19964 replies to this topic

[The Tax-Man]

What exactly is your point? They're supposed to respect his wishes to fight alone even up to and beyond the point where he is about to lose? What kind of a fool would sit on the sidelines at that point simply to fulfill his wishes? And I'm sorry, but of what, exactly, was Hinata in the way? What was she interrupting? Naruto being stapled to the ground by his feet as well as his hands? Naruto's awesome attack that he was just about to spring from his fingertips? Was he just about to blink Pain to death?

It's not selfish at all, it was perfectly appropriate, and anyone in their right mind who cares enough would do it. And let's be real here. If it was not Hinata who did that, but rather Sakura (which could have been easily arranged), there is no way in hell anyone on this board would be saying how "stupid" or "selfish" it was. Certainly, Sakura's confession wasn't "selfish," was it? I mean, Naruto didn't have anything on his plate at the time, did he? He was on vacation. And it was totally unselfish to try and take on Sasuke alone, even though Naruto would have wanted to be a part of that confrontation. Do not tell me these things can't be compared. They can, and they are. Rightfully so.

People think I'm playing the devil's advocate. I'm not. I call out BS when I see it, and that includes when it's on my side of the fence. And it seems that there is plenty to call out over here. No, it isn't an attempt to be condescending. It is a fact.

Yeah, except she DIDN'T help. Yes they definitely should have listened to him even if he looks like he's losing. It's Nagato. They should KNOW they will get their asses handed to them. The guy almost killed all the strongest ninja in the village. Even if it was Sakura, I would still call it selfish, because it was. She saw no reason and acted on pure impulse, probably because she wanted to confess before Naruto died. You've criticized Sakura for being impulsive before, and this is worse, since it was obvious from the beginning she might die. Are you seriously saying Hinata cares for naruto more than the others present there? No, she doesn't even know him outside her flawed perception of him. What she did was nothing but selfish and stupid. In the end, she didn't improve Naruto's situation at all. To be honest, she didn't affect it at all except making him a raging bull a bit faster.

[Strangelove]

It is what it is. If she had removed the spikes, then it wouldn't have been so dramatic, it wouldn't have portrayed what Kishi wanted to portray. Her reason to have been stabbed by Nagato, was for Naruto to transform, and meet his father. That was the point of the transformation.

[PachucoDesigns]

"I'm sure he would have figured something out." "She had no faith in Naruto." Oh my god. Yeah, I really need to stop participating in the "debates" here. The bias is so thick, it's like beer goggles. I can't believe people are actually incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of these characters. I can't believe people have the audacity to tell me "Oh, I would have stayed put because I believe in Naruto. I have no problem watching him about to get killed, because I know he can handle it." If he dies, everyone dies. Everyone. I don't care if you love Naruto or hate him. That is the fact. I don't care what his wishes were, I don't care if you'd call it an abandonment of faith. I am shocked that ONLY Hinata jumped into the ring. In my opinion, everyone else who could and didn't is a coward, if only for that moment. She did what they all should have done. When you're all about to die, I don't care if you know you can't win. You fight.

Only in a pairing war can self-sacrifice actually be called selfish, I swear.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 14 April 2012 - 12:13 AM.

[The Tax-Man]

It is what it is. If she had removed the spikes, then it wouldn't have been so dramatic, it wouldn't have portrayed what Kishi wanted to portray. Her reason to have been stabbed by Nagato, was for Naruto to transform, and meet his father. That was the point of the transformation.

That could've been done without her. Kishimoto could have done his favourite thing and stuck in a flashback or two, or have Naruto think of the village and then transform. Just as dramatic and a much better use of emotions and reason.

"I'm sure he would have figured something out." "She had no faith in Naruto." Oh my god. Yeah, I really need to stop participating in the "debates" here. The bias is so thick, it's like beer goggles. I can't believe people are actually incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of these characters. I can't believe people have the audacity to tell me "Oh, I would have stayed put because I believe in Naruto. I have no problem watching him about to get killed, because I know he can handle it." If he dies, everyone dies. Everyone. I don't care if you love Naruto or hate him. That is the fact. I don't care what his wishes were, I don't care if you'd call it an abandonment of faith. I am shocked that ONLY Hinata jumped into the ring. In my opinion, everyone else who could and didn't is a coward, if only for that moment. She did what they all should have done. When you're all about to die, I don't care if you know you can't win. You fight.

Only in a pairing war can self-sacrifice actually be called selfish, I swear.

Are you serious? Do you see all things that emotionally or what? Coward. Yeah, tell that to all the kids who would've died if they all jumped in the ring. And tell that to Naruto who would be dead from going full blown 9 tails, Minato or not.

A big part of this manga is faith, and they have it. They aren't Samurai with a code of Bushido. They are sensible people who know that retreat is sometimes the best choice. Naruto wasn't in nearly as much trouble as he looked then, and everyone should have been able to see that and stood back. Do you think that's what soldiers do? Rush in and get themselves killed when their air support is out? No, they retreat. It's the same situation, and no amount of emotion or love can change that. They all together wouldn't have been able to do anything. If anything, Naruto would have had to hold back on his power because they would be close to him and could die from his wide attacks.

Edited by The Tax-Man, 14 April 2012 - 12:19 AM.

[Gravenimage]

"I'm sure he would have figured something out." "She had no faith in Naruto." Oh my god. Yeah, I really need to stop participating in the "debates" here. The bias is so thick, it's like beer goggles. I can't believe people are actually incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of these characters. I can't believe people have the audacity to tell me "Oh, I would have stayed put because I believe in Naruto. I have no problem watching him about to get killed, because I know he can handle it." If he dies, everyone dies. Everyone. I don't care if you love Naruto or hate him. That is the fact. I don't care what his wishes were, I don't care if you'd call it an abandonment of faith. I am shocked that ONLY Hinata jumped into the ring. In my opinion, everyone else who could and didn't is a coward, if only for that moment. She did what they all should have done. When you're all about to die, I don't care if you know you can't win. You fight.

Only in a pairing war can self-sacrifice actually be called selfish, I swear.

Easy you're bashing the last thing we need is another thread been close.

[Dragunov]

"I'm sure he would have figured something out." "She had no faith in Naruto." Oh my god. Yeah, I really need to stop participating in the "debates" here. The bias is so thick, it's like beer goggles. I can't believe people are actually incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of these characters. I can't believe people have the audacity to tell me "Oh, I would have stayed put because I believe in Naruto. I have no problem watching him about to get killed, because I know he can handle it." If he dies, everyone dies. Everyone. I don't care if you love Naruto or hate him. That is the fact. I don't care what his wishes were, I don't care if you'd call it an abandonment of faith. I am shocked that ONLY Hinata jumped into the ring. In my opinion, everyone else who could and didn't is a coward, if only for that moment. She did what they all should have done. When you're all about to die, I don't care if you know you can't win. You fight.

Only in a pairing war can self-sacrifice actually be called selfish, I swear.

I'll agree with you. It was anything but selfish. That much is true. But it was hardly thought through. If she sacrificed herself the way she tried to do, it wouldnt have changed anything. If everyone jumped in, nothing would have change. Everyone else was either moribund, dead, or attending to the weak. While Naruto was stuck on the tracks, she stepped in and tried to stop the train head first.

[Strangelove]

I am shocked that ONLY Hinata jumped into the ring. In my opinion, everyone else who could and didn't is a coward, if only for that moment. She did what they all should have done. When you're all about to die, I don't care if you know you can't win. You fight.

Only in a pairing war can self-sacrifice actually be called selfish, I swear.

That is why I no longer call them the Konoha 11, I call them clowns. Even if they all jumped...it wouldn't have tilted the fight in they're favor. They are all to weak, and they are still too weak. Now they are all heading towards the Naruto vs Madara fight...I mean seriously, how do they function?

Edited by Strangelove, 14 April 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

"I'm sure he would have figured something out." "She had no faith in Naruto." Oh my god. Yeah, I really need to stop participating in the "debates" here. The bias is so thick, it's like beer goggles. I can't believe people are actually incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of these characters. I can't believe people have the audacity to tell me "Oh, I would have stayed put because I believe in Naruto. I have no problem watching him about to get killed, because I know he can handle it." If he dies, everyone dies. Everyone. I don't care if you love Naruto or hate him. That is the fact. I don't care what his wishes were, I don't care if you'd call it an abandonment of faith. I am shocked that ONLY Hinata jumped into the ring. In my opinion, everyone else who could and didn't is a coward, if only for that moment. She did what they all should have done. When you're all about to die, I don't care if you know you can't win. You fight.

Only in a pairing war can self-sacrifice actually be called selfish, I swear.

What a wonderful way to side step the rest of my points. You know what your problem is? You're biased towards yourself. I've been noticing it. You're so dead-set that what you say is the only truth, that nothing else is even worth taking a look at, that you condescend immensely. Don't want to participate in the debates here? Wonderful. Then don't.

Actually bother refuting my other points, then I'll bother refuting you.

[FoolishYoungling]

Guys, if your going to be offending each other, keep it personal, I don't care who is right, we are about to have the admins come in here again...

Edited by FoolishYoungling , 14 April 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[PachucoDesigns]

You're comparing Naruto, who was stapled to the ground and one well-placed kunai away from death, to an airstrike that can be seen on the horizon ready to turn a battlefield into smoldering glass crater? This isn't a matter of faith. And this is a bad analogy. You can see an airstrike coming in, you can see it won't be stopped, and you run so you don't get caught in the blast zone. That's not what they're doing here. They've sent John Rambo into a battlefield on a solo mission to dismantle a nuclear bomb, and when he's caught by enemy patrols with a knife to his throat and a rifle to his temple, they're standing back on the hopes that he'll go all "Rambo" and win the day without them.

Oh man, this is foolishness. I don't have the patience for this. Have fun with your debate guys, if you insist on calling it that.

[CloudMountainJuror]

You're comparing Naruto, who was stapled to the ground and one well-placed kunai away from death, to an airstrike that can be seen on the horizon ready to turn a battlefield into smoldering glass crater? This isn't a matter of faith. And this is a bad analogy. You can see an airstrike coming in, you can see it won't be stopped, and you run so you don't get caught in the blast zone. That's not what they're doing here. They've sent John Rambo into a battlefield on a solo mission to dismantle a nuclear bomb, and when he's caught by enemy patrols with a knife to his throat and a rifle to his temple, they're standing back on the hopes that he'll go all "Rambo" and win the day without them.

Oh man, this is foolishness. I don't have the patience for this. Have fun with your debate guys, if you insist on calling it that.

You don't have the patience for anyone but yourself. Have fun with bathing in your own amazingness, buddy. We all know that you will.

[Dragunov]

People, for Christ's sake, stop antagonizing each other. Keep this kitten clean, or take it outside.

[CloudMountainJuror]

People, for Christ's sake, stop antagonizing each other. Keep this kitten clean, or take it outside.

Fine.

[Anguyen92]

Oh man, this is foolishness. I don't have the patience for this. Have fun with your debate guys, if you insist on calling it that.

All right then, adios mate. Well, then, I think I can conclude that, at times in the moment, that both Hinata and Sakura has made not the best of decisions that did not make the situation better, and I, sometimes, question their thought process in it and that. did they think that the decisions that they made were really positive value/benefits to themselves and Naruto?

Edited by Anguyen92, 14 April 2012 - 12:31 AM.

[FoolishYoungling]

Anyone got a new topic to change the subject? I'm empty still...

[The Tax-Man]

You're comparing Naruto, who was stapled to the ground and one well-placed kunai away from death, to an airstrike that can be seen on the horizon ready to turn a battlefield into smoldering glass crater? This isn't a matter of faith. And this is a bad analogy. You can see an airstrike coming in, you can see it won't be stopped, and you run so you don't get caught in the blast zone. That's not what they're doing here. They've sent John Rambo into a battlefield on a solo mission to dismantle a nuclear bomb, and when he's caught by enemy patrols with a knife to his throat and a rifle to his temple, they're standing back on the hopes that he'll go all "Rambo" and win the day without them.

Oh man, this is foolishness. I don't have the patience for this. Have fun with your debate guys, if you insist on calling it that.

Wow. Nice. Again, Naruto was NOT in trouble (at least not as much as it seemed), They had other things to take care of and it was kittening WAR. Do you even get my analogy? What I said was that you don't rush in blindly if you don't have air support for the meantime. You retreat and trust the others who, and I repeat, actually have a chance at doing something and not make them hold back their strongest attacks or cloud their judgement by making them see utter bloodshed of their friends. Have you been to war? No? Exactly. It's easy to be all cheesy and emotional in a chair in a warm house, it's a completely different thing knowing the situation and knowing the world will be gone if you make one mistake. And yes, Hinata made a BIG mistake.

You don't want to debate? Don't. At least try to create honest arguments instead of coming blindly and asking dishonestly formulated questions to make yourself seem so smart. I've been there, and I can tell you that we're not fools. I can see your shots coming from a mile away.

All right then, adios mate. Well, then, I think I can conclude that, at times in the moment, that both Hinata and Sakura has made not the best of decisions that did not make the situation better, and I sometimes question that the decisions that they made were really positive value/benefits to themselves and Naruto.

This, man, this.

Edited by The Tax-Man, 14 April 2012 - 12:35 AM.

[Don-kun]

"I'm sure he would have figured something out." "She had no faith in Naruto." Oh my god. Yeah, I really need to stop participating in the "debates" here. The bias is so thick, it's like beer goggles. I can't believe people are actually incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of these characters. I can't believe people have the audacity to tell me "Oh, I would have stayed put because I believe in Naruto. I have no problem watching him about to get killed, because I know he can handle it." If he dies, everyone dies. Everyone. I don't care if you love Naruto or hate him. That is the fact. I don't care what his wishes were, I don't care if you'd call it an abandonment of faith. I am shocked that ONLY Hinata jumped into the ring. In my opinion, everyone else who could and didn't is a coward, if only for that moment. She did what they all should have done. When you're all about to die, I don't care if you know you can't win. You fight.

Only in a pairing war can self-sacrifice actually be called selfish, I swear.

Again PachucoDesign:
You calling out NS fans, it may be bias by NS fans, But if I'm not wrong Hinata her self say that her reason was selfish, and if you want to help someone you just help them, what Hinata did was confess her admiration to Naruto expline him why she love him then get her self kill, that's not what she have in mind but that is what she did, so now show me with Manga panel chapter 437 were I'm been bias here.

I ask you to show me were in chapter 437 what I saying is bias, we can interpret what she did was an heroic act, but what she really did was very different to how one can interprets it, I ask you to show me in manga panels if anything I'm saying here is a lie.

Edited by donjoseph19, 14 April 2012 - 12:42 AM.

[Strangelove]

You're comparing Naruto, who was stapled to the ground and one well-placed kunai away from death, to an airstrike that can be seen on the horizon ready to turn a battlefield into smoldering glass crater? This isn't a matter of faith. And this is a bad analogy. You can see an airstrike coming in, you can see it won't be stopped, and you run so you don't get caught in the blast zone. That's not what they're doing here. They've sent John Rambo into a battlefield on a solo mission to dismantle a nuclear bomb, and when he's caught by enemy patrols with a knife to his throat and a rifle to his temple, they're standing back on the hopes that he'll go all "Rambo" and win the day without them.

Oh man, this is foolishness. I don't have the patience for this. Have fun with your debate guys, if you insist on calling it that.

In this case...John Rambo sent himself, and also John Rambo didn't wanted any interference.

[Gravenimage]

Oh boy I can see this debate thread getting close again.

[Anguyen92]

Oh boy I can see this debate thread getting close again.

Then, let's keep it open then, with another topic. If only I had a good question, but I'm somewhat content on any end pairings as long as I get that Naruto and Sakura one on one conversation about everything that has happened between them in the series.

Edited by Anguyen92, 14 April 2012 - 12:40 AM.