54216 replies to this topic

[Lilac]

Dude, i don't even know what to say to that.

 

Perhaps I'm not making my point clear enough? I think it is in poor taste to use the assault of a woman as a way to make a jab at people who ship an opposing ship. What someone likes in fiction does not mean they also like it outside of a fictional setting. At all. I've been around fandom for a long time, about fourteen years now, and tastes are not a direct link to reality. That's like saying women with, ah, a certain  type of fantasy want to have that happen to them in real life. Trust me, they don't. Not at all. (I won't say it outright as I think younger people also come here) It's just not a good comparison and it is insulting.

 

Maybe I've just been watching anime/reading manga for too long (going on fourteen years now) but I have seen the SS trope a thousand times over (The villain/"anti hero"/rival character hurting a female character and then been redeemed/ending up with said female in the end) It's extremely overdone, actually. Not my thing, but I understand people do like it. I don't like ss, but saying that people who ship it are just like that woman who got assaulted...how can you not see how this is an insulting comparison towards this woman?

Edited by Lilac, 09 September 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[luffyq1]

If you're refering to the assault case that is going on now, I think that's a bit insensitive to the victim to compare that to a ship. SasuSaku isn't my cup of tea, but it's fictional-and a fairly popular trope in Manga/anime. There is a huge disconnect between these tropes and real life, and a woman was brutally beaten by her then fiance'. Please don't use that in a discussion about ships you don't like.

I hope this isn't directed at me because I did not compare real life domestic abuse to fiction. I merely brought up the fact that it sucks to be Ray Rice right now. 

[TouKen4Life3g]

I mean no disrespect or anything. I'm just saying that the idea of that event and let it be bygone just insults our intelligence. Yes, we shouldn't compare to fiction; however, that doesn't mean fiction shouldn't give a bad moral, especially when the story builds one up. We shouldn't take it serious sure, but there are reasons why we get upset at fiction doing bad morale. Otherwise, there won't be hate on Twilight or 50 Shades if we just take it as "It's only fiction."

[TouKen4Life3g]

Also, the hate for something real and something fiction are greatly differ, at least for me. Like something in real life I will hate it with a passion, thousand folds from fiction.

[Lilac]

My point doesn't have anything to do with calling ss abusive or problematic-it is! Just that real people should be left out of it, that's all.

[TouKen4Life3g]

My point doesn't have anything to do with calling ss abusive or problematic-it is! Just that real people should be left out of it, that's all.

I see what your point. I am targeting the mentality of people. It's like if you hear the story "why you marry that man who beat you down in that one incident" and she will say "Well, he makes good money and I can't let that slide." I don't want people to think everything is ok, when you gone through something like that, take a time off and see what you two can do. On the male side, what the hell you think a knock out is good idea to stop fight.

I'm just worried the mind of people has been altered. I don't know.

[Khaleesi]

 

Perhaps I'm not making my point clear enough? I think it is in poor taste to use the assault of a woman as a way to make a jab at people who ship an opposing ship. What someone likes in fiction does not mean they also like it outside of a fictional setting. At all. I've been around fandom for a long time, about fourteen years now, and tastes are not a direct link to reality. That's like saying women with, ah, a certain  type of fantasy want to have that happen to them in real life. Trust me, they don't. Not at all. (I won't say it outright as I think younger people also come here) It's just not a good comparison and it is insulting.

 

Maybe I've just been watching anime/reading manga for too long (going on fourteen years now) but I have seen the SS trope a thousand times over (The villain/"anti hero"/rival character hurting a female character and then been redeemed/ending up with said female in the end) It's extremely overdone, actually. Not my thing, but I understand people do like it. I don't like ss, but saying that people who ship it are just like that woman who got assaulted...how can you not see how this is an insulting comparison towards this woman?

I wasn't refering to that, but since i didn't explain, i deleted it. The comparison is wrong all the way. But i don't share your opinion on the "if people who like this kind of relationship in fiction doesn't mean they support this in real life".  Sexism is everywhere. Woman and the rest of people doesn't realise how to expand those point of view is harmful. They will think in their personal lifes that if someone ask for forgiveness everything is going to be okay. 

EDIT: I could explain this better but gotta go

Edited by theunburnt, 09 September 2014 - 05:00 PM.

[Liu bie]

Talking about the SS relationship could be abusive, still I cannot believe fans from SS accept that thing of clan restoration, meaning that almost every doujin made for fans Sasuke and Sakura have to make love. So NS is more innocent love.

[ns.Believe.It]

Talking about the SS relationship could be abusive, still I cannot believe fans from SS accept that thing of clan restoration, meaning that almost every doujin made for fans Sasuke and Sakura have to make love. So NS is more innocent love.

What's really funny is that these people claim to be big fans of Sasuke but they don't even understand what Sasuke meant when he said he wanted to restore his clan. 

[Lilac]

I wasn't refering to that, but since i didn't explain, i deleted it. The comparison is wrong all the way. But i don't share your opinion on the "if people who like this kind of relationship in fiction doesn't mean they support this in real life".  Sexism is everywhere. Woman and the rest of people doesn't realise how to expand those point of view is harmful. They will think in their personal lifes that if someone ask for forgiveness everything is going to be okay. 

EDIT: I could explain this better but gotta go

 

Sexism is fairly common in anime/manga, since the culture is very different from many Western point of views. I don't think, however, that people who like certain things in fiction also want them to be true in real life. I used another example, which can't be named because it's on the more vulgar side of things, but it's extremely common in fic. There are many reasons why women use it/like it-some are survivors and use it to cope, some just like the power dynamic (or lack there of), and some just find enjoyment in *..." is love" trope. I despise that certain thing in fiction, but I have had discussions with other women about it. It does not go into their real lives-they wouldn't want that to actually happen to them. Fiction is a safe place, a place where you can go to enjoy things you wouldn't in real life. That's just in general, though.

 

Anime/manga is a different beast entirely, and it's not a very good place to look for positive stories for women. The 'nongirly' girl being ugly/unattractive trope, for example, is pretty standard-and that's rather sexist in an of itself. And don't get me started on the fairly common use of fourteen year old girl+older man/uncle pairings you see often in Shoujo manga. It's...not a great place. I'm probably jaded at this point, though.

 

I will admit I may have taken it too personally, as I have female relatives who were subject to domestic abuse and I don't see ss in their situations.

[Kyaerai]

What's really funny is that these people claim to be big fans of Sasuke but they don't even understand what Sasuke meant when he said he wanted to restore his clan. 

Doesn't it mean he wants to restore it's honor or legacy or whatever

[narusaku256]

Doesn't it mean he wants to restore it's honor or legacy or whatever

Yes. But his fans(not everyone) think that he is some sex crazy maniac who is a baby making machine and wants some girl so that he can restore Uchiha's population.

[Kyaerai]

Yes. But his fans(not everyone) think that he is some sex crazy maniac who is a baby making machine and wants some girl so that he can restore Uchiha's population.

o_o Okay idk how they can say that when he has no interest in girls whatsoever lol

[TouKen4Life3g]

He pretty much made it clear that it's about honor.

[narusaku256]

o_o Okay idk how they can say that when he has no interest in girls whatsoever lol

EXACTLY!

Its funny how he ends up doing the exact opposite in the name of doing the opposite of the 'exact opposite' that is restoring the honour of the clan.

[Elicit]

Naruto: I just turned 17 yr old today so I don't quite know about booze or girls yet!
well mum told me to find a girl like her but...
that's...er...

Naruto: Anyways! as to what mum said, nothing has really gone well but!
I've been trying pretty hard!!

This is takl's translation.

[Khaleesi]

 

Sexism is fairly common in anime/manga, since the culture is very different from many Western point of views. I don't think, however, that people who like certain things in fiction also want them to be true in real life. I used another example, which can't be named because it's on the more vulgar side of things, but it's extremely common in fic. There are many reasons why women use it/like it-some are survivors and use it to cope, some just like the power dynamic (or lack there of), and some just find enjoyment in *..." is love" trope. I despise that certain thing in fiction, but I have had discussions with other women about it. It does not go into their real lives-they wouldn't want that to actually happen to them. Fiction is a safe place, a place where you can go to enjoy things you wouldn't in real life. That's just in general, though.

 

Anime/manga is a different beast entirely, and it's not a very good place to look for positive stories for women. The 'nongirly' girl being ugly/unattractive trope, for example, is pretty standard-and that's rather sexist in an of itself. And don't get me started on the fairly common use of fourteen year old girl+older man/uncle pairings you see often in Shoujo manga. It's...not a great place. I'm probably jaded at this point, though.

 

I will admit I may have taken it too personally, as I have female relatives who were subject to domestic abuse and I don't see ss in their situations.

 "I despise that certain thing in fiction, but I have had discussions with other women about it. It does not go into their real lives-they wouldn't want that to actually happen to them. Fiction is a safe place, a place where you can go to enjoy things you wouldn't in real life"  So, you say that, because of you have talked with women about it and they 2/3/10 women told you that they don't support it or doesn't want that in their life, it's true. That's the same of saying the oposite. I've seen a lot of women say that they want a relationship like Sasuke and Sakura and i didn't even know what to say. But again, that's not what i'm saying. I'm saying that those ideas are being expanded and it has been /it's/ it's going to be harmful. Are you saying that it's okay that women don't have to feel offended for that type of treatment to another women despite of being women themselves? Even if it's the representation of them in the point of view of probably a man or even worse a woman? That is that the way they see them and is going to be show for all over the world? Women themselves doesn't realise how disrespectful this is and how they are unconsciously helping this ideas to remain. 

In my country, a tv show was taken down. It's name is "Paisana Jacinta" and it's about a women, interpreted by a men, who is from the mountains. She comes to the capital wanting to gain money. She is clumsy, unintelligent, with talent to cheat or trick someone... but with a great heart after all!!! A lot of people take this as offensive. People of the capital city laught. I know that dark-humor exist, but if racism and sexim is so next to us, so real, why would someone mock of these actual problems? It's not like we are over them and we really KNOW the difference. Maybe 1, 2, 3% of the population understand that that's not what real life is. But we are not in time to let those things just happen. 

[六道仙人]

Naruto: I just turned 17 yr old today so I don't quite know about booze or girls yet!
well mum told me to find a girl like her but...
that's...er...

Naruto: Anyways! as to what mum said, nothing has really gone well but!
I've been trying pretty hard!!

This is takl's translation.

 

you should post this in the topic of relative chapter.

[BlazingDynamo]

I just thought of something of how NS could be canon!

[Sedna]

I just thought of something of how NS could be canon!

TELL US!!!!!!