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#30261 FireFox

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:41 AM

I'm saying this out of bare curiosity and not to prolong this further but....how is that any different? "HE must be a great guy" isn't really different from "If you love HIM" 

There's still the problem of him directly referring to the person she was talking about. I would completely understand it if she thought of Sasuke because he said "if its someone you love-" but he was directly talking about who she was referring to. So why is it that chris the cripple referring to "him" would get her to think of Sasuke instead of "someone"

I have already told you why Sakura wasn't referring to Sasuke about the "Someone else" and why it doesn't make any sense by what happened previously in the manga its in my first post Body language and Speech matters its a visual media she was definitely uncomfortable with the LN and his declaration of Love.

 

First Its different bc it doesn't specify anyone like with "He/him" that you are using which is not there in the first place but "The person" it can be generalized bc Sakura didn't love/d only one person in her life also like @megi said to me Sakura only associated Sasuke with romantic feelings in here (something that we knew from before) not that he''s definitely the only one she ever "love/d" and  you are not taking into a consideration that the LN was giving Sakura a compliment in the first place  but that compliment backfired bc not everyone she loved was a "great guy" this is the sole reason why she thinks of Sasuke "associates" him in the first place . And I have already told you if by Sakura Sasuke isn't the "great guy" in her life that she loves  the who is the actual great guy that she loves ? I think its obvious who that guy is and why this is a obvious Red Hearing furthermore 675 already proved that she doesn't love him in that way . Now take it as you wish since I'm already tired of me and others explaining this for the thousand of times .


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#30262 xxRomanceGirlxx

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 11:11 AM

@Crow T Robot:

 

Sorry for interrupting, but I have something to say about the execution of the love triangle and the whole "silver medal" argument. I have a somewhat different viewpoint about 540 and how it affects NaruSaku than most of the people you've been debating with and I'd like to see if my POV will help you any. :happy:

 

Firstly, I understand how I feel. Nearly every NS has been thrown by 540 at some point. It's confusing. Everything we've been saying, no matter how different the individual argument is, aren't any more right or wrong and than what you and me are saying. That said, I think it's important to consider multiple interpretations for 540. Here's my take.

 

Yes. It is strongly implied---both through Sakura's actions & Naruto's reaction to her confession---that she was still romantically conflicted. She was just recovering from the revelation of Sasuke a criminal on top of Naruto's feelings for her, given absolutely no realistic time to absorb all that, and acted out a confession she was far from ready for. Kishi supposedly said she was being honest in her confession ... yet also stated vaguely "Still ... Sasuke." (implying unresolved Sasuke issues from her end) Contradicting, isn't it? Kishimoto says one thing and says another. What are we supposed to take from that?

 

However, even if Sakura was referring to Sasuke in 540, you have to understand her rejection of the love letter-nin wasn't a dazzling proclamation of Sakura saving herself for Sasuke. SS had nothing but negativity before this: murder attempts, shame, distrust. Now wouldn't it make sense for Sakura to feel ashamed of her feelings, especially considering how miserably her confession to Naruto and killing Sasuke failed?

 

Sakura DOES NOT want to be with Sasuke. She doesn't spend 24 hours a day mooning over him, spending time with Naruto, comparing him to Sasuke romantically, and then wishing that was Sasuke instead. That would be a "silver medal", forced by circumstance. Sakura has evolved past that and with all the development of NS plus Sakura's clear unhappiness having feelings for Sasuke, this idea is inefficient to say the least.

 

But this must be said too. Kakashi implied Sakura as over Sasuke in 675, but it goes back to 540. Now this may be grossly misinterpreted by me or not, but here it goes.

 

Sakura doesn't love Sasuke anymore. Sakura hasn't gotten over Sasuke in a day or two either with how the recent the Kage Summit Arc was. And Sakura's line in the anime that she used to love Sasuke is filler and her manga declaration is under intense ambiguity. So ... here's a halfway:

 

Sakura doesn't love Sasuke, but is still blind to the true nature of feelings for Naruto. She thinks she still loves Sasuke, blinded by previous conceptions (Part 1: loving Sasuke, not liking Naruto) which is all caused by lack of closure from Sasuke himself. Sasuke has been gone for years and no matter how dark he became or close she is to Naruto, she can't distinguish what's real and what isn't; in a way, you could say she associates Sasuke with love because she doesn't know anything else. She's frozen in the middle, unable to figure out her feelings. That's what Sakura's confession didn't always seem sincere. That's why 540 happened. That's why NS still isn't canon. 

 

I think this conflict for Sakura is realistic. Plenty of girls in fiction and real life have gone through this with exes after entering a bad relationship and that they get so caught up in it, they don't always pick up on falling for another. This can also happen with friends who develop feelings for each other over a long time period because you grow so used to that easy friendship your mind can't see it changed as easily as your heart can (IMO, yet another wall of Sakura's for NS). 

 

Naruto is not a silver medal. Not Sakura's heart and not even in her mind. Thinking she loves Sasuke doesn't mean she rejects the possibility she likes Naruto too. Sakura's confession showed this. She's just confused and needs closure with Sasuke first before she can break that stubborn part of her brain that can't readily believe loving Naruto.  

 

While Sakura would love to love Naruto ... there's still that unconscious part of saying "Love Naruto? No way ... how?" It's not because she thinks he's unworthy or that there's no way she can like him. It's more a reflex of how it used to be, maybe even a fear of change. Loving Naruto and being with him is a unfamiliar concept to her, even though she really does love him. Sakura needs to take a chance Naruto doesn't screw up again and realize that what she thought was too much change wasn't as hard as she first thought. 

 

540 & 675 seem contradicting, but they really aren't. Though I won't argue Sakura's conflict on the Sasuke front hasn't been dragged out for far too long when her love had no real foundation in the first place. The realism aspect of her romantic conflict between Naruto and Sasuke ends there. 


Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 31 August 2014 - 03:58 AM.

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#30263 KnS

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 12:04 PM

Good post, RG.  I always appreciate posts where people take the time to explain something well.

 

I have a couple of things to add...

 

I still believe that when the Lover nin first approached Sakura with the love letter and she says something about there being someone else, she was talking about Naruto being the "someone else" with whom she was involved.  

 

I believe this because of her general demeanor in that scene; she was able to say she had someone else easily and with no trace of confusion or conflict.  Her thoughts didn't turn dark until the nin said whoever she loved must be a great person.  She then thought of Sasuke, who she knew was not a great person and that she had hurt the great person in her life -- Naruto -- by having ever loved Sasuke instead.

 

I also believe she meant Naruto because not long before the lover nin scene, she had confessed to loving Naruto in front of witnesses. Things between her and Naruto were not resolved clearly, but she had left without taking back her declaration of love or her desire to be with Naruto instead of Sasuke.

 

Sakura has been confused, and I agree that she has had to absorb a lot in what is a very short period of time in the Narutoverse timeline.  In my opinion, if she was 100% sure/aware of the nature of her feelings for Naruto, it would be more damaging than whatever confusion over Sasuke (which I think is practically zero at this point) remains in her heart and mind.

 

It hasn't been very long since she found out Naruto is in love with her, and she's had to come to terms with Sai's indictment of her treatment of Naruto.  If she were suddenly as obviously fangirly with Naruto as she was with Sasuke, it would make Sakura shallow and fickle.

 

For the complete transition of Sakura's feelings for Naruto to be realistic -- to realize the full extent of her love for him -- it has to take some time.  She has to realize exactly what Kakashi already has -- that she can still love Sasuke without being in love with him.  

 

Once she does, she can realize she not only loves Naruto, but that she might very well have fallen in love with him.



#30264 Swagkura

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 12:12 PM

She doesn't realize that she loves Naruto. His confession will make her Sakura kinomoto.

LMAO, I hope so :lol:
tumblr_o2ymbkICMv1ttuk3wo3_500.gif

 


#30265 BlazingDynamo

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 12:22 PM

@Crow T Robot:

 

Sorry for interrupting, but I have something to say about the execution of the love triangle and the whole "silver medal" argument. I have a somewhat different viewpoint about 540 and how it affects NaruSaku than most of the people you've been debating with and I'd like to see if my POV will help you any. :happy:

 

Firstly, I understand how I feel. Nearly every NS has been thrown by 540 at some point. It's confusing. Everything we've been saying, no matter how different the individual argument is, aren't any more right or wrong and than what you and me are saying. That said, I think it's important to consider multiple interpretations for 540. Here's my take.

 

Yes. It is strongly implied---both through Sakura's actions & Naruto's reaction to her confession---that she was still romantically conflicted. She was just recovering from the revelation of Sasuke a criminal on top of Naruto's feelings for her, given absolutely no realistic time to absorb all that, and acted out a confession she was far from ready for. Kishi supposedly said she was being honest in her confession ... yet also stated vaguely "Still ... Sasuke." (implying unresolved Sasuke issues from her end) Contradicting, isn't it? Kishimoto says one thing and says another. What are we supposed to take from that?

 

However, even if Sakura was referring to Sasuke in 540, you have to understand her rejection of the love letter-nin wasn't a dazzling proclamation of Sakura saving herself for Sasuke. SS had nothing but negativity before this: murder attempts, shame, distrust. Now wouldn't it make sense for Sakura to feel ashamed of her feelings, especially considering how miserably her confession to Naruto and killing Sasuke failed?

 

Sakura DOES NOT want to be with Sasuke. She doesn't spend 24 hours a day mooning over him, spending time with Naruto, comparing him to Sasuke romantically, and then wishing that was Sasuke instead. That would be a "silver medal", forced by circumstance. Sakura has evolved past that and with all the development of NS plus Sakura's clear unhappiness having feelings for Sasuke, this idea is inefficient to say the least.

 

But this must be said too. Kakashi implied Sakura as over Sasuke in 675, but it goes back to 540. Now this may be grossly misinterpreted by me or not, but here it goes.

 

Sakura doesn't love Sasuke anymore. Sakura hasn't gotten over Sasuke in a day or two either with how the recent the Kage Summit Arc was. And Sakura's line in the anime that she used to love Sasuke is filler and her manga declaration is under intense ambiguity. So ... here's a halfway:

 

Sakura doesn't love Sasuke, but is still blind to her the true nature of feelings for Naruto. She thinks she still loves Sasuke, blinded by previous conceptions (Part 1: loving Sasuke, not liking Naruto) which is all caused by lack of closure from Sasuke himself. Sasuke has been gone for years and no matter how dark he became or close she is to Naruto, she can't distinguish what's real and what isn't; in a way, you could say she associates Sasuke with love because she doesn't know anything else. She's frozen in the middle, unable to figure out her feelings. That's what Sakura's confession didn't always seem sincere. That's why 540 happened. That's why NS still isn't canon. 

 

I think this conflict for Sakura is realistic. Plenty of girls in fiction and real life have gone through this with exes after entering a bad relationship and that they get so caught up in it, they don't always pick up on falling for another. This can also happen with friends who develop feelings for each other a long time period because you grow so used to that easy friendship your mind can't see it changed as easily as your heart can (IMO, yet another wall of Sakura's for NS). 

 

Naruto is not a silver medal. Not Sakura's heart and not even in her mind. Thinking she loves Sasuke doesn't mean she rejects the possibility she likes Naruto too. Sakura's confession showed this. She's just confused and needs closure with Sasuke first before she can break that stubborn part of her brain that can't readily believe loving Naruto.  

 

While Sakura would love to love Naruto ... there's still that unconscious part of saying "Love Naruto? No way ... how?" It's not because she thinks he's unworthy or that there's no way can like him. It's more a reflex of how it used to be, maybe even a fear of change. Loving Naruto and being relationship with him is a unfamiliar concept to her, even though she really does love him. Sakura needs to take a chance Naruto doesn't screw up again and realize that what she thought was too much change wasn't as hard as she first thought. 

 

540 & 675 seem contradicting, but they really aren't. Though I won't argue Sakura's conflict on the Sasuke front hasn't been dragged out for far too long when her love had no real foundation in the first place. The realism aspect of her romantic conflict between Naruto and Sasuke ends there. 

Well what about the part when that ninja she healed said to her "he must be a great guy if you love him" in the background Sasuke was there



#30266 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 12:26 PM

Well what about the part when that ninja she healed said to her "he must be a great guy if you love him" in the background Sasuke was there

She was talking about that the whole time. 540 is that scene you're referring to.

#30267 Gojira

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 12:48 PM

Hmm, how do you expect NS to happen then? So you think she knows what she truly feels for both boys and is conflicted?

No. There's no real conflict left, all that's left is resolution.

 

Same thing happened in FMA. Halfway through Winry found out she had feelings for Ed and everyone kept telling Ed about his feelings for her throughout the story, but they pretty much remained just friends until the last half of the final chapter when Ed actually decided to grow a pair and propose to her in an unusual way no less (though Winry's response was adorable)


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#30268 BlazingDynamo

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:02 PM

She was talking about that the whole time. 540 is that scene you're referring to.

Oh yeah right (Stupid me) :facepalm: :bash:



#30269 redragon88

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:24 PM

@xxRomanceGirlxx @KnS

 

Pretty good posts, both of you.

 

I'll say that if we get some down time in the following chapters instead of more fighting it should serve as the perfect opportunity to put an end to Sakura's romantic plot.

 

I couldn't possibly comprehend it if Kishi decided to have that still unresolved during "The Last". I mean, what would be the point of having Kakashi make such a clear observation about Sakura's feelings in 675 and yet have her with the same issues literally years later. That would only make Sakura look like a girl who isn't capable of making her own decisions, and I hope Kishi is aware of that.



#30270 BlazingDynamo

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:30 PM

@xxRomanceGirlxx @KnS

 

Pretty good posts, both of you.

 

I'll say that if we get some down time in the following chapters instead of more fighting it should serve as the perfect opportunity to put an end to Sakura's romantic plot.

 

I couldn't possibly comprehend it if Kishi decided to have that still unresolved during "The Last". I mean, what would be the point of having Kakashi make such a clear observation about Sakura's feelings in 675 and yet have her with the same issues literally years later. That would only make Sakura look like a girl who isn't capable of making her own decisions, and I hope Kishi is aware of that.

Both of them are really smart and they know what they're talking about even RomanceGirl completely convinced me



#30271 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:55 PM

Not unless movie status is place holder until mange said so.

#30272 Swagkura

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:12 PM

Painfully accurate:

sasusaku_at_483_and_484_by_cloversama-d3


tumblr_o2ymbkICMv1ttuk3wo3_500.gif

 


#30273 elmas

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:14 PM

Painfully accurate:

sasusaku_at_483_and_484_by_cloversama-d3

:lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:


                          tumblr_nipy94W2uE1tjr97wo2_500.gif


#30274 Swagkura

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:18 PM

:lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:  :lmao:

:shrug:


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#30275 elmas

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:19 PM

:shrug:

Why?It's funny but true.*Sigh*  :confused:


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#30276 Swagkura

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:21 PM

Why?It's funny but true.*Sigh*  :confused:

Yeah, I know. I just find it sad that some of them actually believe this is how it went down  -_-


tumblr_o2ymbkICMv1ttuk3wo3_500.gif

 


#30277 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:22 PM

Wow...

I brought my Xbox 360 to test something yet I left my power supply...

Fail.

#30278 elmas

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:28 PM

Yeah, I know. I just find it sad that some of them actually believe this is how it went down  -_-

Yeah some fans believe it.They aren't much lucky like NH.At least they are a bit lucky.Everything is negative for their ship right now.


                          tumblr_nipy94W2uE1tjr97wo2_500.gif


#30279 Swagkura

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:39 PM

Yeah some fans believe it.They aren't much lucky like NH.At least they are a bit lucky.Everything is negative for their ship right now.

I definitely don't like NH, but I can admit that their a way better pairing than SS ever could be. Even though it is incredibly one sided.
tumblr_o2ymbkICMv1ttuk3wo3_500.gif

 


#30280 elmas

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:43 PM

I definitely don't like NH, but I can admit that their a way better pairing than SS ever could be. Even though it is incredibly one sided.

I hate NH because of Hinata.Sometimes I like SS fan arts but when I see NH fan arts I feel disgusted.But NH is better pairing compared to SS.


                          tumblr_nipy94W2uE1tjr97wo2_500.gif





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