3406 replies to this topic

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

He didnt asked anything, the panel you bought already showed him being possessed without even looking at her.

http://www.mangapand...chapter-55.html

Or as I like to call that, the very first thing I linked to. Sasuke asks who hurt Sakura and goes to hurt exactly those who did it. He is doing it to test the power, sure, he is giving in to it. But he does use this power for Sakura's benefit. She doesn't want him to use that power even for her sake and asks him to stop, which Sasuke actually does because she asks it. Sasuke has done a lot of bad things to Sakura, but occasionally he did try to help her, too.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

http://www.mangapand...chapter-55.html

Or as I like to call that, the very first thing I linked to. Sasuke asks who hurt Sakura and goes to hurt exactly those who did it. He is doing it to test the power, sure, he is giving in to it. But he does use this power for Sakura's benefit. She doesn't want him to use that power even for her sake and asks him to stop, which Sasuke actually does because she asks it. Sasuke has done a lot of bad things to Sakura, but occasionally he did try to help her, too.

You said that he become like this because he see her hurt with it's not the case you change the subject.
Paralleling to Obi/Rin with it's not even the a valid parallel, he went back for her, Sasuke didnt awakened this form because of Sakura.
Like i said it's shows him becoming in this form without even knowing what was happening.

Which is different from Naruto's case.
http://i17.mangapand...naruto-2650.jpg
http://i2.mangapanda...uto-1566514.jpg

inb4 "Naruto is selfish"

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 06:33 PM.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

And the only real parallel I can see between NH on ObiRin is this: http://www.mangapand...hapter-437.html. This is even better parallel than SS in the forest of death since Naruto goes from normal to "fox" just by seeing Hinata get hurt.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I should reread the manga soon. I'm pretty sure I got the idea right. At least you guys made me remember that Naruto does dream of Sakura in whatever situation (being fed, protecting like a silver knight, etc.). Much like Obito. I don't know what's going here but agree to disagree. Even so, Naruto and Obito still parallel the most because of the situation. Even the general fans said that it's pure NS parallel and that's from NF. That said I believe we are way overdoing the parallel to the point we now put Hinata in the mix. What. The. Hell. What's next? Tsunade resembles to Hinata for "front" size, which leads to Naruto to go for Hinata. Even the filler got it right. Repeat. A filler got it right.

Sorry if I sound rude. I'm actually saying it in a normal tone. Sorry.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And the only real parallel I can see between NH on ObiRin is this: http://www.mangapand...hapter-437.html. This is even better parallel than SS in the forest of death since Naruto goes from normal to "fox" just by seeing Hinata get hurt.

He "killed" one of his friends in front of him.
What do you expect he would do.
"hey pain thanks for killing one of my friends".

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

@Tricksie

I see what you are trying say Tricksie and you do have a point...somewhat. Many of you already gave some good points, but I always saw ObiRin as a failed-NaruSaku-outcome parallel. At least in the part 1 aspect. Obito has changed his whole tone to dark, but if he wasn't influenced by Rin's death and the corruption of Madara, how would have Obito turned out? I suspect the same way Naruto is now. I think it is also fair to say that we can make a parallel from anything to anything if you look hard enough. So I would be careful with this one myself and go with my gut instinct. Sometimes if you think too much you lose the original thought. First impression wise it seems more NS parallel.

Here is still something interesting while we are on this topic. Naruto, compared to the rest of those he parallels, is still the only one with a certain factor and that is he has a shy girl who has the hots for him. Looking at all the parallels it is either unconfirmed or they don't have one. I sort of pointed this out in my big long post, but I want to elaborate even more here while we are on the subject. These could even have given NaruHina more fire power if it existed and made the parallels even more parallel. Of course, we probably would reply with that the guy ended up with tsundere any way.

Let's look at the other parallels:

Obito and Rin: Obito the goof ball and Rin the tsunade with the crush on the popular guy. Did Obito have a shy girl who had a crush on him too? It was not certain. The flashbacks don't mention anything about it and from first glance we could say that no, Obito did not have another girl who was after his heart. Imagine if there was though. How interesting would that be if that girl played a part now and reminded him of what Rin really stood for. Of course this relationship failed because Obito "died" and then Rin was killed. Another parallel here would be if Sasuke succeeded in killing Sakura and Naruto lost it.

Yahiko and Konan: Here is a big one that seems to be of it's own category. Would you say Yahiko was kind of a goof ball? I am not sure. Konan didn't exhibit much of a tsundere either. This is probably one parallel that is not NS, NH, or SS parallel. I have seen some people try to do it, but thinking about it it doesn't have the same structure as the rest. I am sure someone can find something, but I don't see this couple being a parallel to any of them. Konan wasn't shy nor did she have the trait of a tsundere. She was just kind of quiet. I have no clue where this stands, so I won't count it. Unless someone wants to give me good reason to include it.

Jiraiya and Tsunade: Jiraiya was the goof ball and Tsunade the tsundere (what a pun XD) who...while didn't have a crush of Orochimaru (ew)...didn't seem to have any attraction for Jiraiya. Although given the chapters leading to his death, they seem to speak otherwise. We never knew again whether or not Jiraiya had any girl (Shy or not) who had a crush on him either. Jiraiya seemed most similar to Naruto in that he wanted to bring his friend back and failed. Was Jiraiya panning for Tsunade's heart? Sadly, we need more info on it.

Minato and Kushina: This is what I call the NaruSaku that succeeded, but again there is the difference that I did point before. Kushina didn't have a crush on someone else and there wasn't any girl going after Minato, as far as we can tell. There is not enough info to apply here. Minato doesn't seem to have a mission where he is searching for his lost best friend who went to the dark side and Kushina doesn't seem to be the one trying to relieve Minato of said burden.

Are there any other parallels? I can't think of any more, but might have missed one.

It seems that NaruSaku is a combination of all three combined with the extra elements that none of the previous had. If I were to make a strong honest answer: Obito and Rin are similar to neither current pairing mold. It's closer to NaruSaku, though, so I will say that this is the one it mostly parallels.

JiraiTsun and MinKush are by far closer to the NaruSaku parallel. I do have to be curious and wonder if there were other girls after the goof balls heart and if there was this would be even closer to a NS parallel. We all know why

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 January 2013 - 06:44 PM.

[tricksie]

I get what you're saying tricksie, but I always thought Obito just completely lost it when Rin died. That he was too young and immature, he did not have the mental stability to deal with Rin's death. Maybe ObiRin would parallell NS more if the tragedy didn't happen. Now, I wonder what would've happen to Naruto if the same happened to him and Sakura when they were 12.

And who's to say Rin will be his girlfriend in the genjutsu world? Maybe he'll let her choose, but give her the life he thinks she wants, that is to grow up. I still think it's selfish to bring her back like that- I remember very well a scene in part 1 where Jiraiya told Tsunade you should dishonour people's deaths by bringing them back because you miss them. He was talking about Dan and Nawaki, after Orochimaru offered to bring them back if she healed his arms. Unfortunately, I don't remember the chapter.

I've always thought of Obito's actions as giving in to revenge. Like Sasuke in many ways. That's why I think the roles reversed at that young age: Obito and Kakashi had been Naruto and Sasuke in their early Team 7 days, but those roles were reversed respectively after Rin's death. Obito lived for revenge, like Sasuke, and Kakashi lived in a way that honored his friend, thus becoming like Naruto.

And if he creates the world, then gives Rin the choice, it's still not much of a choice. He's still the benevolent dictator. And her choice comes at the cost of the rest of their world that doesn't get a choice. So it's still all about his control.

That's such an interesting point about Jiraiya talking about Orochimaru. He is very much like Obito in that his reasons are born out of extreme pain and ultimately wanting power for themselves and control over death.

@dark - yeah I think we have to agree to disagree. no worries.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

He "killed" one of his friends in front of him.
What do you expect he would do.
"hey pain thanks for killing one of my friends".

And Obito reacted with uncontrollable rage when he saw Rin get killed. All Sasuke, Naruto and Obito have reacted with rage when they have seen someone they cared about get hurt/killed. Parallel.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Minato and Kushina: This is what I call the NaruSaku that succeeded, but again there is the difference that I did point before. Kushina didn't have a crush on someone else and there wasn't any girl going after Minato, as far as we can tell. There is not enough info to apply here. Minato doesn't seem to have a mission where he is searching for his lost best friend who went to the dark side and Kushina doesn't seem to be the one trying to relieve Minato of said burden.

Are there any other parallels? I can't think of any more, but might have missed one.

It seems that NaruSaku is a combination of all three combined with the extra elements that none of the previous had. If I were to make a strong honest answer: Obito and Rin are similar to neither current pairing mold. It's closer to NaruSaku, though, so I will say that this is the one it mostly parallels.

JiraiTsun and MinKush are by far closer to the NaruSaku parallel. I do have to be curious and wonder if there were other girls after the goof balls heart and if there was this would be even closer to a NS parallel. We all know why

I agree with you James but i have to pinpoint this, i think it needs a correcton, because of contradiction you said that kushina didnt have a crush on someome else and had any girl that was going after Minato, how can we call it "Narusaku that suceeded" i think more like their personalities fit Naruto and Sakura which makes the parallel but their set-up is not the same, it's just to pinpoint that Naruto's parents resembles Naruto and Sakura.
Kushina had the same problems as Sakura it didnt show up that being a jinchuuriki was a great burden to her but seemed that her insecurities about herself was her biggest problem, she didnt like some of her appearances like her hair and Sakura is the forehead.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

And Obito reacted with uncontrollable rage when he saw Rin get killed. All Sasuke, Naruto and Obito have reacted with rage when they have seen someone they cared about get hurt/killed. Parallel.

Naruto reacted with rage when they told him that Jiraiya died, Naruto reacted with rage when he saw Sakura struggling, he reacted with rage when he found that Gaara was dead, he was going to turn two tails, and kill everyone.
Just to add he reacted with rage towards Pain and he wanted only to kill saying shut up all the times and didnt wanted to hear what he was trying to say to him.
Naruto went four tails when Orochimaru was talking about Sasuke.
Naruto is a guy that raged a lot of times.

Never saw Sasuke reacting with rage because of Sakura.
Even on the panel you bought up proves this.
Just one and it was about Naruto, when itachi was after him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[kirabook]

I still feel that ObiRin is a parallel for NS/Team 7, but just like other parallels for NS/Team 7, they start off the same for the most part, but always end up very different sorta.

For example, Jiraiya, Tsunade, and Orochimaru. This is a super obvious parallel made by Kishi and it's been brought up over and over again in the past in manga and especially on chapter covers. What makes it different from NS/Team 7 is that Tsunade never had a crush on Orochimaru like Sakura had on Sasuke. We never really see Tsunade caring much about Orochimaru leaving like Sakura cared about Sasuke either. Into adulthood, the only parallel that remains are Jiraiya loving Tsunade and the techniques that were passed down to them. (He gave up on returning Orochimaru, unlike Naruto)

Another parallel that is there, but still different is the MK NS parallel. The biggest and I feel, the more focused on parallel between the two is Kushina detesting Minato when they were younger, just as Sakura detested Naruto, but slowly growing into something else and eventually love. Sakura is not quite there yet (or at least, not absolutely), but the progression that we saw was there. There are other things that parallel the two (mostly smaller things like Naruto saving Sakura from Sasuke like Minato saved Kushina and the 'Find someone like your mother') but I feel that's the most important. What makes it different is of course, Naruto resembles his mother more than his father in terms of personality and composure. We also weren't shown if Kushina had another love like Sakura did.

As for the old Team 7 parallel, again, it starts off just like the current team 7, even more than the others in the past. The parallel as a whole slowly diminished after the Obito tragedy, and was pretty much destroyed when Kakashi killed Rin (though we still don't know the reason for that). Obito's current obsession with Rin is not meant to resemble Naruto's current love for Sakura. Obito is like that due to witnessing her die in such a terrible way. The whole time he trained alone stuck in some hole, thinking about returning to Rin and Kakashi. Rin and Kakashi was his entire motivation to escape that place and go home. It could have been anything or anyone that was destroyed/killed, he would have gone mad because that was the only hope he had.

As Obito said, he and Naruto are the same. If we switched out Obito and put Naruto into the situation, it is implied that he too would go insane. This is even more true now that we've seen Naruto's resolve isn't as strong as previously assumed (thanks chapter 615 :/) Obito's love did not start out obsessive, but the events in his life certainly made it so. Now a days, Obito love is completely and utterly one sided since you know, Rin is dead and all. But back then, if he hadn't been crushed by rocks or watched her die before him, I believe his love would be more like Naruto's is currently.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

As Obito said, he and Naruto are the same. If we switched out Obito and put Naruto into the situation, it is implied that he too would go insane. This is even more true now that we've seen Naruto's resolve isn't as strong as previously assumed (thanks chapter 615 :/) Obito's love did not start out obsessive, but the events in his life certainly made it so. Now a days, Obito love is completely and utterly one sided since you know, Rin is dead and all. But back then, if he hadn't been crushed by rocks or watched her die before him, I believe his love would be more like Naruto's is currently.

Ah, but is this true? Because I have argued that Neji played the role of Rin for Naruto. Naruto came out of Neji's death with renewed confidence. This is the whole point of ch 615. I know that some of you don't think Neji can be "Rin" because Naruto is not in love with Neji. But there is no denying that Naruto saw someone important die in front of him and almost did what Obito did and gave up. What stopped him was Hinata and her reminder that Naruto is not alone. I think Obito is what Naruto could have become if he did not have any friends or support. Naruto says the same thing to Sasuke; that Naruto might have wanted to destroy Konoha if he did not have important bonds to help him.

Never saw Sasuke reacting with rage because of Sakura.

You are right. What was I thinking? Sasuke was only breaking the arms of Sakura's tormenter to have some light little muscle exercise. It is so important to stay fit when on ninja missions.

The last interaction was when Sasuke shove her aside to stop caring for him and made her cry, which I'm glad Naruto got upset. Unnecessary and uncalled for. But that's just me.

I love how Naruto is instantly distracted from his anger about Sakura's treatment when Sasuke goes to tell him about wanting to fight him.

Edited by Poison_In_Your_Coffee, 06 January 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Ah, but is this true? Because I have argued that Neji played the role of Rin for Naruto. Naruto came out of Neji's death with renewed confidence. This is the whole point of ch 615. I know that some of you don't think Neji can be "Rin" because Naruto is not in love with Neji. But there is no denying that Naruto saw someone important die in front of him and almost did what Obito did and gave up. What stopped him was Hinata and her reminder that Naruto is not alone. I think Obito is what Naruto could have become if he did not have any friends or support. Naruto says the same thing to Sasuke; that Naruto might have wanted to destroy Konoha if he did not have important bonds to help him.

But this is the problem of all of it, Naruto lose his friend and the pain of losing him is not the same as losing the person he loves, look at Hinata how she would react if Naruto died?
Look at Sakura how much she's concerned with a possible Naruto's death on Sasuke's confrontation.
Rin was the closest person to Obito along with Kakashi, it's shown on the flashbacks.
Just look at Naruto, the closest persons to him are Sakura, Sasuke those bonds are the most important to him.
If kishi do this it's an asspull on the same way because it's impossible for naruto to understand obito based on just this.

Obito proved that Naruto could not keep his promise of " not letting him kill any of his friends" this was the first attack of obito on Naruto.

About the bolded one he said this based on the bonds of people like Iruka and the team 7, those people saved him.

You are right. What was I thinking? Sasuke was only breaking the arms of Sakura's tormenter to have some light little muscle exercise. It is so important to stay fit when on ninja missions.

Debate was good until you come with sarcam, he did that because of the dark influence of the cursed seal, he didnt do that because of Sakura he didnt become that form because of her you're making an assumption and trying to push it on us, the only panel that showed him caring for Sakura was on gaara's fight when he told Naruto to protect her, because he didnt wanted to lose more people on his life like Naruto and Sakura, then Naruto remembers Haku's words "there is someome important that you want to protect" he thinks about sakura and went SSJ2, way different than Sasuke.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

I agree with you James but i have to pinpoint this, i think it needs a correcton, because of contradiction you said that kushina didnt have a crush on someome else and had any girl that was going after Minato, how can we call it "Narusaku that suceeded" i think more like their personalities fit Naruto and Sakura which makes the parallel but their set-up is not the same, it's just to pinpoint that Naruto's parents resembles Naruto and Sakura.
Kushina had the same problems as Sakura it didnt show up that being a jinchuuriki was a great burden to her but seemed that her insecurities about herself was her biggest problem, she didnt like some of her appearances like her hair and Sakura is the forehead.

I actually didn't contradict myself because I did explain in my previous post about how Minato and Kushina would be NaruSaku without the extra factors put in. Given that we know that Sasuke wasn't originally going to be in the manga and was an idea by the editor, I am going to assume that Minato and Kushina would be the original concept given to the NaruSaku.

If we take away Sasuke and everything involving him, then Sakura would have no one else to crush on and probably would have noticed Naruto much sooner than she did in the story. We also know that Naruto would not have wasted his time with going after Sasuke and the POAL would either be something different or non-existent. In fact, 90% of the problems NS faced were because of Sasuke. Ive already covered the whole host thing and you can just re-read the other posts. This also makes point that since Sasuke is the one factor that changes so much it is the final hurdle for them to get over before being canon.

You did bring up something though that I remembered. For the longest of time Naruto was said to be like his mother. If I were to venture, I would say that this is something that has been retconned by now. Naruto doesn't appear to have a similar personality and merely just shares some traits. Especially since the chapter where Kushina said to find a girl like his mother. Naruto really just shares that outspoken personality with the determination. Although, recently, these seem to have been changed too.

One last thing to add. If Sasuke didn't exist, ObiRin would have less in common with NS as well. Like I said, it is a hybrid of all three major parallels we have.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 January 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I actually didn't contradict myself because I did explain in my previous post about how Minato and Kushina would be NaruSaku without the extra factors put in. Given that we know that Sasuke wasn't originally going to be in the manga and was an idea by the editor, I am going to assume that Minato and Kushina would be the original concept given to the NaruSaku.

If we take away Sasuke and everything involving him, then Sakura would have no one else to crush on and probably would have noticed Naruto much sooner than she did in the story. We also know that Naruto would not have wasted his time with going after Sasuke and the POAL would either be something different or non-existent.

You did bring up something though that I remembered. For the longest of time Naruto was said to be like his mother. If I were to venture, I would say that this is something that has been retconned by now. Naruto doesn't appear to have a similar personality and merely just shares traits. Especially since the chapter where Kushina said to find a girl like his mother. Naruto really just shares that outspoken personality with the determination. Although, recently, these seems to have been changed too.

YEs but the problem is that Kushina didnt fall in love with Minato because she acknowledge him as an amazing shinobi but because of his compliment about her hair, changing Kushina.
What is in common is their starting views about both Minato/Naruto his father changed the way Kushina looked at herself and made her acknowledge him, in other hand Sakura only acknowledges Naruto but still Naruto didnt changed her.( not that it's her way that she looks at herself)

if you love someome you can may fall in love with another person, does not matter if you love someome before, because you actually fall in love again.
There are a lot of scenes on the manga that NS could have happened much sooner, like if Naruto complimented Sakura on the begining of part 2 saying that she become a beautifull woman instead of saying that she was the same.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[KnS]

But isn't the NH handholding + Hinata's unstated desire to hold Naruto's hand very similar to your theory of NS forehead kiss + Sakura's unstated desire to have someone kiss her forehead? Both girls state that desire only to themselves. Naruto, without knowing that, has made them come true for both of them.

In the strictest technical sense this could be thought of as true; the hidden desire of both girls was, from a selective point of view, met by Naruto. (Or would have been; the fact that the forehead kiss scene was left incomplete is why so many think we'll return to it at some later point.)

Except with Sakura, he never gets so far as to kiss her, just states that he would like to do so. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this is one reason the handholding is so powerful moment for us who want NH to be canon. Because, in a way, it was our "forehead kiss" moment. It was the moment that showed that Naruto understands Hinata without words and that by fulfilling her unspoken wish makes NH very close to canon the same way Naruto would have made NS very close to canon by going to Sakura and kissing her forehead.

I can see how a SS/NH fan might read it that way and want to believe it. I really do. But to my eyes there's a huge problem with that interpretation because one moment is the result of Naruto's conscious desire based on his own feelings -- to kiss Sakura's forehead -- while the other is at best a kind and accidental response to Hinata's feelings.

If Naruto had ever once given us an indication that he was interested in Hinata romantically, and we had been shown that he had a conscious desire to hold her hand, then it would be similar. But that's not the case. Hinata wanting to hold Naruto's hand is not equal to Naruto wanting to kiss Sakura's forehead because one was Naruto's personal desire and the other was not.

And it's a difficult battle proving that Naruto was thinking of Hinata's romantic desires at that moment in #615, or that he was encouraging her interest in him in any way. I don't believe for a second that he was consciously paying her a romantic compliment (like his desire to kiss Sakura's forehead was), or that he was expressing a desire for her or for her to feel desirable (like his desire to kiss Sakura's forehead was.) The circumstances are completely different, and in my opinion, at least, Kishimoto's intention with the scenes really can't be compared due to context.

As I have said before, the problem I see with SS and NH is that they exclude Naruto's feelings. SS exludes Naruto entirely, and until it's proven that Naruto no longer loves Sakura, that NS has no chance of happening, Naruto is shown to move on, and moves on to Hinata specifically, then NH also excludes Naruto's feelings.

In the absence of Naruto's explicit romantic interest in Hinata, in my opinion the interpretation you suggest above -- "the moment that showed that Naruto understands Hinata without words and that by fulfilling her unspoken wish makes NH very close to canon" -- is from a strictly Hinata-centric perspective, and ignores Naruto's currently established feelings in the equation.

Just my opinion.

[tricksie]

Ah, but is this true? Because I have argued that Neji played the role of Rin for Naruto. Naruto came out of Neji's death with renewed confidence. This is the whole point of ch 615. I know that some of you don't think Neji can be "Rin" because Naruto is not in love with Neji. But there is no denying that Naruto saw someone important die in front of him and almost did what Obito did and gave up. What stopped him was Hinata and her reminder that Naruto is not alone. I think Obito is what Naruto could have become if he did not have any friends or support. Naruto says the same thing to Sasuke; that Naruto might have wanted to destroy Konoha if he did not have important bonds to help him.

Sorry I'm jumping around and not responding in order

I really think this is an interesting idea! That Neji could be the "Rin" in the equation here. Naruto had to watch someone die, violently, stabbed through the chest, right in front of him. And he was powerless to stop it. You're right, what could be a better parallel to Rin than that?

And yes, Obito is definitely what Naruto could/would become if he didn't have people around him. The situation is straightforward with Sasuke, but here it takes Hinata/Neji/Kurama reminding him and helping him overcome Neji's death.

@James - think we'll have to agree to disagree too. Because I really don't see Naruto as Obito to start with. Like I said, when he was younger yes. But the roles flipped at Rin's death. Obito became Sasuke and Kakashi became Naruto. So to get to Obi-Rin and NS, I think it's essential to see their roles as paralleled, and I just don't. Well, at least not neatly/cleanly so.

The argument is often made that Naruto could go off the deep end and full on into revenge if he ever saw Sasuke kill Sakura the way Obito saw Rin die. But I have to disagree here to, simply because Naruto was a different person than Obito. And he perseveres where Obito/Sasuke/and everyone fails. Want proof? Sasuke stuck his hand through Naruto's chest, and he still didn't seek revenge. The exact wound that was inflicted on Rin was inflicted on himself, by one of the two people he cared most for. Yet he still didn't turn bad. Instead he kept his faith. I tend to think he wouldn't follow Obito's path (now or at 12yo) and turn to revenge or destroy the world Sakura loved so he could have her back again. I tend to think he would persevere. And that is what makes him the hero where others fail.

edit: although the idea of a ObiRin as a failed NS I could definitely see.

[Poison_In_Your_Coffee]

I always saw ObiRin as a failed-NaruSaku-outcome parallel.

Minato and Kushina: This is what I call the NaruSaku that succeeded

I quite like this. This is something I have been thinking about myself. NS has a lot of parallels with different pairings, and those pairings have different endings. MinaKushi get together and are in love. JiraTsu never happened because Tsunade loved another man. ObiRin likewise. So what path will NS follow? Will they make it like MinaKushi or end up more like JiraTsu? Which parallel they end up mirroring the most? Interesting questions.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Sorry I'm jumping around and not responding in order

I really think this is an interesting idea! That Neji could be the "Rin" in the equation here. Naruto had to watch someone die, violently, stabbed through the chest, right in front of him. And he was powerless to stop it. You're right, what could be a better parallel to Rin than that?

And yes, Obito is definitely what Naruto could/would become if he didn't have people around him. The situation is straightforward with Sasuke, but here it takes Hinata/Neji/Kurama reminding him and helping him overcome Neji's death.

@James - think we'll have to agree to disagree too. Because I really don't see Naruto as Obito. Like I said, when he was younger yes. But the roles flipped at Rin's death. Obito became Sasuke and Kakashi became Naruto.

The argument is often made that Naruto could go off the deep end and full on into revenge if he ever saw Sasuke kill Sakura the way Obito saw Rin die. But I have to disagree here to, simply because Naruto was a different person than Obito. And he perseveres where Obito/Sasuke/and everyone fails. Want proof? Sasuke stuck his hand through Naruto's chest, and he still didn't seek revenge. The exact wound that was inflicted on Rin was inflicted on himself, by one of the two people he cared most for. Yet he still didn't turn bad. Instead he kept his faith. I tend to think he wouldn't follow Obito's path (now or at 12yo) and turn to revenge or destroy the world Sakura loved so he could have her back again. I tend to think he would persevere. And that is what makes him the hero where others fail.

But here's the problem how Obito become Sasuke if he had any revenge desires?
He would become Sasuke if he said "i'll kill you Kakashi but he didnt wanted to kill him based on this premise".
HE just looked at the things he's mind is completely formed he wants to see Naruto, he wants to prove something to Naruto, he lost his hope it's different than Sasuke, that does not have a legit reason, his reasons to hate konoha are forced he just hate because he have to hate like running from reality.
While Obito is not, he acknowledge that he's struck on a loop, he's waiting for an answer from Naruto if Naruto went on a despair like him, Naruto will prove that Obito is right, if NAruto endures and proves that he's wrong he's likely going to sacrifice himself and ressurrect everyone.
Just like Nagato.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 06 January 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

YEs but the problem is that Kushina didnt fall in love with Minato because she acknowledge him as an amazing shinobi but because of his compliment about her hair, changing Kushina.
What is in common is their starting views about both Minato/Naruto his father changed the way Kushina looked at herself and made her acknowledge him, in other hand Sakura only acknowledges Naruto but still Naruto didnt changed her.( not that it's her way that she looks at herself)

if you love someome you can may fall in love with another person, does not matter if you love someome before, because you actually fall in love again.
There are a lot of scenes on the manga that NS could have happened much sooner, like if Naruto complimented Sakura on the begining of part 2 saying that she become a beautifull woman instead of saying that she was the same.

Again, I have covered all this. Without the crush, Sakura would have noticed Naruto much sooner, but because she was fangirling Sasuke she neglected the good things Naruto has done. Everything that has happened to stall NS from being canon was all because of Sasuke. The bench scene was because Naruto dressed up as Sasuke. The lack of intimacy of getting close because of Sasuke. The POAL was to bring Sasuke back. It's all connected.

Going back to Minato and Kushina it is everything that would have happened without the Sasuke factor in there. That's the whole point. Just imagine taking Sasuke out of Team 7 and thinking how much that would have changed.

If you want I'll create a whole summary, but I think you can piece it together from here. Just imagine plugging in the factor of Sasuke and all he has done and ad it to Minato and Kushina's story.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 06 January 2013 - 08:06 PM.