9679 replies to this topic

[Derock]

Don't lump all of us men together...I find women are beautiful in a variety of different ways. Personally, I don't find Hinata attractive. I find her eyes to be ugly and her clothing to be completely unflattering. And I agree with you completely regarding her shyness. If someone is THAT shy they need to seek professional help(It can't be good to faint so often...Who knows what you might hit on the way down. Not to mention the blood always rushing to her head).

Agree with you! I can't stand to look at Hinata. All fans, especially in the straight male category, always mention her big boobs and always considered her as cute in the eyes. However, as I said this in another thread, Hinata looks... bad. Her eyes aren't pretty, she's a moe-type in a worse way possible in terms of character and looks. Plus, she's very not interesting. Whoopie-do she's in love/has a crush with the main character and always treat him good unlike the pink harpie.

Boring.

Well the "interaction" has been one-sided with Hinata observing Naruto from afar. Ever since Naruto saved her from those bullies(was this moment canon?) her interest was piqued. She observe Naruto all this while seeing him as a determined person and that inspired her. That feeling grew to admiration then mutated to love. Since she has been observing him from afar, Naruto wasn't part of the interaction hence the one-sided love.

That my friend WAS NOT canon. For those who came in after the Hinata confession and being stabbed by Pain episode and haven't seen it, I'll tell you what officially happen and what has not.

First off, Hinata being saved by Naruto from those bullies, was NOT in the manga. Hell, it wasn't even mentioned/acknowledged by Kishimoto that Hinata was being bullied as a child by her peers like Sakura had with her forehead. The only thing about her past is that her father Hisashi was discouraging her because of her personality and wasn't strong enough to become a ninja, unlike her young sister Hanabi. The whole entire episode was basically Pierrot "Mary-Sue"-ed Hinata towards the maximum level from extended her flashback scenes as a child with such nonsense, not to mention her looks as a child just screams "Lolicon" to her extended "desperate moments" to stop Pain from hurting her "Naruto-kun". Even the whole confession scene was very off. And I won't even talk about her so-called fight scene.

[ciardha]

Well the "interaction" has been one-sided with Hinata observing Naruto from afar. Ever since Naruto saved her from those bullies(was this moment canon?)

Nope, Pierrot stole part of Sakura's childhood and grafted it onto Hinata's. Hinata was never teased or bullied by anyone- no one would have dared outside of Neiji, who is her first cousin and Neiji doesn't do anything until they fight in the Chunnin exams. the Hyuuga were one of the two most elite families in Konoha. Plus she was the clan head's heir on top of that. Hinata made no move to make any friends and likely no one made a move to be a friend (or enemy) to her, she just kind of drifted through her Academy years. Naruto's opinion of Hinata at the opening of the Chunin exams likely reflects the age peers general opinion- "weird, shy girl" .

Sakura is the only one who even seems to have noticed Hinata (outside of Kurenai, Kiba, Shino and Neiji) before the Chunin exams, and Sakura doesn't see her as the "weird, shy girl". Sakura thoughts have a mildly positive, sympathetic vibe. And in part 2, she's the only one who bothers to speak to Hinata in an advisory manner, giving her constructive advice. I think Sakura does see herself as sort of a friend to Hinata.

[Fliss]

First off, Hinata being saved by Naruto from those bullies, was NOT in the manga. Hell, it wasn't even mentioned/acknowledged by Kishimoto that Hinata was being bullied as a child by her peers like Sakura had with her forehead. The only thing about her past is that her father Hisashi was discouraging her because of her personality and wasn't strong enough to become a ninja, unlike her young sister Hanabi. The whole entire episode was basically Pierrot "Mary-Sue"-ed Hinata towards the maximum level from extended her flashback scenes as a child with such nonsense, not to mention her looks as a child just screams "Lolicon" to her extended "desperate moments" to stop Pain from hurting her "Naruto-kun". Even the whole confession scene was very off. And I won't even talk about her so-called fight scene.

Yeah I saw that flashback and I was like "Um, where did this come from?" The whole scene was just blown out of proportion. Ohhhhhhhhh my it's amazing how much of her story/characterization/interaction with Naruto is...just filler.

[Darth Krypt]

Ahhh thanks guys. I have been watching anime only till the pain arc then moved to manga so thanks for clarifying this. As expected from an animation studio, trying to satisfy all shippers to maintain ratings. So is it safe to say they are to blame for brainwashing NH shippers into confusing what is canon and whats not?

[bthug]

Anybody else not like how they gave Sakura sleeves?

[Yin Yang Knight]

Nice, for a little while one of my comments sparked a whole new conversation on this thread

[Phantom_999]

Don't lump all of us men together...I find women are beautiful in a variety of different ways. Personally, I don't find Hinata attractive. I find her eyes to be ugly and her clothing to be completely unflattering. And I agree with you completely regarding her shyness. If someone is THAT shy they need to seek professional help(It can't be good to faint so often...Who knows what you might hit on the way down. Not to mention the blood always rushing to her head).

As for tsunderes, I really don't understand why people don't like them. But perhaps, that's merely because I grew up watching anime. I'm used to them.

Well I don't find Hinata ugly but yeah the eyes of the clan are unappealing kinda shouts BLIND! doesn't it? I think the shy personality is cute but she's just over excessive which is kinda annoying to be honest any guy would be turned off by a girl that faints every five minutes when when talking to her. So anyway I personally don't hate tsunderes there are actually one of my favorite anime personality types my only complaint is that tsunderes sometimes don't make progress with their relationships because they hide their feelings with physical violence and verbal abuse or show some visible contempt. I guess many fans are annoyed by tsunderes because they probably say"gimme a break! why bother with these cold people that lie and they don't even show their feelings right lets not bother with them and they choose to be like this" not knowing its a different culture in Japan people view these tsunderes differently besides Sakura is not being tsundere anymore now SO WHAT do you say to that NaruHina fans? oh to all TaiXSora fans THOSE.... IDIOT.... DUBBERS..... WERE MESSING WITH US!!!!!!! Tai and Sora weren't supposed to display romantic interest to each other just like Ash and Misty from Pokemon they were only supposed have a platonic/best friend relationship those american animators were playing us BIG! they are SO GONNA PAY!!!!

last thing.... Shippuden girl? is your new avatar from Elfen Lied? just wondering since you usually go with a DB theme

Edited by Phantom_999, 04 May 2011 - 03:40 AM.

[Greed-Sama]

TaiXSora fans THOSE.... IDIOT.... DUBBERS..... WERE MESSING WITH US!!!!!!! Tai and Sora weren't supposed to display romantic interest to each other just like Ash and Misty from Pokemon they were only supposed have a platonic/best friend relationship those american animators were playing us BIG! they are SO GONNA PAY!!!!

While yes the dubs played around with it, for Taiora even the Japanese voice actors had thought Taiora would be canon. In fact it sparked such an outrage that the voice actor who played Tai in America quit according to the interviews that I read. So while it may not have been that strong in Japan as it was in America, there was definitely a butchering in the season.

As for Pokemon, the anime really is only supported by the games. If the games were too disappear so would it, so they have to figure out ways to expand the story line you know? And you can't get rid of Ash...it just wouldn't be the same. (Sarcasm)

[Zin]

Well I don't find Hinata ugly but yeah the eyes of the clan are unappealing kinda shouts BLIND! doesn't it? I think the shy personality is cute but she's just over excessive which is kinda annoying to be honest any guy would be turned off by a girl that faints every five minutes when when talking to her. So anyway I personally don't hate tsunderes there are actually one of my favorite anime personality types my only complaint is that tsunderes sometimes don't make progress with their relationships because they hide their feelings with physical violence and verbal abuse or show some visible contempt. I guess many fans are annoyed by tsunderes because they probably say"gimme a break! why bother with these cold people that lie and they don't even show their feelings right lets not bother with them and they choose to be like this" not knowing its a different culture in Japan people view these tsunderes differently besides Sakura is not being tsundere anymore now SO WHAT do you say to that NaruHina fans?

Shyness is good in small amounts. An outgoing/strong woman being shy about certain things is incredibly endearing imo. But yea, most personality quirks are bad when they're as excessive as Hinata's.

As for tsunderes: *shrug* Many people in real life are that way. Violent ? Not so much. But, many people use humor and other ways of avoiding or hiding their feelings.

And yea, Sakura has come a long way. It's sad that so many people don't realize it.

[Madz]

Ciardha's quote:
Interestingly enough, on the trashing the strong willed female character front, I recall none before Ranma 1/2, not even Kaori in City Hunter- famous for her "dimensional hammers" used on Ryo whenever he started acting perverted. Ryo chased lots of women and there was even a bit of mutual attraction with two other female characters who were prettier, less hot tempered (no dimensional hammer wink.gif and sexier. But I don't recall anyone bashing Kaori for her violent temper (they read it as the humorous take on her strong will as it was supposed to be) , or being less sexy, and most people shipped KaorixRyo.
Unquote

I always think of Kaori when there are excessive bashing of Sakura because she supposedly "abuses Naruto" . What would those bashers think if they ever saw Kaori in action with Kyo, lol...
Unfortunately I find that MANY people does not understand the typical Japanese manga humour of having girls hitting boys (note that it's always girls who hits boys, not boys who hits girls), they take this as litteral abuse. Have you seen Karin hit her father in Bleach? Does some people take this as serious abuse?
This is a very pet peeve of mine in fanfiction, and unbelievably, I've seen many supposedly Narusaku fictions going in the path of "Sakura beats Naruto and she is abusive and Naruto hates her because of it".

[Jenskott]

Saw the wikipedia article about it too and yeah, I think she's tsundere too, interestingly enough it's a comedy drama like Ranma 1/2 was. With the creator being Hideko Mizuno- a female assistant to Tezuka (who did Princess Knight- introducing the trope that Ikeda built on and used with much more depth- everyone knows Lady Oscar is a young woman- or soon finds out, but she was raised mostly like a boy and trained to be a solider.) I'm not surprised she succeeded, that's mighty good credentials to come from. However, apparently Honey must have been too tsundere for 1966 Japan, because the ratings were low for the anime.

Indeed, being a former Tezuka's assistant was worth a lot back then... and now, I believe.

TV Tropes is wrong about Mizuno being one of the first successful female mangaka

Well, obviously TvTropes isn't quite a reliable source.

Even though I sometimes have to resort to read and paraphrase fragment of Wikipedia or Tvtropes articles when I am writing a recommendation due to my poor English-speaking skills, or time erasing my memory of what the series was about.

there were several successful ones in the 1930's and 40's, including Machiko Hasegawa, who's manga Sazae-san (done in the popular earlier manga style rather the style Tezuka popularized) was adapted to anime and is still the longest running anime- now nearly 20 years after her death.

I had forgotten about Sazae-san. Another instance of a manga is incredibly popular in Japan, but nearly nobody in West has even heard about.

And in shoujo manga done in Tezuka's style- (from which the modern manga storytelling comes from) successful creators Toshiko Ueda and Masako Watanabe predate Mizuno's debut (1956) by several years. In Ueda's case many years- earlier than even Hasegawa, she changes styles when she begins writing for Shoujo Book in 1951- this semi autobiographical story Fuichin-san was finally adapted to anime in 2003. Watanabe begins as children's book illustrator in 1949, but switched to manga in 1952, and when josei manga magazines premiere in the early 1980's Watanabe becomes a pioneer in that market

Well, that is interesting.

Interestingly enough, on the trashing the strong willed female character front, I recall none before Ranma 1/2, not even Kaori in City Hunter- famous for her "dimensional hammers" used on Ryo whenever he started acting perverted. Ryo chased lots of women and there was even a bit of mutual attraction with two other female characters who were prettier, less hot tempered (no dimensional hammer and sexier. But I don't recall anyone bashing Kaori for her violent temper (they read it as the humorous take on her strong will as it was supposed to be) , or being less sexy, and most people shipped KaorixRyo.

I didn't lurk in boards in the nineties, so the most of the Akane-hating instances I ran into were fanfics shipped Ranma with whoever. Curiously, the first Ranma fanfic I ever read was a Ranma/Ukyo fic. I remember I was puzzled. Ranma and Akane were the official couple, so in my mind I didn't get someone wrote a fic where they weren't together.

You can see I was naive.

Dimensional hammer? Hah! Kaori didn't need oversized hammers for unleashing wrathful justice onto Ryo. She could punishing him with just anything. One-hundred-ton hammers were just her favorite weapon.

Kaori and Ryo... sometimes they drove me mad. Why couldn't just they spit it out and get on it? Often I wished shoving one of them onto the another and hoping instinct took over...

I am glad of hearing Kaori wasn't bashed -for once!-.

People probably enjoy their "sweet lil' Hinata" because they like girls who have boobs... and faint? In all honesty, if anyone fainted or blushed like that it'd be so unbelievable freaking annoyed.

Not really. Some people likes her personality or her determination to succeed and not giving up, or her willingness to stop being a doormat...

Unfortunately a lot of Hinata fans overexaggerate her good traits, ignore or mask her bad traits -or insist they are "cute"-, or resort to bash other characters in order to make her look good or better. They tend to completely overrate her personality, power and importance and go on and on AND ON about how she is the prettiest, mightiest, nicest character ever and she should be the main character...

And then they get shocked or angry when the plot proves she is NOT.

That "flashback" where she was bullied was utterly scurrilous and preposterous and clearly contradicts the original story.

oh to all TaiXSora fans THOSE.... IDIOT.... DUBBERS..... WERE MESSING WITH US!!!!!!! Tai and Sora weren't supposed to display romantic interest to each other just like Ash and Misty from Pokemon they were only supposed have a platonic/best friend relationship those american animators were playing us BIG! they are SO GONNA PAY!!

That is actually untrue. The dubbers included lines didn't exist in the original, indeed... but they also removed lines hinted romance between Ash and Misty! Moreover, even if you discard the dubbing, there were scenes clearly hinted feelings between them, or at least a sort of attraction (Do you remember the episode where they visited Maiden's Peak? At the end, Misty is wearing a kimono and asks Ash dancing with her. And he is gawking when he sees her. That isn't something the dubbers added). Pokeshipping wasn't an invention of the dubbing.

It is a moot point, anyways. They replaced Misty with a girl resembled the female character of the Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire's games. And then they replaced May with a girl resembled the female character of the Diamond/Pearl's games. And then they replaced Dawn with still another girl. Obviously the cartoon-makers don't intend hooking Ash up with anybody.

So I don't care anymore and I stick with my original shipping.

I always think of Kaori when there are excessive bashing of Sakura because she supposedly "abuses Naruto" . What would those bashers think if they ever saw Kaori in action with Kyo, lol...

Another City Hunter fan! Cool!

But yes, Kaori is one of the tsundere characters come to my mind when some fan claims Sakura is very violent or more violent your average tsundere.

Kaori has hit Ryo more times in one single chapter than Sakura in the whole series.

[Blazing CobaltX]

I always think of Kaori when there are excessive bashing of Sakura because she supposedly "abuses Naruto" . What would those bashers think if they ever saw Kaori in action with Kyo, lol...
Unfortunately I find that MANY people does not understand the typical Japanese manga humour of having girls hitting boys (note that it's always girls who hits boys, not boys who hits girls), they take this as litteral abuse. Have you seen Karin hit her father in Bleach? Does some people take this as serious abuse?

Yeah, it bothers me that nobody understands it too. They hate Sakura because she hits Naruto. Come on, pepole, that the job of a TsunDere, and Naruto doesn't hate her because of that. v.v

I've seen many supposedly Narusaku fictions going in the path of "Sakura beats Naruto and she is abusive and Naruto hates her because of it".

I hate those kind of fics, so OOC. If Naruto really hated her for that, they would've never been so close.

[ciardha]

This is a very pet peeve of mine in fanfiction, and unbelievably, I've seen many supposedly Narusaku fictions going in the path of "Sakura beats Naruto and she is abusive

Yes, the majority of so called narusaku fanfics are written that way, including a number I've seen recommended in the narusaku fanfic folder- Sakura is abusive, Sakura sexually uses Naruto, denying she's in love with him and rigidly being a Sasuke fangirl... Uh no. Sakura NEVER was that way, Kishimoto would be so sad to see Sakura written that way. It's not being "original" writing Sakura that way, it's just imitating what the Sakura bashers do. Frankly, it's more "original" in fanfic to see writers who actually write Sakura as she is in the manga. She consciously begins to fall in love with Naruto the moment he makes the POAL to her, subconsciously she begins to get attracted in chapter 5, she actually tends to unconsciously look to Naruto's welfare before she even thinks of Sasuke's, even as early as chapter 5, and blatantly in chapter 10. Go reread the manga folks.

Edited by ciardha, 04 May 2011 - 06:14 PM.

[ShippudenGirl]

Lol @ the boys. I didn't mean everyone like big boobs, sheesh, lol XD I'm just saying I've seen people talk about Hinata and her boobs, which is gross and degrades her character more. Some fans in general just disgust me with their talk. I hate when people make the characters OOC. Especially bashers, I swear some people can't seem to comprehend a good change within a character, but oh no, when Sasuke becomes even worse and attempts to kill Sakura they still think they'll get together an Sasuke's still cool. Then with Sakura's transfer into a more mature, less (no more) fangirlish person they still personify her that way. I mean, in Hinata's case she's exactly the same with personalty (except for her 5 second stand-off with Pain) as in Part 1. Or so I see it.

Edited by ShippudenGirl, 04 May 2011 - 03:50 PM.

[bthug]

Anybody else not like how they gave Sakura sleeves?

Well?

[Gaara's hair]

Well?

No, why does it bother you?

Edited by sakurx, 04 May 2011 - 05:51 PM.

[bthug]

No, why does it bother you?

Less clothing, hotter moments for Narusaku.

[Gaara's hair]

Less clothing, hotter moments for Narusaku.

I see XD

[bthug]

I see XD

I literally just thought of a Narusaku moment that I WOULD love to see happen...Naruto tells Sakura that he has to go do something (idk, but something dangerous). She yells at him not to go and goes to punch him, but this time he catches/grabs her fist and pulls her near him (then theirs a quick moment of both their faces from the sides) and then Naruto kisses her on the forehead. (Awwwww <33333) Then after Naruto pulls back, their still close and Sakura says Naruto...and Naruto speeds of and it shows Sakura's face smiling.