4869 replies to this topic

[Ani]

Troublesome, isn't it?

[Random Nobody]

Very Troublesome *suddenly feels like Shikamaru* Maybe I should go watch some clouds

[Ani]

I was just watching episode 64 again. I cant help it! XD

I want more arguments. people are so funny.

[Nick Soapdish]

Ah I thought that was already posted here, but I wasn't sure. I'll never understand how the SasuSaku fans think the Goodbye scene was a SasuSaku scene, she confessed her feeling to him and he abandoned her, Naruto, and the village.

And I still can't get the quotes to work in my previous post It's getting kinda frustrating.

The board settings only allow 10 quotes per post. Try merging a couple of them.

And folks, you don't need to go mining into the FCs to find posts to debate about. Those aren't necessarily expressed as arguments anyway.

[Random Nobody]

I never really watched the anime that much, what happens in episode 64? It would be fun if the NaruHina and SasuSaku people came up with more arguments, but I guess they've both realised it's hard to argue for a pairing when all your evidence is more than a 100 chapters old

EDIT: Thanks Nick, I'll get right on that.

[Vivi]

I have another!

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

hmmm...that's actually a tough one for my 13-year-old mind to handle...lemme see...

It's true that Naruto proved himself selfless with the promise of a lifetime, but the thing is, that's a promise to Bring Sasuke back. Sasuke is Naruto's teammate, too, so in a way, it's a promise that benefits himself, too. And Naruto's realized at the hospital, that Sakura truly loves Sasuke. I think that it was then that he decided to start "letting go" of Sakura. And...Sasuke is Kishimoto's favorite character, you have to remember. (that's my stupidness talking)

Anyways...

Naruto's main goal is to become Hokage. He never stated anything about his goal being to become Sakura's husband or anything like that. His goal is to become the Hokage. And Sasuke's goals are to restore his clan AND to have his revenge. Sakura's goal was to win Sasuke's heart at the beginning (part one) of the series, and now, her current goal is to bring Sasuke back. It's all basically like pieces of a puzzle to me. Put it all together! Buahaha...

More than likely, everyone's gonna have their goal accomplished, or in Sasuke's case, GOALS. And when that person said that Naruto was always there for Sakura...is he/she/it implying that Sasuke wasnt always there for Sakura??? I mean, if you ask me, Sasuke was there for Sakura just as many times, if not, more.

1) He saw that Sakura was upset, figured out why, and cheered her up, whereas Naruto had no idea as into what was going on.

2) during the fight with Gaara, wasnt he the one that was originally protecting her? Naruto didnt show up till later.

...I have more, but I need to think to remember...

And Hinata had feelings for Naruto from the very beginning. She's acknowledged him as an individual before any of the other kids. In my humble opinion, she's better for Naruto than Sakura is. And although we see that Naruto has a crush on Sakura, we also watch as both he and Hinata grow closer together. How is she a mere "consolation prize"?

All in all, "What kind of message is that?" Well, I think the message, if you look at it from that person's POV is that Life isnt fair, which is very much true.

Okay...so that wasnt much of an arguement that I posted...sorry, my mind keeps on wandering today.

I actually got it from the SasuSaku forum: Simply Love. I like our name better. This is from one of their topics like this one. it's a response to the Hinata being a consolation prize thing.

[Random Nobody]

Our name is better :thumbs: and now to take care of this argument.

It's true that Naruto proved himself selfless with the promise of a lifetime, but the thing is, that's a promise to Bring Sasuke back. Sasuke is Naruto's teammate, too, so in a way, it's a promise that benefits himself, too. And Naruto's realized at the hospital, that Sakura truly loves Sasuke. I think that it was then that he decided to start "letting go" of Sakura. And...Sasuke is Kishimoto's favorite character, you have to remember. (that's my stupidness talking)

So what if the promise benefits Naruto to? He would have made it wether it benefited him or not. Oh and if Naruto's "letting go" of Sakura, how come he's still so attracted to her and still asking her out on dates? Sasuke is Kishimoto's favorite character? I always thought he was his favorite character to draw. Even if Sasuke is his favorite character, that doesn't mean he instantly gets a happy ending.

Naruto's main goal is to become Hokage. He never stated anything about his goal being to become Sakura's husband or anything like that. His goal is to become the Hokage. And Sasuke's goals are to restore his clan AND to have his revenge. Sakura's goal was to win Sasuke's heart at the beginning (part one) of the series, and now, her current goal is to bring Sasuke back. It's all basically like pieces of a puzzle to me. Put it all together! Buahaha...

And now Naruto is focusing on rescuing Sasuke cause he doesn't feel like he'd be worthy of being Hokage if he can't save his friend, Sasuke has given up his dream to revive his clan and is focusing solely on killing Itachi, and Sakura is trying to make sure they both survive. Their dreams have changed so your points useless.

More than likely, everyone's gonna have their goal accomplished, or in Sasuke's case, GOALS. And when that person said that Naruto was always there for Sakura...is he/she/it implying that Sasuke wasnt always there for Sakura??? I mean, if you ask me, Sasuke was there for Sakura just as many times, if not, more.

1) He saw that Sakura was upset, figured out why, and cheered her up, whereas Naruto had no idea as into what was going on.

2) during the fight with Gaara, wasnt he the one that was originally protecting her? Naruto didnt show up till later.

...I have more, but I need to think to remember...

Uh..about that whole helping Sakura when she was upset thing, I assume your talking about during the beginning of the chuunin exams when she was all depressed. I'd like to point out that she was upset because of Sasuke in the first place so thats not really that great of a point.

Oh and what the hell are you talking about? Naruto and Sakura showed up at the same time well Sasuke was exhausted from using Chidori to much against Gaara. Sasuke never protected her until Naruto showed up. The only thing Sasuke did for her during the fight was catch her after Naruto beat Gaara, and there's no way Naruto could have done that because he was on the forest floor exhausted after giving everything he had and then some to beat Gaara to save her.

And Hinata had feelings for Naruto from the very beginning. She's acknowledged him as an individual before any of the other kids. In my humble opinion, she's better for Naruto than Sakura is. And although we see that Naruto has a crush on Sakura, we also watch as both he and Hinata grow closer together. How is she a mere "consolation prize"?

We watch them grow closer? I assume you mean that one scene before the Naruto vs Neji fight that gets completly overshadowed by the number of times we've seen Naruto and Sakura grow closer. Oh and she's a "consolation prize" because your basiclly saying "Well Naruto can't get Sakura so let's give him Hinata!" sounds like a consolation prize to me.

Nice find Hinata-chan, it's fun countering all of these arguments, althogh I still wish they'd put a little more thought into them and not make stuff up, like Sasuke defending Sakura from Gaara before Naruto got there.

[Vivi]

Arigatou! And this is a HUGE one..Who wants to tackle it?

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

Based on Theme:
Frankly, its impossible for Sakura or anyone to have an intimate relationship with Naruto. This is because the Manga revolves around the “coming of age” theme and not the lovy dovy theme. This means that the characters will go though an experience of another’s perspective. In a “coming of age” the characters ALWAYS have something lacking, room for improvement, or some kind of gap in their character- these gaps make the characters specifically unique, young and naive of other people’s feelings. This is opposite of an adult: more flexible, understanding and caring- in a coming of age, there is something that will move them to fill this gap, and move them towards adulthood. Naruto is that something: his function is to make the characters grow.

A relationship causes people to change for one another- this is widely seen in shoujo- two people who have very different personalities, change themselves and become closer to an ideal couple. But the theme is not romance, Therefore, Naruto cannot change his character, or the characters won’t be able to grow from his experience. Look at how Naruto makes Sakura grow but does not make her change- she becomes more understanding and stronger- but Sakura is still Sakura, there has been no change in her character. Even if Sakura has intimate feelings for Naruto, even if she changes herself to become more compatible with Naruto, He cannot change himself for her, because if he does, the theme would break. Since Naruto is the main character, the story would change from a Shonen manga to Shoujo. In truth, every single side character can have a relationship and it would still be considered shonen, as long as Naruto does not, otherwise, the famous shounen manga “Naruto” would end. It would be called the famous “shoujo manga” Naruto.

In some anime/manga, there is love and there are relationships, but they are not accomplished until the end- because if they did, there would be nothing else to look forward to because everything has been achieved.



Based on Chracters:
Let me begin with Sakura. First off, Sakura started out with loving Sasuke (we all know that) Her romantic feelings are directed towards him, and her love for him is very passionate! But her love is also known as unrequited... because he is gone. That is a gap that keeps Sakura moving forward. Because her love is unrequited, she’s been moving towards different perspectives and views. That unrequited ness got her to become a better and stronger person for her team. It also points towards the direction of understanding Naruto more. The thing is, Sakura needs Sasuke to be her character. The option of loving Naruto is excluded because he is there with her. Loving Naruto will drop her motivation by a huge amount and Sakura wouldn’t be Sakura anymore. Therefore Sakura needs this unrequited ness to be herself. Now moving towards her feelings with Naruto. Sakura does NOT have romantic feelings for him as of now (Its all up to Kishimoto to arrange the development inthe future) The thing is, Sakura loves Naruto and Sasuke equally, just differently. People always talk about Sakura's love realization for Naruto. Well...? What is there to realize? Sakura already loves him, and she shows that through her respect. Just look at it through this way... if Sakura shifted her romantic feelings towards Naruto than it shows that she would be desperate for a RELATIONSHIP, not love. Fortunately, Sakura is striving for love. A very specific one in fact.

Now lets talk about Naruto. In the beginning, Naruto held this major crush on Sakura. I said before that Naruto has no character development, right? Now remember when Sasuke came back injured from Itachi? Naruto stopped trying to grab Sakura's attention since then, because he knew how Sakura truly felt. If Naruto loved her romantically, he would try harder to grab her attention. He would try to change for her but so far... he hasn't. Naruto doesn't want love from Sakura because he understands the relationship they hold. Sakura also doesn’t want Naruto because her romantic feelings are attatched to Sasuke. Naruto and Sakura don’t have romantic feelings for eachother Their feelings are much more described as understanding or sibling-like. So why would they want to get together? As stated before, Naruto and Sakura have friendly love. Its true a fact, that Sakura is CLOSER to Naruto than she is with Sasuke. But that doesn't mean that they have an intimate relationship. The main idea is... Naruto is not going to change.

As for Sasuke’s character, I don’t know him very well enough to write something on the Team 7 relationship. All I know is that Naruto and Sakura are important to him. Even if he doesn’t show it.

If the writer wants to change the manga into a shoujo, then its his decision and there is nothing we can do about it. But sticking to the hard facts, up to this point, there is proof that Sakura shows feelings of intimacy towards Sauske and feelings of close friendship towards Naruto. You cannot argue against a fact.

[Random Nobody]

Arigatou! And this is a HUGE one..Who wants to tackle it?

No problem! Wow your really good at finding these posts and this ones massive. Ah well *puts on football gear* let's see if I can tackle it

Frankly, its impossible for Sakura or anyone to have an intimate relationship with Naruto. This is because the Manga revolves around the “coming of age” theme and not the lovy dovy theme. This means that the characters will go though an experience of another’s perspective. In a “coming of age” the characters ALWAYS have something lacking, room for improvement, or some kind of gap in their character- these gaps make the characters specifically unique, young and naive of other people’s feelings. This is opposite of an adult: more flexible, understanding and caring- in a coming of age, there is something that will move them to fill this gap, and move them towards adulthood. Naruto is that something: his function is to make the characters grow.

Well this part is a little true. Naruto does inspire most of the characters to develop in the story, however that doesn't mean that Naruto and Sakura can't have an intimate relationship, or Kishi never would have bothered putting so much attention on how they feel about each other.

A relationship causes people to change for one another- this is widely seen in shoujo- two people who have very different personalities, change themselves and become closer to an ideal couple. But the theme is not romance, Therefore, Naruto cannot change his character, or the characters won’t be able to grow from his experience. Look at how Naruto makes Sakura grow but does not make her change- she becomes more understanding and stronger- but Sakura is still Sakura, there has been no change in her character. Even if Sakura has intimate feelings for Naruto, even if she changes herself to become more compatible with Naruto, He cannot change himself for her, because if he does, the theme would break. Since Naruto is the main character, the story would change from a Shonen manga to Shoujo. In truth, every single side character can have a relationship and it would still be considered shonen, as long as Naruto does not, otherwise, the famous shounen manga “Naruto” would end. It would be called the famous “shoujo manga” Naruto.

Your basiclly saying Naruto can't get paired up with anyone because the second he does this will become a shoujo manga. Man that's just to funny, okay time for a reality check, Shonen mangas often have main character pairings to and all they usually require is that two characters fall for each other, like you said only shoujo focuses on changing people thus you made your own point invalid because this isn't a shoujo manga. Mans it's great when they counter their own arguments for you Makes it a lot easier on the rest of us.

Let me begin with Sakura. First off, Sakura started out with loving Sasuke (we all know that) Her romantic feelings are directed towards him, and her love for him is very passionate! But her love is also known as unrequited... because he is gone. That is a gap that keeps Sakura moving forward. Because her love is unrequited, she’s been moving towards different perspectives and views. That unrequited ness got her to become a better and stronger person for her team. It also points towards the direction of understanding Naruto more. The thing is, Sakura needs Sasuke to be her character. The option of loving Naruto is excluded because he is there with her. Loving Naruto will drop her motivation by a huge amount and Sakura wouldn’t be Sakura anymore. Therefore Sakura needs this unrequited ness to be herself. Now moving towards her feelings with Naruto. Sakura does NOT have romantic feelings for him as of now (Its all up to Kishimoto to arrange the development inthe future) The thing is, Sakura loves Naruto and Sasuke equally, just differently. People always talk about Sakura's love realization for Naruto. Well...? What is there to realize? Sakura already loves him, and she shows that through her respect. Just look at it through this way... if Sakura shifted her romantic feelings towards Naruto than it shows that she would be desperate for a RELATIONSHIP, not love. Fortunately, Sakura is striving for love. A very specific one in fact.

What do you mean "Sakura needs Sasuke to be her character"! Since when? Her devlopment and understanding of Naruto were not the result of Sasuke leaving or at least not solely for that reason. Her understanding of Naruto has been happening since they first started being a team, not since Sasuke left so his depature has nothing to do with her understanding Naruto. As for her development into a stronger character, it's because after Sasuke left Naruto encouraged her by refusing to give up on the promise of a lifetime. Sakura didn't get stronger because of Sasuke she got stronger because of Naruto, this has been implied throughout the show, like when they cheered each other on during the preliminaries and when Sakura felt like watching Naruto fight made her want to be stronger. So no Sakura's character doesn't revolve around Sasuke, her feeling for Sasuke were only there to make her more realistic so she seemed more like the average 12 year old girl.

Now lets talk about Naruto. In the beginning, Naruto held this major crush on Sakura. I said before that Naruto has no character development, right? Now remember when Sasuke came back injured from Itachi? Naruto stopped trying to grab Sakura's attention since then, because he knew how Sakura truly felt. If Naruto loved her romantically, he would try harder to grab her attention. He would try to change for her but so far... he hasn't. Naruto doesn't want love from Sakura because he understands the relationship they hold. Sakura also doesn’t want Naruto because her romantic feelings are attatched to Sasuke. Naruto and Sakura don’t have romantic feelings for eachother Their feelings are much more described as understanding or sibling-like. So why would they want to get together? As stated before, Naruto and Sakura have friendly love. Its true a fact, that Sakura is CLOSER to Naruto than she is with Sasuke. But that doesn't mean that they have an intimate relationship. The main idea is... Naruto is not going to change.

Naruto doesn't want love from Sakura? You have to love blatant assumptions that have no evidence in the story. So you think Naruto doesn't love Sakura because he's not trying to change himself for her? Since when did being in love with people meant you have to change yourself? I always thought when you loved someone you accepted them as they are, not tried to change them into what you want to be, and Naruto and Sakura accept each other as they are despite their faults. Oh and claiming Naruto and Sakura have a friendly love is just silly cause they could easily decided to have a relationship.

Oh and what do you mean Naruto hasn't developed? So gaining that brotherly bond with Sasuke, learning to protect his precious people from Haku, deciding to never run away when they encountered Zabusa, and the many other things that have impacted his life haven't caused him to develop at all?

*takes off football gear* Well I'm done, the last part of that post isn't even important. Is it just me, or are their arguments getting worse each time someone posts one?

[Pyroneko 28]

Is it just me, or are their arguments getting worse each time someone posts one?

It's not just you, Noboby.

Anyway, I found another one.

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

NaruHina...well, this pairing actually grew on me, and although they hardly get any screen time together, I wouldnt measure their possibilities based on the amount of encounters they have, but rather, the amount of development, or the amount they grow relationship wise within each encounter...yeah. *sighs*

And well, that being said, we all know that Naruto seeks acceptance and to be acknowledged/respected, right? The thing is, as the series progresses, he slowly earns all that from everyone else.

Hinata, on the other hand, she acknowledged him from the very beginning. And while everyone else "refused to admit that he had any good points", she did. She acknowledged him for who he was, and he didnt even have to earn that acknowledgement the way he had to with Sasuke, Sakura, Neji, etc. She acknowledged him before, Sasuke, Sakura, and maybe even Iruka.

And I think it was pb that said this...or nightmistress...or someone else that I know, but they said something about how when Sakura complements Naruto, he usually brushes the compliment off, whereas when Hinata compliments Naruto, he accepts it. (?)

Who feels like countering this?

[Random Nobody]

Good to know it's not just me who thinks there getting worse.

Another argument eh? *steps up to the plate again* What can I say there arguments may be getting worse, but it's still a lot of fun to shoot them down :devil:

NaruHina...well, this pairing actually grew on me, and although they hardly get any screen time together, I wouldnt measure their possibilities based on the amount of encounters they have, but rather, the amount of development, or the amount they grow relationship wise within each encounter...yeah. *sighs*

Okay, measuring in the amount of development we get......hardly any. There only real conversation didn't really have a big impact on either of them.

And well, that being said, we all know that Naruto seeks acceptance and to be acknowledged/respected, right? The thing is, as the series progresses, he slowly earns all that from everyone else.

Hinata, on the other hand, she acknowledged him from the very beginning. And while everyone else "refused to admit that he had any good points", she did. She acknowledged him for who he was, and he didnt even have to earn that acknowledgement the way he had to with Sasuke, Sakura, Neji, etc. She acknowledged him before, Sasuke, Sakura, and maybe even Iruka.

What is with you NaruHina fans claiming the Hinata recognized Naruto before Iruka? Are you that desperate for hints that your refusing to acknowledge whats right in front of your face. Hinata didn't recognize Naruto until they had their conversation before the Neji fight. You can't recognize or acknowledge someone if they don't know about it, and by the time she told him Iruka and Team 7 beat her to it. Oh and what makes you think he didn't have to earn Hinata's acknowledgement, huh? She acknowledged him because he worked hard and never gave up, which means that to get acknowledged by her he had to do just that, work hard and not give up, therefore he had to earn her acknowledgement just like he earned everyone elses.

And I think it was pb that said this...or nightmistress...or someone else that I know, but they said something about how when Sakura complements Naruto, he usually brushes the compliment off, whereas when Hinata compliments Naruto, he accepts it. (?)

Doesn't Sakura usually compliment Naruto in her head? Last time I checked Naruto wasn't a mind reader. Oh and if your gonna make a claim like this, it's usually best to give examples cause I don't remember Naruto ever brushing off compliments from Sakura.

Man they make this to easy sometimes :devil:

[Pyroneko 28]

Nice work, Nobody. Keep shootin' at 'em. :devil:

Here's one:

Spoiler! --Click here to view--

I think that Sakura could find a way to make Naruto notice Hinata's feelings.

Plus, my only thing with the fillers is this:

I understand that, to our knowledge thus far, they have nothing to do with the manga. But why show so much interaction between Naruto and the other characters? It's building his relationships with the other characters-- I'm sure that the new things he discovers, the new jutsu we see the other rookie nine use, and all that good stuff will come into play in Part 2. Why would you raise up relationships if they're just going to be back at the square 1 when the manga arcs start up again?

That makes no sense to me. I'm sure some of this was pre-meditated with some of Kishimoto's own thoughts.

Y'all know what to do.

[surlymoogle]

I think that Sakura could find a way to make Naruto notice Hinata's feelings.

They're still trotting out this crap?

Somebody please explain to me why Hinata's silly little hero-worship obsession with Naruto should be more important to Sakura than, say, her REAL priorities of retrieving Sasuke and keeping Akatsuki away from Naruto.

[Zahrn]

I think that Sakura could find a way to make Naruto notice Hinata's feelings.

They're still trotting out this crap?

Somebody please explain to me why Hinata's silly little hero-worship obsession with Naruto should be more important to Sakura than, say, her REAL priorities of retrieving Sasuke and keeping Akatsuki away from Naruto.

Sometimes when a person wants something to happen so bad, they will take the slightliest inclination and make a huge deal out of it.

[Random Nobody]

Nice work, Nobody. Keep shootin' at 'em. :devil:

Okay! *reloads* :devil:

Sometimes when a person wants something to happen so bad, they will take the slightliest inclination and make a huge deal out of it.

You mean like how the SasuSaku fans think Sakura will love Sasuke no matter what, despite the fact that he recently tried to stab her?

Oh and that argument you posted was hilarious Pyroneko. Fillers building relationships and introducing new jutsus What will those crazy NaruHina/SasuSaku fans think of next

[Ani]

Episode 64 was when Shikamaru fought Temari in the third part of the Chuunin Exam. Of course, I love that episode because it involves Shikamaru and Temari, who are in my top ten list. And ShikaTema, which is my second favorite Naruto pairing.

Fillers are only there so the manga can get farther ahead. Everything that happens in the fillers mean nothing to the manga because they never happen.

[Random Nobody]

Episode 64 was when Shikamaru fought Temari in the third part of the Chuunin Exam. Of course, I love that episode because it involves Shikamaru and Temari, who are in my top ten list. And ShikaTema, which is my second favorite Naruto pairing.

Fillers are only there so the manga can get farther ahead. Everything that happens in the fillers mean nothing to the manga because they never happen.

Ah so that's what happens in episode 64. Well I can understand why you like the ShikaTema pairing it's really good and it's one of the pairings I like to. Of course I also like ShikaIno....hmmm.....InoShikaTema?

I think they're totally forgetting though that the fillers don't mean crap. I mean in the fillers they make Hinata out to be Kage level while she's only a chuunin in the manga. Not to mention how Neji get's pwned in practically every filler yet in the manga he's the sole Jounin of the entire group. I mean what's with that?

I would think that the NaruHina's and SasuSaku's would be able to realize just how full of crap the fillers are. The fillers themselves completely destroy the characters. After all if Filler Hinata WAS the Hinata that's supposed to be in Part 2 why the heck did she faint by just SEEING Naruto? Heck Filler Hinata does not faint in front of Naruto... only if Naruto has any bodily contact with her...

Also Filler Sakura tried running off to save Sasuke when she NEVER did that in the canon. Thus her character was completely ruined as well.

What the NaruHina's and SasuSaku's don't get is that the animation team is RUINING the characters. Not building them up. Not creating or hinting at relationships. No they're completely butchering the characters personalities.

I'll never understand why the NaruHina/SasuSaku fans are so obsessed with their pairings becoming canon that they'll actually use the fillers as evidence and pretend that they aren't just destroying the characters we've all come to know and love. I mean seriously, is becoming canon that big of a deal? It's not like if your pairing doesn't happen your suddenly not aloud to like it anymore so why do they make such a big deal about it? I don't think I'll ever understand them.

[Ani]

What I hate is that people say Sakura's character is based around Sasuke.

[Zahrn]

You mean like how the SasuSaku fans think Sakura will love Sasuke no matter what, despite the fact that he recently tried to stab her?

Love is blind. *lol*

Episode 64 was when Shikamaru fought Temari in the third part of the Chuunin Exam. Of course, I love that episode because it involves Shikamaru and Temari, who are in my top ten list. And ShikaTema, which is my second favorite Naruto pairing.

I've been re-watching the Rescue Saskue Arc. ( Episode 135 )Shikamaru is distraught over the injuries of his teammtes. Temari notices his agitated state, and she tried to help him out in her own way. It's a very good scene between Temari, Shikamaru's Dad, and himself.

hmmm.....InoShikaTema?

heh, no. Sorry, Shikamaru has his eye on Temari. *lol*