310 replies to this topic

[T XD]

I think Sasuke won't just stand in the middle of the fight watching the others. He'll still fight, or else he should go out and stand aside from the middle of the heated battle... Which I'm sure that not going to happen.

 

Ninjustu performer or not, I think he'll still do something.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Personally I think Sasuke has gotten way too much spotlight. I'm usually neutral to him, and I don't dislike him. I'm just tired of him, that's all.

 

Sasuke has genjutsu, I wonder if that will work on Obito. It would be Sharingan vs Sharingan, but Obito only has one. He also has Susanoo and Amaterasu, that's not ninjutsu is it? Sasuke only has the fire release, he's a well rounded ninja. I'm sure he could do something, it makes sense to me.

 

I either want a new Sannin fight, or Naruto and Sakura to team up. I don't really mind as long as Sakura releases her seal and joins in! :)

I dont dislike his character i just dislike Kishi's approach to him, sometimes he makes Sasuke feels more important than Naruto.

Example, when they hit the juubi when Sasuke got a bigger spotlight than Naruto, the whole "Wind makes the Fire strong" and those stuff.

[Atheck]

I think a lot of clans are just descendants of Rikudou, so it's possible that everything just get a small trait from him. It's just Uchiha and Senju are the first branch of descendants. Are you that fixated on Hyuuga? Madara even has a chance to comment,

No, but your presumption isn't misplaced entirely. The information provided by the theorist did seem to imply that a layer of historical and genetic relation may exist. Even Madara himself is limited to what information he could decipher from the tablets. He has no psychic abilities to analyse the past and recount what information he inherited.

It appears that none of the contents on the tablet shed any light as to the specific nature or history of the Sage. Only his intentions for the two siblings remained.
 

but he didn't and he read the hidden scripture. I can't say 100% that Hyuuga has nothing on it, but going by manga, it's telling me that. Kishi is being forward as he can be with this, but doing twist is not going to change anything. Just wait and see.

You understand that just because a plot concept is left unattended or not referenced doesn't mean that it will never be reinforced in the future. The Uzumaki Clan symbol which was peculiarly on the body armour of almost every standard military outfit in Konoha is a perfect example of devices having gone unacknowledged for the majority of the manga only to make a resurgence when the time is necessary for an exposition.

Not that this will be the fate of the Hyuga. But it does lend greater perspective on a manga where coincidence is rare and underlying truths plague these pages like a disease.
 

Well his inspiration was in creating symbols and names for some abilities but it's his decision how he comes to the conclusion that all those began from the Sage.
 
It could be similar to when a work of fiction starts to use symbols from either christianity, judaism, islamism and European mythology but when the story decides to tie up all thos symbols then it's pure fiction.

Symbolism is one thing, but Kishi is so reliant on mythology and spiritualism for inspiration that entire subplots, character fighting styles, and developments can be deduced if you peruse the Internet for the proper information concerning this religious notion or mythological creature. Do you need me to describe the numerous instances where this has occurred? You did read my own theory that certain arcs in the manga were in fact inspired by Japanese folktales, correct?

Furthermore, given what information was offered of the Onmyodo, it's quite obvious that any symbols, creatures, or legendary occurrences are thoroughly integrated into the manga. Perhaps the most notable example of this is Itachi who represents the Yatagarasu.
 

What I'm saying is that it could be the same for Kishi. Maybe some other elements of either Taoism/Shintoism/Buddhism can appear regarding the Sage but we can't predict or assume anything.

 
Did I ever state that these theories were 100% accurate? No, of course not. In fact, I've personally discredited certain portions of them myself. But the consistency of certain details such as the Uzumaki being closely related to Shinigami, a trait notable of onmyoji, is apparent. That and Kishi's stylisation of the Hyuga to embody certain spiritual ideals just like the Senju and Uchiha; not that they're of equal significance, mind you. Technically Hidan is the same way but he isn't of any importance to the overarching plot.
 

Kishi named an ability that nullifies Ninjutsu Yin Yang but it feels the complete oposite to what happened with other instances of yin and yang. Madara suggested that peace can be accomplished when those 2 are reunited, Kyuubi right now it's split into yin Kyuubi and yang Kyuubi and Obito is using Yin and yang to nullify any ninjutsu. Also the sage when creating the beasts he used yin and yang ability.
 
It's possibile that the sage and anyone reaching his level (Obito) can use this yin and yang abilities just like Nagato could use the Rinnegan or Sasuke/Madara/Itachi the Mangekyo Sharingan.

Well of course, their Sharingan is a degraded mutation of the Rinnegan. I did note the inconsistency in the theorist's argument that its power could be achieved through "enlightenment" alone. Although he used that term when addressing the possible origins of the Rinnegan, not how it's achieved by descendants.

Yin-Yang Release has always been touted as being the pinnacle of shinobi capability. Thus far only two people have actually been able to use its techniques in any worthwhile capacity. I suspect that may change in the future when/if more information becomes available of the Sage who remains as just an obscured figure of legend for the time being.

What's interesting is that if you examine the panel of the Sage's effigy in chapter #606, page 14, you can make out four spiraling symbols that are reminiscent of the Uzumaki Clan. It could just be a coincidence, but I thought that might interest you to look over.

Edited by Atheck, 15 August 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

So what kind of secret do you want to expose?

[Atheck]

So what kind of secret do you want to expose?

Were you referring to me or someone else?

[TouKen4Life3g]

You

[Atheck]

You

I want Kishi to explore the Sage's background in depth. What his childhood was like, who or what clan he hails from, how he acquired his abilities, and specifics of his quest to becoming the creator of all ninjutsu. Was the era he lived in one of chaos or order? Maybe it was just the primeval beginnings of clans and wars on the continent. That's what I'm hoping Kishi will delve into.

Learning more about the Byakugan and by extension the Hyuga's origins would be interesting as well. But it isn't as important as the Sage's history.

[rocci]

If sharingan come from rinnegan, I believe that byakugan come from sharingan.
What if in the ancient time there's ms user who overuse it's power than become blind, when ms user become blind, their eye turn to white.
Just like itachi. Now what if by connecting those chakra "cable" they gain the ability to see better than sharingan but loose the advantage of sharingan. No wonder most hyuga member has black hair.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

If sharingan come from rinnegan, I believe that byakugan come from sharingan.
What if in the ancient time there's ms user who overuse it's power than become blind, when ms user become blind, their eye turn to white.
Just like itachi. Now what if by connecting those chakra "cable" they gain the ability to see better than sharingan but loose the advantage of sharingan. No wonder most hyuga member has black hair.

But doesnt resemble an uchiha in any way.

[Strangelove]

Personally I think Sasuke has gotten way too much spotlight. I'm usually neutral to him, and I don't dislike him. I'm just tired of him, that's all.

 

Sasuke has genjutsu, I wonder if that will work on Obito. It would be Sharingan vs Sharingan, but Obito only has one. He also has Susanoo and Amaterasu, that's not ninjutsu is it? Sasuke only has the fire release, he's a well rounded ninja. I'm sure he could do something, it makes sense to me.

 

I either want a new Sannin fight, or Naruto and Sakura to team up. I don't really mind as long as Sakura releases her seal and joins in! :)

 

Unless Sakura has senjutsu...otherwise it is pointless. Same with Sasuke, unless he has some form of senjutsu then there is nothing he can do.

[LivinG_Dead]

 

Unless Sakura has senjutsu...otherwise it is pointless. Same with Sasuke, unless he has some form of senjutsu then there is nothing he can do.

Well Sasuke has Kirin which uses nature's lightning energy, maybe it will work on Jubito.

Edited by LivinG_Dead, 16 August 2013 - 04:42 AM.

[Atheck]

 

Unless Sakura has senjutsu...otherwise it is pointless. Same with Sasuke, unless he has some form of senjutsu then there is nothing he can do.

 

Juugo transferred a portion of his senjutsu chakra to draw out the Zetsu spores that were on Sasuke in #618. It's possible that he might have reacquired the Cursed Seal during that exchange. If so, all Sasuke needs to do is activate it and all of his techniques should have sage chakra infused. It's not even remotely close to the level of ability that Naruto has, but it would give Sasuke a means to continue fighting with this vulnerability of Tobi's having been discovered. 

[Kster95]

Well Sasuke has Kirin which uses nature's lightning energy, maybe it will work on Jubito.

 

Oh yeah nice catch, I am sure it would work as its not ninjustu. I think it would take some time to get ready though as he needs the clouds.

Edited by Kster95, 16 August 2013 - 04:44 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

Juugo transferred a portion of his senjutsu chakra to draw out the Zetsu spores that were on Sasuke in #618. It's possible that he might have reacquired the Cursed Seal during that exchange. If so, all Sasuke needs to do is activate it and all of his techniques should have sage chakra infused. It's not even remotely close to the level of ability that Naruto has, but it would give Sasuke a means to continue fighting with this vulnerability of Tobi's having been discovered. 

Possible though the one about element seems plausible. I don't know, let's see what's next. I can't say if he did get curse seal back. I think it would have shown that the seal is back on his neck area. That and doesn't Orochimaru himself got to do it. I don't know. My guess is that he will use Susanoo (worth a shot).

[Atheck]

Possible though the one about element seems plausible. I don't know, let's see what's next. I can't say if he did get curse seal back. I think it would have shown that the seal is back on his neck area. That and doesn't Orochimaru himself got to do it. I don't know. My guess is that he will use Susanoo (worth a shot).

If he doesn't have it already then Juugo will likely intervene to equip him with one. Even if that means sacrificing his own power. Sasuke's life takes precedence over anything else in that man's mind.

[TouKen4Life3g]

If he doesn't have it already then Juugo will likely intervene to equip him with one. Even if that means sacrificing his own power. Sasuke's life takes precedence over anything else in that man's mind.

Funny, because that would go against the part of Itachi's task back in their fight. He did want to remove Orochimaru's seal from Sasuke. Isn't that betraying? Oh well, we'll see where Sasuke stands at the moment. I always feel that he didn't need it anymore since it felt like he upgraded to fully Uchiha ninja Sasuke (Sharingan user). Plus that seal is nowhere near the same Sage mode. But who knows, still think Susanoo could do something.

[Atheck]

Funny, because that would go against the part of Itachi's task back in their fight. He did want to remove Orochimaru's seal from Sasuke.Isn't that betraying?

You could argue that Sasuke desecrating Itachi's corpse and having his eyes implanted is an act of betrayal. Is that acting any at all like a moral blockade to the younger brother constantly exploiting the benefits from his newly formed doujutsu? No, and Sasuke using sage chakra to stop the greatest imperilment of Konoha shouldn't be either. It's not as if the Curse Seal is inherently connected to Orochimaru no matter how it's embedded or by whom. That connection doesn't normally exist.

If Juugo were to give Sasuke that seal, it should be completely free of Orochimaru's influence since it was thanks in part to the senjutsu chakra he injected into the seal as it was being implanted that caused Orochimaru's influence to be projected onto someone. Natural energy is neutral by itself, it's how the user manipulates it and what their intentions are that defines the morality of what it will become. The only thing Sasuke would need to be concerned about is his personality becoming overwhelmed by the intensity of the chakra. Although I think he already overcame that drawback when he was training with Orochimaru.
 

I always feel that he didn't need it anymore since it felt like he upgraded to fully Uchiha ninja Sasuke (Sharingan user).

Sasuke's relation to the Curse Seal and his compatibility with it have been brought up twice now since it was removed by Susanoo. Kishi doesn't normally create these links without an ulterior plot concept intended. Besides, Sasuke's status as the "main attraction" of the fight was already reinforced in #641. You don't really think Kishi would discard that proclamation so quickly, do you? He needs a way to fight Tobi because it's obvious that Sasuke isn't going anywhere.

The pieces of the puzzle have already been laid out. All that needs to be done is for Sasuke to achieve his own means of fighting this enemy.
 

Plus that seal is nowhere near the same Sage mode. But who knows, still think Susanoo could do something.

Does it really matter if the Curse Seal is just a bootleg knockoff of Sage Mode? They're fighting in a battle that will decide the fate of the entire world. Anything that can damage Tobi should be usable for Naruto and Sasuke. It's not like Sasuke's senjutsu would be too inferior to make a difference. Honestly, I would vouch for Sasuke's sage empowered Amaterasu or Susanoo arrows having greater impact than Naruto's Rasengan. FRS is a different matter altogether though.

Edited by Atheck, 16 August 2013 - 05:37 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

It will be funny that none of this even happen. I feel like it could very well just forward to Obito getting tired of Naruto. I mean the cliffhanger seems like it will be more focus on Dark Kyuubi if anything. I can picture just have Naruto shine for a short moment before Obito decided to change it up. Nothing stays forever. Remember, this "senjutsu" solution started just now, so who is to say it will stay that way. It could be one moment where it's only the solution for this moment. It's like a video game, switch your strategy until entering the next stage of boss. But who knows, we can very well be wrong altogether. Heck, he can summon snake again to help out. I don't know, something will happen that is beyond our prediction. That's why I don't predict anymore.

[Atheck]

It will be funny that none of this even happen.

Funny to you perhaps for whatever reason that exists in your mind that you would interpret previously established details laid out in the manga not having any later consequences or role in the store.
 

I feel like it could very well just forward to Obito getting tired of Naruto.

Very unlikely. Kishi does occasionally continue fights off-panel, but not ones of this scale and importance. If anything is skipped then it will be an inconsequential exchange here or there. Naruto desperately trying to connect any additional attacks whilst Tobi inevitably is doing everything in his power to prevent himself from being damaged again doesn't sound trivial to me personally.
 

I mean the cliffhanger seems like it will be more focus on Dark Kyuubi if anything.

We don't even know if there will be any more interactions between Minato and Yin Kurama next chapter. That could be withheld for a later date or even a flashback. Senjutsu's role in this fight will not just be handwaved and relegated to off-screen obscurity.
 

I can picture just have Naruto shine for a short moment before Obito decided to change it up. Nothing stays forever.

Unless Tobi's immunity to ninjutsu is removed for some reason in the final evolutionary stage of the Jubi's life cycle, the only verifiable transformation that Tobi has left, then this argument that senjutsu will become irrelevant once again just to prevent Sasuke from using it is moot.
 

Remember, this "senjutsu" solution started just now, so who is to say it will stay that way.

How can you argue that anything else would be feasible against this incarnation of the Jubi jinchuuriki? Sasuke is right now at the boundaries of what he can accomplish in this fight. Senjutsu was literally just confirmed to be a weakness pages before the ending of the latest chapter. It's unlikely that Kishi will discard so soon.
 

It could be one moment where it's only the solution for this moment.

Highly unlikely, not with Tobi's over reliance on the Sage's Yin-Yang Release and this recent ability being confirmed as a nullifier of all ninjutsu. He would have to have to been bludgeoned with the stupid stick for him not to characteristically use his new weapon to attack or defend.
 

It's like a video game, switch your strategy until entering the next stage of boss.

Only one final stage is stated to exist and there is no reason to believe Tobi will abruptly stop using Onmyoudon. If anything, it would seem more likely that all forms of nin, gen, and taijutsu would be negated with the abilities granted by this final form; despite that having no actual basis to itself besides the fact that the Sage was renowned as the greatest legend in the Naruto universe.
 

But who knows, we can very well be wrong altogether. Heck, he can summon snake again to help out.

Unlikely, Sasuke only summoned Aoda when the plot called for the Sannin parallel to be reinforced. Once the focus shifted to Tobi's resurgence as the Jubi jinchuuriki, the summonings have been returning to their native habitats one by one. The only thing that would be confirmed with the snake's conjuring is its death since Tobi is overwhelmingly powerful now.

Sasuke has and will apparently continue to use his EMS abilities for the remainder of the fight.
 

I don't know, something will happen that is beyond our prediction. That's why I don't predict anymore.

With the appropriate information, anyone can draw a logical conclusion from something. Izanami's existence is one arguable example of that since Izanagi's inception. Certain details of the plot could be speculated as well albeit nothing is conclusive until Kishi makes it so.

Edited by Atheck, 16 August 2013 - 06:12 AM.

[Dkey]

Honestly Sasuke also getting senjutsu attacks not a sage mode is very likely considering the past reveals of the curse seals. Maybe that's why juugo is there ( placed by the author) to help Sasuke use senjutsu.