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#28461 Phantom_999

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 11:54 AM

Fair enough. It just seems to me that for such a creator's pet that Sasuke is to Kishi, he seems terribly inconsistent and as you stated is only is important to the story as a "reactive character" which speaks to me that there is no particular drive for him past a certain point. It makes me wonder if someone else had a hand in it because his role was never concise enough to ever seem planned out. If you look at a character that an author or character favors or focuses on, they usually are consistent in the role they are meant to play.  Sasuke isn't. That is all I'm saying


Edited by Phantom_999, 23 January 2020 - 12:03 PM.

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#28462 DrK

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 12:28 PM

Fair enough. It just seems to me that for such a creator's pet that Sasuke is to Kishi, he seems terribly inconsistent and as you stated is only is important to the story as a "reactive character" which speaks to me that there is no particular drive for him past a certain point. It makes me wonder if someone else had a hand in it because his role was never concise enough to ever seem planned out. If you look at a character that an author or character favors or focuses on, they usually are consistent in the role they are meant to play.  Sasuke isn't. That is all I'm saying

Well, an author also tends to be blinded to the flaws of such a character. Like at whichever point you thought (and I'm not saying I don't agree I just kittening hate thinking about his character arc), he began to come off that way, Kishi almost certainly would not pick up on that when you did, doing so later or not at all. It's hard to view something you wrote without a lot of distorting bias.

 

Like... And this shouldn't even apply as much since it's technically Kishi's character and not mine, but when I wrote Sakura, some people said she came off as obsessive, or a Yandere, or unhealthy or whatever. And for the longest time I couldn't even COMPREHEND why they viewed her that way because those ideas never came into my mind as I was writing her. My interpretation of the character was the only one that I could see, because for whatever reason that's just how it is when you write fiction.

 

After I didn't think about it for a long time I finally could see how someone might come to that conclusion... But basically, the author SHOULD be the one who is most acutely aware of how story and character elements look/will be perceived, but most of the time they'll be more BLIND to it than anyone else is.

 

tl;dr: Sasuke probably seemed good in his head.


Edited by DrK, 23 January 2020 - 06:43 PM.


#28463 Phantom_999

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Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:32 PM

Yeah I can agree with that.


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#28464 James S Cassidy

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 02:11 PM

Like... And this shouldn't even apply as much since it's technically Kishi's character and not mine, but when I wrote Sakura, some people said she came off as obsessive, or a Yandere, or unhealthy or whatever.

lol what? How could Sakura be seen as anything like a Yandere? I think these "anime" fans need to branch out of the mainstream comfort zone if they think a character like Sakura is a Yandere or that they see Tsundere as abusive.

These fans need to watch Future Diary and Tora Dora

 


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#28465 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 04:42 PM

lol what? How could Sakura be seen as anything like a Yandere? I think these "anime" fans need to branch out of the mainstream comfort zone if they think a character like Sakura is a Yandere or that they see Tsundere as abusive.
These fans need to watch Future Diary and Tora Dora

Here's a question think if you asked an NH fan what is so wrong with Naruto and Sakura getting together think they'd have an answer.

#28466 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 06:24 PM

Here's a question think if you asked an NH fan what is so wrong with Naruto and Sakura getting together think they'd have an answer.

 

I'd say that they'd not have a good answer just because they WANT to hate Sakura for no good reason other than shes in the way of their precious pairing. Makes me realize I should just say **** it! to what they would say to me for my fanfic and get ready to post it.


Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 24 January 2020 - 11:18 PM.


#28467 DrK

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 11:09 PM

Id say that theyd not have a good answer just because they WANT to hate Sakura for no good reason other than shes in the way of their precious pairing. Makes me realize I should just say **** it! to what they would say to me for my fanfic and get ready to post it.

... Why would you even care to begin with? To be honest I think every single negative comment I've ever received was from someone who likes NS or at least their idea of it. What kind of scathing review are you expecting to get? "This sucks because it's not misanthropic garbage... I mean, what I like." Who cares, dude? Even if they did say that, I can't imagine how it could possibly bother you in any way?


Edited by DrK, 24 January 2020 - 11:11 PM.


#28468 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 11:15 PM

... Why would you even care to begin with? To be honest I think every single negative comment I've ever received was from someone who likes NS or at least their idea of it. What kind of scathing review are you expecting to get? "This sucks because it's not misanthropic garbage... I mean, what I like." Who cares, dude? Even if they did say that, I can't imagine how it could possibly bother you in any way?

 

The only reason why I'd care is because I got a lot of anxiety and depression issues, plus there's the fact too that I've seen how fan toxicity can drive people nuts, like how the Steven Universe fandom had driven someone to almost kill themselves because she drew one of the characters "too thin", or how bad things get in other fandoms. I don't NEED that kinda drama.



#28469 DrK

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 11:28 PM

 

The only reason why I'd care is because I got a lot of anxiety and depression issues, plus there's the fact too that I've seen how fan toxicity can drive people nuts, like how the Steven Universe fandom had driven someone to almost kill themselves because she drew one of the characters "too thin", or how bad things get in other fandoms. I don't NEED that kinda drama.

Yeah but lots of people are going to dislike anything you write. Do you think that I (or someone else, if you want) would enjoy every single word you've written on this forum for instance? That's just a part of life. I remember once James made me look absolutely FOOLISH because I tried to posit an argument about Superman without knowing what I was talking about. But that kind of thing is just going to happen! If you say/do/write something stupid, or that someone doesn't like for stupid REASONS, it's a necessary thing to be able to just move on from that. Because a safe space where everyone approves of anything you do just doesn't exist, except maybe the household you grew up in (if you're very lucky)

 

I don't mean to give you a hard time. But if you want to do something I'd encourage you to just forget about other human beings and do it, that is if you truly feel it's worth doing.



#28470 Tsuki Hoshino

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 02:47 AM

I'm just saying if you're afraid of criticism you can always turn off commentary, the downside being that when you do so you cut yourself off from growth in the process.

Yes it sucks when you pour hours into something and someone comes along and kittens all over it--sometimes warranted and often not, but someone writing kitten on the internet cannot hurt you unless you allow it.

In the words of Mama tsu; "you can't control what others say or do but you can control how you react."

She was right :zaru:

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#28471 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 03:40 AM

I'd say that they'd not have a good answer just because they WANT to hate Sakura for no good reason other than shes in the way of their precious pairing. Makes me realize I should just say **** it! to what they would say to me for my fanfic and get ready to post it.


That's not a reason I mean what would happen if Naruto got with konan or temari.

#28472 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 05:26 AM

Yeah but lots of people are going to dislike anything you write. Do you think that I (or someone else, if you want) would enjoy every single word you've written on this forum for instance? That's just a part of life. I remember once James made me look absolutely FOOLISH because I tried to posit an argument about Superman without knowing what I was talking about. But that kind of thing is just going to happen! If you say/do/write something stupid, or that someone doesn't like for stupid REASONS, it's a necessary thing to be able to just move on from that. Because a safe space where everyone approves of anything you do just doesn't exist, except maybe the household you grew up in (if you're very lucky)

 

I don't mean to give you a hard time. But if you want to do something I'd encourage you to just forget about other human beings and do it, that is if you truly feel it's worth doing.

 

 

I'm just saying if you're afraid of criticism you can always turn off commentary, the downside being that when you do so you cut yourself off from growth in the process.

Yes it sucks when you pour hours into something and someone comes along and kittens all over it--sometimes warranted and often not, but someone writing kitten on the internet cannot hurt you unless you allow it.

In the words of Mama tsu; "you can't control what others say or do but you can control how you react."

She was right :zaru:

 

Trust me, guys, the more I've thought about it, I've realized I want to get this out for all of us NaruSaku fans, not for the haters and because this is something my friend Kurt (also my collaborator) and I have worked on for so long, adjusting over time, making it more our own thing than how we thought the series was gonna be at the time it was happening. I want to do a fanfic where I can go out longer than I have, and to be reminded why people here at H&E had dubbed me a "Cliffhanger Bastard" or "Magnificent Bastard".



#28473 Phantom_999

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 04:02 PM

lol what? How could Sakura be seen as anything like a Yandere? I think these "anime" fans need to branch out of the mainstream comfort zone if they think a character like Sakura is a Yandere or that they see Tsundere as abusive.

These fans need to watch Future Diary and Tora Dora

 
I get this feeling that THEY DO, and still have those double standards. That is how much they want to hate Sakura. logic be damned. In any, case anime logic is a funny thing when it come to these character archetypes. They are constantly mixed up, as in some characters is called so and so when they are not, others are said not to be "what they are", the terms are used VERY LOOSELY and in idiotic illogical ways, most hypocritically of all, fans will LOVE ONE CHARACTER For displaying such character traits but BASH ANOTHER for having those exact same character traits. And it doesn't extend to characters, it extends to the very story and plot elements a lot of the time too. That is what I don't even want to get involved with he anime community. I just like what I like and only talk about my subjects of interest to others that are willing to discuss it, CIVILLY
 
 

Here's a question think if you asked an NH fan what is so wrong with Naruto and Sakura getting together think they'd have an answer.

 
Sakura was always mean to Naruto and doesn't deserve him, Hinata is sexilicous and always loved Naruto and would do anything for him.Or how Naruto and Sakura only act like Brother and Sister to each other.

If you find ANY ARGUMENT that is not those, I'd be surprised and self-shave off ten years of my life :zaru: :lmao:


Edited by Phantom_999, 25 January 2020 - 04:11 PM.

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#28474 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 06:11 PM

 I get this feeling that THEY DO, and still have those double standards. That is how much they want to hate Sakura. logic be damned. In any, case anime logic is a funny thing when it come to these character archetypes. They are constantly mixed up, as in some characters is called so and so when they are not, others are said not to be "what they are", the terms are used VERY LOOSELY and in idiotic illogical ways, most hypocritically of all, fans will LOVE ONE CHARACTER For displaying such character traits but BASH ANOTHER for having those exact same character traits. And it doesn't extend to characters, it extends to the very story and plot elements a lot of the time too. That is what I don't even want to get involved with he anime community. I just like what I like and only talk about my subjects of interest to others that are willing to discuss it, CIVILLY

 

EXACTLY!!! As HalfDemonInuyasha said, these people also may like other tsundere characters in the anime world and yet when it comes to Sakura, they tend to be all hateful to her just because of how Naruto is meant to be sympathetic, and how cruel she came off before she started to get better after Sasuke admonished her in the third chapter/episode after he showed up once he got loose after Naruto had taken him by surprise and tied him up.



#28475 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 04:27 AM

I get this feeling that THEY DO, and still have those double standards. That is how much they want to hate Sakura. logic be damned. In any, case anime logic is a funny thing when it come to these character archetypes. They are constantly mixed up, as in some characters is called so and so when they are not, others are said not to be "what they are", the terms are used VERY LOOSELY and in idiotic illogical ways, most hypocritically of all, fans will LOVE ONE CHARACTER For displaying such character traits but BASH ANOTHER for having those exact same character traits. And it doesn't extend to characters, it extends to the very story and plot elements a lot of the time too. That is what I don't even want to get involved with he anime community. I just like what I like and only talk about my subjects of interest to others that are willing to discuss it, CIVILLY
 
 

 
Sakura was always mean to Naruto and doesn't deserve him, Hinata is sexilicous and always loved Naruto and would do anything for him.Or how Naruto and Sakura only act like Brother and Sister to each other.
If you find ANY ARGUMENT that is not those, I'd be surprised and self-shave off ten years of my life :zaru: :lmao:

That's dumb I mean Sakura can change she started to as part 1 went on. Plus how would they know we never got to see how they would be together.

#28476 DrK

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 04:41 AM

This might disappoint you guys, but the guy who said the Yandere thing actually loved what I wrote and wanted me to make her even more like one (I guess.)

 

And I still don't really understand where that in particular came from. I even included a scene (which would also probably disappoint you guys) where Hinata bitterly guilt trips Sakura and Sakura doesn't do a damn thing about it. Not sure how someone would view that character as a Yandere or even CLOSE to being a Yandere. Of any variety.


Edited by DrK, 26 January 2020 - 04:43 AM.


#28477 RulesofNature

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 05:11 AM

 

The only reason why I'd care is because I got a lot of anxiety and depression issues, plus there's the fact too that I've seen how fan toxicity can drive people nuts, like how the Steven Universe fandom had driven someone to almost kill themselves because she drew one of the characters "too thin", or how bad things get in other fandoms. I don't NEED that kinda drama.

I stopped going to the Fire Emblem subreddit because, well, Edelgard fans are a lot like Hinata fans and are projecting onto the game. And it turns out that I'm not alone, and it's the main users driving people away are well known outside of reddit.

 

But I think this is sadly the reality of online discussion. Either positive or negative, if you're going to discuss it with strangers on the internet your feelings are going to be a lot more extreme than the general public's. Not only that, but there's also the sense of validation that comes with having your opinions agreed with. It's a very bad mix for discourse all together.


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#28478 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 09:27 AM

I stopped going to the Fire Emblem subreddit because, well, Edelgard fans are a lot like Hinata fans and are projecting onto the game. And it turns out that I'm not alone, and it's the main users driving people away are well known outside of reddit.

 

But I think this is sadly the reality of online discussion. Either positive or negative, if you're going to discuss it with strangers on the internet your feelings are going to be a lot more extreme than the general public's. Not only that, but there's also the sense of validation that comes with having your opinions agreed with. It's a very bad mix for discourse all together.

 

I know how you feel, man. I know I want to go for it, yet you also can't blame a guy for being irritated with just how insane some people are, without any middle ground or grey area.



#28479 DrK

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 10:53 AM

 

I know how you feel, man. I know I want to go for it, yet you also can't blame a guy for being irritated with just how insane some people are, without any middle ground or grey area.

Bryon, please don't take this the wrong way as I really do mean it in the nicest way possible, but as someone who's written (entirely shameless) things for this pairing, I can't relate to where you're coming from at all. And I know of at least one person who completely LOST their motivation for writing because of something someone (who they thought generally liked NS/their work) said.

 

If you can easily brand someone as a nutcase because of their views on this franchise (or any other, or anything else in general) their criticism is almost completely USELESS. It will (whether it was justified or not) just slide off you like water, generally. But if someone who you felt thought the same way as you do says they don't like what you did, that can be very DISTURBING. It's human nature to give in to that sense of validation (the sort of echo chamber that I think Rules was alluding to, that of being agreed with), and when someone dares to say "Yeah, this is supposed to be what I like, but it still SUCKS"... That is what might be hard to process.

 

Not some rambling fool(s) moaning about "I can't believe you wrote this when Naruto never really loved Sakura, herp derp!"... Whom I feel the need to reiterate that I've never encountered. Again no offense and this is the last time I'll bring this up, but I would just reexamine what it is you're really worried about in regards to this. Because if the above is actually your worst fear then I feel you haven't really thought this through.


Edited by DrK, 26 January 2020 - 11:36 AM.


#28480 Phantom_999

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 06:04 PM

I stopped going to the Fire Emblem subreddit because, well, Edelgard fans are a lot like Hinata fans and are projecting onto the game. And it turns out that I'm not alone, and it's the main users driving people away are well known outside of reddit.
 
But I think this is sadly the reality of online discussion. Either positive or negative, if you're going to discuss it with strangers on the internet your feelings are going to be a lot more extreme than the general public's. Not only that, but there's also the sense of validation that comes with having your opinions agreed with. It's a very bad mix for discourse all together.

 
I NEVER WENT to the fire emblem subreddit because 1. my brother already experienced its toxicity and told me about it countless times, and 2. I already had a feeling that many would be mindless "waifu" worshippers. I've experienced it from from many anime and Japanese games, which again is why I don't bother with discussions unless I know the person is someone that cares about more than those things  

Edited by Phantom_999, 29 January 2020 - 07:07 AM.

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