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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#32681 Inferno180

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 04:20 PM

One of the deals one could infer with Sakura though is, she is yes the one we have seen the most with Naruto, in many situations, she has seen him at the start and to the end for now, she has seen him in his best and his worst (like when Jiraya died) even then she wanted to help but tsunade just told her to let Naruto be for a while.

 

The point is, Sakura is a character who has seen naruto the most in the majority of the story, from times when he seemed like a hopeless loser to seeing him not be what she intially thought, basically her view in part 1, as we all know, was that she was wrong at first and came to be friends with him, there was the small stuff she warmed up to him with, like the chunin exams, but then there was the big stuff like when she learned he saved her from gaara and the deal of naruto going through with the promise, despite the failure.

 

Sakura is kinda like the audience's window in that, she was been a point of convection that at many points in the story, kinda like how at the promise, or the deal of what sasuke became, and the hope for team 7 having a good ending, the point is that its like when things seem hopeless, as naruto has been there many times, the point with her in the story in some ways is that she lets the audience know that there is still a possible resolution for naruto's obsticles, that because she can see it too, even when it seemed like it was too far too late in many deals like the promise again, the land of iron, and naruto almost dying from extraction, sakura has been at some points, used as a means of well, hope for the audience to know that, naruto, the hero, will overcome this.

 

By all means, this is not something direct, what is more direct is just as a character herself, sakura has been that one that was annoyed and didn't like naruto much but at this point its nearly the pure opposite, she supports him, she is devoted to naruto so much that she even considered Obito an ally despite what he did, she supports him without a second thought. Her own development in regards to both her team, naruto, and her own abilities are what has defined her character, she found her role for the team as a medic, she changed dynamically with naruto, this relationship is still the most dynamic in the entire series, and yes got better in her own abilities. All the while, she came to learn more and more about the stuff impacting her teammates, and Sakura has always been that girl who has a good heart and could be stubborn and at times caused more unintentionally, but always meaned well in her actions. She always had a good reason for someone else, like yes naruto in the land of iron, as much as people blindly blast her still today for it, even when kishi says he felt he decipeted her as being a heroine in considering narutos situation and trying to make amends/make things better for him, it was always his feelings she had at heart. Thought she learned it was not only for the reasons she thought as others like shizune said. The promise was just one part of that whole element with why he wanted to save sasuke. Though again, Sakura came out of this shortcoming and learned to not let it all fall on naruto and she has stuck with this the whole time, not letting him do it all, this is why we got that stuff in the war from her and other stuff like the deal of her and obito saving sasukes ass when naruto couldn't.

 

The best deal about Sakura, the thing that makes her a great character, its her dynamics and her flaws, yes its that dynamic primarily with how she changed in regards to naruto and coming to like him, but also in seeing sasuke was not perfect, that to be a ninja, she had to be serious and prepped for the worst, better her own abilities, get better for her team, gained convictions and determination in protecting what was important to her (her team), she grew up a lot from the love struck girl in chapter 3. And the best deal is yes, her flaws, its sakuras flaws that have made her among one of the best characters in this series. She isn't perfect, because perfect is boring hell this is why I don't care for Hinata, because if she is some simplistic and perfect, I already know what would occur with her so I would not be interested if that was the case as fans put it, but for sakura this isn't even going on the fact that she is well normal, she has a normal background but in the context of her team and how naruto, sasuke, and kakashi all lost people they cared about, this made sakura unique in that she never experienced a loss. What it did for her is that it gave her something to cherish, something to protect, it was to realize her weaknesses and rise above it, it was to do what she could for others like naruto that she couldnt before, it was to essentially mature and grow beyond what she once thought was so simple. The very fact that Sakura was the normal one but grew in regards to the stuff naruto faced is why I like her, its why many others like sakura. She was normal but became extraordinary after going through many situations and trials and frankly, at this point when she is no longer the sasuke obsessed, naruto ignoring, not very talented girl to the one who knows what sasuke has become, cares for naruto to no end and supporting him and his dream, and now wields the power her very master uses, this is a case of a great deal of a comparison for a character you see at the start and to what you see now. Sakura has changed and she has been flawed but learned from those flaws and thats why I like her. Its that very fact along with her dynamic with naruto and her abilities as a ninja that make me like her, how she got serious after seeing naruto go through the failure of getting sasuke back, that was a great moment for her. And its gone far beyond just getting sasuke back, to her, now with concerns on naruto and how much care she has gotten with him over the development, this is why I like a flawed character like sakura, she becomes better because of these flaws. Because at this point when she has become strong for her own reasons and supports narutos dream at this point aside from just being best friends (with the possibility of something more), this is a truly dynamic character.



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#32682 narusaku256

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:14 PM

Sakura is defenitely one of the main prominent supporters of Naruto. But Kishimoto has made Iruka sensei the one character who was the first to rescue Naruto from his darkness and stay there as his parent figure. He is the reason Naruto has chosen the path of love, not hatred like Sasuke. Iruka sensei always appears there when Nauruto needs someone the most, like when Ero-senin died and Naruto was emotionally devastated. Or remember the very end of RtN. Yes, Iruka sensei is less involved in Naruto's current affairs, but he is a solid foundation of Naruto's world.
Sasuke is also often portrayed by Kishimoto as the second character to acknowledge Naruto. Even though Sasuke never supported Naruto directly, he SAW Naruto very early on. He looked directly at Naruto and was the first one to notice his progress. In flashbacks of his past Naruto always remembers Sasuke as his second supporter chronologically. Sasuke was alone just as Naruto was and that made Naruto feel less lonely, Naruto  wanted to be his friend from very early on, but envied him and became his rival. Of course, now Sasuke is not near him, but he still makes Naruto grow. And he was the first one, I think, to take Naruto's ambitions seriously.
 
Sakura and Kakashi became supporters third roughly at the same time as Team 7 was formed and started developing. Sakura has always been pretty late to grasp Naruto. Actually Sasuke made her recognize Naruto and it happened after Naruto vs Gaara fight. Sasuke said "You've never really seen him before" and then Sakura looked at Naruto and her expression changed. Of course, she supported him before too and she didn't want to see his dream crushed, even if she thought that it won't be fulfilled, but in reality she was pretty late to really awaken to Naruto's real potential.
Sakura as we know her now, a very strong supporter, appeared at the beginning of Part 2 and grew up till this very moment in the manga. She is always with Naruto, on all the missions, so it is natural that she is more of help to him than even Kakashi, especially emotionally. She has witnessed the most of Naruto's development. And she certainly gives Naruto A LOT of strength just by being there and advancing with him. She understands his dream and his pain. But she is still unable to grasp him truly in many ways. As she wasn't able to grasp his feelings for her before Sai told her. And she didn't notice the extent of Naruto's dedication to the promise that he gave her. And she knew him bad enough to lie to him about her feelings, underestimating him like that (even though I think of that moment as one of the most strong evidences of NS happening). This is just what comes to mind.
Sakura is a big supporter of Naruto, but I think it would be unfair to not give credit of "biggest supporters" to Iruka, Sasuke or Kakashi, even if she spends more time with him. She started supporting him roughly at the same time as other Konoha 11 did, though her support is much deeper, because he is her teammate and they have a big mututal history. I still think that Iruka grasps Naruto better than she does. And that she has a long way to go.
I also think that Sakura represents Naruto's path towards his dream. The growth of her feelings mirrors the path of Naruto's will and growth, as his fight towards Hokage title (and everything that is implied in it) continues. Her feelings reflect Naruto's growth. She started off not seeing him at all (less than many around Naruto), then she witnesses him just as we all, readers, do, and developes her trust and respect over time. It then transcends into actual feelings, understanding and care. She still doesn't grasp him full. And love is also ahead just as the Hokage title.

True that! But here, since it was a comparison between Hinata and Sakura...my post pertained to Sakura only :D while what you have stated is certainly true and cannot be ignored :D

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#32683 Alessa

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:18 PM

Jeez, guys, I read your posts and I almost feel bored that NS is so damn guarnateed and solid in canon. No mystery here.
Then I have to go to some logical and smart NH supporters and read their thoughts that bring a bit of doubt back, only then it all becomes interesting again. :D


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#32684 Alessa

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:18 PM

True that! But here, since it was a comparison between Hinata and Sakura...my post pertained to Sakura only :D while what you have stated is certainly true and cannot be ignored :D

Oh, ok then))


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#32685 questdrivencollie

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:24 PM

Jeez, guys, I read your posts and I almost feel bored that NS is so damn guarnateed and solid in canon. No mystery here.
Then I have to go to some logical and smart NH supporters and read their thoughts that bring a bit of doubt back, only then it all becomes interesting again. :D

Some do have interesting theories and arguments. I have yet to see one that convinces me that NS isn't at least the strongest possibility, but there will always been room for doubt until it's officially confirmed. 


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#32686 narusaku256

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:26 PM

Jeez, guys, I read your posts and I almost feel bored that NS is so damn guarnateed and solid in canon. No mystery here.
Then I have to go to some logical and smart NH supporters and read their thoughts that bring a bit of doubt back, only then it all becomes interesting again. :D

Are you sure you meant to say logical and smart NH supporters?

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#32687 elmas

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:35 PM

Are you sure you meant to say logical and smart NH supporters?

"logical and smart NH supporters?"

 

Are there NH fans like that?

:jawdrop:


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#32688 Alessa

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:39 PM

Are you sure you meant to say logical and smart NH supporters?

Well, I entered shipping wars for the first time in 12 years, so I am not very well informed, but quite a lot of people seem to write interesting analyses. They usually don't write that NH is confirmed, but that there is a big chance of it happening.  After all there is a bit of material to support that. I would share links, but I never saved them.

http://dattebae.tumb...ra-pro-naruhina


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#32689 narusaku256

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:48 PM

Well, I entered shipping wars for the first time in 12 years, so I am not very well informed, but quite a lot of people seem to write interesting analyses. They usually don't write that NH is confirmed, but that there is a big chance of it happening.  After all there is a bit of material to support that. I would share links, but I never saved them.
http://dattebae.tumb...ra-pro-naruhina

As far As rhings go...NH does have its moments but they are not a fare share of moments. Naruto has shown no signs of reciprocating feelings except care for a comrade. He still has his feelings fixated on Sakura. Jiraiya has left him a legacy and then we have an MK/NS parallel and the CPR and what not. NH has two moments at the most. They are the confession and the handhold. But even we have a confession which is ambiguously written but is said to be true by the author himself and then we have an even stronger moment than the handhold and that's the CPR. But oh well...to each their own...I guess...

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#32690 Alessa

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:59 PM

As far As rhings go...NH does have its moments but they are not a fare share of moments. Naruto has shown no signs of reciprocating feelings except care for a comrade. He still has his feelings fixated on Sakura. Jiraiya has left him a legacy and then we have an MK/NS parallel and the CPR and what not. NH has two moments at the most. They are the confession and the handhold. But even we have a confession which is ambiguously written but is said to be true by the author himself and then we have an even stronger moment than the handhold and that's the CPR. But oh well...to each their own...I guess...

As much as it cringes my bones when people use CPR as an NS moment (because it is as platonic and professional as things get in my vocabulary, and I know I am not supported here), you're true, of course. I just think that it would be somwhat boring if NS was predetermined, obvious, solid and canon already. Like all of the Fairy Tail pairings. We would all just share fanart here, not much to discuss. And I do believe that Hinata could be developed by the author as a second choice in case SS happens, although chances are very slim. 


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#32691 Alessa

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:14 PM

As far As rhings go...NH does have its moments but they are not a fare share of moments. Naruto has shown no signs of reciprocating feelings except care for a comrade. He still has his feelings fixated on Sakura. Jiraiya has left him a legacy and then we have an MK/NS parallel and the CPR and what not. NH has two moments at the most. They are the confession and the handhold. But even we have a confession which is ambiguously written but is said to be true by the author himself and then we have an even stronger moment than the handhold and that's the CPR. But oh well...to each their own...I guess...

And how was the confession confirmed by the author?? How was it said to be true?


Edited by Alessa, 14 September 2014 - 06:14 PM.

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#32692 Paul Blowfish

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:23 PM

As far As rhings go...NH does have its moments but they are not a fare share of moments. Naruto has shown no signs of reciprocating feelings except care for a comrade. He still has his feelings fixated on Sakura. Jiraiya has left him a legacy and then we have an MK/NS parallel and the CPR and what not. NH has two moments at the most. They are the confession and the handhold. But even we have a confession which is ambiguously written but is said to be true by the author himself and then we have an even stronger moment than the handhold and that's the CPR. But oh well...to each their own...I guess...



I don't understand how NH fans don't see all of NS's moments.
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#32693 elmas

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:27 PM

And how was the confession confirmed by the author?? How was it said to be true?

In an interview I believe.


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#32694 Raito

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:37 PM

I just watched the latest Naruto episode and there was a NS moment wow. 


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#32695 Alessa

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:38 PM

In an interview I believe.

Weeeell, what did he say?? :wibble:


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#32696 questdrivencollie

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:38 PM

 

I just watched the latest Naruto episode and there was a NS moment wow. 

 

The NS moment was cute, but that was the most random episode since the Kakashi's mask episode from the first series. lol


Edited by questdrivencollie, 14 September 2014 - 06:39 PM.

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#32697 Raito

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:43 PM

 

 
 

The NS moment was cute, but that was the most random episode since the Kakashi's mask episode from the first series. lol

 

Lmao, yea it was really random. I just love how Deidara is flying around while Naruto was celebrating.


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#32698 elmas

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 06:44 PM

Weeeell, what did he say?? :wibble:

"Sakura's confession was real, only the way she felt about Sasuke was a lie". 


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#32699 Hiraishin

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:21 PM

Sakura is defenitely one of the main prominent supporters of Naruto. But Kishimoto has made Iruka sensei the one character who was the first to rescue Naruto from his darkness and stay there as his parent figure. He is the reason Naruto has chosen the path of love, not hatred like Sasuke. Iruka sensei always appears there when Nauruto needs someone the most, like when Ero-senin died and Naruto was emotionally devastated. Or remember the very end of RtN. Yes, Iruka sensei is less involved in Naruto's current affairs, but he is a solid foundation of Naruto's world.
Sasuke is also often portrayed by Kishimoto as the second character to acknowledge Naruto. Even though Sasuke never supported Naruto directly, he SAW Naruto very early on. He looked directly at Naruto and was the first one to notice his progress. In flashbacks of his past Naruto always remembers Sasuke as his second supporter chronologically. Sasuke was alone just as Naruto was and that made Naruto feel less lonely, Naruto wanted to be his friend from very early on, but envied him and became his rival. Of course, now Sasuke is not near him, but he still makes Naruto grow. And he was the first one, I think, to take Naruto's ambitions seriously.

Sakura and Kakashi became supporters third roughly at the same time as Team 7 was formed and started developing. Sakura has always been pretty late to grasp Naruto. Actually Sasuke made her recognize Naruto and it happened after Naruto vs Gaara fight. Sasuke said "You've never really seen him before" and then Sakura looked at Naruto and her expression changed. Of course, she supported him before too and she didn't want to see his dream crushed, even if she thought that it won't be fulfilled, but in reality she was pretty late to really awaken to Naruto's real potential.
Sakura as we know her now, a very strong supporter, appeared at the beginning of Part 2 and grew up till this very moment in the manga. She is always with Naruto, on all the missions, so it is natural that she is more of help to him than even Kakashi, especially emotionally. She has witnessed the most of Naruto's development. And she certainly gives Naruto A LOT of strength just by being there and advancing with him. She understands his dream and his pain. But she is still unable to grasp him truly in many ways. As she wasn't able to grasp his feelings for her before Sai told her. And she didn't notice the extent of Naruto's dedication to the promise that he gave her. And she knew him bad enough to lie to him about her feelings, underestimating him like that (even though I think of that moment as one of the most strong evidences of NS happening). This is just what comes to mind.
Sakura is a big supporter of Naruto, but I think it would be unfair to not give credit of "biggest supporters" to Iruka, Sasuke or Kakashi, even if she spends more time with him. She started supporting him roughly at the same time as other Konoha 11 did, though her support is much deeper, because he is her teammate and they have a big mututal history. I still think that Iruka grasps Naruto better than she does. And that she has a long way to go.
I also think that Sakura represents Naruto's path towards his dream. The growth of her feelings mirrors the path of Naruto's will and growth, as his fight towards Hokage title (and everything that is implied in it) continues. Her feelings reflect Naruto's growth. She started off not seeing him at all (less than many around Naruto), then she witnesses him just as we all, readers, do, and developes her trust and respect over time. It then transcends into actual feelings, understanding and care. She still doesn't grasp him full. And love is also ahead just as the Hokage title.

Actually "you've never really seen him" is a mistranslation, what he actually said was more like "he displayed power he's never shown before."

Anyway I disagree on some points. If she was the way you described her then she wouldn't be special to Naruto, but she is. She, along with Iruka and the rest of Team 7, was one of the first people to acknowledge him, and saved him from the hell of loneliness. She supported and recognised his strength long before the rest of the Konoha 11 did. Remember Naruto's fight against Kiba during the chuunin exam? She was literally the only person (besides Kakashi) who didn't doubt him, who believed in him. And she was able to recognise his strength right from the start, as when he was fighting Kakashi during the first bell test she remarked that he was "pretty good," and was amazed by him when he fought Zabuza and later on when he showed up on the bridge she excitedly screamed his name.

The reason she didn't recognise the depth of his feelings for her is because he kept them hidden because he didn't feel worthy, because he hadn't kept his promise ("How can I [confess my feelings]? I can't even keep my promises...") On the contrary, I think she knew him well enough that she knew how Naruto would react to the news that the K11 was planning on offing Sasuke (it was one of the things that contributed to his hyperventilating and fainting), and how he would react to her trying to get him to give up on Sasuke, which is why she never planned on telling him the truth in the first place.

I think Sakura and Kakashi and Iruka are Naruto's biggest supporters, clearly. Her support is strongly shown in scenes like when she was going to give up the chuunin exams just so Naruto's dream wouldn't be crushed, and during the CPR scene when she said she absolutely wouldn't let him die and thought of his dream and how it's "right in front of them."
But I disagree that Sasuke is one of his biggest supporters. At this point, he doesn't support him at all (he plans on killing him and stealing his dream), and even in part one, when Naruto was getting stronger and stronger, instead of being pleased or proud or something, he got jealous and vindictive. He acknowledged him early on, sure, but acknowledging is not the same as supporting. And, I think Sakura is one of the people who understands him the most -- some examples showing this are when she conveyed his feelings to the alliance, and when she knew that the reason. But of course she can't understand him in quite the same way as, say, Iruka and Sasuke do, because they had similar experiences as Naruto, so that's not her fault.

"Sakura's confession was real, only the way she felt about Sasuke was a lie".

No no no, he never said that. The closest is when he said that he felt like portraying Sakura as an "honest girl, with a surprisingly stubborn impression" during the confession.

Edited by Hiraishin, 14 September 2014 - 08:22 PM.

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#32700 AHK

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:31 PM

I despise those people that say Neji died for NH and that his character is ruined if NH doesn't happen. Sorry to break it to you, but Neji snuffed it for Naruto, because he is the person with the power to save the world, not because his cousin is obsessed for someone that she doesn't really know that well. 


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