4869 replies to this topic

[Gravenimage]

I'm frankly waiting for Kishi to show those N/H fans how wrong they are of their view of Sakura I just love how Kishi shows it. I'm sure we all remember when 437 came and how the N/H fans were screaming in joy shouting to the heavens that N/H was canon and they started rubbing in it in our faces that we lost that N/S is dead yata yata blabla. Yet my favorite part was when Kishi made them think otherwise and gave all of those N/H fans a good slap to the face with his N/S reality showing them the 450 N/S "sibling hug " and they were all shocked and they lie to themselves and prevent them from getting desperate they spread the rumor that it was a "sibling hug" that there was nothing romantic about it. Shortly they made the fan art of the hug changing Sakura with Hinata. Then 457, 458 and 459 I laughed hard at their reactions, its like a N/S nuclear bomb fell on N/H country and BOOM!

In truth I love how they keep denying the truth and lying to themselves about the whole N/S slow development throughout the entire manga. It's even more amusing at how Kishi keep proving them otherwise showing them that they're all wrong and N/H its pretty much a dream that it's only possible in fan art, fan fiction and doujinshis.

[X105]

I didn't use it becuase that was Kishimoto's response to the people writing him who said "she used naruto's love for her and told him she loved him. Note Kishimoto says ON THE CONTRARY I " Good grief! I notice you left out the other comments he received from these same people going on and on about how wonderful Hinata was vs how awful Sakura was and how this had gotten to the point it was irritating Kishimoto, and how in response he was going write Sakura even more heroic and even more a central character.

The manga itself supports Kishimoto's words about writing Sakura the way he intended. No wonder Kishimoto is irritated, I'm getting rather irritated myself from seeing some readers who call themselves narusaku fans being as being even more set in their image of Sakura as a 12 year old Sasuke fangirl as Naruto, mixed with rabid naruhina shipper Sakura bashing, and bound and determined not to change that image no matter what happens in the manga or even what Kishimoto says in interviews.

I do not know the specific interview you read so if that was the case then I apologize, but the one I read from NF stated the the quote I used as a response to the question How does she feel about Sasuke? I saw that kishimoto later brought up the fan letters during his response, but I did not see that with any connection to the quote I used.

The manga supports both of my points as I said in my posts so I do not quite understand what in my post seems to contradict Sakura's character. I see the NS relationship more complicated than some people, but that does not mean I am less of a fan. It was pretty obvious to see where Kishimoto was going with this romance, but he is still trying to keep things as vague as he can.

[Evil Potato]

To some people that think Sakura just recently realized her love for Naruto and forgot her love for Sasuke --->

I personally believe that Sakura has been in love with Naruto for awhile, I think that Sakura fought hard to bring Sasuke home because he was their teammate, and because it caused Naruto so much pain to not bring him home, and to protect Naruto.

I think that Sakura never confronted Naruto for one big reason, because she didnt know he he loved her. I don't think that she cried for Sasuke in front of the cloud nins because she was in love, but because the person that used to be their comrade had done unforgivable crimes and also was possibly hunting Naruto. Right there she probably felt the burden of losing their teammate for good. She saw as both her's and Naruto's biggest goal was crushed and that likely made her break down.

I also don't believe Sakura confessed because of guilt but because Naruto's feelings were confirmed and she saw the best way to ease his pain would be to return his love with the love she had for him, and also the chance that he would give up on Sasuke, but she even was ready when this didn't become reality and acted like she would return to Konoha but instead went after Sasuke.

I think the only person confused about their feelings in this series may be Karin, only because Sasuke is turning darker and growing more evil every time he fights right in front of her eyes.

[ciardha]

To some people that think Sakura just recently realized her love for Naruto and forgot her love for Sasuke --->

I personally believe that Sakura has been in love with Naruto for awhile, I think that Sakura fought hard to bring Sasuke home because he was their teammate, and because it caused Naruto so much pain to not bring him home, and to protect Naruto.

I think that Sakura never confronted Naruto for one big reason, because she didnt know he he loved her. I don't think that she cried for Sasuke in front of the cloud nins because she was in love, but because the person that used to be their comrade had done unforgivable crimes and also was possibly hunting Naruto. Right there she probably felt the burden of losing their teammate for good. She saw as both her's and Naruto's biggest goal was crushed and that likely made her break down.

I also don't believe Sakura confessed because of guilt but because Naruto's feelings were confirmed and she saw the best way to ease his pain would be to return his love with the love she had for him, and also the chance that he would give up on Sasuke, but she even was ready when this didn't become reality and acted like she would return to Konoha but instead went after Sasuke.

I think the only person confused about their feelings in this series may be Karin, only because Sasuke is turning darker and growing more evil every time he fights right in front of her eyes.

Yeah I agree Sakura had no idea Naruto was deeply in love with her until Sai told her so. Remember Sai even asked Naruto why he didn't let Sakura know. Sai knew Sakura had some feelings of love for Naruto within days of meeting her (as did Yamato) Sakura didn't deny what either Sai or Yamato said, she took both things in as the truth about her feelings.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah I agree Sakura had no idea Naruto was deeply in love with her until Sai told her so. Remember Sai even asked Naruto why he didn't let Sakura know. Sai knew Sakura had some feelings of love for Naruto within days of meeting her (as did Yamato) Sakura didn't deny what either Sai or Yamato said, she took both things in as the truth about her feelings.

Exactly. I think Sakura's feelings began to change a good bit waaaaay back in Part 1 before Part 2/Shippuden began. Not sure when, but even with her lashing out at him, I feel that things changed for them slowly. One of the most key points I'd say being when she learned Naruto was the one to save her from Gaara. And we saw how she blushed when seeing Naruto's guts when he took back his headband from Zabuza, even if he knew he could have died.

So I am not sure if I'm right or not, but it seems highly likely Sakura's feelings could have changed slowly in part 1 too.

Bryon

[Strangelove]

Yeah I agree Sakura had no idea Naruto was deeply in love with her until Sai told her so. Remember Sai even asked Naruto why he didn't let Sakura know. Sai knew Sakura had some feelings of love for Naruto within days of meeting her (as did Yamato) Sakura didn't deny what either Sai or Yamato said, she took both things in as the truth about her feelings.

Sakura is a growing woman, and Kishi really knows on how to portray this.
In Part 1 she was really uncomfortable in her own skin, in part 2, she shows more maturity to the point where her inner self appears very very irregularly.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

I had read some thread in the other fourm about "The most popular Naruto pairing". And guess what? it is SasuSaku
SS fans are more determined with this.
Popularity vs Manga..Who do you think guys will win? or will prevail?

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 05 January 2010 - 11:18 AM.

[Gravenimage]

I had read some thread in the other fourm about "The most popular Naruto pairing". And guess what? it is SasuSaku
SS fans are more determined with this.
Popularity vs Manga..Who do you think guys will win? or will prevail?

That's just it. The only reason people want N/H and S/S it's because their popular pairings all over the world except Japan. I believe the most popular pairings there are yaoi pairings Kakashi/Iruka Naru/Sasu and finally Naru/Saku. You can tell those pairings are famous by the many fan art and hentai doujinshi they release every day. But the rest of the world wants N/H and S/S because of their popularity and most people namely women describe themselves perfectly with Hinata and Sakura when it comes to liking the boy of their dreams. We can blame part 1 for this because it was the part of the manga where Kishi focus and developed these one sided pairings. We all know that Kishi didn't intended to focus on romance during part 1 and even back then to me N/S was perfect and it made sense compare to the one sided pairings.

Most N/H fans are a bunch of crazy teenagers and they are mostly girls. Most of them are also how can I say this well dumb they have never read a manga before and they don't have a clue when it comes to analyzing a manga. And when they read the beginning of Naruto or watch the anime they immediately jump to those one sided pairings not having a clue that Naruto is a shonen (or not having a clue what shonen means) or not having a clue about the Japanese culture at all. They watch the series base on their culture and that's why to this very day they still believe those pairings will happen or the mere and stupid fact that because N/H and S/S are very famous pairings all over the world they believe Kishi will make those pairings canon in his manga like he's suppose to please them with everything they asked him to. They should know by now that Kishi isn't making any request to the fans and he will make that happen in his manga like he has to obey them. Because If Kishi was writing his manga base on what the fans demands:

1. He would never killed Itachi a character who had a lot of background and popularity.
2. He would never killed Jiraiya another important character with lots of potential and he was funny as hell with his perverted personality.
3. He would never killed Nagato another character with a lot of potential and the only one with the eyes of a god (Kishi basically killed the last descendant of the sage of the six paths)
4. He would never made Sasuke leave Konoha and he would have put him together with Sakura making S/S canon.
5. He would have put Naruto in the same team with Hinata allowing them to developed a strong bond and eventually N/H will be canon.
6. He would never killed Kisame.
7. He would never made Danzo candidate to become Hokage or even Kakashi he would have name Naruto Hokage already.

May I continue more???

Edited by Gravenimage, 05 January 2010 - 03:20 PM.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

AWESOME POST Graven..

Needless to say, I never expected in the 2010 popularity pairing poll, SS would be on top 3 and the rest outside japan fandom would be top 1.
Well the I guess, popularity is a different story basing on on the manga..

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 05 January 2010 - 03:05 PM.

[Gravenimage]

AWESOME POST Graven..

Needless to say, I never expected in the 2010 popularity pairing poll, SS would be on top 3 and the rest outside japan fandom would be top 1.
Well the I guess, popularity is a different story basing on on the manga..

Um....*blushes*....thanks I'm flatter

[TwilightLink20xx]

Actually Graven, I'd say that there are more SasuSaku shippers in that demographic you've targeted as NaruHina shippers. Anyways, I completely agree, and I would dare say that the biggest problem is that these readers forget what the target demographic is, what the style is, and the undeniable fact that Naruto is a morality tale. I see that the most common complaint from these readers is that "NaruSaku is boring, and this kind of relationship is overdone". Frankly, I'd say it's underdone these days, and the reason they think it's "overdone" is because most quality works have that kind of dynamic.

[Jenskott]

I see that the most common complaint from these readers is that "NaruSaku is boring, and this kind of relationship is overdone". Frankly, I'd say it's underdone these days, and the reason they think it's "overdone" is because most quality works have that kind of dynamic.

Boring, right like cuteness, is a subjective matter.

Ironically, the relationships they ships also are overdone. So if they don't ship NaruSaku and find it boring because it is overdone... well... they shouldn't ship NaruHina, SasuSaku or SasuNaru either.

Personally I don't mind whether a trope is overdone or it isn't (the ninety percent of tropes were way overdone before Virgil wrote the Aeneid). I mind for the execution, not for the so-called originality.

And NaruSaku has been very well executed whereas NH and SS have been awfully and poorly executed.

And I agree, that kind of pairing IS underdone nowadays.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Actually Graven, I'd say that there are more SasuSaku shippers in that demographic you've targeted as NaruHina shippers. Anyways, I completely agree, and I would dare say that the biggest problem is that these readers forget what the target demographic is, what the style is, and the undeniable fact that Naruto is a morality tale. I see that the most common complaint from these readers is that "NaruSaku is boring, and this kind of relationship is overdone". Frankly, I'd say it's underdone these days, and the reason they think it's "overdone" is because most quality works have that kind of dynamic.

Personally, I like how Kishimoto-sensei has handled NaruSaku so far. Since we've seen in spite of how it is at times that Sakura and Naruto both genuinely care for one another deep down.

Bryon

[kawarimi]

That's just it. The only reason people want N/H and S/S it's because their popular pairings all over the world except Japan. I believe the most popular pairings there are yaoi pairings Kakashi/Iruka Naru/Sasu and finally Naru/Saku. You can tell those pairings are famous by the many fan art and hentai doujinshi they release every day. But the rest of the world wants N/H and S/S because of their popularity and most people namely women describe themselves perfectly with Hinata and Sakura when it comes to liking the boy of their dreams. We can blame part 1 for this because it was the part of the manga where Kishi focus and developed these one sided pairings. We all know that Kishi didn't intended to focus on romance during part 1 and even back then to me N/S was perfect and it made sense compare to the one sided pairings.

Most N/H fans are a bunch of crazy teenagers and they are mostly girls. Most of them are also how can I say this well dumb they have never read a manga before and they don't have a clue when it comes to analyzing a manga. And when they read the beginning of Naruto or watch the anime they immediately jump to those one sided pairings not having a clue that Naruto is a shonen (or not having a clue what shonen means) or not having a clue about the Japanese culture at all. They watch the series base on their culture and that's why to this very day they still believe those pairings will happen or the mere and stupid fact that because N/H and S/S are very famous pairings all over the world they believe Kishi will make those pairings canon in his manga like he's suppose to please them with everything they asked him to. They should know by now that Kishi isn't making any request to the fans and he will make that happen in his manga like he has to obey them. Because If Kishi was writing his manga base on what the fans demands:

1. He would never killed Itachi a character who had a lot of background and popularity.
2. He would never killed Jiraiya another important character with lots of potential and he was funny as hell with his perverted personality.
3. He would never killed Nagato another character with a lot of potential and the only one with the eyes of a god (Kishi basically killed the last descendant of the sage of the six paths)
4. He would never made Sasuke leave Konoha and he would have put him together with Sakura making S/S canon.
5. He would have put Naruto in the same team with Hinata allowing them to developed a strong bond and eventually N/H will be canon.
6. He would never killed Kisame.
7. He would never made Danzo candidate to become Hokage or even Kakashi he would have name Naruto Hokage already.

May I continue more???

I think you should revisit your assumed stereotype for the NH fandom. There was a poll done on NF a while back and NS was mostly male, SS mostly female, and NH a pretty balanced mix of both. Although I don't have a poll to back this up, but from my interaction the NH fandom isn't made up a bunch of anime/manga noobs who don't even know what shounen is. No one fandom is predominantly that. I'm also pretty sure all the fandoms are probably the same mix of ages. I prefer to stay away from stereotypes, especially unfounded ones.

[Derock]

I like to say to people that we should avoid the stereotypes of this fandom and resume the debates of NaruSaku.

[Nate River]

That's just it. The only reason people want N/H and S/S it's because their popular pairings all over the world except Japan. I believe the most popular pairings there are yaoi pairings Kakashi/Iruka Naru/Sasu and finally Naru/Saku. You can tell those pairings are famous by the many fan art and hentai doujinshi they release every day. But the rest of the world wants N/H and S/S because of their popularity and most people namely women describe themselves perfectly with Hinata and Sakura when it comes to liking the boy of their dreams. We can blame part 1 for this because it was the part of the manga where Kishi focus and developed these one sided pairings. We all know that Kishi didn't intended to focus on romance during part 1 and even back then to me N/S was perfect and it made sense compare to the one sided pairings.

Most N/H fans are a bunch of crazy teenagers and they are mostly girls. Most of them are also how can I say this well dumb they have never read a manga before and they don't have a clue when it comes to analyzing a manga. And when they read the beginning of Naruto or watch the anime they immediately jump to those one sided pairings not having a clue that Naruto is a shonen (or not having a clue what shonen means) or not having a clue about the Japanese culture at all. They watch the series base on their culture and that's why to this very day they still believe those pairings will happen or the mere and stupid fact that because N/H and S/S are very famous pairings all over the world they believe Kishi will make those pairings canon in his manga like he's suppose to please them with everything they asked him to. They should know by now that Kishi isn't making any request to the fans and he will make that happen in his manga like he has to obey them. Because If Kishi was writing his manga base on what the fans demands:

1. He would never killed Itachi a character who had a lot of background and popularity.
2. He would never killed Jiraiya another important character with lots of potential and he was funny as hell with his perverted personality.
3. He would never killed Nagato another character with a lot of potential and the only one with the eyes of a god (Kishi basically killed the last descendant of the sage of the six paths)
4. He would never made Sasuke leave Konoha and he would have put him together with Sakura making S/S canon.
5. He would have put Naruto in the same team with Hinata allowing them to developed a strong bond and eventually N/H will be canon.
6. He would never killed Kisame.
7. He would never made Danzo candidate to become Hokage or even Kakashi he would have name Naruto Hokage already.

May I continue more???

Remember:

Be nice and treat others with respect.
Refrain from character bashing

As Derock said: You're free to debate the merits of the pairings, but don't let this turn into needless bashing of fans or fandoms otherwise this thread will get shutdown.

Personally, I like how Kishimoto-sensei has handled NaruSaku so far. Since we've seen in spite of how it is at times that Sakura and Naruto both genuinely care for one another deep down.

I'd like to add that each relationship fits a stereptype. The only difference is which stereotype they fit. Good writing isn't always about avoiding stereotypes or cliche's, but can also be doing something to make it your own unique variation.

I'm very critical of the writing in Naruto, but I think he has done a good job doing just that with NaruSaku.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I'd like to add that each relationship fits a stereptype. The only difference is which stereotype they fit. Good writing isn't always about avoiding stereotypes or cliche's, but can also be doing something to make it your own unique variation.

I'm very critical of the writing in Naruto, but I think he has done a good job doing just that with NaruSaku.

Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, Nate. I don't see Naruto and Sakura's relationship as the typical stuff you see in anime and manga. It's something different since it began to build over time, with Sakura thinking she knew all about Naruto right off the bat, and seemed to hate him for her thinking he enjoyed seeing her suffer and got in the way when he really just liked her a lot for whatever reason, and just wanted to win her heart, even if he screwed up a lot doing so.

Bryon

[Gravenimage]

Remember:

Be nice and treat others with respect.
Refrain from character bashing

As Derock said: You're free to debate the merits of the pairings, but don't let this turn into needless bashing of fans or fandoms otherwise this thread will get shutdown.



I'd like to add that each relationship fits a stereptype. The only difference is which stereotype they fit. Good writing isn't always about avoiding stereotypes or cliche's, but can also be doing something to make it your own unique variation.

I'm very critical of the writing in Naruto, but I think he has done a good job doing just that with NaruSaku.

I was bashing weren't I but I didn't meant it just giving my opinion I apologize.

[Miss Soupy]

Were most of the characters skeptical?
The only person I think was skeptical was Naruto, and he has since found out that his reasons for being skeptical (holding onto 3 year old memories of Team 7) were wrong. But since the reader identifies with him, that colored the rest of the scene, regardless of the truth.
I think the rest were surprised that she would put a love confession to Naruto ahead of killing Sasuke (*cough*cough* ).

Skeptical, angry. They weren't exactly happy, for whatever reason. Most likely because they sensed she wasn't being honest. But, why else would kishi make them look that way? Because it was meant to be viewed as a tense moment.

I think she has dealt with her feelings for Sasuke. (That's my interpretation.)
In chapter 458, she started bawling her eyes out when she realized how much Naruto loved her.
Then she opened her eyes in shock, then hung her head in shame, we she thought that she was hurting him.
(So she has had her eyes opened about Naruto.)
In chapter 459 page 10, she tells Shikamaru: "... please... don't say anything more..."
I think that is the moment she finally dealt with what she felt (past tense) for Sasuke, on top of all the subtle changes in Part II that led up to that moment.

Unfortunately, that isn't enough to say that it is 100% true. While I do agree Sakura seems to show very deep love for Naruto, the story is about bonds. This includes non-romantic bonds that are even more strong than romantic ones. The most important love in the story is non-romantic love between Naruto and Sasuke. Given that Kishimoto is so fond of showing love minus the romance, it is possible to say Sakura's reactions aren't romantic in nature.

Not saying that I believe this, but that it is a possible outcome.

What would need to be shown to make you think that Sakura has dealt with her feelings for Sasuke?
(That sounds more combative than I want. This is an honest question.)

For us to be shown that she has overcome them. She hasn't been shown as such, but this is mostly because kishimoto wants to stretch out the pairings, I think. If she can speak to Naruto truthfully, without hiding something, without lying or seeming false, then of course I will accept her intentions towards Naruto. But face it, Naruto and Sakura are still very focused on Sasuke. Sasuke is the final obstacle for both of them, whether it be due to romance, or something else.

Don't misunderstand me, I have a lot of faith in NS. However, I am not about to ignore that I am not the author, and that the way I view these two characters and what paths I think they should travel may not be what Kishimoto intends to do.