31714 replies to this topic

[VanitasDS76491]

That's true. Although that is another extremity in that Toriyama DIDN'T like Vegeta at all initially and never understood why he is so popular, so he ragged on him in the story, but ever since changed his mind. No, I feel that a rival should be used to push the MC to greater heights and challenge them but not be favored over the MC by the author (Sasuke, Bakugo) nor should they be worfed just to make the MC look better (Vegeta, at least in Dragon ball Z). That's just my opinion anyway

Now that's true but with Sasuke any power up Naruto got didn't really matter since Sasuke got randomly got stronger. So then it didn't matter.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Now that's true but with Sasuke any power up Naruto got didn't really matter since Sasuke got randomly got stronger. So then it didn't matter.

 

Agreed, but Sasuke was still much weaker, since he kept almost dying in so many of his battles, while Naruto hardly did in several battles later in Shippuden after Sasuke came back. Exhibit A!! Sasuke needing to sacrifice Manda to save his sorry ass from Deidara's final Explosion. Exhibit B!! The fact Itachi, even when dying from his illness and his eyesight super weakened, was able to basically back him into a corner, and even Obito saying Sasuke would have lost to Itachi if he didn't hold back. Exhibit C!! Killer Bee wrecking Sasuke not just with his swords, BUT also Gyuki's chakra and Sasuke needing Jugo, Karin, and Suigetsu to help him.

 

It's just the sad fact that even as much as Kishimoto favored Sasuke so much, Sasuke still was seen, even for being supposedly more powerful, being more easily outclassed in several battles.

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 02 December 2019 - 02:03 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Agreed, but Sasuke was still much weaker, since he kept almost dying in so many of his battles, while Naruto hardly did in several battles later in Shippuden after Sasuke came back. Exhibit A!! Sasuke needing to sacrifice Manda to save his sorry ass from Deidara's final Explosion. Exhibit B!! The fact Itachi, even when dying from his illness and his eyesight super weakened, was able to basically back him into a corner, and even Obito saying Sasuke would have lost to Itachi if he didn't hold back. Exhibit C!! Killer Bee wrecking Sasuke not just with his swords, BUT also Gyuki's chakra and Sasuke needing Jugo, Karin, and Suigetsu to help him.
 
It's just the sad fact that even as much as Kishimoto favored Sasuke so much, Sasuke still was seen, even for being supposedly more powerful, being more easily outclassed in several battles.

True Sasuke wins are mostly bs anyway save maybe danzo. Unlike vegeta and hiei cause vegeta pretty much had most the wins on namek save freeza.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

True Sasuke wins are mostly bs anyway save maybe danzo. Unlike vegeta and hiei cause vegeta pretty much had most the wins on namek save freeza.

 

Yep. And Recoome as well, given Recoome steamrolled him, broke every bone in Krillin's body (even though Recoome said he wanted to kick his head off), and broke Gohan's neck before Goku arrived to help them. And he did get bodied by Zarbon but due to how Saiyans are, he came back stronger and managed to finish him. At least as it was for Vegeta, even if he was frustrated by losing due to his pride, he still tried to come back even stronger than before, even if he got super impatient about getting stronger when it came to Goku surpassing him after he realized he was a Super Saiyan when he fought Recoome.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

Kishi favors Sasuke like kitten Vitale favors Duke.

[VanitasDS76491]

Yep. And Recoome as well, given Recoome steamrolled him, broke every bone in Krillin's body (even though Recoome said he wanted to kick his head off), and broke Gohan's neck before Goku arrived to help them. And he did get bodied by Zarbon but due to how Saiyans are, he came back stronger and managed to finish him. At least as it was for Vegeta, even if he was frustrated by losing due to his pride, he still tried to come back even stronger than before, even if he got super impatient about getting stronger when it came to Goku surpassing him after he realized he was a Super Saiyan when he fought Recoome.

Ya vegeta killed cui, dordia, zorbon, guldo, recoome, burter and jice,

[James S Cassidy]

That's true. Although that is another extremity in that Toriyama DIDN'T like Vegeta at all initially and never understood why he is so popular, so he ragged on him in the story, but ever since changed his mind. No, I feel that a rival should be used to push the MC to greater heights and challenge them but not be favored over the MC by the author (Sasuke, Bakugo) nor should they be worfed just to make the MC look better (Vegeta, at least in Dragon ball Z). That's just my opinion anyway

Vegeta is popular because, unlike Goku who never seemed to have any consequences, he got kicked around alot and still was willing to stand up with pride and faith in his beliefs. This is a dude who gave a kitten about his own race from another universe so much that he wanted to teach them and save them so they can be strong too. 

"But Goku is the hero."

No, he isn't. Goku is just an idiot thrill seeker who just so happen to do good in the process and if he some how loses a fight, they just wish everything okay again with the dragon balls.

Oh the plot saving, desu ex machina, dragon balls.

[Tsuki Hoshino]

This is why I really never cared about Dragon Ball and my least favorite character has always been Goku. 

[VanitasDS76491]

Vegeta is popular because, unlike Goku who never seemed to have any consequences, he got kicked around alot and still was willing to stand up with pride and faith in his beliefs. This is a dude who gave a kitten about his own race from another universe so much that he wanted to teach them and save them so they can be strong too. 
"But Goku is the hero."
No, he isn't. Goku is just an idiot thrill seeker who just so happen to do good in the process and if he some how loses a fight, they just wish everything okay again with the dragon balls.
Oh the plot saving, desu ex machina, dragon balls.

Yes vegeta has actual development and loses unlike goku. Goku never develops in z save maybe once when Gohan fought cell. Piccolo had more development than goku.
Goku is just a awful character.

[Kagomaru]

 

Agreed, but Sasuke was still much weaker, since he kept almost dying in so many of his battles, while Naruto hardly did in several battles later in Shippuden after Sasuke came back. Exhibit A!! Sasuke needing to sacrifice Manda to save his sorry ass from Deidara's final Explosion. Exhibit B!! The fact Itachi, even when dying from his illness and his eyesight super weakened, was able to basically back him into a corner, and even Obito saying Sasuke would have lost to Itachi if he didn't hold back. Exhibit C!! Killer Bee wrecking Sasuke not just with his swords, BUT also Gyuki's chakra and Sasuke needing Jugo, Karin, and Suigetsu to help him.

 

It's just the sad fact that even as much as Kishimoto favored Sasuke so much, Sasuke still was seen, even for being supposedly more powerful, being more easily outclassed in several battles.

Additionally, Sasuke himself noted (to his frustration) that Naruto had surpassed him again during the Fourth Shinobi War before he and Naruto temporarily "died" and received a power-up from the Sage.  Basically, anytime Naruto got ahead of Sasuke, Kishimoto would always invent a new situation that would allow him a huge boost to his stats and abilities, even if it was founded on BS.  

[Tsuki Hoshino]

But lyke its totally necessary because dey have to fight at dah end  

[TheFirstEvil100]

But didnt Kishi favour all of the Uchiha clan?

[VanitasDS76491]

But didnt Kishi favour all of the Uchiha clan?

Mostly Sasuke, obito and madara and maybe itachi.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Yes vegeta has actual development and loses unlike goku. Goku never develops in z save maybe once when Gohan fought cell. Piccolo had more development than goku.
Goku is just a awful character.

Heck, Vegeta actually cried on Namek just before dying. Has Goku ever actually seriously cried over anyone or anything? Or just rage into a new power-up?

[Kagomaru]

He actually cried over Master Roshi when he nearly died during the Tournament of Power.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Moving on I do think NH fans don't give a kitten about character growth I mean look at Hinata she never changes, nor does she really affect the story that much I mean let me ask you all this what importance does Hinata have in the story, please tell me I'll wait for your answers. .

[totherpage95]

there's a nh fan on youtube doing reactions with her mom who skipped the episode where naruto talks to hinata on the way to fight neji she considers the episode a filler I wonder if it's because her mom liked narusaku and she told her mom hinata was naruto's girlfriend or something and that's the episode naruto says hinata is this dark weirdo (even though this takes place after neji almost killed hinata naruto is brutally honest)

Edited by totherpage95, 03 December 2019 - 11:18 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Heck, Vegeta actually cried on Namek just before dying. Has Goku ever actually seriously cried over anyone or anything? Or just rage into a new power-up?

 

When Master Roshi almost died during the Tournament of Power as said before, as well as when Krillin died at the hands of Tamborine when King Piccolo made his move. And also technically when Frieza wounded Piccolo then killed Krillin in front of him to go Super Saiyan. Goku just needed a lot more development, but we didn't see much of it as we did. But we saw too even for his flaws, he loves his family so much, considering his willingness to sacrifice himself when Cell was going to self-destruct when Gohan just toyed with him when he went Super Saiyan 2 the first time, as well as the anime having him kiss Chichi good-bye before he went to prepare to go to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to train with Gohan before the Cell Games, as well as his interaction with Goten when he first met him.

 

 

Additionally, Sasuke himself noted (to his frustration) that Naruto had surpassed him again during the Fourth Shinobi War before he and Naruto temporarily "died" and received a power-up from the Sage.  Basically, anytime Naruto got ahead of Sasuke, Kishimoto would always invent a new situation that would allow him a huge boost to his stats and abilities, even if it was founded on BS.  

 

Yeah, that always pissed me off too. We see it too when Sasuke sees the destructive power the Rasengan has, even if it isn't meant to fully kill an opponent like the Chidori, BUT the force of the blast from the release of the chakra can kill someone. The part that's also frustrating about that whole thing, on top of what i described, is how Kakashi made it seem worse that Naruto learned a Jutsu that HIS OWN FATHER created and said it was too soon for him to have it, but it's A-OK to teach Sasuke something like the Chidori when he knew Sasuke was mentally unstable due to his superiority-inferiority complex as well as his desire for revenge.

[Kagomaru]

 

When Master Roshi almost died during the Tournament of Power as said before, as well as when Krillin died at the hands of Tamborine when King Piccolo made his move. And also technically when Frieza wounded Piccolo then killed Krillin in front of him to go Super Saiyan. Goku just needed a lot more development, but we didn't see much of it as we did. But we saw too even for his flaws, he loves his family so much, considering his willingness to sacrifice himself when Cell was going to self-destruct when Gohan just toyed with him when he went Super Saiyan 2 the first time, as well as the anime having him kiss Chichi good-bye before he went to prepare to go to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to train with Gohan before the Cell Games, as well as his interaction with Goten when he first met him.

 

 

 

Yeah, that always pissed me off too. We see it too when Sasuke sees the destructive power the Rasengan has, even if it isn't meant to fully kill an opponent like the Chidori, BUT the force of the blast from the release of the chakra can kill someone. The part that's also frustrating about that whole thing, on top of what i described, is how Kakashi made it seem worse that Naruto learned a Jutsu that HIS OWN FATHER created and said it was too soon for him to have it, but it's A-OK to teach Sasuke something like the Chidori when he knew Sasuke was mentally unstable due to his superiority-inferiority complex as well as his desire for revenge.

On top of the fact he was still afflicted by Orochimaru's cursed seal. Yeah, this is why I've said Kakashi's favoritism was a contributing factor to Sasuke being driven over the edge.

Edited by Kagomaru, 04 December 2019 - 04:01 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

On top of the fact he was still afflicted by Orochimaru's cursed seal. Yeah, this is why I've said Kakashi's favoritism was a contributing factor to Sasuke being driven over the edge.

 

I imagine the Curse Mark as well as the beating from Itachi and Sasuke's inability to deal with the fact there is always someone better than you didn't help much, and I like to think that the flow of natural energy, given the Curse Mark's origins stemming from Jugo's blood, added to Sasuke's inferiority-superiority complex, as did learning a Jutsu like the Chidori.