4036 replies to this topic

[六道仙人]

 

So daisuki when used with a person is always romantic ? I thought you could use it with your friend or someone of your family.

not always necessarily... it could be used even for platonic love... but i think that it's very rare...

[only Naruto]

But.....But ....That was not their original trans for 631 it seems changed this is like the MP one  and seriously Viz blew it up since forever since the Kushina thing and now I find out that their translation has been corrected  somehow ?  WTF!  But I rather trust our own translators that are unbiased and almost always correct then relay on Viz . 

i totally trust our friends translation . specially when the raw is out . .  and if viz knew there mistakes and corrected them .i think its ok to rely on them too. 

 

[Anthony]

I think its safe to say the entire SasuSaku fandom has a genjutsu of some kind on them, too.

Classic.

[HauntedCake]

 Late for the party. how did the raws turn out?

[BakeNeko-Chan]

This thread moves too fast. One hundred and fifty-six pages already, at this rate it'll easily pass two hundred before the next chapter.

 

I think there's a little too much overanalyzing going on. KnS said something some pages back about Kishimoto's writing being intended to be looked at as more of a big picture than something that should be picked apart and the pieces carefully examined (sorry, I'm paraphrasing. She said it much better), and I agree. People are looking too deeply into some things and making mountains out of molehills, and twisting things into something worse than they actually are. Honestly, it makes me a little dizzy looking at some of the posts here.

 

I get that people are upset and that this chapter was a curve ball for what most were expecting, but it doesn't do any good to get too work up over it. It's okay to express disappointment and criticism, but after that's done just take a deep breath and find something to take your mind off it for a while. That's what I learned to do when this manga just seemed to keep handing me frustration after frustration.

 

This thread is....   Some are overly-negative, some are overly-positive... We need some neutrals for better balance

 

I feel that I'm pretty neutral, where this chapter is concerned at least. It hasn't really affected me or my perspective of things the way it seems to have affected others, haven't really thought about it much actually. I'm busy working on my fic for the H&E Anniversary contest and reading Fullmetal Alchemist and Chrno Crusade, so I'm good. 

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 29 September 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[Hiyuusha]

question now though. If Sakura used her Tsunade healing, could she have survived a Chidori to the chest?

[machi]

"You really do make me sick." That sounds even more harsh.

i think they just tried to stay consistent tho (since the same wording was used in 181)

Edited by machi, 29 September 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[Syn11]

question now though. If Sakura used her Tsunade healing, could she have survived a Chidori to the chest?

If he gets her heart the answer is negative. If he pierces only her lung... well, probably she'll be able to survive.

Heart and brain - if one wants to certainly kill, he aims at these organs.

Edited by Syn11, 29 September 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[Swagkura]

No! he's still an failure of a Sensei to Naruto and Sakura . And his wordings are kitten in here with that aishteru don't trust him at all   sorry .

Heh, he's still one of my faves, so

[only Naruto]

hmm how do we measure their translations' accuracy anyway? sometimes everyone is happy with them sometimes not

first on our friends translation . and then we have also  mp and ms    we can use logic and what the story told us till now to figure which one is more accurate .. . at least  i think thats how . .

 

[Gojira]

 

I understand I'm not a fan of Viz most of the time but they are a company, which makes them professionals in the eyes of a lot of people.

Charlie Sheen is a high paid actor so he's seen as a professional to alot of people, then 2011 came around.

 

What people think=what reality is

 

People also think Sakrua's confession to Naruto was fake even after Kishi went out of his way saying that she was honest and wasn't using Naruto's feelings for her.

[Gojira]

 

They say this because they were proved wrong a lot of times.

 

"のような" = Like

Used in a general term to compare two simulates.

の・ようなもの No Yōna Mono = Something like it

 

"変な女" = Weird

Fan translation:

 

VIZ:

 

 

They even sort of corrected that in the anime.

 

 

If he gets her heart the answer is negative. If he pierces only her lung... well, probably she'll be able to survive.

Heart and brain - if one wants to certainly kill, he aims at these organs.

I wouldn't trust Kishi too much with the human anatomy.

 

He also thinks the lungs are up close to the colar bones and shoulders and that Sakura can grab Naruto's heart without punching through his ribs and stabbing through his other vital organs

Edited by Pepsi, 29 September 2014 - 06:12 PM.

[machi]

 

first on our friends translation . and then we have also  mp and ms    we can use logic and what the story told us till now to figure which one is more accurate .. . at least  i think thats how . .

 

 

 so comparing version and then using subjective judgement.....  that makes sense!

[Nic]

the latest translations are more consistent with what Kakashi states in chapter 675 and makes the entire thing more logical given context.  

It's funny these latest translations also made Kakashi go from looking utterly pathetic into normal again. 

[六道仙人]

in fact... viz not always is reliable.

[Gojira]

in fact... viz not always is reliable.

Don't say that to anyone in NF....they will seriously lose it.

[Swagkura]

in fact... viz not always is reliable.

But their reliable this time, right? Or could they be wrong too?

[luffyq1]

i think they just tried to stay consistent tho (since the same wording was used in 181)

I thought he said she was annoying in 181, not that he's sick of her.

[Fyuria'sLeo]

Charlie Sheen is a high paid actor so he's seen as a professional to alot of people, then 2011 came around.

 

What people think=what reality is

 

People also think Sakrua's confession to Naruto was fake even after Kishi went out of his way saying that she was honest and wasn't using Naruto's feelings for her.

 

2011 came around and now he's just as popular.

 

Besides Im talking Companies not actors.

 

Sakura's confession is a whole different story, I believe she lied in a few parts and was honest in others.

[Atheck]

You are of the opinion that ninjas should only stick with logic. I disagree. They are allowed to get emotional, they are allowed to like one person more than they like everyone else.  They are allowed to decide what they do with their lives.

Not when the actions that are born from their emotions are affecting the well-being of other people. When it endangers the the stability of an civilisation that's already close to the breaking point from previous conflicts, and when it's making them disregard the fact that other people still depend on him for the reasons that I have already gone over.
 

Shinobis are not robots, they are humans too. 
 
You are not considering how emotional that particular scene was. Why is it wrong if Gai decides to pledge his life to make his student feel better and helped him to get stronger? 


You can clearly see just how much Gai meant to Lee in this episode. You can see how important those words were for Lee.

To be honest, I really don't care if the reasoning for Guy opting to kill himself was inspired more by Lee's nindo or because his guilt trip caused him to magnify his feeling of responsibility a hundred fold. As I've already said, this becomes a conundrum that impacts not only Guy when he has obligations to other people, when he's needed to be there for others.

An example of a man who died by committing suicide because he couldn't overcome his own grief is Sakumo. The loss of his wife combined with the disparagement he received from choosing his teammates' lives over the success of a mission drove him to kill himself. His reasons for wanting to die to end the emotional torment and be with his wife might be understandable, maybe even sympathetic, but just imagine the impact such an experience must have had on his son, who was still a child, who needed a parental figure to love and raise him. The shock-waves of his father's suicide were felt long and hard enough that it hardened Kakashi's view on life. It made him regard the flawed system that compelled Sakumo to kill himself as his code of ethics, the system that looks down on prioritising the survival of the soldiers over the success of the mission.

I could sympathise with Sakumo over the anguish and confusion he must have felt up until the moment he died, but I'm also not going to pretend that his actions weren't selfishly putting himself over the well-being of a son that needed him after losing his mother.

Guy's connection to the rest of his village and his squad may not be as strong as the bond he shares with Lee. However, I'm not going to pretend that Guy's decision didn't have a prejudiced leaning.
 

You keep saying logic, logic, think about how the others are affected etc but is that thinking the most accurate?

 
Reasoning mixed with the emotional responces of the people that know and care for Guy besides Lee. That includes his team which will still be around, leaderless, and very likely hurting because half of their members are now dead.
 

I will give you an incident similar to this. Just like Lee was the most important person to Gai, The Leaf village was of the utmost importance to Sarutobi.  What did Hiruzen do at the end? He decided to and actually did sacrifice his life to protect the Leaf Village.

Now, can I use this 'logical' way of thinking and criticize Sarutobi for what he did? Can I say it was foolish of Sarutobi to not consider that his family and Konohamuru would be left devastated by his death? Can I say it was foolish of Sarutobi to not realize that the Leaf would be left leaderless and possibly in a state of panic and power-struggle?

The problem with this logic is that there was no other recourse for Hiruzen, given the circumstances. He was trapped in an inescapable barrier with Orochimaru. Two of his opponents were the previous Hokage resurrected as immortal, regenerating zombies who could only be defeated if their souls were removed. Judging by his actions, he was likely going to engage Orochimaru with a different attack strategy before Edo Tensei was introduced into the picture.

Hiruzen was fighting a losing battle. By the time he activated Shiki Fujin, they were torturing him just for laughs in a genjutsu. If there was a less costly method to disable the Edo Tensei then I'm confident he would have used it.

It's ironic that you bring up Hiruzen since his final moments consisted of remembering the people that he hoped would persevere through his sacrifice to thwart a great menace, not committing suicide in an isolated part of the village for the emotional satisfaction of a single person.
 

Can I apply this same logic to Minato too? Can I say he was inconsiderate of his son when he decided to sacrifice his life to protect the village? Can I call Minato a terrible father for letting his son grow up as an orphan?

 

It was inconsiderate. Kishi addressed this when Naruto first learned that Minato was his father.

If Minato tethers it to Naruto then he's basically condemned him to a life wrought with hatred and misery, but if they destroy it then it would simply rematerialise itself at a later point. The village's leverage against the other great nations is lost and the likelihood of an invasion is increased, which would have undoubtedly cost thousands of more lives. Minato did what he thought was best for the village, at the expense of his son's happiness. There was no easy choice to make in that scenario.
 

Logic is not always the right way of thinking. Logic can contradict itself sometimes. One must consider the emotional aspects too.

Logic, emotions, insensitive behaviour, consideration for Lee's feelings... No matter what, someone loses. Guy's potential actions would have cost everyone something in some way.
 

I am talking about the plot, what happened in the story. You are talking about an 'what if' scenario and this is just a fanfiction.

 
Whether or not he actually committed suicide purely for Lee's benefit in the manga is not the point. Thanks to hindsight, we know that it wasn't necessary for him to keep his word since Lee survived the operation. What I'm attempting to drive through is the fact that he consciously decided upon killing himself, in light of every practical and emotional reason that he would have not to. You might have a different opinion, but I believe that intent and mindset can be equally as important as the action itself.
 

Again, I repeat- Sakura was supposed to be weak and she was supposed to feel useless.

Again, this is the author's intent to keep his characters restricted until a specific time where they can be properly built. Although, another possible theory for Sakura's character stagnating is that Kishi, in all of his effort to build upon the conflict between Naruto and Sasuke, has neglected to find a purpose for her in the plot outside of specific intervals. It's like that in Part 2, how should Part 1 be any different?
 

At that point, she was someone who was more interested in love-life rather than being a good Kunoichi. This is the plot.

True, she did seem to prioritise her romantic attractions above reinforcing everyone on the team for the first two arcs. But I would argue that a shift in priorities started to emerge in the Forest of Death when she protected her teammates from the Sound nin and battled Ino with all of her strength in order to prove how she had changed from a hapless, fearful child to a capable kunoichi.

The lack of any notable involvement in the events of the later arcs can be linked to factors outside of her control. Sakura had failed to progress to the finals of the Chunin Exams - as you said - so the most she could do was spectate along with the other Rookies who lost their preliminary matches. Kishi made some effort to use Sakura in the Konoha Invasion arc by making her one of only a few who could dispel Kabuto's genjutsu and by helping to redirect Gaara's attack from Sasuke (for what that was worth). The search for Tsunade had no relevance to Sakura except for most of her teammates being incapacitated by Itachi. Later on she shows up as the retrieval team is about to leave the village, but Shikamaru promptly negated any chance of Sakura playing an active role.

Those were hardly reasons that had anything to do with Sakura's love-life. Again, I think her lack of presence has to do with Kishi's inability to provider her with consistent active involvement in each of the arcs.
 

What might have happened if Sakura had more interest in being a better ninja,

Where was it implied in the manga that she had a lack of drive in bettering herself? Some level of effort is being exerted if her overall stats are consistently rivaling Naruto's in both the 1st and 2nd Databooks.
 

But its a little bit obvious isn't it? Jiraiya suddenly shows up to train Naruto after the preliminary round of the Chuunin exams. And in the flashback, Jiraiya specifically asks Kakashi to focus on training Sasuke and to leave Naruto's training to him.

Mangas like Naruto are rife in fortunate coincidences and chance encounters.

Jiraiya's motive for returning to the village is to train his godson, yet it's Naruto who needs to seek him out and then bribe him with perverted ninjutsu when he's been unwilling to help up until that point. I'm almost inclined to believe that Kishi didn't have Jiraiya's prior interest in Naruto set in stone until the Search for Tsunade arc.