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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#32761 KnS

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:27 AM

I just watched a Harry x Hermione video and all 101 reasons why to ship it and I started to realise that pairing is like NaruSaku. I'm very disappointed that it didn't happen. I hope NaruSaku becomes canon soon or we will have the same fate as Harry Potter.

 

I don't understand how people can reach such an extreme conclusion.  Harry/Hermione is really not like NS, except in the sense that they are two-thirds of the trio of lead characters. Sure, you can find some similarities, but there are just as many if not more aspects that are not similar.  

 

Like Ron, Naruto is considered to be the classless, hot-headed idiot.  Ron-haters say that Ron was a stupid, inept slacker who would never have amounted to anything if he hadn't ridden on the coattails of Harry and Hermione, but Naruto would not have made it as far either if not for the help, inspiration, support, and competition of Sakura and Sasuke.

 

Ron and Hermione's relationship had an argumentative, combative element like NS.  Hermione was a classic tsundere, but focused on Ron rather than the main hero.  From the moment they met on the train, Ron was the hapless loser on the receiving end of Hermione's haughty condescension that masked her own insecurities.  

 

By the time we got to Goblet of Fire, the tsundere's confused and frustrated feelings burst out in a tantrum that should have left readers in no doubt that Ron was the one for whom Hermione had romantic feelings. 

 

I see the arguments for H/Hr to be the same as NH and SS.  You can prefer a pairing, and find a lot of reasons to support your way of thinking, but it doesn't change the fact that the characters aren't written that way.

Did you know J.K Rowling said she regretted pairing Hermione and Ron 

 

Actually, she didn't say that at all.  When that interview hit the news, as usual most of the media chose to spin it in the most sensational way possible, and misled a lot of people as to what Rowling actually said.  You have to read the full transcript to get the real meaning of her comments.

 

In context, her comments suggest that Hermione might have had a calmer, more compatible life with Harry, because she and Ron were opposites in so many ways and over time it might have been difficult to deal with their differences.  

 

But even after expressing her doubts about the longevity of Ron/Hermione, Rowling concluded by saying, "Oh, maybe she and Ron will be alright with a bit of counseling, you know. I wonder what happens at wizard marriage counseling? They’ll probably be fine. He needs to work on his self-esteem issues and she needs to work on being a little less critical."

 

Of course that part wasn't a quote that could be sensationalized, so most people never heard it.

Well technically, people see it as Ron x Hermione, so we're safe?

 

In a way, I guess.  But the "safety" comes from what's actually written in the story.  People can scream H/Hr all they want, and swear up and down that it was better, should have happened, etc., etc. (like NH and SS do), but the bottom line is that the story was written with Ron/Hermione as endgame just as Naruto has been written with NS as endgame.

I really hope Kishi doesn't get tempted by fans to make NH and SS canon like J.K. Rowling with HarryXJinny and RonXHermione. I do enjoy the set pairings, but I was so surprised when Hermione got with Ron. I was like when did THAT happen? It seemed like HarryXHermione was end-game, as she had planned, but J.K. Rowling changed it for the fans. 

 

I don't know how this stuff gets so twisted up.  Rowling did not change anything in her story for "fans."  She wrote exactly what she planned to write -- which is Ron/Hermione -- and has said so many times, most recently in the February interview:

"What I will say is that I wrote the Hermione/Ron relationship as a form of wish fulfillment. That’s how it was conceived, really. For reasons that have very little to do with literature and far more to do with me clinging to the plot as I first imagined it, Hermione with Ron."

 

So this rumor that JK Rowling bowed to the pressure of Ron/Hermione fans and didn't write her vision is just a load of crap.

That doesn't make sense... If Kushina meant "find a girl who truly loves you," she would have said that. 

 

I agree completely.  Kushina's words were specific to include personality for a reason.  We are meant to realize that Kushina's personality was a big part of what Minato liked, and a big part of what made their relationship work.

 

And really, personality is the biggest difference between Sakura and Hinata as they are written.  They are both nice girls, fighting for good, who come from good backgrounds, both intelligent, etc.  The big difference is in the way they assert and express themselves.

 

The icing on the cake is the fact that most of Naruto's interactions with Hinata are rooted in her inability to function in ways to which he can relate.  Right off the bat he thinks she is "dark" and "weird."  She offers to let him cheat (and therefore risks his dream), she faints when he tries to speak to her casually, she constantly doubts herself and others, and wrings her hands even in the middle of battle, requiring pep talks and continual reassurance.

 

Meanwhile he thinks Sakura is amazing (able to walk up the tree first, able to save Kankuro from the poison), and when his clone encounters her at the hospital tent he remarks in a pleased sort of way that she doesn't need help.  Her confidence and capability adds to his own.

 

Yeah, it's not just about Kushina wishing for her son to choose someone who is loving, but someone who is like her -- someone she could relate to, and be able to rest at peace in the knowledge that he was partnered with someone who can carry her own weight and have enough left over to lend him the support he needs to become whatever he wants to be.

 

Just my opinion.



#32762 Gojira

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:29 AM

The fact that Naruto even has this big of a pairing war, most probably will make Kishi leave the series open ended when it comes to pairings. I don't know what he's doing... 

Then he will just end up pissing everyone off.


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#32763 rocci

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:31 AM

School day ending?
So naruto will bang sakura, Hinata, ino, tenten, temari, karui, samui, and tsunade?
And sakura will pregnant with naruto child and kitten happen?

Seem like better love story than twillight :zaru:

#32764 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 08:05 AM

It's kinda hard getting invested into a long series after Naruto for me, the only other manga/anime I read/watch is FairyTail and even then I can't keep up.


I really hope Kishi doesn't get tempted by fans to make NH and SS canon like J.K. Rowling with HarryXJinny and RonXHermione. I do enjoy the set pairings, but I was so surprised when Hermione got with Ron. I was like when did THAT happen? It seemed like HarryXHermione was end-game, as she had planned, but J.K. Rowling changed it for the fans. But I'm sure Kishi can't be that easily swayed if he plans for NS. :D

you think Kishi gives a damn? Lol it's obvious he don't. He gone do his story how he want it. They can send him death threats lol all he gone do is look at it scratch his head and throw it away because he ain't gone read the kitten lol.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 15 September 2014 - 10:02 AM.

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#32765 Anthony

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:26 AM

My God, there are so many NH shippers. If NS becomes canon (which it will) there will be riots.  :sweat:

Let them riot all they want. Harmless people oppose no threat to oneself.



#32766 Princess Iris

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 09:37 AM

I'm going to hide in a corner after NS becomes canon so I don't have to see the haters.... :unsure:

I think the reaction will be very much like "writer sucks" or "story sucks" or bla bla bla


Actually ppl are very much biased ....but hiding urself will increase their stamina

But that doesn't mean we won't do the same
We too want NS as badly as them...but there are differences

#32767 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 10:19 AM

comparison. When you said Hinata went heel, sound to me like she going to become psycho? But I think I am wrong so by do you mean by that?

Oh, yeah, exactly.

 

That anime was wacky. Sad, because 5 episodes and down were pretty good. Heck, best argument to use what if energetic guy dates a shy girl. But sadly, let's make him a player! Imagine Naruto being one after NS is canon. Won't that make everyone happy........................



#32768 luffyq1

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 11:51 AM

Oh, yeah, exactly.

 

That anime was wacky. Sad, because 5 episodes and down were pretty good. Heck, best argument to use what if energetic guy dates a shy girl. But sadly, let's make him a player! Imagine Naruto being one after NS is canon. Won't that make everyone happy........................

It's tiring dealing with Sakura-chan. When Naruto says that that's when it'll head into the School days route.


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#32769 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 12:43 PM

It's tiring dealing with Sakura-chan. When Naruto says that that's when it'll head into the School days route.

Even though technically makes more sense with Hinata if we have to do it similar, might as well. Hell, at least this series established that they fight instead out of nowhere serial killer level. But yeah, do that, just make sure you sail away.

#32770 Uzumaki9000

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 01:55 PM

Don't worry, in Japan NS is more popular.

And Hinata is very unpopular in Japan. 



#32771 Paul Blowfish

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 02:12 PM

@KnS Really? I've been told she got pressured into writing it for fans. I've been lied to my entire life.

you think Kishi gives a damn? Lol it's obvious he don't. He gone do his story how he want it. They can send him death threats lol all he gone do is look at it scratch his head and throw it away because he ain't gone read the kitten lol.


lol. Good point, I guess I just forgot that Kishi wouldn't care if his fans wanted to kill him because NH and SS didn't become canon.

Edited by Paul Blowfish, 15 September 2014 - 02:14 PM.

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#32772 DarkRadeon

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 03:05 PM

@KnS Really? I've been told she got pressured into writing it for fans. I've been lied to my entire life.


lol. Good point, I guess I just forgot that Kishi wouldn't care if his fans wanted to kill him because NH and SS didn't become canon.

 

Firstly having read the entire series let me tell you there was no romantic relationship between Harry and Hermione at all.He had dated Cho Chang and Ginny and he was actually given advice by Hermione on how to behave with girls.There is absolutely no comparison between that and NS.Was Harry clamouring for dates with Hermione?Had he blushed before Hermione?No

 

The pairings in Harry Potter were no where near obvious except nearing the last 2 books in which Harry started to look at Ginny and they kissed each other with Ginny saying "I know you cant date me because you are saving the world" .Ron was also suddenly overprotective of Hermione in the last book when they were searching Horcruxes.

 

But in the series's case romance pairings were begun to be developed only in the last 2 books and there was development between GinnyHarry and RonHermione

 

In Naruto,we have hardly any Hinata development,just the confession and the handhold and SS development is all in the red.

 

The only fear I have is that some are saying that since Naruto feels Sakura likes Sasuke he will push for SS to happen



#32773 KnS

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 03:35 PM

@KnS Really? I've been told she got pressured into writing it for fans. I've been lied to my entire life.

 

Yes, I'm afraid your sources have lied to you. Rowling never had Harry/Hermione in mind, never wrote them as having any romantic interest in each other, and never wavered from her intentions in that regard.

The pairings in Harry Potter were no where near obvious except nearing the last 2 books 

 

Actually, it was much earlier.  JK Rowling herself said, "I will say, that yes, I personally feel – well it’s going to be clear once people have read book six. I mean, that’s it. It’s done, isn’t it? We know. Yes, we do now know that it’s Ron and Hermione. I do feel that I have dropped heavy – hints.  ANVIL-sized, actually, hints, prior to this point. I certainly think even if subtle clues hadn’t been picked up by the end of Azkaban, that by the time we hit Krum in Goblet"

 

So Rowling expected readers to be able to guess what was coming by the end of the third book. 

The only fear I have is that some are saying that since Naruto feels Sakura likes Sasuke he will push for SS to happen

 

Naruto will never want or "push" for SS to happen.  He would simply be standing aside because he loves Sakura enough to want her happiness more than his own.

 

The important thing to remember is that Naruto wants Sakura for himself.  That was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt when she first said she loved him during her confession.  The look on his face said it all.  

 

The fact that Naruto has never given up on his feelings for her is how he will ultimately win.  His steadfast devotion to her and to the truth in his own heart will outlast her confusion over Sasuke, and he won't have to stand aside.



#32774 ns.Believe.It

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 04:21 PM

 

Yes, I'm afraid your sources have lied to you. Rowling never had Harry/Hermione in mind, never wrote them as having any romantic interest in each other, and never wavered from her intentions in that regard.

 

Actually, it was much earlier.  JK Rowling herself said, "I will say, that yes, I personally feel – well it’s going to be clear once people have read book six. I mean, that’s it. It’s done, isn’t it? We know. Yes, we do now know that it’s Ron and Hermione. I do feel that I have dropped heavy – hints.  ANVIL-sized, actually, hints, prior to this point. I certainly think even if subtle clues hadn’t been picked up by the end of Azkaban, that by the time we hit Krum in Goblet"

 

So Rowling expected readers to be able to guess what was coming by the end of the third book. 

Rowling said she expected readers to guess Ron-Hermione after reading the third book?! LOL. What a joke. There was nothing in the third book except Ron and Hermione bickering at each other because of Crookshanks and Scabbers.

I got the Ron getting jealous because of Hermione-Krum in the fourth book but to say there were hints in the third book?  :no:

 

And as far as I can remember this was written on the back cover of the fourth book- ' Harry and Ron have just started to notice girls ' . There was NOTHING romance related in the third book!


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#32775 KnS

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 04:42 PM

Rowling said she expected readers to guess Ron-Hermione after reading the third book?! LOL. What a joke. There was nothing in the third book except Ron and Hermione bickering at each other because of Crookshanks and Scabbers.

I got the Ron getting jealous because of Hermione-Krum in the fourth book but to say there were hints in the third book?  :no:

 

And as far as I can remember this was written on the back cover of the fourth book- ' Harry and Ron have just started to notice girls ' . There was NOTHING romance related in the third book!

 

You'll have to take this argument to Rowling herself.  I'm just the messenger.  She clearly believes otherwise, based on her statements.

 

And for what it's worth, lots of people had it figured out from the very first book where things were going to go, so I think (like so many things in life) it depends on the person.  Also, Harry's rescue of Ginny in the second book was rife with implication.

 

However, I do believe Rowling overestimated the perceptive powers of her target reading audience.  After all, the vast majority were children and teens who would not be sifting for clues with the same relationship experience as adults.  But then, throughout the series she had a tendency to saturate the subtext with an adult perspective.

 

And now we must get back on topic.  (If anyone is interested in a Potter-related thread, we can create one.)



#32776 DarkRadeon

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 04:46 PM

Is it possible that when Naruto said "Anyway not everything is going as Mom had told" that he has found girl but she is not like Kushina but he loves her?Most of the NH arguments are using this.



#32777 elmas

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 04:52 PM

Is it possible that when Naruto said "Anyway not everything is going as Mom had told" that he has found girl but she is not like Kushina but he loves her?Most of the NH arguments are using this.

No.I think he's not only talking about his lovelife.He's bad at studies too.He still loves Sakura but he didn't confess yet and he thinks she still loves Sasuke .But he said he's trying his best so we can say he's not giving up on her.Ignore that NH fans they only see that "not everything is going as mom said" part.


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#32778 ns.Believe.It

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 04:57 PM

And for what it's worth, lots of people had it figured out from the very first book where things were going to go, so I think (like so many things in life) it depends on the person.  Also, Harry's rescue of Ginny in the second book was rife with implication.

 

However, I do believe Rowling overestimated the perceptive powers of her target reading audience.  After all, the vast majority were children and teens who would not be sifting for clues with the same relationship experience as adults.  But then, throughout the series she had a tendency to saturate the subtext with an adult perspective.

Oh I had figured out there was no way Harry and Hermione could end up together because nothing was ever hinted. Except that one hug Hermione gave Harry after he saved the school in the second book, there wasn't anything else.

 

Rowling did a terrible job in two aspects-The way she resolved the romance and The anti-climatic Harry-Voldemort final battle. The romance was sudden, poorly explained and pretty lame. 

And now we must get back on topic.  (If anyone is interested in a Potter-related thread, we can create one.)

Got it  :D


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#32779 KnS

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:17 PM

Rowling did a terrible job in two aspects-The way she resolved the romance and The anti-climatic Harry-Voldemort final battle. The romance was sudden, poorly explained and pretty lame.

 

In your opinion. There are multitudes of people who do not agree with either point of your assessment.  If for some people the setup of the romances was obvious since the first book, and they recognized the author's clues as the story progressed, obviously for those readers it was neither sudden, nor poorly explained, nor "lame."

 

And the exact same thing is going to happen in this fandom.  Assuming that NS is indeed confirmed by the conclusion of the manga (or upcoming movie), once it's all over there will be people who will continue to deny that NS was ever foreshadowed.  There will be people who say that Sakura's feelings changing to Naruto was sudden, poorly explained, lame, etc.  That NH and SS would have been better.  That they were misled by the author's terrible writing, yadda, yadda, yadda.  

 

It's just part of the deal with the interpretation of art or literature.  What's interesting to me is that readers frequently believe their interpretation carries more weight than authorial intent (especially when that intent is clearly vocalized), and if there is a mismatch it is the author's fault for writing poorly instead of the reader's fault for misinterpreting.

 

Sometimes it is the writer's fault, but it is a more difficult case to win when many readers can and do interpret the author's intentions just fine.

 

Kishimoto has made a number of glaring mistakes with his story, but I don't think the implementation of his intentions regarding the final pairing is going to be one of them.



#32780 Transformers03

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 05:25 PM

 

In your opinion. There are multitudes of people who do not agree with either point of your assessment.  If for some people the setup of the romances was obvious since the first book, and they recognized the author's clues as the story progressed, obviously for those readers it was neither sudden, nor poorly explained, nor "lame."

 

And the exact same thing is going to happen in this fandom.  Assuming that NS is indeed confirmed by the conclusion of the manga (or upcoming movie), once it's all over there will be people who will continue to deny that NS was ever foreshadowed.  There will be people who say that Sakura's feelings changing to Naruto was sudden, poorly explained, lame, etc.  That NH and SS would have been better.  That they were misled by the author's terrible writing, yadda, yadda, yadda.  

 

It's just part of the deal with the interpretation of art or literature.  What's interesting to me is that readers frequently believe their interpretation carries more weight than authorial intent (especially when that intent is clearly vocalized), and if there is a mismatch it is the author's fault for writing poorly instead of the reader's fault for misinterpreting.

 

Sometimes it is the writer's fault, but it is a more difficult case to win when many readers can and do interpret the author's intentions just fine.

 

Kishimoto has made a number of glaring mistakes with his story, but I don't think the implementation of his intentions regarding the final pairing is going to be one of them.

 

I agree with you whole heartedly, but I just don't know if we are the fans that are misinterpreting the series. I don't believe we are, as there has been many implications that has been leading to NS, yet because NH and SS are so much larger than us, it makes me question (at times) that they may have a point.






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