3406 replies to this topic

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

Didnt someome bought a panel when she recognized her feeling for Jiraiya but it was too late?

No. Someone brought up a panel that could show that Tsunade recogniced her feelings for Jiraiya. She didn't say "I will marry Jiraiya Nolastname, the man I romantically love".

[Chatte]

If I ask for clarification, then it is not clear to me. I honestly don't get why you put up that image of Tsunade remembering her little brother and Dan when hearing Naruto's words. And you are right, it does not speak volumes to me. Maybe she was willing to give him a chance and willing to go out with him. Then Dan appeared in the war arc and it seems to me that Tsunade still has feelings for him. Maybe she loves them both, but Dan, IMO, was written as the one for Tsunade if they are going to spend the entire afterlife together.

It's quite simple if you look at it. Dan = Naruto. Jiraiya = Naruto.
As I said, Kishi points from 2 sides in the same direction.

Someone made a really nice parallel with Naruto = Dan on Tumblr, maybe I'll find it and come back with a post.

@Chatte

I have covered that as well.

Oh, I'd love to read it if you have it somewhere around

Edited by Chatte, 06 January 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[Qia]

It's quite simple if you look at it. Dan = Naruto. Jiraiya = Naruto.
As I said, Kishi points from 2 sides in the same direction.

Someone made a really nice parallel with Naruto = Dan on Tumblr, maybe I'll find it and come back with a post.


Oh, I'd love to read it if you can find it.

Jiraiya= Naruto here?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

You're still not getting it. I don't know how straight forward I can say this. Ill try one more time.

Think about every single problem NaruSaku has faced. The reasons why Naruto and Sakura are not as close right now as they should. (Don't mistake what I said here because yes, they are close, but they could be closer in terms of loving each other.) Why their pairing is not canon yet. Notice all the times when Sasuke wasn't even a thought and see how much Sakura cared about Naruto. Now, eliminate Sasuke all together. Take away everything that he influenced like the POAL, the suffering Naruto and Sakura went through. Naruto denying the love triangle to people when they asked about it. Take away all the drama that has ever happened because of Sasuke's influence on it.

I will also explain that while yes she did acknowledge Naruto eventually, she did not take it to heart as much as she could have because Sasuke was taking up space. Do you understand? A women's heart is complicated. It's might seem stupid, but it is true.

You find that most of the drama Naruto and Sakura go through was all because of Sasuke. Sure, he didn't cause every bit of drama between the two, but that being said things would have moved faster in development. As for your "She does not acknowledge her actions." Again, why? Because of Sasuke. She feels like she can't help with the Sasuke problem and because of this she felt insecure and bad about it in the earlier chapters. Now that she has accepted this and let it all up to Naruto. She will just play the support. Just as Kushina supported Minato.

If Sasuke didn't exist, none of it would be happening right now. The problem with Obito and Madara and Akatuki would exist, but everything else would be gone. No more pairing drama.

Look James i agree with you but when you said about Sasuke yes it could be easier but the problem is not about Sakura recognizing this, just look at Sakura now, look at how her handle with herself, Naruto has a problem with her loving Sasuke which hold on and Sakura has a problem with herself thinking that she does not deserve a great person like Naruto and this is due to her problems with herself,
But to make Sakura fall in love with Naruto, he does not need to say "i love you" he only need to tell her that she's not a burden to him, it does not requires a romantic scene.
It's just simple as that.
Maybe he will do on this arc leading to her falling in love with Naruto completely and on the next arc she proves this to Naruto.

As for the bolded one, she feels that she cant help Naruto at all, i thought that it was all about Sasuke but it's not, just look at yamato when he said about sakura it's a problem with self confidence she thinks she's not strong enough, and yamato showed her that it's not a matter of strenght it's a matter of the best she can do.
Yamato didnt even talked about Sasuke, and neither her, she said the things i can do for him are small.
She didnt accepted she said she wanted to fight with him, she wants to prove something to Naruto.
If she sees the handholding will just make her feel bad about herself ( again).

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[Chatte]

Jiraiya= Naruto here?

You can say that, however, I think that is only one of the parallels. Let's not forget how Naruto wants to act cool in front of Sakura, Jiraiya did this as well. Naruto always asks Sakura for dates, so did Tsunade. Naruto always acts goofy around Sakura, so did Jiraiya and so many other things.
Hell, Jiraiya himself recognizes Sakura as a Second Tsunade and Tsunade remembers their old days.
She even says something like "That's it, nostalgia times over!" or something like this.
Now the difference between Naruto and Sakura and Jiraiya and Tsunade is that while Tsunade always rejected Jiraiya's dates asking, Sakura didn't, but she said Naruto will pay. Ramp,pam,pam.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

As has been pointed out before, Hinata was a part of the inspiration and support that Naruto needed in this chapter, but she did not convince him alone or seal the deal. Kurama did. If Neji's death and Kurama's comments had not been included then Hinata could take all the credit, but she was only part of what inspired Naruto.

I think this is pretty dismissive of Hinata. She did the majority of work. What she did was to remind Naruto of his beliefs and of the sacrifices of others, incl. his parents, Neji etc. Kurama joined in.

I could not disagree more. All she has ever done is doubt Naruto's abilities. Even in #615 she slapped him the instant he hesitated, assuming he was going to crack. This is her pattern -- assuming Naruto can't handle the situation, over-worrying, and inserting herself into his business. This has been happening since she offered to let him cheat off her during the Chuunin Exams. I view her actions during the Pain arc the same. It's the kind of "help" that indicates she really doesn't know who he is or what he's about because she's on the fringe of his life. That's not to say she hasn't provided some benefit through her good intentions.

Yes, that's truly nice of her. However, it doesn't fit Naruto's personality. She says his nindo is her nindo, but she has repeatedly demonstrated that she doesn't understand him. HE wants to be a strong ninja. HE wants to be useful for the village. Thinking of him as a proud failure and accepting him as such is a lovely sentiment, but from everything we know about Naruto that's not the kind of support he wants.

In my opinion, the fact that Hinata doesn't actually know Naruto, or know what he's like to live with or work with, and the fact that she doesn't seem to have a clear picture of his motivation, calls into question exactly what her affection has been built on.

Ah, but wasn't he going to crack? You seem to think that Hinata has no reason to doubt Naruto, but she does. Naruto is capable of losing and giving up and getting hurt, just like anyone else. Part of it is also natural worry people have for those who are important to them. I know that you like to think that Hinata has no faith in Naruto, unlike Sakura. Yet she was the one who always believed him to be amazing and was inspired by his strength already during the chuunin exams, while the rest of the village still thought Naruto useless. Not to mention that Sakura herself has shown worry for Naruto, too. Think the summit arc. Does Sakura not think Naruto is strong enough to handle everything? Hinata just in this very chapter showed that she understood that Naruto needed something to pull himself back together and a reminder of what was important. Hinata has always believed in Naruto. She believes in this strong and capable Naruto, but she also loved that little failure child as well. She is capable of loving him no matter what. She is loyal and supportive. She has shown that she can also stand up to him and call him out, if necessary. How can this not be what Naruto needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of Naruto and his actions, when needed.

It's quite simple if you look at it. Dan = Naruto. Jiraiya = Naruto.
As I said, Kishi points from 2 sides in the same direction.

Someone made a really nice parallel with Naruto = Dan on Tumblr, maybe I'll find it and come back with a post.

I do agree that Dan shares a similarity with Naruto. I just didn't understand at first that this was what you meant.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 06 January 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

So, next week is the time of our lives. It's going to hard to get through with this because well, we may feel our heartbeat going rapid. That said what's your most feared reason for the next chapter?

[Chatte]

I think this is pretty dismissive of Hinata. She did the majority of work. What she did was to remind Naruto of his beliefs and of the sacrifices of others, incl. his parents, Neji etc. Kurama joined in.


I do agree that Dan shares a similarity with Naruto. I just didn't understand at first that this was what you meant.

Yeah, that's what I wanted to mean.

Now, about Hinata, it was about his belief and Neji's sacrifice. About the others it was Kurama.
Hinata wasn't even born when Naruto's parents sacrifice happened.

So, next week is the time of our lives. It's going to hard to get through with this because well, we may feel our heartbeat going rapid. That said what's your most feared reason for the next chapter?

I have no problem or fears... I still think it will have NH moments and stuff, however, I'll be disgusted by the NH fandom's reaction. I'd be ok if they'd just be happy for their pair, however, they need to bash on NS or Sakura. That IS disgusting in my eyes.
Probably stay away from other forums until things calm down again.

Edited by Chatte, 06 January 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[naruto-z]

Seeing Younger Jaraiya just reminds me of how much he looks like Minato. God, if he's not his father I'd be shocked.

[tricksie]

@Tricksie

Please read what I typed again. I did say that they were a part 1 parallel until Obito died and went down the wrong path. That's where the parallel stops. Also, Naruto can deal with any damage done to himself, but look at how he reacts to when the damage is done to his friends. Naruto got stabbed by Sasuke yes, but what if he stabbed Sakura instead?

As for the rest, he is supposed to preserve because he is the hero. He is supposed to hold on to the faith. If he was as weak willed as Obito, then he wouldn't be the hero now would he? Since Naruto is the main character is of no question that he won't turn. Just like how we know that he will prevail in the end as he always will. I have not read a story where the hero fails and the world is destroyed. I am sure there are some out there, but it's not a common practice.

Uh, please read what I typed again. I do not think Naruto would act that way Obito did if Sasuke stabbed Sakura.

And no, being the hero doesn't mean he automaticallly perseveres. There are tons of works with anti-heroes in them who succeed for less-than-noble reasons, as well as works where the hero doesn't succeed at all. Naruto is the hero because he is tested in similar situations and comes out with a different result than all the rest. Being the hero does not ensure the good choices. Making good choices and persevering through the bad ones makes him the hero. And being the main character doesn't automatically mean that he will make heroic choices. We only know he will prevail because this is a manga aimed at teens.

On another note, please watch the condescending language when you post. Your belief that your opinions are correct is no more or less valid than anyone else's. If you have expressed your point and still disagree, then move on and let it go.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Uh, please read what I typed again. I do not think Naruto would act that way Obito did if Sasuke stabbed Sakura.

I think he would act because it's not just about Sakura being the love of his life but because it would determine that he failed to save Sasuke and moreover he failed in protecting Sakura-chan.
Everything he did would mean nothing.
It would be impossible for him to be happy, probably he would became like Jiraiya.
He would not be able to forgive Sasuke, just look at Nagato he didnt forgive Nagato until he used that jutsu to revive the people he killed, not killing someome is not the same as forgiveness.

http://i18.mangaread...naruto-8898.jpg

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 09:29 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

Look James i agree with you but when you said about Sasuke yes it could be easier but the problem is not about Sakura recognizing this, just look at Sakura now, look at how her handle with herself, Naruto has a problem with her loving Sasuke which hold on and Sakura has a problem with herself thinking that she does not deserve a great person like Naruto and this is due to her problems with herself,
But to make Sakura fall in love with Naruto, he does not need to say "i love you" he only need to tell her that she's not a burden to him, it does not requires a romantic scene.
It's just simple as that.
Maybe he will do on this arc leading to her falling in love with Naruto completely and on the next arc she proves this to Naruto.

Sakura had problems similar to Kushina in Part 1. After Kushina met Minato, did she continue to have problems of insecurity? As far as we know, no. In fact, Kushina said she began to love herself because of it and she ended up helping influence Minato to be a better person and become Hokage.

If Sasuke never existed. Naruto and Sakura would have played out the same way. This is what you keep forgetting. You are ignoring all the influences that Sasuke has on Naruto and Sakura both on a direct and indirect scale. If Sasuke didn't cause all that drama then Naruto would have played the game differently. Naruto would not be insecure about his abilities to save his friend and instead focus on everything else he has been neglecting.

Sakura's insecurities about her abilities were because of Naruto's insecurities about bringing back Sasuke. Coupled also with the fact that Sakura was also affected by Sasuke leaving which also took a heavy hit on her. So again, Sasuke influences crippled everything like a domino effect, but without that first domino aka Sasuke, then none of this would have been happening in the first place. Do you see what I mean?

As for the bolded one, she feels that she cant help Naruto at all, i thought that it was all about Sasuke but it's not, just look at yamato when he said about sakura it's a problem with self confidence she thinks she's not strong enough, and yamato showed her that it's not a matter of strenght it's a matter of the best she can do.
Yamato didnt even talked about Sasuke, and neither her, she said the things i can do for him are small.
She didnt accepted she said she wanted to fight with him, she wants to prove something to Naruto.
If she sees the handholding will just make her feel bad about herself ( again).

And why did Sakura feel helpless here? Because at that moment Naruto met Orochimaru who took Sasuke away. This caused Naruto to be pissed at Orochimaru and angry at the situation because once again of Sasuke influences which caused him to transform. If Sasuke didn't exist, Orochimaru would just be another enemy. There would be no Sasuke retrieval arc. Sasuke wouldn't have abandoned the village at all and Sakura would not have felt the way she did here. They might have been a couple already by this point in the story.

So again, Sasuke is the factor. Erase everything about Sasuke. Everything that is tied to Sasuke. We could even leave Itachi in the mix and it still would be okay. In fact, Itachi might have not seem like such a bad guy as the one thing that people hate about him is how much he has messed up Sasuke in the head. They accepted the fact that he massacred his clan for the greater good and had no choice.

So again, it is a domino effect and it continues to be a domino effect until Sasuke is dealt with.

I know what you are trying to show me, but I can trace all that problems back to Sasuke. In fact, if Naruto wasn't searching for Sasuke, I don't think they would have a reason to be on that bridge in the first place.

Uh, please read what I typed again. I do not think Naruto would act that way Obito did if Sasuke stabbed Sakura.

But why would Naruto be like Obito if Sasuke stabbed him? I don't understand the logic.

And no, being the hero doesn't mean he automaticallly perseveres. There are tons of works with anti-heroes in them who succeed for less-than-noble reasons, as well as works where the hero doesn't succeed at all. Naruto is the hero because he is tested in similar situations and comes out with a different result than all the rest. Being the hero does not ensure the good choices. Making good choices and persevering through the bad ones makes him the hero. And being the main character doesn't automatically mean that he will make heroic choices. We only know he will prevail because this is a manga aimed at teens.

Bolded: Isn't that kind of the point, though? It's like the Knight versus the Dragon Stories aimed for little kids.

Anti-heroes are not heroes. They are not villains, either. So I have to say this argument is invalid cause they can be anything they want. One minute they are a villain, then a hero, then a villain again. Look at Vegeta. Deadpool. Wolverine.

"I play to the highest bidder, kid. I'm not a hero, but if I happen to do some good in the process so be it"
- Kazuma

I also said nothing of the word "main character." I stayed away from using that word as well as "protagonist" because that just makes note of the who we are following. "Hero" is a distinct title aimed to the person who saves the day and who over comes trials.

This is what I don't understand, Tricksie, if you know Naruto is the hero, why do you question the dynamics of the story where he succeeds? It's kind of a given aspect of the hero in these kinds of stories given that we know this story is aimed at boys from elementary school through grade school age. Then we have Seinen manga who is aimed at 18-30 year old. Since Naruto is a shonen aimed for younger boys than I can see why the hero can always win in the end and there isn't some deep thought out endings equivalent to a Shakespeare type tragedy. Not to say that the hero doesn't fail at all, but in the end he usually ends up with a happy ending.

In my mind, I half expected the story to play out as such.

And please, can you give me examples of Shonen stories where the hero fails and the villain wins in the end?

And really want to make note here: I am not trying to condescend you, I am trying to understand why you feel the way you do about this. Don't need to assume something that isn't. I am trying to respect you, by understanding you. I hope you have the same respect and try to understand me. As I mentioned tone is hard to convey in forums and can be misunderstood quite easily.

On another note, please watch the condescending language when you post. Your belief that your opinions are correct is no more or less valid than anyone else's. If you have expressed your point and still disagree, then move on and let it go.

I am not trying to sound condescending, but it's hard not to when you want to explain yourself and people are pointing out every little bit of detail to prove you are wrong and saying it is fact. There are even some things that I infer people understand as common sense. I am trying to say that there are some facts that people should have been a given by now. Not saying anyone is stupid, but just saying that people need to be aware of basic logic when reading someone else's logic.

Looking at how I do my posting and the way I think, I try to be thorough, but I infer that the people who read my posts will automatically know where I am coming from with it. I find people highly intelligent here, I shouldn't need to do that.

This is the respect I give.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 January 2013 - 11:17 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

About love behavior this is the thing i'm saying it makes Naruto unable to confess himself to Sakura but what i said he does not need to confess to her, to make her stop thinking low about herself.
I think Naruto has not realized how bad she looks at herself.
The most close that it got was when Sai said "she wants to lift the burden you have" but it was no direct mention to the fact that she views herself as it is.

SAsuke influence on Naruto's love is that he's unable to confess to her.
On Sakura is not Sasuke that makes her feel useless, is her need to help Naruto and she end up thinking she did nothing for him.
What you're not seeing is Naruto does not need ot confess he does not need to Sakura stop loving Sasuke for him to change her the way Minato changed Kushina.


About Sakura Naruto and Orochimaru, you're making an assumption it was not about Sasuke she felt helpless because she could do nothing there, she could not stop Naruto from transforming, she could not even attack Orochimaru she just fainted.
She even say "i will save Sasuke for you, Naruto!".
this makes her erase all the things she did for Naruto and started looking like a weakling, and she became another Sakura different from the one who fight against Sasori, you forgot how she was before the bridge's arc, she knew that Naruto was a Jinchuuriki and she wanted to help him on this matter and with the Akatsuki, you're trying to drive it to Sasuke when it's not even the case.
THey were on the bridge thanks to the info she got from Sasori, they were there because of her.
Then look at the reunition with Sasuke, she did nothing again, Sasuke was going to attacker her until yamato blocked off, Naruto felt useless and weak and she felt even worse.
Naruto makes her hopes up again, but she wasnt the same anymore for unknown reasons.
About Naruto transforming any rage feel was capable of making him start transforming the same happened with Gaara.

The problem is Naruto still does not know of this problem of Sakura.

That's why i ignore Sasuke because he only blocks Naruto from confessing to Sakura but he does not need to confess to her to change sakura on the same way Minato did with Kushina.
Minato didnt said "i love you kushina".
Sakura loves Sasuke but what happens if she fall in love with Naruto?

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[KnS]

Ah, but wasn't he going to crack?

Like any reading experience, it's open to interpretation. We got four panels of Naruto's shocked/stricken expression, then one panel of him bowing his head. Is that cracking? I didn't interpret it that way at all. Was he affected by Obito's psychological warfare? Yes. Did I think he was even remotely close to caving? Trashing his nindo? Being in such desperate emotional straits that Hinata, of all people, would be the model of confidence to save him? Absolutely not.

Just a few scenes ago Hinata was completely doubting herself and her abilities, and Naruto had to give her a pep talk -- again. Suddenly in #615 she's portrayed as this strong, confident person who knows Naruto's nindo better than he does? Really, Kishimoto?

I felt Hinata's slap came out of nowhere. I mean, I was glad for her sake -- even cheered for her development -- but it was a total WTF moment (for a lot of us) in terms of how unnecessary it seemed, and how it actually damaged Naruto's credibility as a character and as the hero in his own story.

But I want to look on the bright side. Maybe she will finally stop cowering and stuttering. As I've said, I had sincere hope for her, at least until she thought about how it felt to hold Naruto's hand. IMO that was ridiculous, inappropriate (of both Hinata AND Kishimoto), and a complete turn off.

I know that you like to think that Hinata has no faith in Naruto, unlike Sakura. Yet she was the one who always believed him to be amazing and was inspired by his strength already during the chuunin exams, while the rest of the village still thought Naruto useless. Not to mention that Sakura herself has shown worry for Naruto, too. Think the summit arc. Does Sakura not think Naruto is strong enough to handle everything? Hinata just in this very chapter showed that she understood that Naruto needed something to pull himself back together and a reminder of what was important. Hinata has always believed in Naruto. She believes in this strong and capable Naruto, but she also loved that little failure child as well. She is capable of loving him no matter what. She is loyal and supportive. She has shown that she can also stand up to him and call him out, if necessary. How can this not be what Naruto needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of Naruto and his actions, when needed.

Once again, from a Hinata-centered point of view I can understand what you're saying. I'll even concede that Hinata has faith in Naruto in her own particular way of viewing him. I can accept that Hinata fans believe she understands Naruto best and has magical insight into his true needs and feelings (despite evidence of her chronic doubt in his basic abilities, and a lack of exposure to who he is and how he operates); it is what I would expect from anyone who views the events from her perspective. That's okay by me. To each his own.

Here's what you said about Hinata's feelings for Naruto:

[Hinata] is capable of loving [Naruto] no matter what. She is loyal and supportive. She has shown that she can also stand up to him and call him out, if necessary. How can this not be what Naruto needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of Naruto and his actions, when needed.

Is this 100% true? I'll say yes. Undeniably proven: 1 time(s).

For fun let's try an experiment. Let's take the same sentences and change out the players.

[Sakura] is capable of loving [Sasuke] no matter what. She is loyal and supportive. She has shown that she can also stand up to him and call him out, if necessary. How can this not be what [Sasuke] needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of [Sasuke] and his actions, when needed.

Is this 100% true? I would say it's about 40% true. She loses points because she now doubts Sasuke's path and human decency, she is not supportive of him, and there are signs that her love is not unconditional.

[Sasuke] is capable of loving [Sakura] no matter what. [He] is loyal and supportive. [He] has shown that [he] can also stand up to [Sakura] and call [her] out, if necessary. How can this not be what [Sakura] needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of [Sakura] and [her] actions, when needed.

Is this 100% true? Even 1% true? No.

[Sakura] is capable of loving [Naruto] no matter what. She is loyal and supportive. She has shown that she can also stand up to him and call him out, if necessary. How can this not be what [Naruto] needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of [Naruto] and his actions, when needed.

Is this 100% true? I would say it's about 90%. She loses points for her uncertainty and the "unconditional" part due to her conflicted feelings for Sasuke.

[Naruto] is capable of loving [Hinata] no matter what. [He] is loyal and supportive. [He] has shown that [he] can also stand up to [Hinata] and call [her] out, if necessary. How can this not be what [Hinata] needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of [Hinata] and [her] actions, when needed.

Is this 100% true? I would say it's about 25% true, although it's hard to rate it all considering Naruto has shown no signs whatsoever of considering Hinata a romantic interest. The 25% is because he's loyal and supportive.

[Naruto] is capable of loving [Sakura] no matter what. [He] is loyal and supportive. [He] has shown that [he] can also stand up to [Sakura] and call [her] out, if necessary. How can this not be what [Sakura] needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of [Sakura] and [her] actions, when needed.

Is this 100% true? Yes, 100%. Undeniably proven: X time(s). We'd have to solve for x because Naruto has proven his loyalty and unconditional love for Sakura many times and in many ways.

Flat combined scores on my personally biased rating scale:

SS = 40%
NH = 125%
NS = 190%

So for me it's really just about the math. Jokes aside, I do think the exercise illustrates that so far Hinata is doing all the heaving lifting for NH, and as things currently stand NS has a much greater chance of mutual success than the other pairings. This is nothing new. Will it hold? We shall see. Eventually.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

[Naruto] is capable of loving [Neji] no matter what. [He] is loyal and supportive. [He] has shown that [he] can also stand up to [Neji] and call [him] out, if necessary. How can this not be what [Neji] needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of [Neji] and [his] actions, when needed.

[Neji] is capable of loving [Naruto] no matter what. [He] is loyal and supportive. [He] has shown that [he] can also stand up to [Naruto] and call [him] out, if necessary. How can this not be what [Naruto] needs? Unconditional love yet the ability to be critical of [Naruto] and [his] actions, when needed.

We can pass all the day if you want.

200% for NN
I dont see it as reasons for you to love someome if it has Ino, Tenten, Sakura should have already in love with Naruto.

You dont need to be in love to be loyal and supportive if you need ot be in love to be like this so i have bad news for you.

unconditional love is not the ability to be critical of someome and his actions when needed, unconditional love is when you can sacrifice yourself in order to make someome happy, it has other name.
She would be happy if Naruto ends up with Sakura due to all to her annoying obssession with Naruto?
Different than Hinata, Hinata tried to sacrifice herself for Naruto because she loved him, and this made unconditional but what cant be labelled as this is because she didnt do that for anyone else, in other words she was selfish when she only thought of Naruto when her job is to look for her clanmates.
While Neji did this for Naruto without asking nothing.
Capable of loving is not based on the people's status Sakura didnt has feelings for Naruto just because he's good but because he was at her side when she needed most.

this is one of the many reaons why i dont like NH, Hinata does not know Naruto's problems it has not show a single panel of her concerned about Naruto's problems or about Sasukemo, she wanst supportive all the time most likely she tried for him to take a shortcut.
She didint believe on Naruto's abilities, and dont understand what he's thinking, naruto was thinking about Neji's words and still she slapped him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 11:17 PM.

[StriderC]

Just to remind, though, that Kishi also has pairings other than "the goofball and tsundere". Yahiko and Konan don't really fit into that pattern. Asuma and Kurenai don't, either. Sasuke's mom and dad didn't seem to, either. And obviously, if Kishi goes NH and SS, then his main pairings will have defied that pattern, too.


Bolded: Well, I'm a SS supporter and like NH, so I far from unbiased, but I think he has shown this. Especially with this very chapter. Hinata gave Naruto exactly what he needed in this chapter, inspiration and support. And she has never doubted his abilities. Naruto didn't really need to become a strong ninja or useful for the village for Hinata to see him a great guy. So if acknowledgement is what Naruto wants, Hinata has always given this to him. Though, at first, she was too shy to say so. Hinata is like a living example of how Naruto has changed people for the better.


I'm not expecting anything pairing related from the next chapter, myself. I think we are going to see Hinata and Naruto and the rest fight and that's it. I'm hoping we will get to see Sakura's reaction to NH holding hands, but I'm trying to not get my hopes up.

Sorry but as for the bolded, she sort of has doubted him. More than once actually. Lets compare. I'm only bringing up some of the times I can remember offhand.

1. Chuunin Exams written test.

Offered to help him cheat off of her test. Sure, she was helping but she basically increased his chances of getting caught given he'd just be flat out cheating. No jutsu, or ninja like way of doing so. Just looking dead at her paper and getting the answers. Here, Sakura was about to raise her hand but in the end she herself believed in him.

2. Forest of Death

Sakura of all people used him as a reference. She said "At least Naruto's not a coward", acknowledging him and his determination. Note, this was quite early on in the series.

3. Exams. Neji vs. Naruto

Sakura cheered him on, and her faith in him didn't waver either while Hinatas' did along with all of the other rookies.

4. Exams. Naruto vs Neji

Pretty much the same deal.

5. Meeting with Tobi.

Sakura was the one who had to reassure her that Naruto isn't to be underestimated when he was hit by Tobi.



Between Naruto and Sakura, Sakura only really worries about him when the situation truly calls for it. Him turning into 4 tails, finding out about the extraction of the Jinchuurkis, using the rasen shuriken, his pursuit of Sasuke.

Hinata seems to worry about him whenever she's in the picture with him mostly, and while she believes in him, her faith in him wavers. I definitely agree with KnS though. It seems as though Kishi is trying to make her out to be quite compatible with him given she's cheering him up right now like Sakura has done before.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Bolded: Well, I'm a SS supporter and like NH, so I far from unbiased, but I think he has shown this. Especially with this very chapter. Hinata gave Naruto exactly what he needed in this chapter, inspiration and support. And she has never doubted his abilities. Naruto didn't really need to become a strong ninja or useful for the village for Hinata to see him a great guy. So if acknowledgement is what Naruto wants, Hinata has always given this to him. Though, at first, she was too shy to say so. Hinata is like a living example of how Naruto has changed people for the better.

Looking at this statement looks like it's another manga, made me think why Hinata wasnt on team 7.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 11:22 PM.

[VTamer Taichi]

Attention, du...posters! The debate thread is ---> here. I wish the mods would move this off-topic crap.

Anyway in 616, will Kishimoto continue with the war from this chapter or will he shift to Sasuke and company? That would be hilarious if he did the latter.

Edited by VTamer Taichi, 06 January 2013 - 11:42 PM.

[Moon_Girl]

Sorry but as for the bolded, she sort of has doubted him. More than once actually. Lets compare. I'm only bringing up some of the times I can remember offhand.

1. Chuunin Exams written test.

Offered to help him cheat off of her test. Sure, she was helping but she basically increased his chances of getting caught given he'd just be flat out cheating. No jutsu, or ninja like way of doing so. Just looking dead at her paper and getting the answers. Here, Sakura was about to raise her hand but in the end she herself believed in him.

2. Forest of Death

Sakura of all people used him as a reference. She said "At least Naruto's not a coward", acknowledging him and his determination. Note, this was quite early on in the series.

3. Exams. Neji vs. Naruto

Sakura cheered him on, and her faith in him didn't waver either while Hinatas' did along with all of the other rookies.

4. Exams. Naruto vs Neji

Pretty much the same deal.

5. Meeting with Tobi.

Sakura was the one who had to reassure her that Naruto isn't to be underestimated when he was hit by Tobi.



Between Naruto and Sakura, Sakura only really worries about him when the situation truly calls for it. Him turning into 4 tails, finding out about the extraction of the Jinchuurkis, using the rasen shuriken, his pursuit of Sasuke.

Hinata seems to worry about him whenever she's in the picture with him mostly, and while she believes in him, her faith in him wavers. I definitely agree with KnS though. It seems as though Kishi is trying to make her out to be quite compatible with him given she's cheering him up right now like Sakura has done before.

While it's open for interpretation, I found Hinata's confession to be another example of her lack of belief in Naruto's abilities. True, Naruto needed help, but she really shouldn't have jumped in like that because she knew she stood no chance. Not to mention, she didn't even try to free Naruto from the rods. (Even the anime realized how stupid it was that she didn't do so.)

I've always seen her confession as a "Well, you're screwed but I need to tell you how I feel before you die." and "I can't live without Naruto-kun!"
She did try to protect him, but what else are you going to do? Jump in, confess and leave? I don't know. She didn't even bother to try and free him and instead jumped into a fight she knew she couldn't win. To me that says that she had no faith in Naruto's abilities and decided to get her feelings off her chest before going to die "for Naruto".

Attention, du...posters! The debate thread is ---> here. I wish the mods would move this off topic crap.

Anyway in 616, will Kishimoto continue with the war from this chapter or will he shift to Sasuke and company? That would be hilarious if he did the latter.

@bolded
I see what you did there...

Edited by Moon_Girl, 06 January 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[Qia]

While it's open for interpretation, I found Hinata's confession to be another example of her lack of belief in Naruto's abilities. True, Naruto needed help, but she really shouldn't have jumped in like that because she knew she stood no chance. Not to mention, she didn't even try to free Naruto from the rods. (Even the anime realized how stupid it was that she didn't do so.)

I've always seen her confession as a "Well, you're screwed but I need to tell you how I feel before you die." and "I can't live without Naruto-kun!"
She did try to protect him, but what else are you going to do? Jump in, confess and leave? I don't know. She didn't even bother to try and free him and instead jumped into a fight she knew she couldn't win. To me that says that she had no faith in Naruto's abilities and decided to get her feelings off her chest before going to die "for Naruto".

Is it fair to add this recent chapter to that list of yours as well? He may not have taken Obito's hand then...even though he WAS shocked over Neji dying on his shoulder like that. But...yea, as stated before, it's not the first time Naruto has lost people that are close to him in an instant like that *insert Pein arc here*. I could be wrong....but I feel like if he was given a moment to recollect himself, he wouldn't have.

Edited by Qia, 06 January 2013 - 11:52 PM.