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#2901 FireFox

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 09:46 AM

what's happened to you pepsi? I didn't sound so negative in pm with me...

 

anyway, ramen may be agree with me or not but I see that the infamous line "Sakura only wants to be yours" is really ambiguos (because じゃない, in writing, is really ambiguous. It would be less ambiguos if there a marking question like じゃないか)

 

Sasuke: Did she enjoy herself about love or something?
Sasuke: I have no reason to like her and neither does her too (she doesn't have a reason for liking him too).
Kakashi: There's a reason only when you dislike people!


You can translate this in
Kakashi: Besides, now Sakura... She doesn't want to get together with you!
or
Kakashi: Besides, now Sakura... She does want to get get together with you, isn't?
Kakashi: But it's just that she wants to help you!


To me his sentence is really ambiguos. But let's see if ramen is agreeing with me or not..

Kakashi: Besides now Sakura... She doesn't want to

If its is like that then how should we take her declaration of " love "  its confusing me bc if she doesn't want to be with him romantically does that also mean her love isn't romantic but more like familial ? I'm confused   but it seems to go with that she only loves him bc she wants to save him ?  I think this might not be so bad for us if so  and that there is more explanation.clarification to come from Trollmoto. 


Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 29 September 2014 - 09:51 AM.

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#2902 六道仙人

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 09:47 AM

Isn't じゃない usually used as a negative? I always remember this sentence when I had to describe something that I didn't like: 好きじゃない
Unfortunately I don't remember quite well....

 

yes, youre quite right... but japanese sometime is really a SOB, especially in written sentences lol

As I written, using じゃない without any question marking at the end, in a written sentence, leaves really a lot of ambiguity... It would be more clear using it in a vocal chat... If there would be じゃん (it's informal)... It's complicated to say...

 

there's ambiguity here...

 

Naruto's POL part

 

Naruto: I made a promise... to Sakura-chan long time ago, bring Sasuke back!

Kakashi: Naruto....

Naruto: Sensei! You already know my ninja way, indeed? I'm going!

Kakashi: I am relying on you.


Edited by 六道仙人, 29 September 2014 - 09:49 AM.

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#2903 AzureWaters

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 09:47 AM

No, her use of suki is romantic. But I think Kakashi's trying to put her on a pedastal or something/ say she's selfless.

Still, its better than what was originally written. But I dislike everything else that was said.


Edited by AzureWaters, 29 September 2014 - 09:48 AM.


#2904 James S Cassidy

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 09:51 AM

I know some people are still going on and on about this, but I want some of you take a step back, take a deep breathe, and just listen for one moment. Or don't. The choice is yours.

For as long as we can remember we have debated over this manga time and time again. Everyday it felt like we knew or we understood something only to be thrown into a loop. We get discouraged because we were wrong or in some cases happy because we were right, but some here are acting like you already know exactly how the manga will end and it won't be satisfactory. How would you know? At this point, maybe nothing will satisfy you. It could even be exactly what you want to happen and it won't be good enough, but that cannot be changed. Some of you are just as stubborn as Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are. Unwilling to look at anything different for whatever reason. If anything, we are just like them because we want this "ideal reality" and "perfect image" to come to life, but nothing ever works out the way you want it. Doesn't mean you won't get what you want.

@Pepsi
I want to ask you something truthfully. In what way could this all be fixed? If you could take over Kishimoto's body, how would you fix this manga to better suit what you deem is worthy of what the goals you are after? This isn't some challenge to prove you're wrong or anything, but rather I am just curious. You preach that everything is broken, but never do you really provide any way that it could be fixed. It's like people who want gun laws or gun control. They want it to happen, but they never really have an answer about going about doing it. So, I am curious, how would you do it? And how would you feel if people thought your idea was terrible or thinking you were out of your mind?

I am tired of trying to convince people to "like" Sakura because they never will. For whatever reason, they can never like her. So why bother trying to convince them? I want to stop caring about them. I still think Sakura is an amazing girl. She just has problems that is her weakness. Even I have such problems that I am trying to overcome and still haven't. To you, maybe my problems could be easily solvable, but to me they haunt me day in and day out to the point that I want a release from them. I realized that what I need is someone to help me...to remind me who I truly am. In a way, I know what Sakura is going through and maybe perhaps she knows she is in love [with Sasuke], but at the same time she doesn't want to be. Insanity? Well, the human mind and heart are complicated things. If we could explain them, then we would solve the greatest mysteries of all.

I know a way to make NS an amazing thing. I know how it can become canon and not be seen as a "silver medal," but....Sakura has to "die" first. She has to kill off who she was before and be reborn into something new. Something far more powerful. Something wonderful and amazing. I am hoping this is what is going to happen. For Naruto, it is the same way and for Sasuke as well. They need to "die" and be "reborn." Renovatio.

@LadyGT
You have high hopes for the manga ahead. Maybe like some you were hurt by what happened, but at the same time you saw something else. Something that some are not seeing. I think I see it too or I believe I do. I have no way to explain to others how our views can be seen. It is like trying to explain god to an atheist. Sometimes they just have to learn for themselves if they ever do.

I tried so hard to see this manga, to read it, and even to understand it, but I am not sure if I can unless I know exactly what Kishimoto is thinking. I do try though and while there are times of just wanting to give up, there are others times of wanting to know more. To maybe somewhat relate it to my own life and my own views. I can't understand everything though and other times I completely disagree with it outright. I am not sure if it is me being stubborn or misunderstanding or maybe I am the one correct and the manga is wrong. I have no way to tell that at all. All I can do is watch like an observer and hoping this "world" plays out to something beautiful and amazing.

I can't pretend anymore to think that I am smarter than Kishimoto and know exactly what is good for this manga. I can't pretend that I know exactly what is going to happen and spout out things that maybe in themselves is insanity. I don't want to do that anymore because I feel like I am missing out in what it means to truly "see" things. This chapter was a huge wake up to me and maybe it was for the best. This chapter might be the most powerful chapter in the entire series, because it is not just meant to open the characters eyes, but maybe open our eyes as well. Most of the fandom are rather...tunnel visioned in their views. It's not bad, but it is not good either. It just is. In a way, I kind of feel sorry for Naruto and Sakura because it is like they want others to understand them while at the same time not be seen as insane for what they see or if they do have their own demons, maybe want to be rid of them. It is meant to hold them back and they have to release it any way they can. This was Sakura's way of releasing those demons so that she can truly be free of it all. Now Naruto has to break free.

I thought about this chapter in reflection of my own life and I had to laugh. I am just like Sakura. Even though I love another with all my heart, I still can not rid myself of a past love and it haunts me to this very day. I am hoping one day to release those demons because it feels like I am tearing myself apart. Like I can't live my life cause it is holding me back. I don't know truly if this is what Sakura feels, but that's what I feel when I read this chapter one more time. I felt like someone trying to break the chains of their prison and trying so hard to find release. You don't want to face it, but you know you have to. It turns us into bad things, but we have to defeat it for our own freedom.

The girl that I am in love with now...I feel free when I see her and I have to wonder if Sakura feels the same looking at Naruto.

Even now, my words seem like madness and probably people will find weirdness in reading all of this, but I just wanted to spill my heart on the page. There is always this state of mind I have where I have no fear, no shame, and no weight to me and for some reason I am in that state of mind right now.

Kishimoto....he has surprised us on many occasions. The only thing I know for certain is that he will surprise us again. I want to see that cherry blossom bloom one more time.
 

 

hooray for the silver medal  :down:

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Edited by James S Cassidy, 29 September 2014 - 10:09 AM.

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#2905 only Naruto

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 09:52 AM

what's happened to you pepsi? I didn't sound so negative in pm with me...

 

anyway, ramen may be agree with me or not but I see that the infamous line "Sakura only wants to be yours" is really ambiguos (because じゃない, in writing, is really ambiguous. It would be less ambiguos if there a marking question like じゃないか)

 

Sasuke: Did she enjoy herself about love or something?
Sasuke: I have no reason to like her and neither does her too (she doesn't have a reason for liking him too).
Kakashi: There's a reason only when you dislike people!


You can translate this in
Kakashi: Besides, now Sakura... She doesn't want to get together with you!
or
Kakashi: Besides, now Sakura... She does want to get get together with you, isn't?
Kakashi: But it's just that she wants to help you!


To me his sentence is really ambiguos. But let's see if ramen is agreeing with me or not..

Kakashi: Besides now Sakura... She doesn't want to

do u think its good in away or make a difference  ? and thanks for the effort  :thumb: . i hope ramen  isnt that busy today  :D

 

If its is like that then how should we take her declaration of " love "  its confusing me bc if she doesn't want to be with him romantically does that also mean her love isn't romantic but more like familial ? I'm confused   but it seems to go with that she onlt loves him bc she wants to save him ?  I think this might not be so bad for us if so  and that there is more explanation.clarification to come from Trollmoto. 

i hope so . . and trollmoto LOL. 

 
 
 
 
 
@james 
 
totally agree. a great post in the heart of the point as always. . 
 

Edited by only Naruto, 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM.


#2906 machi

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:01 AM

It's been 4 days but I'm so mad about this. Why is Naruto not saying anything when Sakura is making a full of herself over a guy who would rather stab her in the heart than talk to her at least? I get that she has strong feelings about him, but she obviously is misguided about why she loves him. She doesn't know that Naruto was the one who complimented her, she still thinks it was Sasuke. So everything Sasuke does she sees it in a romantic way, even when it hurts her. 

She needs to get over this crush. She cares about him because she is a nice girl but she needs to move on. Naruto is the one who is always there for her. :cry:

ANd I can't believe even kakashi would support her. I feel like my favorite character has been destroyed. Her "love" was always a bad thing that hurt her, so I don't know why Kishimoto makes it look stronger and stronger every time. And now Kakashi too? 

Seriously I don't know what Kishi is thinking :wallbash:


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#2907 narusaku256

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:06 AM

I know some people are still going on and on about this, but I want some of you take a step back, take a deep breathe, and just listen for one moment. Or don't. The choice is yours.

For as long as we can remember we have debated over this manga time and time again. Everyday it felt like we knew or we understood something only to be thrown into a loop. We get discouraged because we were wrong or in some cases happy because we were right, but some here are acting like you already know exactly how the manga will end and it won't be satisfactory. How would you know? At this point, maybe nothing will satisfy you. It could even be exactly what you want to happen and it won't be good enough, but that cannot be changed. Some of you are just as stubborn as Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are. Unwilling to look at anything different for whatever reason. If anything, we are just like them because we want this "ideal reality" and "perfect image" to come to life, but nothing ever works out the way you want it. Doesn't mean you won't get what you want.

@Pepsi
I want to ask you something truthfully. In what way could this all be fixed? If you could take over Kishimoto's body, how would you fix this manga to better suit what you deem is worthy of what the goals you are after? This isn't some challenge to prove you're wrong or anything, but rather I am just curious. You preach that everything is broken, but never do you really provide any way that it could be fixed. It's like people who want gun laws or gun control. They want it to happen, but they never really have an answer about going about doing it. So, I am curious, how would you do it? And how would you feel if people thought your idea was terrible or thinking you were out of your mind?

I am tired of trying to convince people to "like" Sakura because they never will. For whatever reason, they can never like her. So why bother trying to convince them? I want to stop caring about them. I still think Sakura is an amazing girl. She just has problems that is her weakness. Even I have such problems that I am trying to overcome and still haven't. To you, maybe my problems could be easily solvable, but to me they haunt me day in and day out to the point that I want a release from them. I realized that what I needed is someone to help me...to remind me...who I truly am. In a way, I know what Sakura is going through and maybe perhaps she knows she is in love, but at the same time she doesn't want to be. Insanity? Well, the human mind and heart are complicated things. If we could explain them, then we would solve the greatest mysteries of all.

I know a way to make NS an amazing thing. I know how it can become canon and not be seen as a "silver medal," but....Sakura has to "die" first. She has to kill off who she was before and be reborn into something new. Something far more powerful. Something wonderful and amazing. I am hoping this is what is going to happen. For Naruto, it is the same way and for Sasuke as well. They need to "die" and be "reborn." Renovatio.

@LadyGT
You have high hopes for the manga ahead. Maybe like some you were hurt by what happened, but at the same time you saw something else. Something that some are not seeing. I think I see it too or I believe I do. I have no way to explain to others how our views can be seen. It is like trying to explain god to an atheist. Sometimes they just have to learn for themselves if they ever do.

I tried so hard to see this manga, to read it, and even to understand it, but I am not sure if I can unless I know exactly what Kishimoto is thinking. I do try though and while there are times of just wanting to give up, there are others times of wanting to know more. To maybe somewhat relate it to my own life and my own views. I can't understand everything though and other times I completely disagree with outright. I am not sure if it me being stubborn or misunderstanding or maybe I am the one correct and the manga is wrong. I have no way to tell that at all. All I can do is watch like an observer and hoping this "world" plays out to something beautiful and amazing.

I can't pretend anymore to think that I am smarter than Kishimoto and know exactly what is good for this manga. I can't pretend that I know exactly what is going to happen and spout out things that maybe in themselves is insanity. I don't want to do that anymore because I feel like I am missing out in what it means to truly "see" things. This chapter was a huge wake up to me and maybe it was for the best. This chapter might be the most powerful chapter in the entire series, because it is not just meant to open the characters eyes, but maybe open our eyes as well. Most of the fandom are rather...tunnel visioned in their views. It's not bad, but it is not good either. It just is. In a way, I kind of feel sorry for Naruto and Sakura because it is like they want others to understand while at the same time not be seen as insane for what they see or if they do have their own demons, maybe want to be rid of them. It is meant to hold them back and they have to release it anyway they can. This was Sakura's way of releasing those demons so that she can truly be free of it all. Now Naruto has to break free.

I thought about this chapter in reflection of my own life and I had to laugh. I am just like Sakura. Even though I love another with all my heart, I still can not rid myself of a past love and it haunts me to this very day. I am hoping one day to release those demons because it feels like I am tearing myself apart. Like I can't live my life cause it is holding me back. I don't know if this is what Sakura feels, but that's what I feel when I read this chapter one more time. I felt like someone trying to break the chains of their prison and trying so hard to find release. You don't want to face it, but you know you have to. It turns us into bad things, but we have to defeat it for our own freedom.

The girl that I am in love with now...I feel free when I see her and I have to wonder if Sakura feels the same looking at Naruto.

Even now, my words seem like madness and probably people will find weirdness in reading all of this, but I just wanted to spill my heart on the page. There is always this state of mind I have where I have no fear, no shame, and no weight to me and for some reason I am in that state of mind right now.

Kishimoto....he has surprised us on many occasions. The only thing I know for certain is that he will surprise us again. I want to see that cherry blossom bloom one more time.
 
 
Women love a man who can finish second.

*Taps my head and the heart* If you remember this.....Odd enough! Isn't whats goin on with Sakura chan? Makes me happy seeing that she is the most human of all ^_^

                                                       tumblr_nokgzxLJ4A1ts94lmo1_500.gif


#2908 FireFox

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:11 AM

 

do u think its good in away or make a difference  ? and thanks for the effort  :thumb: . i hope ramen  isnt that busy today  :D

 

i hope so . . and trollmoto LOL. 

 
 
 
 
 
@james 
 
totally agree. a great post in the heart of the point as always. . 
 

 

Yeah to be honest  about Kakashi's part and that line  if the translation by 六道仙人  is correct and implies that  then MP is right only in this part as its trans says " She  wants to save you there is nothing more to it "  maybe this is why they translated it like this ?


Edited by NarutoFireFoxUzumaki, 29 September 2014 - 10:11 AM.

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#2909 Gojira

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:14 AM

I know some people are still going on and on about this, but I want some of you take a step back, take a deep breathe, and just listen for one moment. Or don't. The choice is yours.

For as long as we can remember we have debated over this manga time and time again. Everyday it felt like we knew or we understood something only to be thrown into a loop. We get discouraged because we were wrong or in some cases happy because we were right, but some here are acting like you already know exactly how the manga will end and it won't be satisfactory. How would you know? At this point, maybe nothing will satisfy you. It could even be exactly what you want to happen and it won't be good enough, but that cannot be changed. Some of you are just as stubborn as Naruto, Sakura, and Sasuke are. Unwilling to look at anything different for whatever reason. If anything, we are just like them because we want this "ideal reality" and "perfect image" to come to life, but nothing ever works out the way you want it. Doesn't mean you won't get what you want.

@Pepsi
I want to ask you something truthfully. In what way could this all be fixed? If you could take over Kishimoto's body, how would you fix this manga to better suit what you deem is worthy of what the goals you are after? This isn't some challenge to prove you're wrong or anything, but rather I am just curious. You preach that everything is broken, but never do you really provide any way that it could be fixed. It's like people who want gun laws or gun control. They want it to happen, but they never really have an answer about going about doing it. So, I am curious, how would you do it? And how would you feel if people thought your idea was terrible or thinking you were out of your mind?

Simple...all Kishi had to do was avoid doing this.


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#2910 Gojira

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:16 AM

If its is like that then how should we take her declaration of " love "  its confusing me bc if she doesn't want to be with him romantically does that also mean her love isn't romantic but more like familial ? I'm confused   but it seems to go with that she only loves him bc she wants to save him ?  I think this might not be so bad for us if so  and that there is more explanation.clarification to come from Trollmoto. 

Its consistent with Kakashi's words about Sakura' love for him being more platonic. Her love for him is like Naruto and Kakashi's love for him. or She loves him but doesn't want to be with him romantically any one of those is better than.

 

"she wants to be yours"

 

POAL happens

 

she ends up with Naruto instead

 

The End


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#2911 James S Cassidy

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:16 AM

Simple...all Kishi had to do was avoid doing this.

You already said that nothing Kishi can do can fix this in your eyes. So I ask again, how would you fix it? You can't go back and change things. Start here. How would you fix it? How would you fix what you believe is broken? You don't even have to answer me right away. In fact, take a moment and think about it.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 29 September 2014 - 10:17 AM.

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#2912 only Naruto

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:17 AM

Yeah to be honest  about Kakashi's part and that line  if the translation by 六道仙人  is correct and implies that  then MP is right only in this part as its trans says " She  wants to save you there is nothing more to it "  maybe this is why they translated it like this ?

ok . then lets all hope mp is right about this . . maybe ms  guys said well sakura said she loves him  lets add some salt on it  . lets make kakashi  gather them . :lulz: and they like doing  it as we all know .lol . 

 


#2913 Gojira

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:23 AM

You already said that nothing Kishi can do can fix this in your eyes. So I ask again, how would you fix it? You can't go back and change things. Start here. How would you fix it? How would you fix what you believe is broken? You don't even have to answer me right away. In fact, take a moment and think about it.

Several (as inplausable as they may be)

 

-Kakashi and Sakura talk about how her confession was just hot air due to the desperate situation

-Sakura explains the differences between her love for Sasuke and her love for Naruto and how greatful she is that Naruto was by her side

-Naruto and Sasuke "kill each other" Sakura runs to Naruto's side and Kakashi comments that Sakura's heart led her to Naruto as instinctively as the one she loves and he tells her this

-Sakura indirectly tells Kakashi that her love for Sasuke is more platonic

 

those are just off the top of my head.


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#2914 DarkRadeon

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:24 AM

We know what she's going to do next just like we know what Sasuke was going to do. She's going to regain consciousness and head over to the Valley with Kakashi only to discover too late that Naruto and sasukekoon is dead but then Naruto wakes up and she embraces her beloved silver medal just like in the OVA.

How can Sasuke die if he is living in the movie?



#2915 Gojira

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:27 AM

How can Sasuke die if he is living in the movie?

How can Naruto be alive if he's in the movie....

 

Obviously they aren't going to really die like Hagoromo predicted and if they do they aren't going to stay that way.


Edited by Pepsi, 29 September 2014 - 10:28 AM.

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#2916 AzureWaters

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:28 AM

Sakura's wording more than implies romantic feeling. What Kakashi's saying is that she's concerned with saving him/ his well being than trying to get with him. Imo its still not particularly good for us. It sounds like Kishi's trying to make her feelings appear "good" or selfless.

I'd still like to know what that "stab each other" thing is about.

 



#2917 六道仙人

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:29 AM

Sakura's wording more than implies romantic feeling. What Kakashi's saying is that she's concerned with saving him/ his well being than trying to get with him. Imo its still not particularly good for us. It sounds like Kishi's trying to make her feelings appear "good" or selfless.

I'd still like to know what that "stab each other" thing is about.

 

 

i didn't see anything about "stab each other" lol


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#2918 machi

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:29 AM

How can Sasuke die if he is living in the movie?

 

even if he is alive I except Sakura to go to Naruto first. Because even when she hasn't realized he is the one she loves and that would be the perfect way to show it.


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#2919 DarkRadeon

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:31 AM

Sakura uses "daisuki". Regardless of what Kakashi said, her feelings are meant to come off as romantic here unfortunately.

Was daisuki used when she confessed to Naruto?

 

How can Naruto be alive if he's in the movie....

 

Obviously they aren't going to really die like Hagoromo predicted and if they do they aren't going to stay that way.

Well you said that both of them die.

 

So you meant both of them are near death and she runs to Naruto first?


Edited by DarkRadeon, 29 September 2014 - 10:32 AM.


#2920 narusaku256

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 10:33 AM

Several (as inplausable as they may be)
 
-Kakashi and Sakura talk about how her confession was just hot air due to the desperate situation
-Sakura explains the differences between her love for Sasuke and her love for Naruto and how greatful she is that Naruto was by her side
-Naruto and Sasuke "kill each other" Sakura runs to Naruto's side and Kakashi comments that Sakura's heart led her to Naruto as instinctively as the one she loves and he tells her this
-Sakura indirectly tells Kakashi that her love for Sasuke is more platonic
 
those are just off the top of my head.

So...that does mean that NS being canon without Naruto being a silver medal is possible and ironically, you yourself stated how it can be carried it despite you being the one saying it isn't possible at all ^_^

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