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#3121 Phantom_999

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 04:39 AM

 

Dragneel was dead before the manga started, Silver was also dead, he was a Zombie or something, so I don't count either of their death as deaths that had an impact, plus you never got the chance to really fall in love with the charactors, they were in one arc and their purpose was to give their children a chance to lay some ghosts to bed and gain a powerup.

 

Ultear had a long history with the readers, we saw her as a enemy, as the wrongs daughter of Ur, the person who sought redemption, and ultimately sacrificed herself to turn the tide of the war with the Dragons. Her return just makes her final goodbye feel hollow now. it cheapens the manga as a whole, you need sacrifices to be made to keep the question of potential deaths in the future uncertain. Two weeks back when we were trying to be convinced that Laxus could die, had zero tension because we knew he would just like his grandfather multiple times end up surviving, but he is a FT member so we expect it.

 

Now with Ultear's return you don't even expect even any of the other named side charactors from other guilds to die either, and while we have a war going on, the tension or hype you should be feeling just isn't there because you don't feel like anyone will die, which for a battle manga where each fight is meant to be life or death situations, just makes you not care for the actual battles. It's dulled a large portion of the manga.

 

The relationships between the charactors is what's propping this manga up at the moment. It's the biggest selling point, the battles and even the story to an extent doesn't feel as important as much.

 

Really? The final good byes they had with their sons had no impact? That Natsu and Gray found out about their fathers after so many years whether they are already dead or not and that there was so much to be said yet they will never get a chance to has no impact? Especially for Natsu who was looking for Igneel all this time? Okay what ever you say. I suppose then, that Ace's death had no meaning too either, despite the fact that He's is practically the most important person in luffy's life. Sure he may have had WAY more development and back story than Igneel and Silver, but that doesn't change how much he means to Luffy and that Luffy felt utterlly powerless to save him is where the emotions  hit the breaking point. Well, same here.

 

Utear having her redemption and then having her come back cheapens the manga as a whole? Right. And yet One Piece villains are redeemed all the time and don't have to die for it, yet I don't hear you complaining about that. Is there a difference? Also are you saying then that you have problems with Sabo being alive cause his death is supposed to impact Luffy and Ace?

 

Side characters get killed all the time you just don't see on panel because they are side characters. plus It's the Fairy Tail guild. of Course it's member's wouldn't die. You say that you'd want one of the Straw hats Killed for the sake of "drama"? The only difference here is that Fairy Tail is a massive guild of 100+ members. Also the impact of the fights is lessened because there is no fear of death? Right. Again. So I suppose that you must have this problem with One Piece's fights too because nobody actually dies either, yet again I don't hear you complaining about that. And if you say deaths do happen in One Piece then they also happen in Fairy Tail, It just doesn't happen to characters the story isn't focused on.

 

Well if the relationships between characters are so important to the story, then they don't have to be broken or tragic to be appealing, do they? Couldn't the reason that such characters are alive is so that they cans CONTINUE the bonds that they developed? A bond can be shown as everlasting and deep without the need for it to be ripped apart cant't it? Well that's just my opinion on it at the very least.

 

Now I don't mean Offence but the thing is For all this criticism you give Fairy Tail, I see similar circumstances in One Piece, but I don't hear a peep from you regarding it, or at least to my knowledge. and yet even if it appears the same to me I do not judge the ideas and in fact enjoy them immensely, So I don't see any reason on why it must be done to Fairy Tail. Sure I may have problems with the writing at times but I just voice my opinion on it and doesn't think that it's "ruining the series" That is just me though.


Edited by Phantom_999, 23 February 2016 - 03:30 PM.

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#3122 rocci

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 05:14 AM

@phantom
Author is one of the thing that make a different between onepiece and fairy tail.

#3123 Codus N

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 05:58 AM

Really? The final good byes they had with their sons had no impact? That Natsu and Gray found out about their fathers after so many years whether they are already dead or not and that there was so much to be said yet they will never get a chance to has no impact? Especially for Natsu who was looking for Igneel all this time? Okay what ever you say. I suppose then, that Ace's death had no meaning too either, despite the fact that He's is practically the most important person in luffy's life. Sure he may have had WAY more development and back story than Igneel and Silver, but that doesn't change how much he means to Luffy and that Luffy felt utterlly powerless to save him is where the emotions  hit the breaking point. Well, same here.
 
Utear having her redemption and then having her come back cheapens the manga as a whole? Right. And yet One Piece villains are redeemed all the time and don't have to die for it, yet I don't hear you complaining about that. Is there a difference? Also are you saying then that you have problems with Sabo being alive then cause his death is supposed to impact Luffy and Ace?
 
Side characters get killed all the time you just don't see on panel because they are side characters. plus It's the Fairy Tail guild. of Course it's member's wouldn't die. You say that you'd want one of the Straw hats Killed for the sake of "drama"? The only difference here is that Fairy Tail is a massive guild of 100+ members. Also the impact of the fights is lessened because there is no fear of death? Right. Again. So I suppose that you must have this problem with One Piece's fights too because nobody actually dies either, yet again I don't hear you complaining about that. And if you say deaths do happen in One Piece then they also happen in Fairy Tail, It just doesn't happen to characters the story isn't focused on.
 
Well if the relationships between characters are so important to the story, then they don't have to be broken or tragic to be appealing, do they? Couldn't the reason that such characters are alive is so that they cans CONTINUE the bonds that they developed? A bond can be shown as everlasting and deep without the need for it to be ripped apart cant't it? Well that's just my opinion on it at the very least.
 
Now I don't mean Offence but the thing is For all this criticism you give Fairy Tail, I see similar circumstances in One Piece, but I don't hear a peep from you regarding it, or at least to my knowledge. and yet even if it appears the same to me I do not judge the ideas and in fact enjoy them immensely, So I don't see any reason on why it must be done to Fairy Tail. Sure I may have problems with the writing at times but I just voice my opinion on it and doesn't think that it's "ruining the series" That is just me though.


I think it's more of the way Ultear went out during the GMG arc. From a narrative sense, it felt like her story was finally done. She had been dealing with her regrets and sins for a long time and had been trying to find a way she could ultimately atone for everything. Hell, she was pretty much suicidal the whole time. While she didn't end up dying, her lifespan was so greatly reduced. That gave her a bit of time to think. She eventually realized that even her insignificant life is precious. She finally realized just how much she'd done for the world. That her life weighed equal to so many others' lives.

Now an old woman, she was finally relieved that she was able to do some good, and that she can live out the rest of her short life in and without regrets. At least that's how the narrative sense went, anyways. Unless Mashima has a good explanation later, I'm not buying it. One possibility I can think of is CS somehow getting ahold of knowledge of the "Law of Retrogression" that Doriate used.

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#3124 AHK

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 02:38 PM

Really? The final good byes they had with their sons had no impact? That Natsu and Gray found out about their fathers after so many years whether they are already dead or not and that there was so much to be said yet they will never get a chance to has no impact? Especially for Natsu who was looking for Igneel all this time? Okay what ever you say. I suppose then, that Ace's death had no meaning too either, despite the fact that He's is practically the most important person in luffy's life. Sure he may have had WAY more development and back story than Igneel and Silver, but that doesn't change how much he means to Luffy and that Luffy felt utterlly powerless to save him is where the emotions  hit the breaking point. Well, same here.
 
Utear having her redemption and then having her come back cheapens the manga as a whole? Right. And yet One Piece villains are redeemed all the time and don't have to die for it, yet I don't hear you complaining about that. Is there a difference? Also are you saying then that you have problems with Sabo being alive then cause his death is supposed to impact Luffy and Ace?
 
Side characters get killed all the time you just don't see on panel because they are side characters. plus It's the Fairy Tail guild. of Course it's member's wouldn't die. You say that you'd want one of the Straw hats Killed for the sake of "drama"? The only difference here is that Fairy Tail is a massive guild of 100+ members. Also the impact of the fights is lessened because there is no fear of death? Right. Again. So I suppose that you must have this problem with One Piece's fights too because nobody actually dies either, yet again I don't hear you complaining about that. And if you say deaths do happen in One Piece then they also happen in Fairy Tail, It just doesn't happen to characters the story isn't focused on.
 
Well if the relationships between characters are so important to the story, then they don't have to be broken or tragic to be appealing, do they? Couldn't the reason that such characters are alive is so that they cans CONTINUE the bonds that they developed? A bond can be shown as everlasting and deep without the need for it to be ripped apart cant't it? Well that's just my opinion on it at the very least.
 
Now I don't mean Offence but the thing is For all this criticism you give Fairy Tail, I see similar circumstances in One Piece, but I don't hear a peep from you regarding it, or at least to my knowledge. and yet even if it appears the same to me I do not judge the ideas and in fact enjoy them immensely, So I don't see any reason on why it must be done to Fairy Tail. Sure I may have problems with the writing at times but I just voice my opinion on it and doesn't think that it's "ruining the series" That is just me though.

Just saying, OP villains almost never get redeemed. Don't know where you got that from tbh.

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#3125 Phantom_999

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 03:26 PM

@phantom
Author is one of the thing that make a different between onepiece and fairy tail.

 

Yes I know Oda is a great writer, but I'm not questioning that. I'm not even comparing writing quality between One Piece and Fairy Tail. I'm basically saying that  there are similar elements in that deaths don't occur to characters that that receive focus or have importance to the story Etc. So I don't see the problem  here in Fairy Tail if it's no such big deal in One Piece. The execution maybe, not the idea in itself. for instance In One Piece again, are the fights spectacular and intense? Of course! Does anyone get killed? NOPE, at least not on panel. So what is this argument that no deaths don't make Fairy Tail fights fun and exciting? :mellow:

 

Just saying, OP villains almost never get redeemed. Don't know where you got that from tbh.

 

Okay, I worded that wrong. Let me put it this way then. Point is, One Piece villains  are not killed off even if they are irredeemable. Usually. And if they are supposed to be redeemed it does not occur with their deaths as Oda has stated it is a far more fitting punishment for them to live and see their ambitions crumble and whatever. Does a villain need to die to get what they deserve? Does a villain have to die to be redeemed? If One Piece can do it I don't see the problem with it in Fairy Tail either, but again it may just be the execution.

 

 

I think it's more of the way Ultear went out during the GMG arc. From a narrative sense, it felt like her story was finally done. She had been dealing with her regrets and sins for a long time and had been trying to find a way she could ultimately atone for everything. Hell, she was pretty much suicidal the whole time. While she didn't end up dying, her lifespan was so greatly reduced. That gave her a bit of time to think. She eventually realized that even her insignificant life is precious. She finally realized just how much she'd done for the world. That her life weighed equal to so many others' lives.

Now an old woman, she was finally relieved that she was able to do some good, and that she can live out the rest of her short life in and without regrets. At least that's how the narrative sense went, anyways. Unless Mashima has a good explanation later, I'm not buying it. One possibility I can think of is CS somehow getting ahold of knowledge of the "Law of Retrogression" that Doriate used.

 

Maybe so, I don't deny that. However also from A narrative point, Just cause A character's story is over, doesn't mean that that it can't continue. You see it in things Outside of Fairy Tail. Dragon ball ended at a good point before Becoming Dragon Ball Z, and then moving on to Dragon Ball Super. The Matrix didn't need the second and third films but there they are. And most infamously Naruto was supposed to have ended, but there is a a new Burrito manga coming out.  (Yaaaay *sarcastically*) Yes I know some of (*cough* Naruto Particularly *cough*) those Examples are considered Abyssmal continuations and are better left off where the percieved ending is but that is the point. Just because it is all but stated to be over doesn't mean that it wouldn't continue. It's all up to the writer. Sure Bringing Ultear back maybe a terrible plot excuse but as you said let's wait and see where this is going. And just because It may be poor writing doesn't mean it's ruined the series wouldn't you agree? And if Ultear learned the meaning of life and that even someone as sinful as her is a valuable thing then wouldn't it seem counter productive to die JUST as she started to learn that? At least if she IS coming back? the meaning behind resolution doesn't actually have to lose it's meaning just because she is young and not knocking at death's door anymore. The only way the lesson loses it's meaning is if she reverts back to the character that she was before the realization. It all depends on how things play out from now on yes? 


Edited by Phantom_999, 17 March 2016 - 02:39 PM.

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#3126 Codus N

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 04:27 PM

There's basically two ways to see Ultear's "death" right now. One is a character finally finding some peace in herself and that she can live out the rest of her life without regrets and die peacefully. The other is her "death" being counterproductive with her character development, as you say. I lean towards the former.

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#3127 Phantom_999

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 07:46 PM

I see. Well that's fine then :smile: But let's just see how it plays out.


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#3128 Codus N

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 11:58 AM

Chapter's out on MS.

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#3129 Phantom_999

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 01:19 PM

Yup False Alarm. It's good because it's consistent with the writing so I think that is a great development, though I wouldn't have minded at all if Ultear did fully return because I like her character. But ultimately it's just as everyone here has said, her redemption is complete at the Grand Magic Games arc so It would be a poor excuse overall just to bring her back for whatever reason. Well I guess We're all still Scarred by the worst manga in history, as well as one of the most stupid pieces of literature ever. It happened with Said Series, and well we begin to distrust the judgment of other Mangaka I suppose. Well anyway my being merely open minded to the idea aside Ultear not truly returning to the series and just having her consciousness exist only in the fabric of time is the most optimal development for the story with out betraying what was already established as as a fan of the series and writing in General I'm really happy. :smile:

 

Now I have argued for her return but again it's mostly because I am only being open minded to the idea, not that I doubt that it is poor writing. But let's not kid ourselves. Fairy Tail is FAR from being the only series to ever bring characters back even though their story is supposed to be over and character developments are properly resolved. I'm just saying don't just jump the gun only because of one thing    


Edited by Phantom_999, 17 March 2016 - 02:40 PM.

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#3130 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 01:55 PM

I feel like a straight man when we got the explanation and I can buy it (convenient but could have been worse, could have gone with "She's Ultear!") only to get a new one Third Origin and just go "Oi!!! WHY CREATE MORE kitten!!!"

But I digress.

#3131 Phantom_999

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 03:15 PM

I kind of wish that third origin didn't come up because well after that convenient plot coupon one of 2 things is gonna happen and well either way would be digging the story into the ground. 1) Wendy and Cheria use it and lose their magic. Mashima goes through with it, but fans rage that that they will get no more of the action and want to see more fights with them. Or 2) they use it, lose their magic, but then get it back with another convenient plot coupon and fans rage how it makes no sense and defeats the purpose of the the desperation and of the situation and why would it have such a consequence in the first place if it''s not permanent. Well In any case I wished at least they did not have that if you use this power you become powerless. I've seen that already a couple of times with characters and well frankly I've no interest in them without their powers because well the premise is not a slice of life, or manga of mundane activities so yeah.  Gon and Ichigo if you're curious, although Gon's case is consistent with the themes and premise of Nen 


Edited by Phantom_999, 08 March 2016 - 04:37 PM.

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#3132 LuckyChi7

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 03:51 PM

Alrighty it's Live reaction time: 

 


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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#3133 LuckyChi7

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 11:57 PM

So  knowing how much time passes by with Fairy tail as far as story content goes,  what do you guys believe will be the crazy thing that'll occur in Chapter 500?   

 

 

The reason why I bring this up is because Hiro always does something crazy when it comes to the 100th chapter for example:

 

Chapter 100:  First time we hear and see Igneel talking with Grandeeny. 

 

Chapter 200: First appearance of Zeref and his possible connection with Natsu. 

 

Chapter 300:  We find out that Acnologia was human and became a dragon after bathing in the dragon's blood. 

 

Chapter 400:  Igneel was revealed to be sealed within Natsu and finally appears before him.

 

 

So seeing how we're getting close 25 chapters to be exact what do you think will happen?  One theory I've been hearing is that Chapter 500 could be the final chapter of Fairy Tail, but I feel like that's a little too soon,  like I said before we usually get alot of progression in the manga so there's that, idk... 


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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#3134 rocci

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 12:10 AM

Nalu canon? :P

I think PU for natsu or revelation of Lucy or fairytail true power.

#3135 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 02 March 2016 - 01:59 AM

Acnologia killing someone unexpected?

His origin?

END arrives?

Fairy Heart in use?


I don't know.

#3136 LuckyChi7

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 11:07 PM

Volume 54's Cover came out: 

 

ob_43fe25_51t0xf2nxyl.jpg

 

 

I'm not really sure if I can say it's my favorite cover, but i do like Natsu and Igneel surrounding the bandages around his right arm. 


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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#3137 Phantom_999

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 04:30 PM

So? Anyone read the New Chapter?

 

[post='http://www.mangainn....ail-chapter-476'][/post]


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#3138 LuckyChi7

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 02:47 PM

New chapter is out: http://www.mangapand.../fairy-tail/477

 

 

My live reaction/review: https://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U


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THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#3139 Phantom_999

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 10:21 PM

Well not disappointed, BUT I kind of  wish Lucy would fight on her own so to show case how strong she's gotten. Well not that she hasn't but I'd like to see more. :smile:


Edited by Phantom_999, 16 March 2016 - 10:32 PM.

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#3140 Nami

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 09:34 AM

Well not disappointed , BUT I kind of  wish Lucy would fight on her own so to show case how strong she's gotten. Well not that she hasn't but I'd like to see more. :smile:

 

Agreed. As much as it makes my shipper's heart flutter seeing Natsu saving her, I would've liked to see her fight on her own more. She barely landed one hit, I know she could do much more. Maybe we'll see a NaLu tag team in this fight again, that would be cool.

 

On a side note, how many times have we seen Natsu and Lucy naked around each other so far? It's really happening for the dumbest of reasons, what's the point anymore?






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