54216 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

A hot.......debate?

Eh?

 

Maybe I am wrong, i think the bromance is destroying NS.

Ah I see.

 

So, Labor Day. End of summer to many. Funny, because if I was going back to school, I would be like "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" but since I work, yeah, no difference. What I see is the biggest move of my life is about to unfold. The final exam, the man with responsibility with credit card, etc. So yeah, September is going to be one eventful month for me. Plus, the start of Fall. Boy, I hope it's not like the same as the beginning of the year. If you follow the news, you would know that northeast got snow constantly, which shouldn't happen like that for NYC. So yeah, big month to begin.

[Khaleesi]

Oh.
*listens*
Haha, I don't even...know how to finish this sentence. That was different lol

 

Hehe

 

I'm sorry if I disappointed you. This is the NS debate thread, NOT, the NS appreciation thread. And as such, I feel free to write down my opinion, regardless of it being optimistic or pessimistic. I replied to xxRomanceGirlxx because I respect her opinion and wanted to know what she thinks in return. Whether people will create a sh*tstorm from that isn't really my concern as long as I'm not doing anything against the rules.
 As I said, SS is a hundred times worse. But just because one is terrible it doesn't make the other less terrible one look automatically fabulous.
Sakura is NOT specially important to Naruto. She's no more different than his other comrades. The only person that has a high up place in Naruto's heart is Sasuke, and Sasuke only and that stays forever. If Sakura DID succeed in killing Sasuke, Naruto's disappointment will be a lot more than that of if it was the other way around. I feel no appeal to such a pairing where the girl is just there for the sake of being there, watching the bromance from the sidelines AND to be a living proof of how strong the bond of bromance is by not being able to get involved in her own team. Sakura deserves a lot better treatment than being used as a crutch to emphasize the homosocial bond.

As for why NS is degrading Sakura? Sakura shouldn't have to spend her efforts and life cheering Naruto from the background. NS used to be a good influence to her in part one. But those times are over. Since after the Sasori fight, Sakura is only his cheerleader. It would have been a LOT MORE BETTER if she would have focused on her own life, her own career, instead of just calling out "Naruto" after every 15 or so chapters. You can count how many Sakura panels there are, and calculate the ratio of her just calling out Naruto's name opposed to doing something 'heroine' like. (Isn't that a boring heroine?) Especially more so when she is not half as important to the guy compared to the' supposed 'brother' who is willing to kill him.

To make it easy I'll write it more simply below.

Naruto's heart: Sasuke>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Iruka>>Sakura=Kakashi>Gaara>>Rookies

I'm not trying to start a fight. I would love it if people will convince me otherwise.

  I knew you'd understand brother. As long as Sasuke stays Naruto's waifu, all is okay ;)

 

When you said it was degrating for Sakura i couldn't think in one thing but if is this it makes more sense.  I agree at 70%

It's damn true, this bromance ruins EVERYTHING. Like, i know how Naruto's character works, and he's supossed to never give up. But this is insane. He's LITERALLY ready for commiting suicide. His bromance is sick and now the Indra and Asura kitten that support it. But if you think about it, It's not only because is Sasuke, but his character. Do you remember when he went to rescue Gaara? How mad he was? Anything could be like their bromance if it had +5 years of building it up. He's obsessed. But their rivality was a plus and, i have  to repeat, that Indra and Asura kitten.

I'm mad to about it. There are a multiple persons out there that are important to him. But that's why he can't let one of them go...he has faith on them. He even forgive the person who killed his damn sensei, and he was like a father for him, eh. And if you look at the manga closer, you would see that Sasuke  has a heart (?) that it's not only to his brother. But his priorities and his obsessions take everything up. He's just like Naruto. He's ready to sacrifice important things for him, if is for something "more important". So, both of them are wrong. I think that one of the things i want for NS becomimg canon is the final development for Naruto and Sasuke relationship, and the characters themselves. Remember when Naruto was too egocentric and thought he could do anything by himself? I don't remember who call out on his kitten. But now he's like "i can do it if i have everyone with me!". This is like that time Kakashi told Sakura "You were worried for Sasuke who was far from you and you didn't notice Naruto who was more close to you." or something like that. 

Sakura is not his chearleader. What it's wrong in trusting someone? or wanting to rely on someone? Sakura is strong. But she wants someone to rely on. I'm not like that, maybe you either, but that's how Sakura is and it's nothing wrong about it. There is nothing wrong in wanting someone to rescue you when you don't feel yourself enough. There is nothing wrong in wanting to someone telling you everything is gonna be okay. After it, Sakura always focus herself in what she can do. Naruto gives her hope. Naruto make her feel secure and stronger. She kinda needs to be on the background. You know, she's a med.ninj. They are Heaven & Earth, they complement each other. Naruto needs her on his back and she needs him on her back. There is nothing wrong in needing someone. He's the power, she's the brain;he's recklessness, she's wisdom. He's good for her and Naruto would never find balance without her. He's like an animal. His intentions are pure but they are instinctive.    Humans are like animals but with conscience. He's clearly not full aware of what it's around him. When he focuses in something, he can't see anything else. That's why he needs Sakura. 

Right now, everyone is left behind for Sasuke. I need to believe Kishi is going to do something about it. He doesn't need to "gave up" about him, so it won't damage the character. 

Edited by theunburnt, 01 September 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[AHK]

I don't think that NS is degrading to Sakura in the least, I think it's the exact opposite. Sakura isn't some cheerleader for Naruto, Maruto makes her stronger. Her growth in the series stems from two people and two people only: Naruto and Tsunade. Their relationship is complex yes, but in no way is it degrading to Sakura, especially when you consider just how much pain Naruto is willing to go through for her. Also, the elevation of Sasuke to Naruto only came after his understanding of him, so, in essence, after Jiraiya died. It was only after Jiraiya died that he put saving Sasuke for Sasuke's sake on the same level saving him for Sakura.

To me, much of Naruto's care for Sasuke comes from team 7. It's not that Naruto cares about Sasuke over everything per say, it's that he cares about T7 over everything, which in turn elevates Sasuke. I'll admit though, Naruto's and Sasuke's "bond" is the worst written thing I think I have ever seen. It's so damn annoying listening to Sasuke this and Sasuke that, even if I believe the majority of the series he was trying to save Sasuke for Sakura.

[ramenanmitsu]

Sakura is not his chearleader. What it's wrong in trusting someone? or wanting to rely on someone? Sakura is strong. But she wants someone to rely on. I'm not like that, maybe you either, but that's how Sakura is and it's nothing wrong about it. There is nothing wrong in wanting someone to rescue you when you don't feel yourself enough.

So you're saying that there is nothing wrong in being a damsel in distress? That wasn't my point but I'll just say this. I have a lot more higher expectations for Sakura. You seem to be okay even if she's as useless as Moegi. I'm not. So, I think our opinions will never match. I'm not attacking you, I'm sincerely saying that we think and expect things differently.

You might as well replace Hinata or Inari in that above paragraph and it'll fit better.

There is nothing wrong in wanting to someone telling you everything is gonna be okay. After it, Sakura always focus herself in what she can do. Naruto gives her hope. Naruto make her feel secure and stronger. She kinda needs to be on the background. You know, she's a med.ninj. They are Heaven & Earth, they complement each other. Naruto needs her on his back and she needs him on her back. There is nothing wrong in needing someone. He's the power, she's the brain;he's recklessness, she's wisdom. He's good for her and Naruto would never find a balance without her. He's like an animal. His intentions are pure but they are instinctive.    Humans are like animals but with conscience. He's clearly not full aware of what it's around him. When he focuses in something, he can't see anything else. That's why he needs Sakura. 
Right now, everyone is left behind for Sasuke. I need to believe Kishi is going to do something about it. He doesn't need to "gave up" about him, so it won't damage the character.

You are explaining how NS works because they compliment each other. I recommend you to read the recent chapters because Kishi has made it clear that Heaven & Earth = Naruto & Sasuke, and the one person Kishi wants to compliment Naruto is Sasuke. NOT Sakura.

@Pepsi
Oh you're going to space? Bye Pepsi. Miss you~ Have a great journey!

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 01 September 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Gojira]

Hence why I've lost interest for NS. For a person like me, SS and NS are BOTH heroine degrading pairings. It's just that SS is a hundred times worse. You can call SS worse, but you can't call them totally different.

That's my opinion anyways. And I know I might have dropped a sh*tstorm so I'll hide in some underground shelter.

[Change]

Hate really does wonders to people huh 

[Gojira]

And because I got stuck on a pokemon trend

spoiler title

Pokemon/King of the Hill Crossover make it happen  

Edited by Pepsi, 01 September 2014 - 03:56 PM.

[FireFox]

Have you ever respected the Sasuke fans in here? No, you never did. And as I said again, respecting the pairing doesn't mean faking myself and pretending that NS is a wonderful pairing when I don't think so. I already wrote my purpose so I don't wish to repeat it again. As I said this isn't an appreciation thread, this is the DEBATE thread.
After the Naruto vs Sasuke battle in the hospital roof, after the Kage Summit, after the rookie's meeting. But that's just the icing on the cake. Her character being his cheerleader is downright humiliating when she deserves so much better. Of course it's not on the same level as how NH is degrading Hinata's character, if I may add.
Lots of your opinion regarding Sasuke comes from pure hate of the character itself. I wouldn't want to hear that sentence from you of all people.
No, I don't. Or did you meant to say one of the MANY? Then I do, she must be ranked somewhere within the top ten.
  Then I guess it's okay for you if Naruto two-times Sakura with Hinata because every pairing stands on it's own right? Or I guess you're alright with Sakura dating both Naruto and Sasuke in the end because each pairing stands on it's own and even if SasuSaku happens I shouldn't base my opinion of NS on it since they're separated.

 "Not praising NS" does not equate to "Anti-NS". Remember that equation next time. I was a member here from 2011, and I used to debate FOR the NS pairing more than probably you. If a person whose been a long fan of NS sees a problem with it, you might want to reconsider that there MIGHT be a problem with the pairing rather than instantly judging the long fan as an anti-NS. Not to mention, many other fans in this site have wrote similar concerns and thoughts regarding the pairing, are you going to judge them too?

Liker I said people come in here to escape from the "NS hate" that is here in the west not  and its sad that we can even do that in here when NS is looked upon even in here the NS site how ironic isn't it  And Wow this is just splendid   you didn't prized NS you just put it on the same level as SS and called it a piece of kitten because you based it on NaruSasu not on its own  nope that certainly not Anti if I haven't seen comments like that from the ANS people I might have believed you but I've seen this equation to much   . NS would be degrading is Naruto made Sakura feel like kitten if he didn't make her happy if he didn't inspire her and didn't support her not what you re implying .

 

When I say its stand on its own I mean by the interactions they have and the feelings the convey don't twist my meaning  and the fact that you even compare Hinata to Sakura in importance to Naruto is disgrace . And please he singled her once the same as Hinata ? Now your disdain is really showing .

 

My hate on Sasuke is bc of his own character and how its written not bc of someone else just like I hate NaruSasu on his own merits bc of how bad is written and how it destroys both of the characters  . You say Sakura is just a cheerleader but ignoring how many times has Naruto motivated her and inspired her  and how he makes her feel how much confidence she gains from him I don't see anything wrong in this  what is so wrong in supporting someone you love ? Besides that its not what Sakura has been doing the whole time this really biased from you .

 

 

But here is what I don't understand why do you guys force yourself to ship NS if you don't enjoy the paring anymore  ? Why trying so hard ruin the fun in here that we have with NS for the ones who enjoy it . The fact that you have debated long more then me for NS "in here" doesn't make you any special  nor does it means that I think NS doesn't have its flaws that I don't see it but they are certainly not what you are saying . What you said as flaw was that  NaruSasu has more focus so NS is kitten and degrading as SS their relationship is a horrible bc the focus is smaller then N/S .  When a relationship is judged by how they interact and the feelings they convey a relationship can have even the smallest of focus if written good it can be beautiful  . NS isn't perfect but it isn't like you are presenting it .

 

But nice job into turning this into the ANS thread  this has been happening here for a long time and this was just the icing of the cake really I think I'm done here  .

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 01 September 2014 - 04:00 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Let's not fight over this. Do we really want to prove who has the right prophecy ideal as in no one is really right?

[Change]

Let's not fight over this. Do we really want to prove who has the right prophecy ideal as in no one is really right?

It's a debate thread after all 

[ramenanmitsu]

Liker I said people come in here to escape from the "NS hate" that is here in the west not  and its sad that we can even do that in here when NS is looked upon even in here the NS site how ironic isn't it  And Wow this is just splendid   you didn't prized NS you just put it on the same level as SS and called it a piece of kitten because you based it on NaruSasu not on its own  nope that certainly not Anti if I haven't seen comments like that from the ANS people I might have believed you but I've seen this equation to much   . NS would be degrading is Naruto made Sakura feel like kitten if he didn't make her happy if he didn't inspire her and didn't support her not what you re implying .

Stop twisting my words for your own convenience. I said that SS is a hundred times worse. Where in the hell did you get the idea that I "put it on the same level as SS"? I've lost all hope to argue with you if you're going to twist what I'm saying just to force whatever opinion you have on me.

If your way of arguing is to twist my words into something they're not, and calling someone with a different opinion of yours an anti-NS, then good luck with that! I respected you and your opinion until that very last moment when you start to call me names just because I think differently.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 01 September 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It's a debate thread after all 

It's a debate that leads damages.

[Gojira]

It's a debate that leads damages.

Let me try to raise the mood a little bit.

 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Let me try to raise the mood a little bit.

 

Lol. New Pokemon (well mainly Black and White) sure got weirder.

[FireFox]

Stop twisting my words for your own convenience. I said that SS is a hundred times worse. Where in the hell did you get the idea that I "put it on the same level as SS"? I've lost all hope to argue with you if you're going to twist what I'm saying just to force whatever opinion you have on me.

If your way of arguing is to twist my words into something they're not, then good luck with that!

You are doing the same with me and using DB standards   saying "100 times worse" doesn't make your argument any better  and you said yourself that you don't like NS anymore so what opinion am I forcing it upon you ? But yes forget it Its not worth it anymore.

[Khaleesi]

So you're saying that there is nothing wrong in being a damsel in distress? That wasn't my point but I'll just say this. I have a lot more higher expectations for Sakura. You seem to be okay even if she's as useless as Moegi. I'm not. So, I think our opinions will never match.

You might as well replace Hinata or Inari in that above paragraph and it'll fit better.

No, i'm nt saying that there is nothing worng in being a damsel in distress. I'm saying that there's nothing wrong in wanting to relyin someone. It's not the same thing. There are REAL PEOPLE that needs support. Like i said, maybe that's not you or me, but a lot more of people. Personally if it were for me, i'll consider that weakness. But i learned to acept others' personalities. 

I agree that Sakura's character needs a better treatment, there is a lot of things that she still needs to improve and there are a lot of probabilities. But her med.ninj. character right now, is the pillar and it's needed. I think she can make things as her own. I don't want her to be saved neither. That's not what i'm saying. I'm saying that Naruto is her hope and what makes her stronger, he's a good influence for her. I'm saying that just like she's his pillar, he's her pillar and he's needed.

 

 

You are explaining how NS works because they compliment each other. I recommend you to read the recent chapters because Kishi has made it clear that Heaven & Earth = Naruto & Sasuke, and the one person Kishi wants to compliment Naruto is Sasuke. NOT Sakura.

 

Lmao, i disagree. I don't see it like that but i understand what you mean. Yes, they are the opposite. Yin and Yang. But at the same time they are pretty much the same, as i explained it. But their personalities are not complementary. Just like Hinata is the opposite from Naruto too, but they are not complementary either. Because "their differences" doesn't help Naruto or balance him. 

Imagine a situation when if Sasuke comes back to the village, and there is a problem that worries Naruto and Sasuke, wow, they would be powerful and sure, Sasuke is a planner. But i reall think them both could just explote because the are impatient and egocentric. They would compete, there is no one that can pacify each other. Like Fire and Wind. Wind makes the Fire stronger. "Intensify" the fire. 

 

Now, imagine another situation with Hinata. What do you think Hinata could do if Naruto was in rage or being irresponsible. I can say i lot of things right here, but i'm sure you can tell too. 

 

That's why Heaven & Earth is Naruto and Sakura, they are opposites, they are similar and they complement each other.

[ramenanmitsu]

You are doing the same with me and using DB standards   saying "100 times worse" doesn't make your argument any better  and you said yourself that you don't like NS anymore so what opinion am I forcing it upon you ? But yes forget it Its not worth it anymore.

If you're going to stop being emotional, then I'll also explain as rationally as possible. Fair deal enough? No twisting words, no mocking whatsoever, okay?

I said that I don't like NS. Then you say that I'm ANS. I said that just because I'm not NS doesn't mean I'm ANS. But then you ignored me and AGAIN called me ANS and I'm trying to make this an ANS thread. This is not debate. This is just name calling. I was explaining, so I expect you to say how you disagree in a similar manner instead of attacking my person. Understood?

If you disagree with me "let's agree to disagree" would have ended it in a peaceful manner. You shouldn't have name called or attacked my person if you felt like the debate wasn't going anywhere or I wasn't convinced.

Many members have voiced their discomfort for NS. Rational members convinced them with logic. Hence I quoted a rational person like xxRomanceGirlxx because she could reply to me in a rational manner. She could correct me if I'm wrong. You quoted me in the middle and went all emotional on me when I wasn't speaking to you. So please, either explain your thoughts without bringing my person in it, or just ignore my posts from now on.

Pepsi who used to have lots of doubts for NS were convinced and became optimistic again.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 01 September 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Change]

If you're going to stop being emotional, then I'll also explain as rationally as possible. Fair deal enough? No twisting words, no mocking whatsoever, okay?

I said that I don't like NS. Then you say that I'm ANS. I said that just because I'm not NS doesn't mean I'm ANS. But then you ignored me and AGAIN called me ANS and I'm trying to make this an ANS thread. This is not debate. This is just name calling. I was explaining, so I expect you to say how you disagree in a similar manner instead of attacking my person. Understood?

If you disagree with me "let's agree to disagree" would have ended it in a peaceful manner. You shouldn't have name called or attacked my person if you felt like the debate wasn't going anywhere or I wasn't convinced.

So you don't like any pairing than?(that's not canon and has the possibility of being canon)

[Khaleesi]

So you don't like any pairing than?(that's not canon and has the possibility of being canon)

SasuHina and GaaSaku i guess? but they are crack

[ramenanmitsu]

So you don't like any pairing than?(that's not canon and has the possibility of being canon)

Any canon pairings? ......Maybe Minato x Kushina? I can't think of any other pairing I like atm.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 01 September 2014 - 04:32 PM.