62735 replies to this topic

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Duh! Such a long explanation just to describe who mary-sue is.  But thx anyway, I've bookmarked it. Read it later. I've put it in the stacks of my homeworks. 

 

EDIT: I read it a bit tho. I bet what you're trying to tell me is the interpretations of Mary-sue, yeah?

To put it shortly A Mary-sue is a character that has no flaws in the eyes of people in-universe. She's perfect and idealized, has ridiculous power ups, everyone loves her and caters to her whims, she can never make mistakes and even if she does she's easily forgiven, because she's too perfect and lovable to ever actually be held accountable for her sins

A Mary-sue is the most special, most perfect being to the people around her.

To readers she's disgusting, fake and vomit worthy. 

 

[Nar123]

To put it shortly A Mary-sue is a character that has no flaws in the eyes of people in-universe. She's perfect and idealized, has ridiculous power ups, everyone loves her and caters to her whims, she can never make mistakes and even if she does she's easily forgiven, because she's too perfect and lovable to ever actually be held accountable for her sins

A Mary-sue is the most special, most perfect being to the people around her.

To readers she's disgusting, fake and vomit worthy. 

 

Perfect description of Hinata

[TouKen4Life3g]

I can say I had good dream...

 

Song

 

This is the song that playing while I have my hands on Kishimoto's assistant.

 

Thank you for idea.

[rocci]

To put it shortly A Mary-sue is a character that has no flaws in the eyes of people in-universe. She's perfect and idealized, has ridiculous power ups, everyone loves her and caters to her whims, she can never make mistakes and even if she does she's easily forgiven, because she's too perfect and lovable to ever actually be held accountable for her sins

A Mary-sue is the most special, most perfect being to the people around her.

To readers she's disgusting, fake and vomit worthy. 

 

That is sasuke. And Hinata in this movie.

[Popuri]

Hinata, her flaw make her cute.

I know mary-sue means hinata. What Idk is why hinata is called mary-sue. Only "her flaw make her cute"? Only that? WT~

 

 

To put it shortly A Mary-sue is a character that has no flaws in the eyes of people in-universe. She's perfect and idealized, has ridiculous power ups, everyone loves her and caters to her whims, she can never make mistakes and even if she does she's easily forgiven, because she's too perfect and lovable to ever actually be held accountable for her sins 

A Mary-sue is the most special, most perfect being to the people around her.

To readers she's disgusting, fake and vomit worthy. 

And this Mary-sue is a fictional character from fanfic? The original work doesn;t have it?

 

Perfect description of Hinata

I know, right?

Edited by xpopurix, 15 December 2014 - 02:27 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

That is sasuke. And Hinata in this movie.

No, this now applies to Hinata.

Hinata who jumps infront of a villian she has no chance against, Yet SP allows her to land hits on anyways. Hinata who brings a kittening scarf along on a mission where the objective is to rescue her sister. Hinata who despite being selfish, suicidal, and having no character becomes the heroine.

She is a Mary Sue and Sasuke is a Gary-stu. 

Hinata is a Mary-sue because SP and Kishimoto MADE her that way and the fans continue the trend by giving her ridiculous power ups and clapping like seals every time she does something dumb like tripping over a rock  

I reiterate, Hinata is a Mary-sue to her creator, to SP and to her fans. This is a character who can do no wrong despite doing WRONG. This is a character we are supposed to coo and sigh over just like characters would in a lame Fanfic with an OC who can sing like a popstar, pop a persons bone back into place perfectly, dresses like a duchess and makes villians and heroes into her buddies all alike with no consequences at all. 




 

Edited by Tsuki Hoshino, 15 December 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[Nar123]

 

And this Mary-sue is a fictional character from fanfic? The original work doesn;t have it?

Mary-sue is a character trope, its generally hated by the fans, there are exceptions tho

[Popuri]

No, this now applies to Hinata.

Hinata who jumps infront of a villian she has no chance against, Yet SP allows her to land hits on anyways. Hinata who brings a kittening scarf along on a mission where the objective is to rescue her sister. Hinata who despite being selfish, suicidal, and having no character becomes the heroine.

She is a Mary Sue and Sasuke is a Gary-stu. 

Hinata is a Mary-sue because SP and Kishimoto MADE her that way and the fans continue the trend by giving her ridiculous power ups and clapping like seals every time she does something dumb like tripping over a rock  

I reitterate, Hinata is a Mary-sue to her creator, to SP and to her fans. 

Okay. Okay. Now time to sleep.    Thx for the bedtime story tonight! 

 

 

Mary-sue is a character trope, its generally hated by the fans, there are exceptions tho

Where was I when Mary-sue happening? 

Edited by xpopurix, 15 December 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[六道仙人]

meh. the mary-sue is Hinata and the gary-stu is Itachi in this story. There was once a time where also Minato was a gary stu but not anymore after he failed many times lol

[Narufan85]

 

I loved the Pain arc. I thought it had such cohesion. Pain was a great villain, there were many layers to his villainy, many secrets to be divulged (the multiple Pains), and there were lots of storylines all tying together into a grand finale. There was a purpose to Pain's vengeance that you could understand without having to be forced to sympathise with. But when you did learn their backstory, you truly felt sympathy for them. Not forced, and not purposeless.

 

Even Danzo made a better villain than Madara or Kaguya or Zetsu.

 

Sorry...just reminiscing about when the series was still good. 

 

I'm just going to pretend the series ended with Pain. I thought it was an outstanding arc as well. Emotional, exciting, moving. The moment when Naruto arrives back in Konoha might be one of the best from the series. And, it ends with some great NS action!

 

I actually liked Madara as a villain. I wish we could have seen Team 7 fight him. It would have been better than the Kaguya clash.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Sakura is not perfect but that's why I love her. She's a character that makes mistakes but she learns from them. Hinata is a dumbass in distress.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

meh. the mary-sue is Hinata and the gary-stu is Itachi in this story. There was once a time where also Minato was a gary stu but not anymore after he failed many times lol

I never thought of Itachi as a Gary-stu since you know...he pretty much failed at everything. He over estimated his ability to guess the actions of others...particularly his brother. Thats what you get when you try to view people and life as a chess board you can play with though  

[Narufan85]

 

Right. Me too. I kept thinking it was all going somewhere. But it wasn't. And that doesn't mean I'm saying it just becuase it went in a direction I didn't want it to. No, in the end, none of the development was made good on. In fact it seems like Kishimoto went out of his way to create pairings that had no basis in the story, no support from the characters and no reason to be together except for shock value. 

 

All of the discussions we had, all of the theories, all of the development for NS — it all went nowhere. Because Kishimoto pulled a bait-and-switch in the last two chapters. Still astonishing, even a month and a half later.

 

And yeah, as someone posted earlier, I really have not been able to go back and look at any of the chapters. I'll never read the last two again. But the rest? Eh.... I can bear looking at images supporting NS. But looking back at the manga itself...it's like looking in the windows of a house I no longer live in. I can see where everything went, I can remember the life I had there, but no matter how familiar it feels, I know it's no longer mine. And I have to move on.

 

There's no happy ending for Naruto. Just an end.

 

There's a lesson here about giving creators too much credit. I've already compared Naruto to LOST, but it's kinda like True Detective, too. I got way too invested in reading into the clues and theories and exciting stuff in True Detective only to have its ending be, well, pretty bland and straight forward.

[AHK]

Hey, Ramen, one quick question about that thing you posted about the Japanese edit: when they referred to Naruto as a doll, were they implying that the Naruto that was present in the Last was not the real one?

I loved the Pain arc. I thought it had such cohesion. Pain was a great villain, there were many layers to his villainy, many secrets to be divulged (the multiple Pains), and there were lots of storylines all tying together into a grand finale. There was a purpose to Pain's vengeance that you could understand without having to be forced to sympathise with. But when you did learn their backstory, you truly felt sympathy for them. Not forced, and not purposeless.
 
Even Danzo made a better villain than Madara or Kaguya or Zetsu.
 
Sorry...just reminiscing about when the series was still good.

I agree. I loved Pain. I loved Nagato's speech about the way the world works. In general, the pain arc was great. My favorite villain though, and I'm probably gonna get hung here for this as everybody here hates him lol, is Obito. I just felt like while pain was a great villian, his motivator, pain (the feeling) wasn't as strongly felt with him as it was with Obito. I remember when I first read when when Obito witnessed Rin die and he flipped. I actually cringed, and I did so again when Madara told him that he planned Rin's death. I just felt that Obito's story was more emotional and personal, whereas pain's was sort of distant. I also loved the parallel Naruto and Obito had together.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Hey, Ramen, one quick question about that thing you posted about the Japanese edit: when they referred to Naruto as a doll, were they implying that the Naruto that was present in the Last was not the real one?


I agree. I loved Pain. I loved Nagato's speech about the way the world works. In general, the pain arc was great. My favorite villain though, and I'm probably gonna get hung here for this as everybody here hates him lol, is Obito. I just felt like while pain was a great villian, his motivator, pain (the feeling) wasn't as strongly felt with him as it was with Obito. I remember when I first read when when Obito witnessed Rin die and he flipped. I actually cringed, and I did so again when Madara told him that he planned Rin's death. I just felt that Obito's story was more emotional and personal, whereas pain's was sort of distant. I also loved the parallel Naruto and Obito had together.

i liked Obito...I didn't like Naruto's easy "Obito was a cool guy" kitten. 

 

[trang95]

Hey, Ramen, one quick question about that thing you posted about the Japanese edit: when they referred to Naruto as a doll, were they implying that the Naruto that was present in the Last was not the real one?


I agree. I loved Pain. I loved Nagato's speech about the way the world works. In general, the pain arc was great. My favorite villain though, and I'm probably gonna get hung here for this as everybody here hates him lol, is Obito. I just felt like while pain was a great villian, his motivator, pain (the feeling) wasn't as strongly felt with him as it was with Obito. I remember when I first read when when Obito witnessed Rin die and he flipped. I actually cringed, and I did so again when Madara told him that he planned Rin's death. I just felt that Obito's story was more emotional and personal, whereas pain's was sort of distant. I also loved the parallel Naruto and Obito had together.

Doesn't the general fandom agree that the quality of the Manga went down after the Pain Arc? I personally loved it (leaving out the confession of course which SP twisted and changed in every way) and thought that Pain/ Nagato was the last good villain the manga had.

Edited by trang95, 15 December 2014 - 02:53 PM.

[AHK]

i liked Obito...I didn't like Naruto's easy "Obito was a cool guy" bullsh**.

Welcome to the club, population: 2!!

I didn't really think that it was that big of a deal, I got the impression that Naruto was separating the different versions of Obito. When he made the statement, he was talking about the young Obito that wanted to be Hokage, and the current Obito that mirrored that sentiment while also admitting that he made a ton of mistakes, and that he was willing to work to overcome (and eventually die) to atone for those mistakes. It wasn't the best thing to say, but what else are you supposed to say when someone dies in front of you protecting you lol

Doesn't the general fandom agree that the quality of the Manga went down after the Pain Arc? I personally loved it (leaving out the confession of course which SP twisted and changed in every way) and thought that Pain/ Nagato was the last good villain the manga had.

Yeah, I think so. I think that the quality went downhill a bit, but I still think Obito was a great villain. All that followed were garbage.

Edited by AHK, 15 December 2014 - 02:59 PM.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

Welcome to the club, population: 2!!

I didn't really think that it was that big of a deal, I got the impression that Naruto was separating the different versions of Obito. When he made the statement, he was talking about the young Obito that wanted to be Hokage, and the current Obito that mirrored that sentiment while also admitting that he made a ton of mistakes, and that he was willing to work to overcome (and eventually die) to atone for those mistakes. It wasn't the best thing to say, but what else are you supposed to say when someone dies in front of you protecting you lol

"...Well, that happened."   

Joking, joking. I would probably be like "If things had been different...you would have been a man I could have looked up too." Or something. But you could be right about him separating the past and present Obito...but I still didn't think it was appropriate.

Obito reminds me of what a Dark Naruto who lost his Sakura-chan would be like...and I like the idea of it  

[Narufan85]

Obito had some very real reasons for becoming a villain. In my opinion, though, his awesomeness was ruined by Kishi's stupid "Spartacus" moment. 

 

Obito: I am the villain!

 

Madara: No! I am the villain!

 

Zetsu: You aren't! I am the villain!

 

Kaguya: I am the real villain!

 

The whole "who is the real mastermind" thing felt very cheap to me.

[TerrorKing]

 

Right. Me too. I kept thinking it was all going somewhere. But it wasn't. And that doesn't mean I'm saying it just becuase it went in a direction I didn't want it to. No, in the end, none of the development was made good on. In fact it seems like Kishimoto went out of his way to create pairings that had no basis in the story, no support from the characters and no reason to be together except for shock value. 

 

All of the discussions we had, all of the theories, all of the development for NS — it all went nowhere. Because Kishimoto pulled a bait-and-switch in the last two chapters. Still astonishing, even a month and a half later.

 

And yeah, as someone posted earlier, I really have not been able to go back and look at any of the chapters. I'll never read the last two again. But the rest? Eh.... I can bear looking at images supporting NS. But looking back at the manga itself...it's like looking in the windows of a house I no longer live in. I can see where everything went, I can remember the life I had there, but no matter how familiar it feels, I know it's no longer mine. And I have to move on.

 

There's no happy ending for Naruto. Just an end.

Yeah, that's what I hate the most about this ending. I didn't just ruin the ending, it ruined everything about the series. The manga, the anime. Even the video games. To think that just a little over a month ago I was still happily enjoying both the manga and the anime on a weekly basis. Now whenever I look back at all that time I spent following this series, it all feels so surreal.

 

So yeah, that analogy about the house is very fitting. This is no longer "our" series. This series now belongs to "them" and by that I mean all the new readers. The ones who are going to carry the Naruto franchise from here on out. I don't really mind that. I always thought that there was no way that the series wouldn't continue once the main story was done. But therein lies the problem. The series did in fact continue yes, but it just kinda forgot to finish the main story first.  

Edited by TerrorKing, 15 December 2014 - 03:07 PM.