thinks that Sasuke is cool. Everyone thinks that, it’s nothing awe-worthy. But the rest of the sentence, more precisely, hers “I knew—” goes to show something quite simple: she knows Sasuke. Right here, she’s not saying that Sasuke is “cool” because he’s good-looking, or because he looks badass, or because he has done a wonderful technique; no, right here Karin is saying that he’s the coolest because of his personality. And it’s not even because of his aloofness, which is the usual thing that girls fawn about him; no, it’s because of the fact that he’s a strong soul who yields to no one. Just like her.



So right here, Karin showed that the thing that she admires about him; what truly makes her think that he’s “the coolest” is precisely the traits that make him, him. His personality. And this is actually backed up by the only other time that Karin thought “Oh Sasuke, you’re the coolest!” because it was as Sasuke was making it clear to Suigetsu and Juugo just whom was the one who had the power in there—and that’s also part of him being someone who yields to no one. So Karin is above all, attracted to his personality; being physically attracted to him is just a plus. In fact, the only time that she has been shown thinking that he’s good-looking, it came to her almost as an afterthought, back in chapter 363, where she thinks that “Sasuke injured looks cool, too”—and that goes to show the fact that even though he’s tattered and bloodied, a complete mess, she still likes him just fine.



Back to the chapters at hand, in what’s remaining of chapter 411, Sasuke proceeds to get his ass handed to him—Karin showing concern for his wellbeing while he’s at it. Now, we have arrived to chapter 412; the moment that made many blink twice in order to make sure they weren’t seeing things. Because seriously, was this Naruto? Was this Uchiha Sasuke?

Chapter 412 begins with Sasuke falling thanks to the attack of the Hachibi, Karin yelling his name, and Juugo running towards the scene; with the help of Juugo and Suigetsu who team up to attack the Hachibi, Karin is able to get in herself and singlehandedly pull Sasuke away of danger’s way, taking him to a safe area where she proceeds to extract all the swords impaled on him; never once losing her clear mind, even though it was obvious she was worried because of the state Sasuke was in. Then, comes the moment.



Karin pulls up her sleeve, revealing that she’s got biting-marks marking her whole arm; biting-marks that she’s obviously been hiding under those long-sleeves, which gives away the fact that she’s not happy with them, and neither does she consider them pretty. Alas, what must be done must be done, and Sasuke’s life is at stake; so she doesn’t hesitate, reveals them to him, and asks him to bite her arm. They look into each other’s eyes, and then Sasuke proceeds to bite her. Without any hesitance or second thought. And this, I found interesting; because Sasuke’s lack of surprise meant that he had either seen those before (which in turn makes one wonder why, when and how) or that he simply trusts her that much, as to not even inquire why the hell he should bite her. Or perhaps, it’s a mixture of the two.



Of course, as Sasuke sucks on her chakra, Karin has a positive reaction to it in a way that it seems like she’s having an orgasm; so as if the whole “bite me” thing wasn’t sexual enough, her reaction was sure to completely settle the air of sexuality the scene had.



But for me, the most vital thing in this whole chapter doesn’t come until immediately afterwards, where after Sasuke’s wounds have closed, he sits, and tells her “You saved me, Karin” and she replies with an “Aa” which means more or less, a “Yeah”.



That is extremely relevant, because when has Sasuke acknowledged anyone’s help in the way he acknowledged hers? Even going as far as to tell her that she saved him? Not even a nonchalant “Thanks for that, Karin” no. He gives her complete acknowledgement and gratitude for her help, and Karin, instead of boasting or trying to act nonchalant about it, replies with a simple “Yeah…”. And afterwards, the two of them stay like that, sitting together, as Karin regains her breath; it is a tender moment. A moment where Sasuke is not only accepting, but giving, too.



Then comes chapter 413, and right from the start we see Sasuke reacting differently to his surroundings; Suigetsu, Juugo and him have decided to attack together this time, like the team they are, and Sasuke is finally taking the Hachibi seriously. Alas, what I was truly making reference to when I said that he was ‘reacting differently’ was actually this. If you remember, just a few paragraphs ago I mentioned how when Suigetsu and Juugo got beaten at the start of the battle, Sasuke merely entered it as if nothing had happened at all.



But this time, what is the difference this time? That Sasuke is shown to be clearly concerned for his teammate’s wellbeing, and he actually hurries and makes his way towards them, to inquire whether they were alright or not. It’s worthy of notice though, that another clear difference that sets this scene apart from the one at the beginning, is the fact that this is the first time during the battle that Karin is in danger. This is the first time that she’s directly involved, and might end up hurt; just like it is the first time that Sasuke shows obvious concern during the battle. Coincidence? Up to your choice, but I think no. And I actually believe that there are facts backing up that conclusion; facts that I’ll mention on the following paragraphs.



In chapter 413, Sasuke gets hurt for the second time. By running towards them, he wasn’t careful and he left an opening; the Hachibi was too fast for any of them, and Sasuke got his torso blown off. Juugo catches him in midair, and Karin proceeds to hurriedly make her way towards him. Once again, she shows obvious worry and shock as she sees the state he was in—worse that he has been. Ever. But again, she doesn’t waste any time and doesn’t lose her clear head, quickly proceeding to pull down the top of her shirt only to reveal yet more biting marks covering her torso. It’s obvious she had the intention to heal Sasuke, even if that meant losing all her chakra and ending up completely exhausted; but Juugo tells her that she has done enough, and that he’d take care of it.



He does just that, and in chapter 414, Sasuke luckily has awakened. Karin though, wastes no time; regardless of the fact that she again shows genuine care for his wellbeing, as she thinks to herself “Thank God, you’re okay she tells him instead “Are you awake, Sasuke? Come on, get a grip!” and makes sure that he knows the gravity of the situation, also helping him and supporting his body as they make a run for it. In the following two pages, we’re shown Sasuke’s reply as both Juugo and Suigetsu risk their lives for him. Juugo, who saved him just like Karin did two chapters ago, got a “Juugo…” and the same thing was given to Suigetsu as he risks himself to give the other 3 time to escape. See the difference?



By the end of chapter 414, comes the moment as far as Team development goes. As Karin tells him that “We won’t get away… what do we do!?” and Sasuke proceeds to stare at his fallen teammates one at a time. First, Suigetsu, who is completely disintegrated. Then, Juugo, who looks like a kid. And lastly, is Karin, who is completely torn up. So basically, he goes from: Karin, Suigetsu, Juugo and back to Karin again, and then come the flashbacks. First comes Karin’s, then Juugo’s and lastly Suigetsu’s.



After this, Sasuke closes his eyes, recalls Team 7 for the first time and only time in Part II as a whole, and then he opens his eyes and uses Amateratsu. The sidetext illustrates it pretty well, “He remembers that he isn’t alone. Sasuke puts everything he has in Amateratsu!”



Basically, the guy is doing it to protect Taka. Just like they protected him; right here, he has acknowledged their bonds, and is responding to them.



“Who will survive the clash…?! Next issue, “SASUKE’S DECISION”!”



And lastly, we get Chapter 415. The SasuKarin chapter by excellence for reasons that are pretty obvious and straight-forward.



As the Hachibi falls and starts being consumed by Amateratsu, Sasuke is attacked by pain in his eye; he’s in no condition to run, Juugo is helping Suigetsu, and the only one who notices the danger and acts is Karin. So Karin grabs Sasuke and Juugo who is carrying Suigetsu, and makes a run for it. Holding all of them. But then the Hachibi falls and the strength of it is enough to send them jumping in the air, and while Karin manages to get them out of the way of danger, she’s not so lucky herself.



And that’s when Sasuke reacts. He raises his head, only to witness how a huge tentacle was just about to fall above Karin, which would completely crush her. Look at the lines drawn around him; not even Karin, who is the one with one foot on the grave, has them. Plus, the way they’re drawn was a nice detail; there she is, seconds away from be killed, and their eyes met. And it’s there that Sasuke cuts the tentacle, pulling chakra out of God knows where, succeeding in saving Karin. Or so they thought.



Sasuke is, again, quick to notice the fact that Karin’s life was in danger again, as a tentacle burning with the black flames is about to hit Karin from behind. Hurriedly, Sasuke screams at her to “Run!” but there was no way to avoid it, and Karin is hit.



Sasuke’s reaction is raw, and immediate; take a look at the way every panel in the page is drawn with motion lines around. Since there’s barely any movement, there’s no other point to them but to emphasize the emotion of the situation; the anxiety, the shock, everything.



Look at the frame in the top-right corner. Look at Sasuke, the guy is completely freaked out, panicked to his bones; his prime reaction is actually to attempt to get up and make his way towards her, but Juugo stops him. He tells him things like they are.



“Forget her! We need to run before the fire consumes us, too!”

“Wait, Juugo!”

“No!”



Sasuke refuses to leave her behind. Even though he must know that it’s impossible to turn off those flames; even though he knows that Juugo is right, if they stay, they die; the three of them. But Sasuke wouldn’t listen, he decides to risk all their lives in the offhand chance that there might actually be a way of saving Karin.



His drive is so strong, his determination and will are so unwavering, that as he looks at her, and calls her name on his mind “Karin!” he manages to unleash a new power. A new ability of his sharingan. All of it, to save Karin.



And he manages to put those flames out, contrary to what any probability would’ve said. Then he’s assaulted by a new pain in his eyes, but yet again, that doesn’t stop him from noticing first the fact that Karin was, again, in danger; “Juugo, get Karin! Now!” he yells, once again showing raw emotion, something very rare in him.



But he does it in this chapter over and over again, and solely thanks to one girl: Karin.



One thing I found quite telling about all this, looking at the story itself instead of the characters on it, is that quite honestly it’d have fit a lot better if Juugo was the one who was in Karin’s place. Why? Because physically he’s the strongest one out of the bunch; sure thing he’s turning into a child, but he showed pretty clearly that he was still strong as he got a hold of Karin and brought her to where they were, so he’d have been perfectly capable of getting Sasuke, Karin and Suigetsu out of harms way. Besides that, the way he was so ready to leave Karin behind; Juugo, who’s usually naturally kind. That role would’ve been more befitting of Karin, who regardless of her feelings, will always have a clear-head and think of the probabilities and most logical plans of action.



Alas, that’s not how Kishimoto wanted it to happen; it happened between Sasuke and Karin for a reason. And that it’s pretty meaningful on its own, even without looking at how huge that chapter is for SasuKarin.



After all this, Taka really didn’t show up much; in fact they went in hiatus for like 30 chapters. But when they did show up again, for those of us who are aware, it was quite easy to notice the fact that one thing hadn’t changed: Kishimoto was still highlighting Sasuke and Karin among Taka. Focusing on their reactions, their thought process, everything, above the other two.



For example, we have chapter 453. In this chapter, there are two things that happen that I thought were worth taking a look at; after Sasuke attacks Tobi and lands on the branch directly in front of Karin, and Tobi mentions that something happened to Konoha, Sasuke has a visible reaction. But he remains silent. As such, who’s the one to inquire about Konoha for him? That’s right, Karin. Who doesn’t give a damn about Konoha, and doesn’t have any reasons to do so, but she still asks directly after Sasuke’s reaction was shown. And this is not the only time such a thing happens in the chapter; later after Suigetsu suggests that they should go directly to the place where the Hokage’s meeting is being held, Karin doesn’t complain at all. But when Sasuke is shown being all “…” Karin does react, and turns towards Suigetsu to give him a reproaching look. In the following panel, Sasuke confirms that he has indeed accepted Suigetsu’s reaction, and Karin is shown thinking that “Ugh… things just got a whole lot more complicated” which confirms that she had, indeed, read his exp​ression and anticipated what his words would be, since otherwise she’d have glared at Suigetsu from the start.



I also think it’s interesting to note how Karin seems to be the only one who isn’t happy at all with them going to the Hokage meeting. I believe that this might come to play a role later, though of course, this is purely speculation from my part.



And that’s basically where we are right now. I obviously didn’t comment on a few things, because I wanted to focus on pointing out the subtle ones and the meaning behind the major ones, instead of pointing out everything. But here is a list of all the chapters Sasuke and Karin have had any moments or talked, so you might want to take a look at that. Because casually, out of like, 28 chapters that have Taka in them, at least 23 have SasuKarin in various shapes and forms.

Well, I know some of you dont like SK. It's a note from my friend. She tagged me on Fb and, well, She left me awe
I'm not a big shipper for this pair, but I kinda like it. Well, I always imagine if in the end, the battle of Sasuke and Naruto, Sakura would be in Naruto's side while Karin on Sasuke's.

they medic nin, ne?

Did Karin know about her clan?
I hope, in the end, she stab Sasuke from behind before she forgive him. I hope she'll do it, for herself, for Sasuke's sake, and of course for Naruto too. IF, Sasuke ends up alive, I hope he lost his sight, so Karin would be join him, go around the world. Sasuke would never back to Konoha afterall.

So, SasuKarin and of course NaruSaku XD

[ciardha]

well what should we discuss if everyone wont discuss sasukarin. we've already beaten to hell everything in the manga, so what's left?

Hmm, thinking subjects only the most tangently related to the title character is best, kind of like what you said anything closely related to him and pairings have been argued to death.

Have a couple-

Do you think Land of Waves is the same place as the former Whirlpool country? Why or Why not?

What other characters do you think will be revealed to be of the Uzumaki clan before the manga ends? What is the reason why you think they are an Uzumaki?

[sushi.]

Hmm, thinking subjects only the most tangently related to the title character is best, kind of like what you said anything closely related to him and pairings have been argued to death.

Have a couple-

Do you think Land of Waves is the same place as the former Whirlpool country? Why or Why not?

What other characters do you think will be revealed to be of the Uzumaki clan before the manga ends? What is the reason why you think they are an Uzumaki?

If that's true, then Mei may as well be an Uzumaki.

I don't think that Gaara is, but how the heck did he get so much chakra that he could control sand ? (without any sort of handsigns or help from the Shukaku)

But it sure would've been fun with three Uzumaki kage's one day!! XD

[tricksie]

This post alone makes me want go works things out with ciardha. Ciardha if you're reading this, I just want to say i'm cool with dropping everything that happened in the past and keep it there.

It's always good to try to patch things up. No matter how the other party feels. Just get yourself right. Good on you, halfstar.

[Branden]

I cannot support SasuKarin. It would make me hypocritical since my point onto why SasuSaku won't happen is because Sasuke doesn't care about her and tried to kill her. If Karin goes back to Sasuke, I will lose all my respect for her just like if Sakura would go back to Sasuke.

hmm, I'm not going to say that he never cared for Karin after what I've read, but I will say that he certainly discarded all feelings when he betrayed her. I'm curious to see how people think Karin will forgive Sasuke for that, and how Sasuke can trust that she's forgiven him.

[ciardha]

This post alone makes me want go works things out with ciardha. Ciardha if you're reading this, I just want to say i'm cool with dropping everything that happened in the past and keep it there.

Don't feel it's appropriate to discuss this on the live forum. Send me a PM and we'll talk about it.

[Transformers03]

I just went to the narutoforums website, and went to see the thread about the sixth Naruto movie and the debate thread about all the pairings. I found it funny that in the movie thread, some of the people were getting annoyed by the fact a lot of people are talking about pairings. I'll probably get annoyed too......BUUUUUT the movie was very supportive for the pairing I'm rooting for, so I like some of more pro-narusaku comments on that thread.

The debate thread about the pairings, however..............just ticked me off. It ticked me off, because I still find it hard to believe that there are still so many people against us. Not only that, but some of the arguments were frustrating to read. It is those reasons why I don't no longer read debate threads about Naruto pairings anymore, because after awhile, BOTH sides will start saying STUPID arguments. They get stupid, because both sides become to stubborn to admit when the other may have a point, and instead throw out dumb arguments that will lead to nowhere. In the end, no one will be convinced, and it will just end up with two sides arguing with each other just for the sake of arguing.

But that wasn't the case in that thread, what bother me is that we are still having this same old arguments use against us and we are still using the same counter arguments against them (and vice-versa). After all these years, and especially with the stuff that has happen in/with the latest movie, you assume that at this point that some may have realized that we MAY have point, or AT LEAST have come up with new (and better) arguments. I guess you can say the same thing for the opposite fandom, but to me not really. Like someone posted here not to long ago, we have A LOT more 'ammo' to use against them, we should be the ones that are 'winning', yet there still many who argue against us.

In fact, of what I've checked on that specific site, it still seems like Naruhina is still very popular. Of course that just one site, but still, on the Anti-Narusaku thread there was about 1800 people who voted on their own reasons why they don't like Narusaku. That's kind of a lot of people. I just don't understand people's reasoning at time, and, if you really knew me in real life, means something coming from my mouth (or technical hands, because I'm typing this). Everything in my head points to Narusaku being the end game, but a lot of people don't think so. Is there something wrong with how I see things (which matches with most of the other people on this site), or that people online are just..............either dumb, weird, stubborn, or just trolls.

...........

You know what, I think I just answer my own question.

[Don-kun]

@Transformers03


So you're saying that Don-kun arguments are silly?


Brenden you're gating the wrong Message I only want T's opinion of my post on the debate thread.

Edited by NS means logic, 11 August 2012 - 06:13 AM.

[Transformers03]

@Transformers03


So you're saying that Don-kun arguments are silly?


Brenden you're gating the wrong Message I only want T's opinion of my post on the debate thread.

No, I said that wasn't the case in that thread. I was mostly talking about how I'm very frustrating about the whole pairing debate thing, and how, at this point, their shouldn't be much of a debate. If there should be debate, we should be 'winning' that debate, because we have a lot more manga proof. But no, the other won't back down, and we (Narusaku fan base) are still smaller than the Naruhina fan base. I only mention the fact that I hate the debates, because I wanted to mention why I don't read debate threads anymore when other pairing fandoms are involved. I probably worded it wrong, and you probably thought I was talking about all the arguments that were presented there, when in reality I'm just tired of those whole 'pairing wars' thing, because I believe there shouldn't be much of a debate at this point.

Also, I'm assuming you're Don-Kun (if not, then this would be silly), so I just I wanted to say you made some great arguments. In fact, I thought the Narusaku arguments were pretty solid at that debate thread. What was frustrating to me was seeing people counter arguing against those arguments. It wasn't the fact that they were being mean or rude, they weren't (or, at least, of what I read), it was the fact they were arguing against some manga facts, and they were same arguments I've seen being made in countless other websites. Like we never seen Naruto stop loving Sakura, yet they still debate that he doesn't any more. There are panels that show Sakura blushing at Naruto and it has been hinted her feelings for him may go beyond friendship, yet they still debate that is not true.

To me, at this point, I honestly don't think some pairing fans are blinded by their preference. I honestly believe they just don't see it going that direction, which makes me doubt my own judgment, because I don't see the series going to the Naruhina direction. Maybe it just me(us) that don't see it going to end Naruhina, and they are the ones that are right. But then again I have a lot more manga support, anime support (all those OPs and EDs, and other little things (like their 'dates')), parallels, and, oh, the recent Naruto movie that KISHI was in charged with. So my mind is at ease with that evidence, though that makes me beg the question again of why they are so many Naruhina fans and why they honestly believe it will end Naruhina.

[KnS]

Everything in my head points to Narusaku being the end game, but a lot of people don't think so. Is there something wrong with how I see things (which matches with most of the other people on this site), or that people online are just..............either dumb, weird, stubborn, or just trolls.

No, there's nothing wrong with how you see things. And while we don't agree with earnest anti-NS shippers, there's nothing "wrong" with how they see things either. Not everyone who dislikes or argues against NS is "dumb, weird, stubborn, or just trolls." For some it's simply an honest matter of perspective and they argue what they see.

For example:



Do you see a duck or a rabbit?

Some people will rightly argue that they see a duck, and others will rightly argue that they see a rabbit. The people who see a duck aren't saying it to be stubborn or trollish, they say it because it's what they see. Unless there is acceptance that the drawing can be seen differently, the argument of what it is will go on indefinitely.

Fandom arguments, especially pairing arguments, boil down to how we as individuals perceive what's in front of us. It's based on our life experiences, our feelings, even down to the wiring of our brains. Traditional relationship constructs, values, culture, tropes, idioms, etc. -- they all have an influence on our perspective and how we process what we see.

Pairings appeal to people for different reasons. Let's say NS fans all see a rabbit. There still comes a point where we have to agree to let others shippers see the duck.

Kishimoto will eventually make it clear whether he's drawn a rabbit or a duck. But even if he says it's a rabbit, some people will never see it, and will still insist it's a duck. Because that's what they see.

[Codus N]

For some reason, you posting that image feels trollish.... but I like the point you're getting at. Yes, you're right everyone has different perspectives on what they see. The key is to not degrade yourself down to the lowest level by bashing & insulting.

[KnS]

For some reason, you posting that image feels trollish....

LOL. Why does it feel trollish? I don't get why you'd think that.

[Transformers03]

No, there's nothing wrong with how you see things. And while we don't agree with earnest anti-NS shippers, there's nothing "wrong" with how they see things either. Not everyone who dislikes or argues against NS is "dumb, weird, stubborn, or just trolls." For some it's simply an honest matter of perspective and they argue what they see.

For example:



Do you see a duck or a rabbit?

Some people will rightly argue that they see a duck, and others will rightly argue that they see a rabbit. The people who see a duck aren't saying it to be stubborn or trollish, they say it because it's what they see. Unless there is acceptance that the drawing can be seen differently, the argument of what it is will go on indefinitely.

Fandom arguments, especially pairing arguments, boil down to how we as individuals perceive what's in front of us. It's based on our life experiences, our feelings, even down to the wiring of our brains. Traditional relationship constructs, values, culture, tropes, idioms, etc. -- they all have an influence on our perspective and how we process what we see.

Pairings appeal to people for different reasons. Let's say NS fans all see a rabbit. There still comes a point where we have to agree to let others shippers see the duck.

Kishimoto will eventually make it clear whether he's drawn a rabbit or a duck. But even if he says it's a rabbit, some people will never see it, and will still insist it's a duck. Because that's what they see.

I agree with you, it all comes down to perspective. But that's also why it so hard to debate with others about pairings, because if they haven't seen the 'rabbit' at this point then they would probably will never see it. It also hard to debate with someone if you don't understand their perspective, and even harder to win a argument because you really can't say someone's perspective of certain events in the manga are wrong. I tried SOO HARD to understand Naruhina fan's perspective, like seeing Naruto and Sakura's relationship as more of sibling relationship, and that Hinata may have more of a role in the series then I believe. But I simply can't, if Naruto and Sakura really do have a brother-sister relationship, then why does Naruto often flirt with Sakura and why has their been moments that imply Sakura may have stronger feelings for Naruto (she blushes, the hug at the end of the Pain arc, Yamato's speech, etc...). Also, Hinata, no way I looks at it, still doesn't seem all so important to me because WE HARDLY SEE HER.

Admittedly, perspective is also about an individuals belief, and I don't know every fans personal beliefs, values or morals. But, the things I've mention about Sakura's feelings about Naruto, I don't know how in their minds they don't see any romantic implication. To me, that's the hardest part of how to identify with other fandoms.

[Don-kun]

No, I said that wasn't the case in that thread. I was mostly talking about how I'm very frustrating about the whole pairing debate thing, and how, at this point, their shouldn't be much of a debate. If there should be debate, we should be 'winning' that debate, because we have a lot more manga proof. But no, the other won't back down, and we (Narusaku fan base) are still smaller than the Naruhina fan base. I only mention the fact that I hate the debates, because I wanted to mention why I don't read debate threads anymore when other pairing fandoms are involved. I probably worded it wrong, and you probably thought I was talking about all the arguments that were presented there, when in reality I'm just tired of those whole 'pairing wars' thing, because I believe there shouldn't be much of a debate at this point.

Also, I'm assuming you're Don-Kun (if not, then this would be silly), so I just I wanted to say you made some great arguments. In fact, I thought the Narusaku arguments were pretty solid at that debate thread. What was frustrating to me was seeing people counter arguing against those arguments. It wasn't the fact that they were being mean or rude, they weren't (or, at least, of what I read), it was the fact they were arguing against some manga facts, and they were same arguments I've seen being made in countless other websites. Like we never seen Naruto stop loving Sakura, yet they still debate that he doesn't any more. There are panels that show Sakura blushing at Naruto and it has been hinted her feelings for him may go beyond friendship, yet they still debate that is not true.

To me, at this point, I honestly don't think some pairing fans are blinded by their preference. I honestly believe they just don't see it going that direction, which makes me doubt my own judgment, because I don't see the series going to the Naruhina direction. Maybe it just me(us) that don't see it going to end Naruhina, and they are the ones that are right. But then again I have a lot more manga support, anime support (all those OPs and EDs, and other little things (like their 'dates')), parallels, and, oh, the recent Naruto movie that KISHI was in charged with. So my mind is at ease with that evidence, though that makes me beg the question again of why they are so many Naruhina fans and why they honestly believe it will end Naruhina.

Reply
NaruHina has the biggest fandom in the west and most Americans I'm an American too, like girls will big B. Also the Fandon in America does not like Sakura so they will side with NaruHina and SS is hoping for NH so Sakura can be available and NH is hoping for SS for Sakura to be out of the way, I you go with the neutral fans you will notice that No one challenge the NS view they just don't like the pairing but also don't have a problem with the argument.

About SS and the reason why it's popular, well ask yourself why Justin Bieber, is the same thing Sakura female Fans was Sakura to end with a cute guy plus they are also Sasuke fan they love him like a real live person.

ANS, well those fans spend almost 24 hours a day hating NS, a question. Does NH and SS bother you to a point where you want to express your hatred toward the pairing? Ok to make it easier, remember when the 1st trailer and the posters for the movie were out, some of the members including myself panic about the possibility of NH and SS been presented by Kishi as Author's intent. Well the ANS are in that status every single day they are also member saying that If NS happens they will stop reading the Manga other that they will hate Kishi for the rest of their life, another call Naruto a jerk for the NH stuff, angry when Naruto ask Sakura for a date and some even say that the had nightmares thinking NaruSaku did happen, and another girl almost crash her car because she was freaking out about the possibility of NS happening, some of the post in the ANS are genuinely panicking whwhile hating the Anime team for giving NS so much fanservise.

[catsi563]

I'd give you some, it's looooooong to read

Warning: SasuKarin --Click here to view--

SASUKARIN

“Come with me, Karin. I need you”

“If you reeeeally need me, I’ll go with you”



Their Development.



As you’re all aware, Karin and in consequence SasuKarin, were introduced pretty late into the manga; up to now (Chapter 459) they’ve been present for barely 111 chapters, and in like 70+ or so of those, they haven’t shown up at all. So the material we have to work with it’s actually from more or less 23+ chapters at the very least.



Merely 23 chapters. One would think that since that’s such a small number, compared to the 450+ chapters that the manga has actually had, then the material we’d get is fairly limited.



Alas, that’s not the case. And in those mere 23 chapters SasuKarin has gotten more moments and development than 99% of the pairings in the series. That should be telling enough on its own. But since without explanations this manifesto wouldn’t be needed, I’ll expand on those 23 chapters a little bit more.

Everything—really—starts with chapter 348, where Sasuke and Suigetsu make their way towards Karin’s prison so that Sasuke can recruit her; because, as he tells Suigetsu, she has unique abilities and he needs her.



This early on the game, and there’s already something that’s worth of notice; when he recruits Suigetsu, and later when he recruits Juugo, he never, ever tells them that he needs them. Ever. The only one to get such a request—“Come with me, Karin. I need you”—is Karin. That automatically sets her apart from her other two teammates, but actually, it not only singles her out from them but from every girl Sasuke has ever interacted with. Why? Because Sasuke’s acknowledgement is not easy to gain, and much less an acknowledgement that expands from your abilities to your persona—Alas, Karin has it. She’s the only girl that Sasuke deems as useful—which coming from him, is one hell of a compliment—and the only girl that Sasuke truly acknowledges and respects in such a way.



Sasuke’s respect for her is also shown in various instances; like, whenever Karin talks back to him, insults him, questions his logic (or lack of it), etc—Sasuke never, ever, reacts negatively to her. Instead, he’ll listen to her words and then offer some reasoning of his own; whether it’s to disagree, explain to her his own plan of action, etc, he has never told her to “mind her own business”, “be quiet”, or even worse, “If you don’t like it, leave” like he has said to Suigetsu. He has never said to her anything disrespectful like that, even though 99.9% of the time she (and not Suigetsu or Juugo) is the one to question him. That much also shows that he respects her opinion as well.



Truth is, that Sasuke on his own chose and acknowledged Karin; he saw something in her, and that something caught his interest, and she earned his recognition and his respect. Something that also becomes consideration, which is the word that best encompasses, I believe, Sasuke’s end on their bond; he’s considerate with Karin. From her opinion to her wellbeing, he’s considerate with it all. And when has he been considerate with anything, really?



This ‘consideration’ I’m alluding to, was also reflected back in chapter 352, where when Suigetsu teases Karin and makes her angry, Sasuke is annoyed and tells him to “Stop messing with Karin. I told you to cooperate with her” and then when Karin is the one to annoy Suigetsu, Suigetsu is the one to get a warning, as Sasuke watches him frown and goes “Suigetsu…”—But Karin? Karin doesn’t get such a thing. Two chapters before that, in 350, Karin tricks Suigetsu into going in the wrong direction and ditches him, so that she has to take only Sasuke to Juugo; Sasuke asks her why she did she do it, and Karin’s answer is that Suigetsu is an obnoxious jerk and that she cannot stand him; what does Sasuke do? Nothing. Nothing at all. Instead of telling her to go and get Suigetsu back or even lecture her for her action, he doesn’t complain at all. He plays her game instead, saying “Let me go, I can walk by myself” but doing nothing to pull away as Karin drags him by his wrist to Juugo’s cell.



And that’s not the only time such a thing has happened, either; in chapter 364, Suigetsu once again teases Karin and she reacts more violently than ever. Quite literally starting to beat the crap out of him; and what does Sasuke do? He watches. Not saying a word. In fact they’re all so engrossed in it than none of the three notice that Juugo was losing control of himself until it was too late.



In details like these, it’s easy to see this consideration I was mentioning either, just like it’s easy to notice what might as well be seeds for something else; because, fact is, isn’t it weird that Sasuke asks Suigetsu to cooperate with Karin, but never asks Karin to cooperate with Suigetsu? Never lectures or warns her about anything? Allows her to do as she pleases?



And some may try to disregard this as useless, but this is Sasuke we’re talking about. These are the type of stuff that actually does count.



But there’s more. Of course there’s more, because if there’s something that characterizes SasuKarin, is the fact that the development they’ve gotten is well-rounded. What do I mean by that? I mean that their development has been gradual, realistic and continuous; and it’s formed by both, subtle hints (like the ones I just mentioned) and obvious ones, like the ones I’m just about addressing.



The biggest and most obvious SasuKarin moments we’ve gotten so far come in the form of two chapters during the Taka vs Killerbee fight; that’s right, two chapters. One dedicated (as in, the main focus of it) pretty much in its entirety to them, and the other where a good bunch of it was dedicated to them, too. That alone seems to me like quite the treatment for a pairing that’s supposed to not mean anything; especially considering that both chapters not only have mutual moments between them, but the most emotional stuff is actually coming from Sasuke. Sasuke.



Regardless, before discussing the meaning of those two chapters, I’m going to address the Taka vs Hachibi fight as a whole, which starts in chapter 410 and finishes in chapter 415. 5 chapters, 2 of which were dedicated to SasuKarin, and where the remaining 3 had important moments which showcased Sasuke’s trust in her, the way he relies on her, and also the way they care about each other.



The Hachibi fight was there to highlight Taka, and help them bond even further, so that Sasuke could realize that he’s not alone and fully accept them; however, the bond that was highlighted the most wasn’t Sasuke-Suigetsu or Sasuke-Juugo, no. It was SasuKarin.



We start with chapter 410, where Sasuke takes his usual approach to things; meaning, he is completely arrogant, underestimating his enemy and believing the fight will be a piece of cake. So he tells them that he’ll “Capture him [The Hachibi]” and tells Suigetsu “To go right” and Juugo to “Go left”, to Karin? To Karin, he says “Karin, you watch my back”.



We’re in the first chapter of the fight, but that already shows two things: One, he trusts her with his blind spot. He trusts that if the situation merits it, she’ll be able to assist and help him save his ass; he knows that he can rely on her and does so. The second, he’d rather she stay out of the fight, and remain as support; which is, in turn, consideration for her wellbeing. And it’s interesting to notice the fact that indeed, Karin isn’t the offensive type, and because of this, it’d be understandable if she gets in the way; but Sasuke has never been shown to consider her a nuisance because of it, and in fact she’s the teammate that he relies on the most. He trusts her; and it’s no wonder why when despite the fact that she isn’t the offensive type, Karin actually doesn’t get in the way and can fetch for herself just fine.



That doesn’t mean that Sasuke won’t make sure to guarantee her safety, though; like he showed back in chapter 350, and like he’s showing here.



Anyways, chapter 410 mostly focuses on other characters that have nothing to do with Taka, but when we get back to them, is to see that both Juugo and Suigetsu have been defeated. What does Sasuke do? He calmly steps in, not showing any sign of distress at all, and proceeds to tell them that he’d deal with the Hachibi. While he’s at it, he also mentions how they “Are the ones using Akatsuki. Try to keep that in mind” and we’re shown Taka’s individual reactions; Suigetsu goes “heh” and Juugo goes “Of course” but Karin? Karin’s thought is “Sasuke… you’re the coolest! I knew you’d never stop to being someone else’s errand boy!”

I emphasize that sentence, because quite honestly, that is the part that truly matters; we know that Karin thinks that Sasuke is cool. Everyone thinks that, it’s nothing awe-worthy. But the rest of the sentence, more precisely, hers “I knew—” goes to show something quite simple: she knows Sasuke. Right here, she’s not saying that Sasuke is “cool” because he’s good-looking, or because he looks badass, or because he has done a wonderful technique; no, right here Karin is saying that he’s the coolest because of his personality. And it’s not even because of his aloofness, which is the usual thing that girls fawn about him; no, it’s because of the fact that he’s a strong soul who yields to no one. Just like her.



So right here, Karin showed that the thing that she admires about him; what truly makes her think that he’s “the coolest” is precisely the traits that make him, him. His personality. And this is actually backed up by the only other time that Karin thought “Oh Sasuke, you’re the coolest!” because it was as Sasuke was making it clear to Suigetsu and Juugo just whom was the one who had the power in there—and that’s also part of him being someone who yields to no one. So Karin is above all, attracted to his personality; being physically attracted to him is just a plus. In fact, the only time that she has been shown thinking that he’s good-looking, it came to her almost as an afterthought, back in chapter 363, where she thinks that “Sasuke injured looks cool, too”—and that goes to show the fact that even though he’s tattered and bloodied, a complete mess, she still likes him just fine.



Back to the chapters at hand, in what’s remaining of chapter 411, Sasuke proceeds to get his ass handed to him—Karin showing concern for his wellbeing while he’s at it. Now, we have arrived to chapter 412; the moment that made many blink twice in order to make sure they weren’t seeing things. Because seriously, was this Naruto? Was this Uchiha Sasuke?

Chapter 412 begins with Sasuke falling thanks to the attack of the Hachibi, Karin yelling his name, and Juugo running towards the scene; with the help of Juugo and Suigetsu who team up to attack the Hachibi, Karin is able to get in herself and singlehandedly pull Sasuke away of danger’s way, taking him to a safe area where she proceeds to extract all the swords impaled on him; never once losing her clear mind, even though it was obvious she was worried because of the state Sasuke was in. Then, comes the moment.



Karin pulls up her sleeve, revealing that she’s got biting-marks marking her whole arm; biting-marks that she’s obviously been hiding under those long-sleeves, which gives away the fact that she’s not happy with them, and neither does she consider them pretty. Alas, what must be done must be done, and Sasuke’s life is at stake; so she doesn’t hesitate, reveals them to him, and asks him to bite her arm. They look into each other’s eyes, and then Sasuke proceeds to bite her. Without any hesitance or second thought. And this, I found interesting; because Sasuke’s lack of surprise meant that he had either seen those before (which in turn makes one wonder why, when and how) or that he simply trusts her that much, as to not even inquire why the hell he should bite her. Or perhaps, it’s a mixture of the two.



Of course, as Sasuke sucks on her chakra, Karin has a positive reaction to it in a way that it seems like she’s having an orgasm; so as if the whole “bite me” thing wasn’t sexual enough, her reaction was sure to completely settle the air of sexuality the scene had.



But for me, the most vital thing in this whole chapter doesn’t come until immediately afterwards, where after Sasuke’s wounds have closed, he sits, and tells her “You saved me, Karin” and she replies with an “Aa” which means more or less, a “Yeah”.



That is extremely relevant, because when has Sasuke acknowledged anyone’s help in the way he acknowledged hers? Even going as far as to tell her that she saved him? Not even a nonchalant “Thanks for that, Karin” no. He gives her complete acknowledgement and gratitude for her help, and Karin, instead of boasting or trying to act nonchalant about it, replies with a simple “Yeah…”. And afterwards, the two of them stay like that, sitting together, as Karin regains her breath; it is a tender moment. A moment where Sasuke is not only accepting, but giving, too.



Then comes chapter 413, and right from the start we see Sasuke reacting differently to his surroundings; Suigetsu, Juugo and him have decided to attack together this time, like the team they are, and Sasuke is finally taking the Hachibi seriously. Alas, what I was truly making reference to when I said that he was ‘reacting differently’ was actually this. If you remember, just a few paragraphs ago I mentioned how when Suigetsu and Juugo got beaten at the start of the battle, Sasuke merely entered it as if nothing had happened at all.



But this time, what is the difference this time? That Sasuke is shown to be clearly concerned for his teammate’s wellbeing, and he actually hurries and makes his way towards them, to inquire whether they were alright or not. It’s worthy of notice though, that another clear difference that sets this scene apart from the one at the beginning, is the fact that this is the first time during the battle that Karin is in danger. This is the first time that she’s directly involved, and might end up hurt; just like it is the first time that Sasuke shows obvious concern during the battle. Coincidence? Up to your choice, but I think no. And I actually believe that there are facts backing up that conclusion; facts that I’ll mention on the following paragraphs.



In chapter 413, Sasuke gets hurt for the second time. By running towards them, he wasn’t careful and he left an opening; the Hachibi was too fast for any of them, and Sasuke got his torso blown off. Juugo catches him in midair, and Karin proceeds to hurriedly make her way towards him. Once again, she shows obvious worry and shock as she sees the state he was in—worse that he has been. Ever. But again, she doesn’t waste any time and doesn’t lose her clear head, quickly proceeding to pull down the top of her shirt only to reveal yet more biting marks covering her torso. It’s obvious she had the intention to heal Sasuke, even if that meant losing all her chakra and ending up completely exhausted; but Juugo tells her that she has done enough, and that he’d take care of it.



He does just that, and in chapter 414, Sasuke luckily has awakened. Karin though, wastes no time; regardless of the fact that she again shows genuine care for his wellbeing, as she thinks to herself “Thank God, you’re okay she tells him instead “Are you awake, Sasuke? Come on, get a grip!” and makes sure that he knows the gravity of the situation, also helping him and supporting his body as they make a run for it. In the following two pages, we’re shown Sasuke’s reply as both Juugo and Suigetsu risk their lives for him. Juugo, who saved him just like Karin did two chapters ago, got a “Juugo…” and the same thing was given to Suigetsu as he risks himself to give the other 3 time to escape. See the difference?



By the end of chapter 414, comes the moment as far as Team development goes. As Karin tells him that “We won’t get away… what do we do!?” and Sasuke proceeds to stare at his fallen teammates one at a time. First, Suigetsu, who is completely disintegrated. Then, Juugo, who looks like a kid. And lastly, is Karin, who is completely torn up. So basically, he goes from: Karin, Suigetsu, Juugo and back to Karin again, and then come the flashbacks. First comes Karin’s, then Juugo’s and lastly Suigetsu’s.



After this, Sasuke closes his eyes, recalls Team 7 for the first time and only time in Part II as a whole, and then he opens his eyes and uses Amateratsu. The sidetext illustrates it pretty well, “He remembers that he isn’t alone. Sasuke puts everything he has in Amateratsu!”



Basically, the guy is doing it to protect Taka. Just like they protected him; right here, he has acknowledged their bonds, and is responding to them.



“Who will survive the clash…?! Next issue, “SASUKE’S DECISION”!”



And lastly, we get Chapter 415. The SasuKarin chapter by excellence for reasons that are pretty obvious and straight-forward.



As the Hachibi falls and starts being consumed by Amateratsu, Sasuke is attacked by pain in his eye; he’s in no condition to run, Juugo is helping Suigetsu, and the only one who notices the danger and acts is Karin. So Karin grabs Sasuke and Juugo who is carrying Suigetsu, and makes a run for it. Holding all of them. But then the Hachibi falls and the strength of it is enough to send them jumping in the air, and while Karin manages to get them out of the way of danger, she’s not so lucky herself.



And that’s when Sasuke reacts. He raises his head, only to witness how a huge tentacle was just about to fall above Karin, which would completely crush her. Look at the lines drawn around him; not even Karin, who is the one with one foot on the grave, has them. Plus, the way they’re drawn was a nice detail; there she is, seconds away from be killed, and their eyes met. And it’s there that Sasuke cuts the tentacle, pulling chakra out of God knows where, succeeding in saving Karin. Or so they thought.



Sasuke is, again, quick to notice the fact that Karin’s life was in danger again, as a tentacle burning with the black flames is about to hit Karin from behind. Hurriedly, Sasuke screams at her to “Run!” but there was no way to avoid it, and Karin is hit.



Sasuke’s reaction is raw, and immediate; take a look at the way every panel in the page is drawn with motion lines around. Since there’s barely any movement, there’s no other point to them but to emphasize the emotion of the situation; the anxiety, the shock, everything.



Look at the frame in the top-right corner. Look at Sasuke, the guy is completely freaked out, panicked to his bones; his prime reaction is actually to attempt to get up and make his way towards her, but Juugo stops him. He tells him things like they are.



“Forget her! We need to run before the fire consumes us, too!”

“Wait, Juugo!”

“No!”



Sasuke refuses to leave her behind. Even though he must know that it’s impossible to turn off those flames; even though he knows that Juugo is right, if they stay, they die; the three of them. But Sasuke wouldn’t listen, he decides to risk all their lives in the offhand chance that there might actually be a way of saving Karin.



His drive is so strong, his determination and will are so unwavering, that as he looks at her, and calls her name on his mind “Karin!” he manages to unleash a new power. A new ability of his sharingan. All of it, to save Karin.



And he manages to put those flames out, contrary to what any probability would’ve said. Then he’s assaulted by a new pain in his eyes, but yet again, that doesn’t stop him from noticing first the fact that Karin was, again, in danger; “Juugo, get Karin! Now!” he yells, once again showing raw emotion, something very rare in him.



But he does it in this chapter over and over again, and solely thanks to one girl: Karin.



One thing I found quite telling about all this, looking at the story itself instead of the characters on it, is that quite honestly it’d have fit a lot better if Juugo was the one who was in Karin’s place. Why? Because physically he’s the strongest one out of the bunch; sure thing he’s turning into a child, but he showed pretty clearly that he was still strong as he got a hold of Karin and brought her to where they were, so he’d have been perfectly capable of getting Sasuke, Karin and Suigetsu out of harms way. Besides that, the way he was so ready to leave Karin behind; Juugo, who’s usually naturally kind. That role would’ve been more befitting of Karin, who regardless of her feelings, will always have a clear-head and think of the probabilities and most logical plans of action.



Alas, that’s not how Kishimoto wanted it to happen; it happened between Sasuke and Karin for a reason. And that it’s pretty meaningful on its own, even without looking at how huge that chapter is for SasuKarin.



After all this, Taka really didn’t show up much; in fact they went in hiatus for like 30 chapters. But when they did show up again, for those of us who are aware, it was quite easy to notice the fact that one thing hadn’t changed: Kishimoto was still highlighting Sasuke and Karin among Taka. Focusing on their reactions, their thought process, everything, above the other two.



For example, we have chapter 453. In this chapter, there are two things that happen that I thought were worth taking a look at; after Sasuke attacks Tobi and lands on the branch directly in front of Karin, and Tobi mentions that something happened to Konoha, Sasuke has a visible reaction. But he remains silent. As such, who’s the one to inquire about Konoha for him? That’s right, Karin. Who doesn’t give a damn about Konoha, and doesn’t have any reasons to do so, but she still asks directly after Sasuke’s reaction was shown. And this is not the only time such a thing happens in the chapter; later after Suigetsu suggests that they should go directly to the place where the Hokage’s meeting is being held, Karin doesn’t complain at all. But when Sasuke is shown being all “…” Karin does react, and turns towards Suigetsu to give him a reproaching look. In the following panel, Sasuke confirms that he has indeed accepted Suigetsu’s reaction, and Karin is shown thinking that “Ugh… things just got a whole lot more complicated” which confirms that she had, indeed, read his exp​ression and anticipated what his words would be, since otherwise she’d have glared at Suigetsu from the start.



I also think it’s interesting to note how Karin seems to be the only one who isn’t happy at all with them going to the Hokage meeting. I believe that this might come to play a role later, though of course, this is purely speculation from my part.



And that’s basically where we are right now. I obviously didn’t comment on a few things, because I wanted to focus on pointing out the subtle ones and the meaning behind the major ones, instead of pointing out everything. But here is a list of all the chapters Sasuke and Karin have had any moments or talked, so you might want to take a look at that. Because casually, out of like, 28 chapters that have Taka in them, at least 23 have SasuKarin in various shapes and forms.

Well, I know some of you dont like SK. It's a note from my friend. She tagged me on Fb and, well, She left me awe
I'm not a big shipper for this pair, but I kinda like it. Well, I always imagine if in the end, the battle of Sasuke and Naruto, Sakura would be in Naruto's side while Karin on Sasuke's.

they medic nin, ne?

Did Karin know about her clan?
I hope, in the end, she stab Sasuke from behind before she forgive him. I hope she'll do it, for herself, for Sasuke's sake, and of course for Naruto too. IF, Sasuke ends up alive, I hope he lost his sight, so Karin would be join him, go around the world. Sasuke would never back to Konoha afterall.

So, SasuKarin and of course NaruSaku XD

This post explains quite succinctly what Ive stated about SasuKarin nicely especialy in regards to the devleopment theyve shared throughout the series.

hmm, I'm not going to say that he never cared for Karin after what I've read, but I will say that he certainly discarded all feelings when he betrayed her. I'm curious to see how people think Karin will forgive Sasuke for that, and how Sasuke can trust that she's forgiven him.

My thoughts on this have always been that I think she will not forgive him right off the bat at least not openly.

the way I think things are going given the current plot and development. Is that Sasuke will be reduced to what Naruto was at the beginning of the manga, ie the Pariah, the guy who has nothing, the guy who wants or has to seek the villages and his friends acknowledgement and most importantly he has to rebuild the trust with the girl he loves like Naruto did with Sakura.

Naruto on the other hand will take the place Sasuke had, as the cool guy with the fangirls, and the hero etc who has all the acknowledgemnt.

its basically a full circle ending where the two characters cycle through life and walk amile in the others shoes so to speak.

Karins forgiveness wont be done ""on Screen"' so to speak. instead itll be more like shesll agree to follow him or hell agree to follow her, or shell say i just happen to be going the same way as you ((like what she said when Suigetsu first asked her whay she was coming)) secretly shell smile or give some hint that shes glad to be with him, but hes got a ways to go to earn her trust back.

Outwardly though shell act cool and distant like she does normally around him, which will make the chase for Sasuke that much more exiting and intriguing.

[Codus N]

LOL. Why does it feel trollish? I don't get why you'd think that.

Well, like you pointed, everyone has different perspectives, I just don't know why, but I feel that way . Just another good example for people seeing things in a different way like you pointed, right??

[Konoha'sCrimsonFox]

I cannot support SasuKarin. It would make me hypocritical since my point onto why SasuSaku won't happen is because Sasuke doesn't care about her and tried to kill her. If Karin goes back to Sasuke, I will lose all my respect for her just like if Sakura would go back to Sasuke.

What if Sasuke turns out he has feelings for Karin? It was shown during the time he learnt that Karin is an Uzumaki, and he hesitated to finish her off at the Iron Country.

[T XD]

What if Sasuke turns out he has feelings for Karin? It was shown during the time he learnt that Karin is an Uzumaki, and he hesitated to finish her off at the Iron Country.

when he was shocked that karin was an uzumaki, it doesn't necessarily mean he has feelings for her although my thoughts on sasukarin for me is to wait till at least karin is reunited with sasuke to see if she still has feelings for him and if there is potential to this pairing .

Edited by T XD, 11 August 2012 - 09:30 AM.