418 replies to this topic

[melovechoco]

Ohh..the feels for this chapter...cant wait for the next chapter which is 666....hmmm...DEMON RELATED POWER/PERSON INCOMING!!beware....

[James S Cassidy]

@James S. Cassidy:

And I will always say while Sasuke is officially "indifferent" to Sakura again right now, his relationship with Naruto is far more complex. Some part of Sasuke cares about Naruto in Part 2 and always has, but then there's a part that hates him too (He prefers to show the latter). You can't really label Sasuke's feelings for Naruto like it's black-and-white because it just isn't.

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/639/18
http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/639/19

^^^^
Apparently, Sasuke sees these bonds in black-and-white cause he seems to want to end Naruto's and Sakura's bonds all the while maintaining the ones he has with Karin, Juugo, and Suigetsu.


 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 23 February 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/639/18
http://www.mangapand...m/naruto/639/19

^^^^
Apparently, Sasuke sees these bonds in black-and-white cause he seems to want to end Naruto's and Sakura's bonds all the while maintaining the ones he has with Karin, Juugo, and Suigetsu.

I have no idea of what Sasuke is planning though.
We dont even know about what he really wants, better to wait before jumping off to conclusions and it's not black and white.

[James S Cassidy]

I have no idea of what Sasuke is planning though.
We dont even know about what he really wants, better to wait before jumping off to conclusions and it's not black and white.

Or is it because you guys refuse to accept that Sasuke sees in black and white?

That seems to be a common thing around here.

Welcome to Heaven and Earth: "Sasuke can do no wrong."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 23 February 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Or is it because you guys refuse to accept that Sasuke sees in black and white?
That seems to be a common thing around here.

Welcome to Heaven and Earth: "Sasuke can do no wrong."

Nope it's because his current state and ideals is unclear, in one he wanted to kill Naruto but the next scene on which you didnt showed he was quite touched by Naruto's thoughts about him, and despite he wanted to kill Naruto he saved him.
Sasuke's mind is full of conflicts and he is on a state where he's still thinking about what he's going to do.

[tricksie]

Or is it because you guys refuse to accept that Sasuke sees in black and white?

That seems to be a common thing around here.

Welcome to Heaven and Earth: "Sasuke can do no wrong."

 

Wow, James. Way to bash the whole forum just because you don't agree with some posts.

 

I think Romancegirl said it best that Sasuke's beginning motivation has some relevancy now because eventually he's going to be redeemed. Like it or not. And those bonds are going to feature highly. 

 

And if Kishimoto can redeem Obito — a mass-murdering psychopath — then redeeming a kid who has killed maybe only a few, in the heat of battle, wil be no big shakes for him.

 

Maybe that should be changed to Welcome to the Naruto manga: "Sasuke can do no wrong"?

 

People on this forum are just discussing what Kishimoto is already leading with.

 

Anyway, let's get back to talking about the chapter in this thread. 

[Nate River]

@James S. Cassidy:
 
Your opinion of Sasuke in Part 1 seems overly harsh. Sasuke did care about Team 7. There were far from just a means to an end to him, especially for Naruto's case. At first, definitely. In fact, he viewed both Naruto and Sakura as people who would just slow him down and would be no help to him at all to reach his goals. He thought they were weak and that he was so much better than both of them. (It's ironic how this is still Sasuke's problem in Part 2; his arrogance)
 
If Sasuke only saw them as a means to a goal, then he wouldn't of nearly died for Naruto from Haku. That was easily one of Sasuke's rare selfless moments. He gave up his dream to kill Itachi just because Naruto would live and he accepted it. And he protected Sakura a few times too and even said he didn't want to see his comrades dying right in front of him again. In that moment, he specifically put T7 on par with his deceased family. They were all family to him, even if he showed in a rude and indifferent way at times.   (That's kinda why I've always seen SasuSaku as unlikely. Sasuke probably viewed Sakura more as a sister than a love interest. He has really messed up ideas of family, but I digress)
 
I never questioned that leaving the village hurt Sasuke far more than he showed, but it was proved in the VotE it was losing Naruto's bond that hurt him the most. He tried killing him and repeatedly talked down on him, but in the end he couldn't kill Naruto to gain power like Itachi had. What's most interesting is that the moment he said it was too late for him to turn back to T7, he awakened the 3rd tomoe in his Sharingan. Doesn't that only happen under severe pain and mental stress? That's how Uchihas get stronger, right?
 
I know Sasuke's not who he was in Part 1 and never will be completely, but we all know he will get redeemed so that's why talking about "good" Sasuke is a little relevant. Though there's not much a question for me that all the darkness Sasuke has gone through in  just four years, he will never be same even when he's "good" and cares about T7 like before.
 
And I will always say while Sasuke is officially "indifferent" to Sakura again right now, his relationship with Naruto is far more complex. Some part of Sasuke cares about Naruto in Part 2 and always has, but then there's a part that hates him too (He prefers to show the latter). You can't really label Sasuke's feelings for Naruto like it's black-and-white because it just isn't.

I'd add that Sasuke doesn't need to kill Naruto to prove the bond is dead, if the bond means nothing to him. If Naruto is a means to an end then things like that make no sense.
 

^^^^
Apparently, Sasuke sees these bonds in black-and-white cause he seems to want to end Naruto's and Sakura's bonds all the while maintaining the ones he has with Karin, Juugo, and Suigetsu.

One of the many reasons Team Not Seven makes no sense. Still, I think those manga links you have cut against you own argument. Cutting-off the bond like that suggest there was something there. If he is just a means to an end, again, how hard would it have been to discard them without second thought? Kishimoto has gone to significant efforts to have Sasuke say, think, and do things like that because the bond does matter and there was something there.

And there will be in the end as well. Like it or hate it, Sasuke will be redeemed. It's well past being an "if" question.
 

And if Kishimoto can redeem Obito — a mass-murdering psychopath — then redeeming a kid who has killed maybe only a few, in the heat of battle, wil be no big shakes for him.

I don't know that I'd call it redemption. What Obito is doing now is more like the least he could do since he's a big reason they are in this mess. This is what he OWES them. Besides, redemption took place when he flipped earlier. He already tried Gedo Mazo, that he failed wasn't his fault (about the only thing that's not). This is Kishimoto's post-hoc attempt to show that it was the right decision. It's the justification; the sell job to head off the "I can't believe this BS" complaints.

Redemption in the series is rarely, if ever, treated as something earned. It's always been done as an act of mercy or a principled stand for a greater objective, but that doesn't mean he can get away with no selling it to his audience.
 

Welcome to Heaven and Earth: "Sasuke can do no wrong."

A caricature with no basis in anything. It's interesting that Obito's biggest fan would reach for this.

[TouKen4Life3g]

So...666....cameo call in? All dark moments in the chapter? Or just superstitions?

[Nate River]

Would 666 have any meaning to Kishimoto?

[FireFox]

Oh okay, then I have nothing to argue against you since we're talking about different things (or are we?)

Imo, SS isn't dead because Sasuke has always been evil/uncaring/ass towards her, because he wasn't (at least in part one). SS is dead now mostly because Naruto has become a more important person to Sakura(whether romantically or not) than Sasuke is.

More then often he was and that's a fact or does everyone here forgot when he told her to shut up and stay out of his business , squeezing her hand tightly  making her cry , putting a burden to her not even care about how she feels about that , putting her down more than once or slamming her hand and those apples when Sakura was being nice to him worry about him and didn't actually fangirled over him , and most of the time he didn't even bother to talk to her and this comes right from Sakura's own mouth  how can a relationship even exist or be formed when these two individuals don't even interact ? apparently SS didn't had any kind of a special bond and based on this i can hardly say that they were even a teammates to begin with since even teammates do interact with each other on some level , and if i add to this all the negativity that SS has in P1 what does this makes out of SS a paring with an actual foundation ? Certainly not . Not to mention that Sakura wasn't even able to show her true personality around him she was very submissive and at times afraid of him and Sasuke was very much indifferent toward her . And no SS isn't dead because Naruto has become the most precious person to Sakura that has little to none on way SS is dead , it's the negativity that surrounds SS that destroys any chance of them as a "parring" and Kishi has being showing that through P1 not to mention P2 (this comes as bonus)  . But i guess for some people here it's enough to say that they actually have a chance just "BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM" , 

[TouKen4Life3g]

Would 666 have any meaning to Kishimoto?

Which still points to the questions I just said. But I think it won't have any meaning in terms of his work. Not going to be like, "I'm working on Friday the 13th? Well, time to have Naruto the worst day ever."

[TyranntX]

Ohh..the feels for this chapter...cant wait for the next chapter which is 666....hmmm...DEMON RELATED POWER/PERSON INCOMING!!beware....

 Already made that joke.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

More then often he was and that's a fact or does everyone here forgot when he told her to shut up and stay out of his business , squeezing her hand tightly  making her cry , putting a burden to her not even care about how she feels about that , putting her down more than once or slamming her hand and those apples when Sakura was being nice to him worry about him and didn't actually fangirled over him , and most of the time he didn't even bother to talk to her and this comes right from Sakura's own mouth  how can a relationship even exist or be formed when these two individuals don't even interact ? apparently SS didn't had any kind of a special bond and based on this i can hardly say that they were even a teammates to begin with since even teammates do interact with each other on some level , and if i add to this all the negativity that SS has in P1 what does this makes out of SS a paring with an actual foundation ? Certainly not . Not to mention that Sakura wasn't even able to show her true personality around him she was very submissive and at times afraid of him and Sasuke was very much indifferent toward her . And no SS isn't dead because Naruto has become the most precious person to Sakura that has little to none on way SS is dead , it's the negativity that surrounds SS that destroys any chance of them as a "parring" and Kishi has being showing that through P1 not to mention P2 (this comes as bonus)  . But i guess for some people here it's enough to say that they actually have a chance just "BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM" , 

 

I'm not trying to play Sasuke's advocate here -- there's definitely no love lost where he's concerned -- but I think that interpretation is perhaps overly harsh. Sasuke was still twelve/thirteen years old then and mentally and emotionally immature no matter how you try to slice it, not to mention he was dealing with a lot of trauma and conflict. Now, that doesn't make his behavior towards Sakura okay, not at all. He was prone to letting anger and irritation dictate his actions, and he was just plain immature, like anyone at that age. And just like Naruto and Sakura were in part one. They were all kids living in an adult world and holding their behavior against them when they were so young doesn't seem fair.

 

I'm not saying this gives SasuSaku a foundation as a pairing because as it stands, SS has very little to hold on to and it's entire basis relies on Sakura's feelings, which is a shaky foundation to build on at best. And so long as Sasuke continues with his indifference, it has no chance to progress.

 

I very much disagree with the bolded. SasuSaku won't be "dead" until Sakura's unresolved feeling are officially and conclusively addressed. Until that happens, that small, fragile foundation will still exist. Naruto becoming Sakura's most precious person is the exact reason SS is more or less dead. Think for a moment if none of the NaruSaku development -- the moments that suggest growing romantic feelings on Sakura's part -- ever happened. Imagine if it were all just portrayed as a really good friendship. SasuSaku's chances would look much better now, wouldn't they? Sakura said it herself in her confession; she has grown away from Sasuke and closer to Naruto. As her feelings for Naruto grow stronger and more profound, her feelings for Sasuke continue to fade. But they are still there, even if thinking about Sasuke hurts her and makes her sad, she hasn't yet reached the point of letting go.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 23 February 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[ramenanmitsu]

More then often he was and that's a fact or does everyone here forgot when he told her to shut up and stay out of his business , squeezing her hand tightly  making her cry , putting a burden to her not even care about how she feels about that , putting her down more than once or slamming her hand and those apples when Sakura was being nice to him worry about him and didn't actually fangirled over him , and most of the time he didn't even bother to talk to her and this comes right from Sakura's own mouth  how can a relationship even exist or be formed when these two individuals don't even interact ? apparently SS didn't had any kind of a special bond and based on this i can hardly say that they were even a teammates to begin with since even teammates do interact with each other on some level , and if i add to this all the negativity that SS has in P1 what does this makes out of SS a paring with an actual foundation ? Certainly not . Not to mention that Sakura wasn't even able to show her true personality around him she was very submissive and at times afraid of him and Sasuke was very much indifferent toward her . And no SS isn't dead because Naruto has become the most precious person to Sakura that has little to none on way SS is dead , it's the negativity that surrounds SS that destroys any chance of them as a "parring" and Kishi has being showing that through P1 not to mention P2 (this comes as bonus)  . But i guess for some people here it's enough to say that they actually have a chance just "BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM" , 

Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear enough or either you're focusing too much on trying to prove how much SasuSaku sucks that you are missing my point. You're playing on repeat again and again how much Sasuke was a jerk and how bad SasuSaku is.

I know and I don't care!

I didn't say that Sasuke was NEVER a jerk to Sakura. I'm fully aware that he has his bad moments. No need to repeat how much of an ass he was like a broken record. I get it okay!? My whole point was that he had his good moments as well as his bad moments.

There is negativity surrounding all Sasuke relationships. The thing is, he is going to get redeemed whether you like it or not. If Naruto is going to forgive Sasuke and act like BFF, it's most likely that all other relationships with Sasuke will be restored. Previous negative interactions don't matter much in the Naruto universe, when Naruto forgives enemies that tried to kill him left and right everyday. And just because I'm saying this doesn't mean I believe SasuSaku will happen. So you can save yourself the rinse and repeating of how much Sasuke is a jerk and SasuSaku sucks because I get it already.

[FireFox]

 

I'm not trying to play Sasuke's advocate here -- there's definitely no love lost where he's concerned -- but I think that interpretation is perhaps overly harsh. Sasuke was still twelve/thirteen years old then and mentally immature no matter how you try to slice it, not to mention he was dealing with a lot of trauma and conflict. Now, that doesn't make his behavior towards Sakura okay, not at all; he acted immaturely, just like Naruto and Sakura so often did in part one. They were all kids living in an adult world and holding their behavior against them when they were so young doesn't seem fair.

 

I'm not saying this gives SasuSaku a foundation as a pairing because as it stands, SS has very little to hold on to and it's entire basis relies on Sakura's feelings, which is a shaky foundation to build on at best. And so long as Sasuke continues with his indifference, it has no chance to progress.

 

I very much disagree with the bolded. SasuSaku won't be "dead" until Sakura's unresolved feeling are officially and conclusively addressed. Until that happens, that small, fragile foundation will still exist. Naruto becoming Sakura's most precious person is the exact reason SS is more or less dead. Think for a moment if none of the NaruSaku development -- the moments that suggest growing romantic feelings on Sakura's part -- ever happened. Imagine if it were all just portrayed as a really good friendship. SasuSauke chances would look much better now, wouldn't they? Sakura said it herself in her confession; she has grown away from Sasuke and closer to Naruto. As her feelings for Naruto grow stronger and more profound, her feelings for Sasuke continue to fade. But they are still there, even if thinking about Sasuke hurts her and makes her sad, she hasn't yet reached the point of letting g    

 

There is no excuse for what he did to Sakura i don't care how old he was she is a human being with feelings she's not his punch bag how would you feel if someone did that you  , what about the trauma he put Sakura went through was that not overly harsh to her just because kitten happened to him doesn't give him the right to treat everyone like kitten , he's not the only one with traumas in the series you know , i'm sick of the excuses for Sasuke that are put in here , and please don't even compare Sakura's and Naruto's immature behavior with that of Sasuke's just don't he didn't even apologize for what he did to her . And really just because he was 12/13 it's not fair to hold that against him , i judge him as a person and as a human being and  heck his even worse now so should i also overlook what he has done just because he's a teenage boy now ? If he showed remorse for what he did maybe i wouldn't but he didn't  he knew what he did and still didn't care  the end .

 

One's feelings doesn't set an foundation for a paring it's the interactions between two individuals that does that and SS has none of that .

 

Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear enough or either you're focusing too much on trying to prove how much SasuSaku sucks that you are missing my point. You're playing on repeat again and again how much Sasuke was a jerk and how bad SasuSaku is.

I know and I don't care!

I didn't say that Sasuke was NEVER a jerk to Sakura. I'm fully aware that he has his bad moments. No need to repeat how much of an ass he was like a broken record. I get it okay!? My whole point was that he had his good moments as well as his bad moments.

There is negativity surrounding all Sasuke relationships. The thing is, he is going to get redeemed whether you like it or not. If Naruto is going to forgive Sasuke and act like BFF, it's most likely that all other relationships with Sasuke will be restored. Previous negative interactions don't matter much in the Naruto universe, when Naruto forgives enemies that tried to kill him left and right everyday. And just because I'm saying this doesn't mean I believe SasuSaku will happen. So you can save yourself the rinse and repeating of how much Sasuke is a jerk and SasuSaku sucks because I get it already.

 

Glad you do understand the SS part .   

 

When did I in any of my posts said anything about his redemption please tell me ? It was you who tried do defend him from me saying he was an ASS i don't care for his redemption cus i know it's gonna happen whether i like it or not , what i do have problem with is almost everyone here give saint Sasuke a free pass for everything he did or make excuses for him just because kitten happen to him , just like so many others characters in this series but do they get the Sasuke treatment NO they are called on their BS even Minato is more bashed in here and for totally idiotic reasons . But what ever i'm done with this .    

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 23 February 2014 - 06:46 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

When did I in any of my posts said anything about his redemption please tell me ? It was you who tried do defend him from me saying he was an ASS i don't care for his redemption cus i know it's gonna happen whether i like it or not, what i do have problem with is almost everyone here give saint Sasuke a free pass for everything he did or make excuses for him just because kitten happen to him , just like so many others characters in this series but do they get the Sasuke treatment NO they are called on their BS even Minato is more bashed in here and for totally idiotic reasons . But what ever i'm done with this .

You're contradicting yourself, i'm not ramenanimtsu but Sasuke got a free pass from Kishi and not us which is why a lot of people hate his character because it's a proof like Kishi doesnt know what to do with.
And since he's going to be redeemed he will have the "free pass" either if you like or not and his relationships will be restored and this also includes Sakura we are not suggesting SS will happen or not but on the aundience eyes it will still be bad like me and ramenimtsu pointed out.
About Sasuke not being bashed is the fact his character just dont make sense anymore and there's no reason to talk bad about a bad character on which the author doesnt try to enforce it.

All Sasuke crimes are credited to feelings or even his bloodline, with the recent "Uchiha's curse" on which "proves" that the Uchihas are more suscetible of being criminals and murders because of their heritage.
And there's Naruto pardoning him everywhere, to a point he went to chat with the raikage asking to drop Sasuke's killing request despite being aware of the fact he attacked the Hidden Cloud Village, killed their shinobis and captured a jinchuuriki and still he went to ask the Raikage to forgive Sasuke, when he could not even forgive Pain about the things he did on his village.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 23 February 2014 - 06:51 PM.

[FireFox]

You're contradicting yourself, i'm not ramenanimtsu but Sasuke got a free pass from Kishi and not us which is why a lot of people hate his character because it's a proof like Kishi doesnt know what to do with.
And since he's going to be redeemed he will have the "free pass" either if you like or not and his relationships will be restored and this also includes Sakura we are not suggesting SS will happen or not but on the aundience eyes it will still be bad like me and ramenimtsu pointed out.
About Sasuke not being bashed is the fact his character just dont make sense anymore and there's no reason to talk bad about a bad character on which the author doesnt try to enforce it.

All Sasuke crimes are credited to feelings or even his bloodline, with the recent "Uchiha's curse" on which "proves" that the Uchihas are more suscetible of being criminals and murders because of their heritage.
And there's Naruto pardoning him everywhere, to a point he went to chat with the raikage asking to drop Sasuke's killing request despite being aware of the fact he attacked the Hidden Cloud Village, killed their shinobis and captured a jinchuuriki and still he went to ask the Raikage to forgive Sasuke, when he could not even forgive Pain about the things he did on his village.

The post wasn't meant for you i don't know how did you get that conclusion i was speaking in general about that part , and are you sure no one her gave him a pass because of trauma or what not cus that's not what i saw in these last 3 or 4 pages  and i already said that i know about the redemption crap i didn't argue about that you guys were doing that with @James i already said i don't care about it and i'm done with all of this .    

Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 23 February 2014 - 07:06 PM.

[BakeNeko-Chan]

 

There is no excuse for what he did to Sakura i don't care how old he was she is a human being with feelings she's not his punch bag how would you feel if someone did that you  , what about the trauma he put Sakura went through was that not overly harsh to her just because kitten happened to him doesn't give him the right to treat everyone like kitten , he's not the only one with traumas in the series you know , i'm sick of the excuses for Sasuke that are put in here , and please don't even compare Sakura's and Naruto's immature behavior with that of Sasuke's just don't he didn't even apologize for what he did to her . And really just because he was 12/13 it's not fair to hold that against him , i judge him as a person and as a human being and  heck his even worse now so should i also overlook what he has done just because he's a teenage boy now ? If he showed remorse for what he did maybe i wouldn't but he didn't  he knew what he did and still didn't care  the end .

 

One's feelings doesn't set an foundation for a paring it's the interactions between two individuals that does that and SS has none of that .

 

 

I think you are completely misunderstanding what I was saying. I was not trying to make excuses for Sasuke's behavior, or in any way make how he acted okay. I only meant to explain that there was a reason for the way he acted, no more and no less. And please, don't, just don't even try to make this personal -- I happen to have a pretty good idea of exactly what it's like to be treated like crap so don't you even go there. 

 

I'm not even going to bother with the rest because it's clear this is not going to go anywhere and that you'll only end up putting words in my mouth that I never said.

Edited by BakeNeko-Chan, 23 February 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[redragon88]

Would 666 have any meaning to Kishimoto?

 

His brother created a manga called 666 Satan. Maybe he could make a color spread with a reference to that.

Edited by redragon88, 23 February 2014 - 08:12 PM.

[T XD]

So...666....cameo call in? All dark moments in the chapter? Or just superstitions?

Madara will reveal to be a demon all along