4869 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

I agree on the whole theory of Naruto thinking that Sakura will love Sasuke forever thinking that her love for him is strong and eternal like his love for her. I don't think he sees that her love for Sasuke was a selfish and artificial crush that it wasn't a real thing to being close to true love. Knowing how dense Naruto is that's true and even if Sakura tells him that she loves him and not Sasuke he will never admit that Sakura may have developed strong feelings for him.

I also agree on the theory of part 1 Naruto chasing Sakura and Sakura chasing after Sasuke. Then at part 2 Naruto is chasing Sasuke and Sakura is helping him in his search for Sasuke and she is looking for Naruto's acknowledgement to see her as a strong reliable friend and teammate. Someone you could put your trust into and perhaps she wants to help him get Sasuke back to Konoha so that he sees how much she has change and the lengths she will go for him. Even if they are still people who believe that Sakura still loves Sasuke because they are clinging to the fake Kishi 2010 interview (supposedly the only proof of S/S being canon ) . They should read the real interview and let the manga speak for itself that's how Kishi answers his questions to the fans.

Edited by Gravenimage, 12 January 2010 - 12:17 PM.

[ciardha]

I don't think he sees that her love for Sasuke was a selfish and artificial crush that it wasn't a real thing to being close to true love.

No, I don't think catsi was talking about Naruto viewing Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being that way, I don't think so either. I don't think Naruto can fully disguish between the two types of affection. No, what I think catsi and I know I was talking about Naruto viewing Sakura as emotional weaker than himself wasn't specifically associated with Sasuke, it's his general view. He sees her cry and thinks it's weakness, he doesn't go after her like he would a guy because she's a girl and he doesn't expect her to be tough. He doesn't realize the tears aren't weakness but just a way of processing stress and trauma. She cries, then pulls herself together and gets stronger. It's a pretty accurate picture of how many emotionally strong women process stress and trauma.

[Gravenimage]

No, I don't think catsi was talking about Naruto viewing Sakura's feelings for Sasuke being that way, I don't think so either. I don't think Naruto can fully disguish between the two types of affection. No, what I think catsi and I know I was talking about Naruto viewing Sakura as emotional weaker than himself wasn't specifically associated with Sasuke, it's his general view. He sees her cry and thinks it's weakness, he doesn't go after her like he would a guy because she's a girl and he doesn't expect her to be tough. He doesn't realize the tears aren't weakness but just a way of processing stress and trauma. She cries, then pulls herself together and gets stronger. It's a pretty accurate picture of how many emotionally strong women process stress and trauma.

I guess it makes sense because Naruto stopped crying since he was little and decided to hide his pain with giving fake smiles. Sakura is stronger than Naruto emotionally because she cries and crying isn't a sign of weakness but a sign of strength, crying makes people stronger. I think Naruto needs to let his pain out and cry it all out that's why he seems to be so stress worst than Sakura or worst than anyone. I think it's the reason he collapsed for breathing too quick the poor guy needs to cry in order to let out all that pain and stress. It wouldn't surprise me if he ends up having an emotional breakdown and Sakura pulls him in a tight hug maybe that's what Kishi has in mind in the future.

Edited by Gravenimage, 12 January 2010 - 02:18 PM.

[Hak]

her physical growth yes he has seen that.

but Ciardhas right he has not seen her emotional growth yet. the closest he came was when she was healing Kankuro and he thought she was so cool/amazing. but thats all hes seen so far. his flashbacks before he collapsed and when she was confessing indicate that he either has refused to accept what hes seen, or simply hasnt seen it at all.

When I say he will drop the chan suffix permanently that will happen much later in the manga.

however

their will come a moment I believe soon, where he and Sakura will confront each other post sasuke. this is the moment where he will drop the suffix and it will surprise her the most. the notion that he is talking to her seriously with no pretenses and no more barriers.

that will be the signifigance of him dropping the suffix possibly permanetly or at least for that scene.

Reading this I really see the breaking of old Team 7 picture, that apart of realising that old times won't come back, it also shows how Narutos mental view of Sakura and Sasuke still being like they were at 12 breaking, hopefully even the view of himself being the totally carefree chap he used to be. I really hope he won't go all emo on us, thats Sasukes job, because it really is the carefree attitude what makes me read manga called Naruto day after day, even if it feels "sometimes" that the name should change. Well at least he has to be more mature from now on. There should'nt be this grat skeletons in Narutos closet anymore, just a few ghosts from the old generations...

I have to disagree. I don't think Naruto has ever thought of Sakura's love for Sasuke as something immature (even if he should have at first). He most likely compares her love for Sasuke to his own love for her. His love for her is something that wouldn't just go away with time or hardships, and I think he views Sakura as feeling the same. It isn't really that he is missing her emotional growth, but rather he views it as something indestructible, like his own love.

Naruto isn't the type of person to look at someone and see their weaknesses; he is the type who looks at someone and sees their strengths.

He really could revert to that logick, after all the only example of romantical feelings Naruto has are his own feelings towards Sakura.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Reading this I really see the breaking of old Team 7 picture, that apart of realising that old times won't come back, it also shows how Narutos mental view of Sakura and Sasuke still being like they were at 12 breaking, hopefully even the view of himself being the totally carefree chap he used to be.

I agree
Anyhow, the breaking of team 7, would maybe signifies that Naruto will accept that fact Sakura, had fallen in love with him.
oh well, we can't blame Naruto for it. He is in fact stubborn yet he is altruistic. All i know Naruto is still lacking to know what a woman's heart truly is.

[catsi563]

the breaking of team 7 image in his head, is analagous to the breaking down of steel in a forge. the sharpest swords are forged in the hottest flames. this is a staple of eastern philosophy especially in japan where sword mythos is a big part of heroism.

Naruto has been put through a crucible of flames and broken down, now at this moment he is at his lowest point. the metal of his being has been broken down.

Now he'll be rebuilt and remade. the key will be who he talks to and how he deals with the flames that broke him down. if he doesnt deal with them or rejects them out of hand, hell remain the same and the character will stagnate.

if he accepts the changes and uses those changes and fears to make him stronger he'll reemerge from the trauma hes suffered stronger then Sasuke and Madara or anyone for that matter could possibly imagine.

with Sakura hes allready had his image of her broken at first subtly then with the confession using a sledghammer. Now he has to accept her words and the emotion behind them. He has to accept shes not the fragile little cherry blossom anymore. the one whos concern he deflected when they went after gaara.

To clarify Ciardhas comment a little I dont think he sees her as emotionally weak.

however Naruto is one of those people who has a martyr complex. He belives that he and he alone should have to bare the burden of all the worlds problems.

this manifests by his using masks to hide his pain. so no one worries about him and evryone thinks everythings going fine.

Sakura takes a similar line in regards to Naruto himself. She sees his past as she grows over the timekip and thinks thatr hes had enough pain and the last thing she wants is to add to it. so she deflects his injury of her as being at Orochimarus hands so he wont feel guilty.

now they are at the stage where the two of them have to not rely on third party intervention to reveal hidden feelings. they have to not rely on lies to cover up their pain with regards to eahc other.

the upcoming confrontation between Sakura and Sasuke will be Sakuras final breakdown. If it goes as I suspect it will. then Sasuke will reveal the truth of the bench scene to Sakura prompting a slew of flashbacks which will culminate with a final revelation and solidification of Sakuras true feelings for Naruto, and a final resolution of Sakuras feelings for Sasuke.

from this point the scene will probably be interrupted before Sakura can bring these feelings to Narutos attention. But Karin will be there in some fashion to further lock down her resolve and fire her up.

Sakura will also fire up Karins resolve towards Sasuke. wel may even get a look at Sasuke from karins perspective.

this will be the key moments in the manga where issues are brought to conclusion

[ciardha]

To clarify Ciardhas comment a little I dont think he sees her as emotionally weak.

Emotionally weaker than himself- not noticing how much emotionally stronger she has become. It's a negative on his part, yes, more an unconscious one- like his mental image of Sakura having "not changed a bit" since she was 12. He's built a mental wall between himself and reality, including not noticing the changes in Sakura. Even the changes in her fighting ability and medic nin skills took rather dramatic evidence for him to notice. Her personality changes- falling in love with him, becoming an emotionally strong young woman, he's missed entirely.

Like I said, the contrast between the way Sai sees her (as an emotionally strong person) and the way Naruto (and Kakashi too, but he's got his own set of issues but he's been still sort of seeing her as "the weakest link"- at least emotionally. I think he's figured out finally what a fierce drive burns inside the young woman Sakura has become) sees her is quite striking.

Edited by ciardha, 12 January 2010 - 11:41 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Emotionally weaker than himself- not noticing how much emotionally stronger she has become. It's a negative on his part, yes, more an unconscious one- like his mental image of Sakura having "not changed a bit" since she was 12. He's built a mental wall between himself and reality, including not noticing the changes in Sakura. Even the changes in her fighting ability and medic nin skills took rather dramatic evidence for him to notice. Her personality changes- falling in love with him, becoming an emotionally strong young woman, he's missed entirely.

Like I said, the contrast between the way Sai sees her (as an emotionally strong person) and the way Naruto (and Kakashi too, but he's got his own set of issues but he's been still sort of seeing her as "the weakest link"- at least emotionally. I think he's figured out finally what a fierce drive burns inside the young woman Sakura has become) sees her is quite striking.

You always pin point the truth I completely agree with you a 100% . Naruto is stuck in the past where team seven with Sasuke existed because of the powerful bond he forged with them after all they form part of his circle of most precious people who were the first to acknowledged him as a human being and didn't saw him as the Kyuubi. He just wants to bring back Sasuke to Konoha so that things go back to the way they were team seven once again. We can clearly see that when he had the flashbacks of team seven including his image of Sakura still seeing her as the 12 year old Sasuke fan girl. It's like he was frozen in time like he hasn't realize that time has past he still sees himself in the past or to him the good old days with his team. He needs a cold slap of reality to finally snap him back to the present which I believe it happened finding out about the rookies decision to kill Sasuke.

He has to realize that the past is the past it won't come back. Those happy precious memories when Sasuke was with them are gone and they won't come back. If he does capture Sasuke and brings him back to Konoha the only thing will await for him there is an execution for his betrayal even if he has a reason to have revenge. He has to mature and start acting like a true ninja and face the cold truth that the 12 year old Sasuke who was his best friend and brother is gone for good he has chosen his path. Like Madara said revenge is his ninja way unlike Naruto's ninja way which is protect everyone in Konoha and find the answer to bring peace. But knowing Naruto he will find an answer to save Sasuke without killing him I know it will sound crazy if he becomes a missing nin in order to save him but that's not Naruto at all.

Edited by Gravenimage, 12 January 2010 - 11:54 PM.

[Strangelove]

Okay 2 things

The breaking of the team 7 picture: Naruto realizes that Sasuke is beyond reach. That Sakura has decided to go and kill Sasuke, that the POAL is broken, that everything he ever wanted to see his team...is now a broken picture.

Sakura has definitely become stronger, emotionally...but this is to no surprise...even in part 1 she still showed emotional strength, hidden under a layer of fan girlish affiliation, she was really very tomboyish, [like Kushina] But unlike Kushina, she build a shell around herself to seem cool to others, only showing her real side to Naruto, to his disdain.

Edited by Strangelove, 13 January 2010 - 12:55 AM.

[Froot]

I'm sorry I had to bring this ...lovely little thing here... But I just wanted to hear your opinions on it.



There, at the end. Hinata acting totally OOC, like a TsunDere.

In my opinion, I think, if you want Naruto to be with a Tsundere, then why hate NaruSaku? The hypocrisy of it really got to me. I know I should be used to it by now, because hypocrisy is all I ever see, but now...

Thoughts?

Edited by Froot, 13 January 2010 - 01:13 AM.

[Gravenimage]

I'm sorry I had to bring this ...lovely little thing here... But I just wanted to hear your opinions on it.



There, at the end. Hinata acting totally OOC, like a TsunDere.

In my opinion, I think, if you want Naruto to be with a Tsundere, then why hate NaruSaku? The hypocrisy of it really got to me. I know I should be used to it by now, because hypocrisy is all I ever see, but now...

Thoughts?

This is exactly what I have said long ago about N/H fans changing Hinata's personality for Sakura's. They hate Sakura because she hits Naruto they flame her bash her and call her the biggest b**** in the whole world. But if its Hinata the one who hits Naruto they don't see nothing wrong on the contrary they think she's cute, funny and a tsundere they worship her and praised her like she was the goddess of the world not a single insult because she hit Naruto . Do I hear the word "hypocrisy" here?

Here's a nice question why do they change Hinata's personality with Sakura's if they hate her so much?

Edited by Gravenimage, 13 January 2010 - 01:39 AM.

[RyrineaHaruno]

This is why the NH fans, have lost all my respect that I had for them. I have seen them change Naruto's and Hinata's personalty to the point that they are not the same character any more.

Edited by RyrineaHaruno, 13 January 2010 - 01:39 AM.

[Evil Potato]

I'm sorry I had to bring this ...lovely little thing here... But I just wanted to hear your opinions on it.



There, at the end. Hinata acting totally OOC, like a TsunDere.

In my opinion, I think, if you want Naruto to be with a Tsundere, then why hate NaruSaku? The hypocrisy of it really got to me. I know I should be used to it by now, because hypocrisy is all I ever see, but now...

Thoughts?

The thought of Naruto being paired with someone who has a soft personality was never very realistic. I guess NH fans want Hinata to have some strength in her personality, just like Sakura has an incredibly powerful personality which in turn she keeps Naruto's perversion to a minimum.

[Gravenimage]

EvilPotato@

You have hit the nail on the head and you just answer my question. N/H fans know very well that Hinata doesn't have character and someone like her can't be pair with someone loud like Naruto not to mention that she will never set him straight when he acts stupid or perverted. So it's better to change her personality with the only girl they hate very much and see lots of potential to be the one to be together with Naruto.

Edited by Gravenimage, 13 January 2010 - 02:03 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

He sees her cry and thinks it's weakness, he doesn't go after her like he would a guy because she's a girl and he doesn't expect her to be tough. He doesn't realize the tears aren't weakness but just a way of processing stress and trauma. She cries, then pulls herself together and gets stronger. It's a pretty accurate picture of how many emotionally strong women process stress and trauma.

Naruto doesn't treat Sakura any different than Sakura is treating Naruto. His protectiveness is born from love, not from thinking she is weak. When you love someone, you want to take care of them. That doesn't not automatically mean you think you are better or stronger than them. Sakura right now is trying to protect Naruto's feelings as well, and yet you aren't saying she is underestimating his emotional strength.

Men do not like to see the woman they love cry. It bothers Naruto that Sakura cries, but he doesn't give any hint that he thinks she is weak. He draws from her strength (she has given him pep talks) and he helps her with confidence issues as well.

[ciardha]

EvilPotato@

You have hit the nail on the head and you just answer my question. N/H fans know very well that Hinata doesn't have character and someone like her can't be pair with someone loud like Naruto not to mention that she will never set him straight when he acts stupid or perverted. So it's better to change her personality with the only girl they hate very much and see lots of potential to be the one to be together with Naruto.

And look how they sexually objectify Hinata too. That's way OOC for Hinata who is very self-conscious about her large breasts. That makes me shake my head too. Hinata would never dress like that, not in a million years. They completely misunderstand her character.

Not that Sakura would dress like that- in public. In private with Naruto I could see some sexy clothes- especially like wearing a kimono in a traditional sexy fashion- showing a lot of neck at the back and showing some leg in the front. Not S&M gear, and not the nothing but a frilly apron either or a sexy maid outfit either- those would feel degrading to her. Sakura would like sexy clothes that also was romantic.

[fireandice]

I'm sorry I had to bring this ...lovely little thing here... But I just wanted to hear your opinions on it.



There, at the end. Hinata acting totally OOC, like a TsunDere.

In my opinion, I think, if you want Naruto to be with a Tsundere, then why hate NaruSaku? The hypocrisy of it really got to me. I know I should be used to it by now, because hypocrisy is all I ever see, but now...

Thoughts?

...Seriously? That Hinata bore ZERO resemblance to Kishimoto's Hinata. There wasn't even showing her blushing in an embarrassed way or stuttering, even if a little. It sounded more like Sakura, seriously. Haha, I myself have always been annoyed by the way some NaruHina fans portray Hinata. Hello, Hinata has a quieter and gentle demeanour because THAT'S HER!

Plus what's with ANBU Hinata? Hinata is like the last person I could see joining the ANBU with her current personality, honestly, not that she's a coward or anything (in fact far from it) but ANBU does the dirtiest and bloodiest of missions, it's just not her.

I know there are NaruHina fans who like the pairing because it's cute, and those usually don't change Hinata's personality so much, that's fine. But I admit I find it kind of annoying how Hinata is always glorified or remade until her character is unrecognisable by some fans =__=.

I don't know, but I remember faintly when Kushina's appearance was revealed, we had some NaruHina fans claiming Hinata looks more like Kushina then Sakura. Or that MinaKushi = NaruHina because Naruto's personality is like Kushina and Minato is quiet like Hinata (?!).

(Let's be honest, Naruto seems to have more of his dad's taste in women so far . If anyone resembles Kushina more, it's more like Sakura. Of course, to begin with, they're far from being exactly alike in the first place in terms of personality, but if we wanted compare, yeah.)

Sorry, but really, I would like to see for any pairing more logic used from the manga instead of strange distortions of reality

Edited by fireandice, 13 January 2010 - 03:05 AM.

[firegirl]

god these debates are getting tiredsome can some one explain how part 1 will help show that sasuke is going to go back to konoha and still care for his team??

The past has a significant role in the Present.
Sasuke's past lead him to his current present.
Sakura and Naruto's past is what leads you guys to like the couple.
Saying the past doesnt mean anything is false

.

He had a flashback about his old team. It showed he did had a piece of them left in his heart, INCLUDING SAKURA. For you to say, for anyone to say, he never gave a damn about Sakura is denial. It has been showed he has cared for her. The confession scene he didnt take him with her, maybe because he wanted to protect her? I know thats just speculation but heres factual information.
Curse Mark Sasuke Chuunin exams, he was trying to avenge Sakura and then stopped because she cried. I guess that was because he wanted to not because he cared for her, wrong. Sasuke has protected Sakura many times.

both qoutes are sasusaku(i hate these fans more then naruhina)

i swear shes going to be the death of me.

also the thing is sasuke has changed compleatly now

the only one i think kishi is showing his change from is

KARINS POV another it seems she was created for

because of his changing attitud and darker chakura its scaring karin

i have no doubt that sasuke will want to kill sakura NOW because she is going to be in his way for destroying konoha

Edited by firegirl, 13 January 2010 - 03:07 AM.