4869 replies to this topic

[RedDelicious]

Let's see...
Sakura's love for Sasuke will lead her to kill him.

Sakura wanted to demonstrate her love to Naruto by taking him back to the village with her.
And keeping him safe with her.

If someone wants to insist that Sakura loves Sasuke more than Naruto... eh, whatever... that's their opinion.
(With not as much support as the opposing viewpoint.)

Only one of those two relationships has any kind of a future.
Unless you count Sakura putting flowers on Sasuke's tombstone once a year a "relationship".
(Maybe it's a brother-sister relationship! )

[ciardha]

The face is not the part behind the ears. His face would he his cheeks, lips, nose, eyes, chin, etc, not his neck.

Froot, her fingers are at the back, as you can see here her palm is cupping his face- part of jawline through bottom ear, hands aren't just fingers...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/450/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/450/06/

So yes, she is cupping his face with her head right against the other side of his head, with her chin resting on his shoulder. No overplaying, that's exactly what is on the two big panels on those two pages.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah, her biggest growth.

That will so piss NH and SS so bad.

Agreed. Considering too that things have changed so much that they don't want to face it, like how Naruto seems hesitant to change due to the path he wishes to follow.

I also have found it a bit of a drag how the anime downplays on Naruto and Sakura such as Naruto being played as an idioot and Sakura at times as a Sasuke fangirl at times still, or more concerned with that.

Bryon

[Devil Keyz]

Froot, her fingers are at the back, as you can see here her palm is cupping his face- part of jawline through bottom ear, hands aren't just fingers...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/450/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/450/06/

So yes, she is cupping his face with her head right against the other side of his head, with her chin resting on his shoulder. No overplaying, that's exactly what is on the two big panels on those two pages.

Even Hinita Can see how nice they look together, thats why she is smiling at them

[ciardha]

I also have found it a bit of a drag how the anime downplays on Naruto and Sakura

Yeah, I was kind of disappointed with that filler bit where Naruto starts to make a move on Sakura and they had her go tsundere, clearly she wouldn't have from the flirtatious actions she's made toward Naruto since she first saw him after 2 1/2 years in the manga chapter 248. She was basically giving him the green light from that moment. As long as he didn't go for a breast or ass grab (or said something in too crude a fashion) it's pretty clear she would have reacted in some kind of non negative fashion. Even if was just a light blush and a calm "Not now Naruto." Then getting up and walking off a bit to remove the temptation urge for both of them.

They did a better job of showing Sakura's feelings for and attraction to Naruto in the Sora filler arc especially when Naruto briefly ends up nearly laying right on top of Sakura.

[fireandice]

Haha, with regards to the hug, it's really immaterial whether she was cupping his face or not or exactly what.

In my culture, people usually don't hug others who are not their relatives (even then we don't hug our male relatives unless like sibling/father e.g). Hugging a non-relative male acquaintance is seen as romantic , even those loose hugs I was talking about usually like when say a team wins a competition, so the teammates may hug each other and go hooray, but other than that such embraces aren't common. Even then, the way Sakura hugs Naruto is really intimate, I believe even for Western cultures as I see ciardha's pointed out. I mean, Kishi clearly wanted it to be viewed romantically (with Kakashi and the children around them blushing).

I think sometimes the filler tends to overstate Naruto's supposed "stupidity" . Well, at least from the Pain arc onwards, they should show him much more mature as he is in the manga, because it was from that point on he really changed too. I think Shippuden has caught on though, there was one omake when Naruto and Sakura are at some festival and see the ghost of Sandaime and Sakura ends up screaming and ends up really close to Naruto causing both of them to blush.

Well, with regards to the Sakura being replaced by Hinata art, I believe someone posted one diagram in Spanish a while back? I also found it interesting one mangaka who was drawing Naruto for Kishi to celebrate 10 years drew a bag with Naruto and Sakura keychains (no Sasuke or Hinata). (NaruHina fans redrew it showing Hinata instead of Sakura...)

Edited by fireandice, 07 January 2010 - 06:04 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

They did a better job of showing Sakura's feelings for and attraction to Naruto in the Sora filler arc especially when Naruto briefly ends up nearly laying right on top of Sakura.

And how jealous she felt when it looked like Fuka was making out with Naruto and vice versa.

Bryon

[catsi563]

Haha, with regards to the hug, it's really immaterial whether she was cupping his face or not or exactly what.

Actually

In ciardhas defence it is highly material and relevant. In body language circles when a woman is intimate or has strong feelings for a man. one of the ways to express this is by hugging very closely.

one of the actions taken is to run or entwine the fingers in the hair as Sakura does. this is done to "deepen" the hug by pulling him closer to her thus removing space between them.

this entails a serious amount of feeling for a person, as well as a deep trust for that person. As such a hug exposes the woman by opening her chest and abdominal areas to the person shes hugging.

[Devil Keyz]

^^ LOL thats something Sai would say.

[Gravenimage]

Haha, with regards to the hug, it's really immaterial whether she was cupping his face or not or exactly what.

In my culture, people usually don't hug others who are not their relatives (even then we don't hug our male relatives unless like sibling/father e.g). Hugging a non-relative male acquaintance is seen as romantic , even those loose hugs I was talking about usually like when say a team wins a competition, so the teammates may hug each other and go hooray, but other than that such embraces aren't common. Even then, the way Sakura hugs Naruto is really intimate, I believe even for Western cultures as I see ciardha's pointed out. I mean, Kishi clearly wanted it to be viewed romantically (with Kakashi and the children around them blushing).

I think sometimes the filler tends to overstate Naruto's supposed "stupidity" . Well, at least from the Pain arc onwards, they should show him much more mature as he is in the manga, because it was from that point on he really changed too. I think Shippuden has caught on though, there was one omake when Naruto and Sakura are at some festival and see the ghost of Sandaime and Sakura ends up screaming and ends up really close to Naruto causing both of them to blush.

Well, with regards to the Sakura being replaced by Hinata art, I believe someone posted one diagram in Spanish a while back? I also found it interesting one mangaka who was drawing Naruto for Kishi to celebrate 10 years drew a bag with Naruto and Sakura keychains (no Sasuke or Hinata). (NaruHina fans redrew it showing Hinata instead of Sakura...)

Yes I saw that its from the latest fan book a mangaka (forgot her name ) which she's a famous writer for a shoujo series (forgot the name of the series too ) she was the one who drew that the Naruto and Sakura keychains. Less than three hours after the fan book was released N/H fans drew a crappy version of the picture with Naruto and Hinata keychains. I prefer the original version over the edited one looks like in Japan they know the canon pairing Kishi has in mind they are not stubborn and in denial like certain people from a certain fandom.

Also even an asian knows that hug wasn't brotherly because I believe in Japan when you hugged someone who isn't a relative its clearly shown as a romantic sign the same thing when they are holding hands. They are very reserve with love and they value confidence a lot when it comes to a relationship I think I'm right someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited by Gravenimage, 07 January 2010 - 01:17 PM.

[Froot]

Froot, her fingers are at the back, as you can see here her palm is cupping his face- part of jawline through bottom ear, hands aren't just fingers...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/450/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/450/06/

So yes, she is cupping his face with her head right against the other side of his head, with her chin resting on his shoulder. No overplaying, that's exactly what is on the two big panels on those two pages.

You're still arguing about this?

Regardless of whether or not she was cupping his face (which she wasn't because you can clearly see that most of her hand rests on the back or side of his neck) like fireandice said, it was still an intimate postion for them to be in either way, and in their culture, you simply do not hug a "friend" like that of the opposite gender.

Even when Sakura hugged Sasuke, this was more intimate because of the emphasis it got and just the overall position. There was the back hug, where she wasn't even facing him, and then the hospital hug where Sasuke wasn't even paying attention to her and the panel was so small because it was in Naruto's POV. This hug got pretty much the whole page and seemed to be from everyone's pov.. Like catsi said, she's making herself vulnerable, and for a kunoichi or any other ninja for that matter, opening up your defenses like that is a big risk.

Well, with regards to the Sakura being replaced by Hinata art, I believe someone posted one diagram in Spanish a while back? I also found it interesting one mangaka who was drawing Naruto for Kishi to celebrate 10 years drew a bag with Naruto and Sakura keychains (no Sasuke or Hinata). (NaruHina fans redrew it showing Hinata instead of Sakura...)

Yes. And they couldn't stand the thought, so they claimed it as their own. Like the manga, basically. They bash the pictures and call them meaningless and worthless then go and steal them. It shows how mature they are, the ones who do this. As far as I can remember, there are no works where NaruSaku fans replaced Hinata with Sakura. Mostly because there's no need to, but also partly because we've no desire to as most of the supposed "NaruHina moments" are unextraordinary anyways.

Edited by Froot, 07 January 2010 - 01:33 PM.

[tricksie]

Eh...face or head, scalp or cheek....tomato, tomahto

I personally have always thought she was holding him a little tenderly at that delightful spot just behind your ear. So what would that be? Neck? Hair? Any, it's a lovely little intimate scene.

And I've thought about the big panel on page 6, the closeup of their hug. She's drawn with her hand denting into his hair. I think this is so important to deciphering the tone of their hug.

Think about it: If she didn't have her hand there, this could really be interpreted as just a friendly hug (to international audiences of course). There would be a lot of grey area concerning Sakura's feelings if we didn't have some feelings of closeness from her before her big confession. If she confessed without this little hug, she would be widely panned as lying to Naruto.

If she went up and confessed without any intimate scenes to support it, well, she'd be...Hinata!

So drawing her hand pushing a little into his hair is an intimate gesture that I think can't be overlooked. Laying the foundation for her feelings later on.

Just as important to me are the fact that her hair is also draping a little over his neck and she is position so her shoulder is rounding toward him. And of course her tender expression.

She's not portrayed as a flat body, giving a distant hug with a squeaky little smile - and no hand in his hair.

All the body language shows her curving into him.

I know nobody else seems to think about the drawing as much as I do - overanalyzation, it's a problem! - but I see so many little things that clearly support Naruto and Sakura's bond. The illustrations are not muddied by poor translations or social mores. They are straight from the source.

There are no intimate portrayals of Hinata and Naruto. None. Zip. Zilch.

[tricksie]

Just checking my spelling, and I have found a home for my particular brand of wackiness:

cartoonoveranalyzations.com

Man. That's gonna be a timesuck.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Guys, I got this from Tv Troupes..

All of the love drama in the manga was never really about who ends up with who
Come on, this is a shonen. Jiraiya stated that being rejected by Tsunade was what made him a man, which means he didn't need to "get" any girl period. In reality, accepting that she didn't want to be with him was what made him grow up and accept reality. We don't pity him for not getting the woman he wanted; instead, we admire how he handled it. It's becoming obvious that dedicating yourself to love or power/vengeance cannot guarantee real happiness. In reality, people have to look within for a meaning in life, and be strong enough to not use other people to give life meaning, whether by loving them or hating them. Naruto became much stronger and more mature when he accepted Sakura's love for Sasuke, and later didn't accept her appealingly fake confession. Hinata nicely illustrates being able to maturely (and powerfully) express one's love without any regrets, and then be able to let go and move on without hinging your sense of self worth on another person's feelings and actions when she maturely handled Naruto not returning her feelings and didn't really sit around waiting for him to do so. Meanwhile, Sakura is walking towards her death because she still loves Sasuke and wants to spare him from a life of darkness. So, Naruto may be the first manga to ever portray All Love Is Unrequited in a life affirming and positive way.

* Except we haven't really seen Hinata at all since this arc started, so we don't know what her feelings are right now or how Naruto actually reacted to her confession for that matter.
* Dude, get real. If he actually liked her, he would've shown it by now. Same thing with Sakura towards Naruto and Sasuke towards Sakura. The idea of Naruto liking Hinata back is based purely on wishful thinking as opposed to obvious facts. The obvious facts, provided by explicit canon admission and Word Of God, are these: Naruto loves Sakura. Sakura doesn't love Naruto back, and we have no reason to think she ever will; she still loves Sasuke. (who is only getting more evil and doesn't have romantic interest in anyone.) The words we're looking for are All Love Is Unrequited and No Hugging No Kissing.
* Naruto has NOT had an opportunity to think about Hinata's confession- he's been real busy ever since, going directly from healing to being out in the field. However, he has had a 'reaction'- going 6-tails when he realizes that Hinata's love will indeed be forever unrequited. When Sakura tells him that she's fallen in love with him, he calls bull and tells her angrily to get out of his sight. A major difference there- he's willing to accept the random girl, but doesn't even think about accepting the girl he actually loves. MY theory is that the next chapter that focuses on him will have him thinking through these things as well as about what to do with Sasuke.
* Right. Where in the text does it indicate Naruto accepted her feelings? Am I just too lazy and apathetic as a reader to read the fine print that's neccesary to shipping any of three big popular ships? Face it: there's nothing that supports Naruto liking Hinata aside from hopeful speculation. It's no different from arguing that Sakura actually has romantic feelings for Naruto despite the blatant evidence to the contrary or trying to say that Sasuke accepted Sakura's confession because of his "thank you" despite what happens later. Sorry if I'm coming off as an unromantic jerk- I only ship people when it's blindingly obvious both parties like each other and/or it seems inevitable they're going to at least try to be together in a romantic sense.
* P.S, this is a freaking battle shonen. We're not going to get a beautiful Love Epiphany from Naruto or anyone else. If you want that kind of relationship development, take Oda's advice and read an actual romance manga. (can I suggest Bakuman? The hero ends up with the adorable shy girl with an uncanny resemblance to Hinata, and the development is really touching and satisfying.)
* Alternatively, Kishimoto is just deliberately creating a topic that automatically results in Internet Backdraft and Ship To Ship Combat whenever it is brought up even tangentally, even in a non-shipping context. As the response to this WMG shows, he succeeded perfectly.

What's your reaction guys?

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

WTF lol

Yeah... you're not alone on that, man... :-/

Bryon

[Jenskott]

Wondering me if we are reading the same manga.

It especially boggled my mind when one of them said Kishimoto himself has said Sakura doesn't love Naruto.

And the customary NH excuses and twisting of facts got me scratching my head.

Edit: This is a kind of counter-shipping. Not accepting someone can love someone despite numerous evidences to the contrary.

Oh, and appalingly fake? Please. And where they got from Naruto rejected her and ordered her getting out of her sight?

Edited by Jenskott, 07 January 2010 - 03:05 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Wondering me if we are reading the same manga.

It especially boggled my mind when one of them said Kishimoto himself has said Sakura doesn't love Naruto.

And the customary NH excuses and twisting of facts got me scratching my head.

As I said to Goku, you're not alone in that department, Jenskott. XD

Bryon

[Jenskott]

Thank you. Personally I think it isn't even worth my time and effort bringing down that nosense.

Moreover, I don't need. If it all happens how I believe, the manga will do it nicely in my stead.

But I find very funny how the Sakura's confession's scene is becoming completely different from the actual scene in the fans' minds. It being appalingly fake? She obviously lying? Naruto calling it bull, rejecting it and ordering she got out of his sight? Nothing of that happened.

And I find very funny how they wholeheartedly accept Sakura loves Sasuke but they refuse accepting she loves Naruto in spite of the same source states the former confirms the latter and Kishimoto has said he thought he was portrayingly her like a honest girl in that scene.

And they state she is going to kill Sasuke out of love for him, but they erase off their minds it was told she is going to do it out of love for Naruto as well.

[Gravenimage]

Guys, I got this from Tv Troupes..

What's your reaction guys?

Well obviously whoever wrote this its not a N/H, N/S, S/S or even N/Sasu fan he's just basically saying that the manga won't have any require love. But he's wrong by the fact that Kishi himself said that" one love will be require" and that there will one canon pairing "with development". Also I think what Kishi is trying to show in his manga how the next generation will surpass the old generation and make it even better than they did. The oldest example is the sanin/team seven theory I believe Kishi wants to show that the members of team seven will surpass each of the sanins in the things they couldn't achieve.

Jiraiya:

-He never found the answer for peace.
-He never got the woman he loved Tsunade.
-He never saved his best friend Orochimaru from the darkness.

Naruto as his apprentice:

-Will find an answer to peace.
-He will win the heart of the girl he has always love Sakura.
-He will find a way to save his best friend Sasuke from the darkness.
-He will fulfill his life long dream of becoming Hokage.

The same thing goes for Sakura she will surpass Tsunade as a medic nin and she won't make the same mistake she made when finally accepting love in the last moment. Tsunade was finally ready to accept Jiraiya in her heart but she was too late because he died. I believe Sakura won't make that mistake and accept Naruto in her heart its all part of surpassing the next generation. As for Sasuke I won't get to him.

Edited by Gravenimage, 07 January 2010 - 03:24 PM.