4869 replies to this topic

[Cupcake-chan]

Why would she commit Suicide?

I'll put it this way: fighting Sasuke is like commiting suicide. Sakura doesn't stand a chance against him (tho i'd love to see her kick his arse).

[RyrineaHaruno]

I'll put it this way: fighting Sasuke is like commiting suicide. Sakura doesn't stand a chance against him (tho i'd love to see her kick his arse).

Excuse me, she does a lest stand a chance, since Sasuke has a big ego, and will let down his guard.

[catsi563]

also you have to take into account battle themes. If Sakura battles for the right reasons she will win the battle even if she loses the fight.

remember Sasuke so far has not won a single battle hes been in. hes either survived it or lost the critical theme of the fight. Sasuke manga theme wise is fighting for all the wrong reasons. thus like Orochimaru vrs the Sandaime he will lose the battle even if he wins the fight.

what will be important for sakura is the theme of the battle in question. if she goes into it for a selfish reason like wanting to die because Sasuke-kun no longer loves me. then shell lose badly.

if she goes in with the right theme such as protecting naruto and discovering her true feelings for him, then shell win the battle even if Sasuke dedeats her.

you have to keep this in mind. the eastern mindset is full of these types of themes in storytelling. where a person is defeated in a fight ((thus seeming to lose to the western viewer)) but wins the larger battle ((thus being victorious to the eastern mindset))

Orochimaru vrs the Sandaime was a prime example of this. even though orochimaru was clearly more powerful, and as skilled. the Sandaime wnet agaisnt him to protect the village and its people ((correct theme to join battle with))

in the end Sandaime sacraficed himself to seal orochimarus arms and forced Orochimaru to retreat thus winning the battle. even though he died and orocimaru lived.

so technincally Orochimaru could be said to have won the fight since he lived and Sandaime died. however thematically he lost the battle for Konoha.

Sakura now faces the same situation. the theme Kishimoto decides to choose for the battle will ultimately decide whether she comes out on top or not. It wont be as simple as she punches him with her monstrous strength and he coughs up blood and keels over.though we may get to see that very thing happen.

[firegirl]

also you have to take into account battle themes. If Sakura battles for the right reasons she will win the battle even if she loses the fight.

remember Sasuke so far has not won a single battle hes been in. hes either survived it or lost the critical theme of the fight. Sasuke manga theme wise is fighting for all the wrong reasons. thus like Orochimaru vrs the Sandaime he will lose the battle even if he wins the fight.

what will be important for sakura is the theme of the battle in question. if she goes into it for a selfish reason like wanting to die because Sasuke-kun no longer loves me. then shell lose badly.

if she goes in with the right theme such as protecting naruto and discovering her true feelings for him, then shell win the battle even if Sasuke dedeats her.

you have to keep this in mind. the eastern mindset is full of these types of themes in storytelling. where a person is defeated in a fight ((thus seeming to lose to the western viewer)) but wins the larger battle ((thus being victorious to the eastern mindset))

Orochimaru vrs the Sandaime was a prime example of this. even though orochimaru was clearly more powerful, and as skilled. the Sandaime wnet agaisnt him to protect the village and its people ((correct theme to join battle with))

in the end Sandaime sacraficed himself to seal orochimarus arms and forced Orochimaru to retreat thus winning the battle. even though he died and orocimaru lived.

so technincally Orochimaru could be said to have won the fight since he lived and Sandaime died. however thematically he lost the battle for Konoha.

Sakura now faces the same situation. the theme Kishimoto decides to choose for the battle will ultimately decide whether she comes out on top or not. It wont be as simple as she punches him with her monstrous strength and he coughs up blood and keels over.though we may get to see that very thing happen.

right we dont what kishi will put if we ever have a Sakura Vs sasuke

danm i ask too many quetions

ok i just reread chapter 469 and found something

it seems to me that sakura infact gave up on sasuke

she stated that he BREAKS her heart and with the revelations of learning naruto feelings causes pain to him AND herself. when she said this she had a solem look like a look of giving up.

she also stated that she at peace with naruto that she can touch him when she said that she was blushing and smileing.

it seems that she really picked naruto, because she wants all of his and her and sasuke pain to end, but from looking at all these chapters together it seems impossible to still be in love with sasuke if she feels pain from him that shows that SS since sasuke still dosent care aboutor love which was shown even in part 1 is not gonna happen

and just to say before the SS confession I jused to been an SasuSaku fangirl

so really i dont se her being in love with ever it has been an obsseion in part one and has been slowly dieing.

and agin chapter 474 is all sai specilation of what sakura is doing.

so what do u think?
but it seems she realy chose naruto since he gives her peace

Edited by firegirl, 26 December 2009 - 09:02 PM.

[catsi563]

he does give her peace thats pretty obvious from their interactions both pre shippuden and shippuden itself.

as to Sasuke she does love him. ive allready explained my reasons which primarily involved the bench scene where Naruto made her dream of being acknowledged by Sasuke come true.

the love she feels for Sasuke is real, Naruto made sure of that. but the problem is that it is based on an Illusion. The illusion of a kind gentle sasuke who acknowledged her and her dreams.

that illusion is whats driving her current actions. along with her desire to protect naruto and her feelings for him.

[firegirl]

he does give her peace thats pretty obvious from their interactions both pre shippuden and shippuden itself.

as to Sasuke she does love him. ive allready explained my reasons which primarily involved the bench scene where Naruto made her dream of being acknowledged by Sasuke come true.

the love she feels for Sasuke is real, Naruto made sure of that. but the problem is that it is based on an Illusion. The illusion of a kind gentle sasuke who acknowledged her and her dreams.

that illusion is whats driving her current actions. along with her desire to protect naruto and her feelings for him.

i dont want to argu but to me it is becasue when confessing to sasuke she wasent even thinking of the bench seen she was thinking of her self. i hope u see where im getting at. people say she was confessing her true feelings and again i was a SS fan while reading the confession. it seemed like a joke. the whole confession seemed like a pitiful joke.

sakura is my favorit character and wha i read t saw was shocking and dissapointing. the confession really made her out to be a fan girl not a girl in love. if she was thinking about the sasuke illusion naruto did then she would of said that in her confession to sasuke. she would of mention to him about it. but instead she bribe him to stay for her love, it was a last attempt. she screamed it out.

it wasent her first option to confess all her feelings were still a mess during that confession.

she wasent ready, thats why she started crying, she wanted him to stay because she would be lonely and sad. well she has friends a damily and another good teammate but her obesseion with sasuke is coulding her mind when she confessed.

thats why i am so into these confesions with the body languge and words look together carfully you can see something others cant.

i hope u understand i dont want to fight

Edited by firegirl, 26 December 2009 - 10:53 PM.

[Cupcake-chan]

@ Catsi -> here's the thing, I believe that sakura might win because of the right reasons, and not for her own selfish reasons, but what was trying to say is that she might win the war, but the chances of her losing the fight are very high. not that I want her to die or anything, because she's my favorite character. I think that Sakura knows that it's a one sided fight, and that if she loses, everything she worked for will go down the drain. But she'll still fight Sasuke, despite the concequences, and that, somewhat, worries me, because it's pretty much commiting suicide. Although, her actions are proving her true love to Naruto: she would die so that he can be happy.

@ Ryrinea -> nope, Sakura doesn't stand a chance fighting against Sasuke. He has susano, the flawless shield, so she wouldn't be able to land a hit. She would only, really, stand a chance if she knew genjutsu, something we don't know if she knows or not. But Sasuke has the Sharingan, and with it her chances of defeating Sasuke are even smaller. And that's what I think, tho it would be great to see her kick his butt.

[X105]

i dont want to argu but to me it is becasue when confessing to sasuke she wasent even thinking of the bench seen she was thinking of her self. i hope u see where im getting at. people say she was confessing her true feelings and again i was a SS fan while reading the confession. it seemed like a joke. the whole confession seemed like a pitiful joke.

sakura is my favorit character and wha i read t saw was shocking and dissapointing. the confession really made her out to be a fan girl not a girl in love. if she was thinking about the sasuke illusion naruto did then she would of said that in her confession to sasuke. she would of mention to him about it. but instead she bribe him to stay for her love, it was a last attempt. she screamed it out.

it wasent her first option to confess all her feelings were still a mess during that confession.

she wasent ready, thats why she started crying, she wanted him to stay because she would be lonely and sad. well she has friends a damily and another good teammate but her obesseion with sasuke is coulding her mind when she confessed.

thats why i am so into these confesions with the body languge and words look together carfully you can see something others cant.

i hope u understand i dont want to fight

But you forget the bench scene was the first thing she asked Sasuke about before he left, about the first day they became a team. The bench scene was also in Naruto's flashback in 469. I have no doubt chapter 3 will be crucial because of how important it was in setting the relationships between all of team 7. I believe Kishimoto had an overall plot devised for the manga when he started and chapter 3 is where the basic subplot of the team 7 love triangle begins, all the following developments have been means to an end. I recall in chapter two that Naruto and Konohamaru talk about fighting for hokage one day. I have no doubt that will appear in the manga as well. A good understanding of the beginning really helps in understanding a story.

[firegirl]

But you forget the bench scene was the first thing she asked Sasuke about before he left, about the first day they became a team. The bench scene was also in Naruto's flashback in 469. I have no doubt chapter 3 will be crucial because of how important it was in setting the relationships between all of team 7. I believe Kishimoto had an overall plot devised for the manga when he started and chapter 3 is where the basic subplot of the team 7 love triangle begins, all the following developments have been means to an end. I recall in chapter two that Naruto and Konohamaru talk about fighting for hokage one day. I have no doubt that will appear in the manga as well. A good understanding of the beginning really helps in understanding a story.

hm thanks now i understands what he means but it still dosent seem she still madly in love with sasuke but well see i guess

[X105]

I agree. She is still in love with Sasuke but kishimoto set up the development between Sakura and Naruto to eventually resolve chapter 3 and end with Narusaku. Now once Sakura's figured everything out does not mean that Naruto will have, so you could still have a ways to go until Naruto recognizes Sakura's affection. Kishimoto may have Sakura figure out her feelings and then draw it out by separating Naruto and Sakura for quite a bit of time...I am sure he will use some interesting plot devices along the rest of the way.

Edited by X105, 27 December 2009 - 05:30 AM.

[tricksie]

To me, the body language in the NS confession scene is so different from any of the other confession scenes (SS and NH), and reinforces narusaku.

They are in each other's faces, hands on shoulders, sharing the same panel. Kishi gives you a real sense of intimacy in the drawings (not the character's intimacy, but in the viewer's close-up perspective). The bench scene was as well as Hinata's scene were with one of the character's behind, and the other ahead and facing the other direction, in general.

And I'm always surprised at the body language between Naruto and Sakura. The one that stands out is in 452 where they have the confrontation with Omoi and Karui. Naruto first pushes Sakura out of they way when they point the sword at her, then creates a clone so he's able to catch her when she after she was kicked.

His body language is that very openly protective of her, not at all like another teammate but more of a romantic interest. He's squatting behind her with an arm out in front of her yelling at her attackers. And the rest of the panels are tightly cropped with the two of them together. Even if it's just Sakura's face, you can see Naruto's clothes right behind her head. This is very intimate drawing. As readers, it's really impressed upon us that she is basically in Naruto's lap.

And the next chapter, they are still in the same position, with Naruto squatting behind her very closely. Now, you can see his one leg fully and his other knee peeking out the other side from behind her. That means he's really close to her - he's not just kneeling behind her, but as close as he could possibly without picking her up. And again, all the panels are a drawn with a tight focus on the two of them. So to have this same position continued in the next chapter, even after she's out of physical danger, really stands out. She's accepting of this physical closeness, too, sitting for a long time in Naruto's body space, neither of them moving away out of awkwardness. (I feel like if it were Sai, Sakura would have thanked him and stood right up.)

I don't think there are other characters in this manga who are portrayed with such physical closeness as Naruto and Sakura. There have been times where there is physical contact that goes above a teammate way, like Sakura's hug of Sasuke when he errupted with the curse mark (part 1), but these types of physical contact are one-time only and happen within the context of the situation. NaruSaku contact happens over and over and over.

So, when I think/read about other ships (SS, NH) I keep going back to body language as another strike against other pairings. There has been no other portrayal of intimacy the way there is for Naruto and Sakura.

I know that the messages from these scenes and others are not always supporting a narusaku relationship (the chappy above has her sniffling over Sasuke, and she leaves her sentence unfinished so we don't know what she's thinking). But time and again, the way these two are drawn is just in such closeup way, I can't help but think that Kishi wants us to understand that they are close, and growing closer. We now have lots of mental images of the two of them together. I can hardly remember any images of closeness between Naruto and Hinata, and Sasuke and Sakura.

Anyway, I've always read these with the body language as a clue to what might be going on underneath the surface, and I just can't find any other examples of really close contact outside of NaruSaku. If anyone has any other thoughts or can think of other examples, I'd love to know.

Also, along these same lines, the last few chapters have portrayed Sasuke and Karin in the same frames quite a bit. I'm not saying that anything will happen, but I can't ignore that if these are the psuedo-standards I'm applying to NaruSaku, then it's interesting to note that are more and more tightly drawn panels with Sasuke and Karin.

[ciardha]

I don't think there are other characters in this manga who are portrayed with such physical closeness as Naruto and Sakura.
Anyway, I've always read these with the body language as a clue to what might be going on underneath the surface, and I just can't find any other examples of really close contact outside of NaruSaku. If anyone has any other thoughts or can think of other examples, I'd love to know.

The only other examples I can think of are Tsunade and Dan (and we know they were engaged when he he was killed) She kisses his forehead, cuddles with him alone in a field, they have their arms around each other visiting the cemetery... and even moreso Tsunade and Jiraiya and we know there was mutual love there. Oh and Minato and Kushina but they only get one visual flashback, but it's filled with tight shots of the two of them and physical contact as well.

Interesting contrast to Mikoto and Fugaku Uchiha, they tend to be physically separated in the flashbacks even though they are in their household with only their sons around. Yoshino and Shikaku also don't have physical contact, but there's more warmth there than what comes across with Mikoto and Fugaku. Yoshino directly engages with not just her son but with her husband too. Mikoto and Fugaku's marriage has the feel of an arranged marriage within the Uchiha clan. Mikoto engages with her sons but there's a deferential vibe to Fugaku. It doesn't feel like their relationship is that warm.

[firegirl]

i found an interesting qoute from a naruhina fan and this is what they think about when naruto compleatly ingored hinata.

Naruto (by all appearances) ignoring Hinata's confession is, of course, the more disturbing of the two scenes, as Sakura was not being sincere (completely botching her assignment) and Naruto (and everyone else) knew it.

Just the same, I don't believe Naruto is 'ignoring' Hinata--nor is she eagerly awaiting his response. Hinata did not expect to survive and quite likely does not expect Naruto to harbor the same feelings for her. Thus, she probably doesn't anticipate any type of response to her confession--in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if she's feeling a little uncomfortable about baring her soul like that and may actually avoid him.

As for Naruto, I doubt that he is purposely 'ignoring' Hinata. He has way too much on his plate of late, and in the story's reality, Hinata's confession has taken place only a week or two in the past. I have no doubt that her actions and words will be addressed as the story progresses (though with the way Kishi writes , I have no clue about the whens and wherefores).

it was at a thread called narusaku vs naruhina

aperently they were talking about what has naruto done that was worse stated sakura ""lied" or compleatly ingnored hinata at least most agree he did worst hinata just not this guy

[X105]

im still going to debate its still not full love yet

but i wonder when kish is going to have sakura figure it out?

Yeah I know. The whole Sakura loves Sasuke thing did not any attention in part 2 until 475, but in the manga Kishimoto seems to stress that if something is in the text and has not been stated as false in the manga, it is true. If something is a lie in the story it typically is directly stated in the text as a lie. So I would have to say Sai's statements about Sakura loving Sasuke is accurate until proven otherwise. All in due time my narusaku companions.

[RedDelicious]

but in the manga Kishimoto seems to stress that if something is in the text and has not been stated as false in the manga, it is true. If something is a lie in the story it typically is directly stated in the text as a lie. So I would have to say Sai's statements about Sakura loving Sasuke is accurate until proven otherwise.

I have to disagree with this one.

For example, during the Kage conference, one of the characters (I forget which one) talked about how Sasuke defeated Zabuza and Haku. We (the reader) know this to be false. But it is completely in character for anyone outside the village to assume "the genius Uchiha" was the one who won the fights.

What the manga has shown us is that the only certifiably true statements are when we see the characters thinking to themselves. We get a peek at what they are feeling, or how they viewed a situation. Anything that is said from one person to another might be influenced by emotion, bias, etc. Just because an Uchiha talks about an impregnable defense, doesn't mean it won't be broken later (just that it will be very difficult to do so).

In any case, I find it interesting how many people who latch onto Sai's statement that "Sakura loves Sasuke", manage to insist this somehow means she cannot love Naruto, despite everything else Sai said in that same conversation.

[Froot]

Naruto (by all appearances) ignoring Hinata's confession is, of course, the more disturbing of the two scenes, as Sakura was not being sincere (completely botching her assignment) and Naruto (and everyone else) knew it.

Disturbing? See, I find it funny that NH fans EXPECT Naruto to do things, when he's the main character and she's a minor side character.

First of all, Hinata's confession had no where near the importance of Sakura's, considering 1. Sakura is the lead female and 2. Hinata's confession in no way, shape, or form has no importance for the overall lpot. Is she part of Team 7? No. Therefore, her importance is greatly limited. As is the same with most characters outside Team 7, except

-Tsunade, the Hokage, Sakura's sensei
-Shikamaru, the guy who's been involved since the start and can be basically applied to any situation
-Madara, the main antagonist as of now

Does Hinata have a place there? No. She has a place in the Rookie 11, as one of the ones who may or may not have voted for Sasuke's death (but it doesn't even matter what she said because he was voted to his death anyways) That is her only importance. Just as important as maybe say Tenten or Shino.

Therefore I don't see why Naruto, the main character, has ANY SORT OF obligation to a side character. I suppose the fans just want to see resolution for Hinata. I can understand that. But to go as far as to assume her confession NEEDS to be dealt with and is more important that Sakura's?

Just the same, I don't believe Naruto is 'ignoring' Hinata--nor is she eagerly awaiting his response. Hinata did not expect to survive and quite likely does not expect Naruto to harbor the same feelings for her. Thus, she probably doesn't anticipate any type of response to her confession--in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if she's feeling a little uncomfortable about baring her soul like that and may actually avoid him.

Exactly. That was going to be another point of mine. Does she even expect anything? This one thing they understand, at least.

As for Naruto, I doubt that he is purposely 'ignoring' Hinata. He has way too much on his plate of late, and in the story's reality, Hinata's confession has taken place only a week or two in the past. I have no doubt that her actions and words will be addressed as the story progresses (though with the way Kishi writes , I have no clue about the whens and wherefores).

I don't know, he had lots of oppurtunities to speak to her before. like when he was just sitting around doing nothing with Sakura, or right after he got back, when she was standing right there. I disagree and don't think her actions and words will ever be acknowledged in the future -- she'd be lucky to have a flashback -- as they have no importance to the plot. The only importance she had was making Naruto go 6 tails, which could have been done by anyone of his friends. The time to acknowledge that (after he got released from the posession, like when he was worrying about her or after he got back from his fight) has passed. Now it will only serve to complicate the plot and lead it into some kind of dead-end that has no relevence to anything in the present.

Maybe, and only maybe, will it ever be adressed after the conflict's resolution, when all the important things are said and done, when Kishi can afford to water things down to a shoujo. But even then, there's the matter of Naruto and Sakura.

Edited by Froot, 27 December 2009 - 03:30 PM.

[firegirl]

Disturbing? See, I find it funny that NH fans EXPECT Naruto to do things, when he's the main character and she's a minor side character.

First of all, Hinata's confession had no where near the importance of Sakura's, considering 1. Sakura is the lead female and 2. Hinata's confession in no way, shape, or form has no importance for the overall lpot. Is she part of Team 7? No. Therefore, her importance is greatly limited. As is the same with most characters outside Team 7, except

-Tsunade, the Hokage, Sakura's sensei
-Shikamaru, the guy who's been involved since the start and can be basically applied to any situation
-Madara, the main antagonist as of now

Does Hinata have a place there? No. She has a place in the Rookie 11, as one of the ones who may or may not have voted for Sasuke's death (but it doesn't even matter what she said because he was voted to his death anyways) That is her only importance. Just as important as maybe say Tenten or Shino.

Therefore I don't see why Naruto, the main character, has ANY SORT OF obligation to a side character. I suppose the fans just want to see resolution for Hinata. I can understand that. But to go as far as to assume her confession NEEDS to be dealt with and is more important that Sakura's?




Exactly. That was going to be another point of mine. Does she even expect anything? This one thing they understand, at least.



I don't know, he had lots of oppurtunities to speak to her before. like when he was just sitting around doing nothing with Sakura, or right after he got back, when she was standing right there. I disagree and don't think her actions and words will ever be acknowledged in the future -- she'd be lucky to have a flashback -- as they have no importance to the plot. The only importance she had was making Naruto go 6 tails, which could have been done by anyone of his friends. The time to acknowledge that (after he got released from the posession, like when he was worrying about her or after he got back from his fight) has passed. Now it will only serve to complicate the plot and lead it into some kind of dead-end that has no relevence to anything in the present.

Maybe, and only maybe, will it ever be adressed after the conflict's resolution, when all the important things are said and done, when Kishi can afford to water things down to a shoujo. But even then, there's the matter of Naruto and Sakura.

what you just wrote was excatly what i was thinking while reading it, i find it really amizing people think hinata is so important to the story, while even kish says in his interviwe sakura is the HEROINE.

seriously i dont get these people, why why do they think hinata is more important then sakura, even ino is more imortant the n hinata, she seems not important in her team compaire to kiba.

i just dont get it.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

For now, I assume that the other fandoms are greatly please with the "fanslators".

Then its so obvious. When you go to other forums, You can see SS fans signatures, naming "Because she loves him".. makes me..
either way, they are not happy when Sai told Sakura "Even I can tell, He really LOVES YOU

Edited by pinkheartsyellowstars, 27 December 2009 - 04:09 PM.