487 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

When the sage first showed up they said that he taught the jutsus to the people as a way for them to be able to defend themselves but from who i dont know.

Yeah, I guess so. We'll see. Madara holds the answer to more of these. That is if there is more stuff.

[DattebayoXShannaro]

So many mythology that I didn't even noticed. You know, I hope there's a twist for next chapter like, "Baka!" not comedy but more like a villain (Madara) way of saying "Thanks." Again, me like when things get tough, not easy.

 

Except for when things get too hard, when the heroes need a dues ex machina to stop it.  Oh, wait. . .

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

Except for when things get too hard, when the heroes need a dues ex machina to stop it.  Oh, wait. . .

Lol.

 

You know, I was taking my spoiled demands elsewhere about how this should be handled, but now, I learn just to wait. I guess the patience actually got me. It's been a while but hey, we're getting close to the end, so I'm worried about the ending.

[Luna]

I was looking at the chapter and obito said " The moonlit dream world is finally upon us" and " the moonlit dream will fill this hellish  void."

 It  could be that  just before Naruto and K8 attack that the dream world happened.

 

This is just my thoughts.

Edited by Baka chan, 17 October 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[Paptala]

Honestly, my main problem is how some people seem to overglorify Sakura. Your answers are quite good, to be honest. And sometimes, I do like being proven wrong (in a non-condescending way). All your answers are the kind of answers I've been trying to lure out (which is why I post here in the hopes someone like you comes out). 
 
Yes, there have been moments of them placing their trust in each other. But it feels so miniscule thanks to Naruto always trying to be a one-man show which leaves Sakura hanging around the kitchen. There needs to be a moment when Naruto is at his most vulnerable and shows his weakness, and that he needs her to overcome that weakness (615 gives me the urge to puke everytime I remember it).
 
628 was a good moment for her, but it's still lacking something. What she needs to be shown doing is something only she can accomplish that Naruto can't. I certainly would like to see her take on a leadership role if Naruto and Shikamaru are unavailable. Which reminds me of a US First Lady that effectively governed over the US for a short moment (a month, if I'm right) while her husband was sick.
 
Another thing, her words ended up to be a tempting fate moment. Way to kick her around, Kishi. It felt like Kishi was trying to diminish her efforts. 
 
My final words for you is that you are basically the kind of person who sees Sakura's relevancy in the story for what it is. Yes, there have been moments like the above, but the silver lining is that (which I think we can agree upon) there is a lack consistency and effort to make the moments significant enough.  
 
You can't deny Kishi failed in this regard. Even if Kishi wraps it up, the lack of consistency concerning their relationship would leave much greatly to be desired. In the end, I'd give him a D+ in characterization when this series is over.

 
 

spoiler

Thanks so much for the kind words, first off.  I'm glad that you thought the answers I gave were essentially what you were looking for.  
 
There have been moments where Naruto has shown Sakura vulnerability (the hospital scene after VOTE, and after loosing Sasuke at Orochimaru's layer being the most prominent examples).  But you’re right in saying that he wasn't really depicted needing Sakura to get over those moments (though at least with the later moment, data book 3 did say that Sakura's gave Naruto strength in that moment).  (On a lesser scale, there was also the moment after Itachi's genjutsu where Sakura had her hand on Naruto's cheek to snap bring him back to his senses).
 
I think that Naruto trying to take everything onto his own shoulders has been one of his major proclaimed character flaws in later part two - as he became stronger, he began getting arrogant (as Itachi pointed out) in thinking he was the only one who could do everything.  This flaw was even pointed out in part one during the first bell test.  Since pointing this out, I think Kishimoto as been trying to get Naruto more in the mindset of relying on others.  I also think that he is ultimately aiming to get Naruto and Sakura to where Minato and Kushina were, given the confirmed parallel, Itachi's words ("your father was able to become hokage because he had your mother and everyone else at his side") and Minato's thoughts after that (how he felt that he could do anything with Kushina at his side).  YMMV as to how successful he's been in this regard (he's dragged it out for longer than necessary imo), but I think there is definitely an intent to get them there.
 
As far as Sakura being depicted doing something Naruto can't, do you not count her abilities as a medic?  Granted it's not flashy, but it’s still something that is entirely hers, and not only has it earned her praise from multiple people. it has also proven to be a very practical skill - especially against Sasori with his poisons, and then again in discovering the secret of the White Zetsu.  Though Naruto's chakra-cloak does have an element of healing apparently, I was never given the impression that it is on the same level as Sakura's abilities (otherwise, none of the shinobi with his cloak would have needed her to heal them with Katsuyu, and Naruto himself wouldn't have needed her to heal him.
 
In regards to Sakura taking a leadership role, she's definitely shown signs that she is capable of doing so.  She was giving out orders during the Pein invasion after Naruto transformed, evacuating the villagers.  I think her speech in 630 has elements of that as well.  But I definitely would love to see more of that from her.  (As for the U.S. First Lady, it's funny that you should mention that, since we just talked about it briefly in class last week).
 
About Sakura's words - are you referring to her saying that she was going to fight with her teammates, only to end up healing on the sidelines after one chapter?  I have to admit, that did frustrate me, and I really wish we would have gotten more of Sakura in action, but I'm still hoping (perhaps futilely, but nonetheless still hoping) that we'll see more from her yet due to the foreshadowing given by Chiyo's words to her and the fact that she has yet to fully release her seal.
 
All that being said, I can readily admit that Kishimoto's execution thus far (at the very least in this arc) has been less than exemplary.  I would have wanted to see more involvement and action from Sakura on a level similar to what we saw in the Rescue Sasuke arc and even from the Sasuke and Sai arc.  Sakura seemed to kind of stall after that in some ways (power and skill wise certainly).  I also definitely want Naruto to really open up to Sakura, communicate real vulnerability to her and really need her to move past it too - in this case, however, I definitely think we have a fair chance of seeing this before the end of the manga.  I realize its “too little too late” for many in the fandom and I can understand where it falls short for you and other dissatisfied readers, but overall I’m happy with what Sakura has gotten – the seal, recognition from Tsunade and others, and a very heroic and selfless attitude on top of it all - and what Naruto and Sakura's relationship has gotten, considering that I'm pretty sure they're set to get even more in the future.
 

---
 
As for that theory about this being a Matrix type world, that's a really interesting idea, but unfortunately, I don't think Kishimoto is going for anything that complex.  I think its more likely, as others have said, that the sword was the birth of the shinobi world figuratively, not literally.

Edited by Paptala, 17 October 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[Mistraal]

 

"Hey Kishi! You just had Lee cast a Rasengan with a ninjutsu skill of like 1. How!? Why?!"

 

Dislike because it implies their abilities are useless, even with their new little Hokage coats of powerups. They "need" Naruto's abilities to be useful.
 

 

I hate the concept of fodderization but Kishimoto loves it.

 

Edited by Mistraal, 18 October 2013 - 12:31 AM.

[Branden]

@mistraal

I really have to wonder why Naruto didn't just use shadow clones.

[TouKen4Life3g]

Well someone fill me in, but how many Bunshin can he do in BM.

[Atheck]

Lee wasn't the one who created the Rasengan. He merely directed it towards its intended target. It's no different than Sakura being handed Chiyo's sealing device to trap Sasori with.

[Strangelove]

 

"Hey Kishi! You just had Lee cast a Rasengan with a ninjutsu skill of like 1. How!? Why?!"

 

Dislike because it implies their abilities are useless, even with their new little Hokage coats of powerups. They "need" Naruto's abilities to be useful.
 

 

I hate the concept of fodderization but Kishimoto loves it.

 

 

HA! that's funny...but they didn't cast anything. The rasengan was already casted before they jumped in.

 

 

I saw some fans saying that the fact Sakura didn't joined in, means that Naruto doesn't care about her at all.

Edited by Strangelove, 18 October 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

 

HA! that's funny...but they didn't cast anything. The rasengan was already casted before they jumped in.

 

 

I saw some fans saying that the fact Sakura didn't joined in, means that Naruto doesn't care about her at all.

Yeah, keep trying. (not you of course).

[Hiraishin]

There's just a crazy hypothesis that is fluttering inside my mind, after what the WSJ editor has written about the next naruto preview.

マダラが語る驚愕の真実！！その時ナルトは！？
Madara tells a shocking truth! And then Naruto will!?

I just realized that 惊愕 can mean "shocking" surely but it's a stronger shock than usual, like a consternation, a panic, a confusion. Like a shock that could astonish everyone. I doubt that it has something to do with Rin's death. Also in this chapter there's something interesting that has caught my eye. Obito said that the Rikudou, with this "Nunoboko" sword created this world. I was like "WTF!?" because I know that the world already existed before the Rikudou.

My crazy hypothesis is that, due to the wsj preview and some hints scattered around the manga, the actual Naruto world is actually like that's Matrix. A kinda sort of Inception. The whole world was already inside a bogus reality.

 

Well, let's see where is going Kishimoto....

A "shocking truth"? Holy crap, wonder what that's all about. I mean I know the previews are more often than not kitten, but I wonder if the whole "Madara tells a shocking truth" thing will ever come up in the future.

 

Yeah, I was also thrown off when he said the sword created this world. I was like, "Wtf?! Uh, okay Obito..." Lol but I guess he meant it figuratively.

 

another crazy and stupid theory...

The Nobunoko sword would be something correlated to THIS

 

guess what's that bridge...

guess who had a naginata on the cover of 616...

 

But it's just a some crazy stuff  so never mind about this xD

Dude... that'd be awesome! Aw man I wish. 

[redragon88]

@mistraal

I really have to wonder why Naruto didn't just use shadow clones.

 

I guess the logical answer would be:

 

Edited by redragon88, 18 October 2013 - 05:49 AM.

[Chatte]

You guys with that sword and all, give me ideas...

[Luna]

You guys with that sword and all, give me ideas...

I was actually waiting for you to come make something out of it.....we baited you...

 

edit: Yay!! I can finally walk up trees( my rank)

Edited by Baka chan, 18 October 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[Chatte]

I was actually waiting for you to come make something out of it.....we baited you...

 

edit: Yay!! I can finally walk up trees( my rank)

So you're luuuuring me, huh?

I tried to search the term of nunoboko or whatever, ever since the chapter appeared but I got nothing... Or maybe I am looking in the wrong places?

nevertheless, what you guys posted stirs my inner mythology geek...

[Codus N]

 

HA! that's funny...but they didn't cast anything. The rasengan was already casted before they jumped in.

 

 

I saw some fans saying that the fact Sakura didn't joined in, means that Naruto doesn't care about her at all.

 

You talking about me? Yes, in essentiality. Basically, it's just that he doesn't care enough about her to actually trust her to help him. .

 

 

spoiler

Thanks so much for the kind words, first off.  I'm glad that you thought the answers I gave were essentially what you were looking for.  
 
There have been moments where Naruto has shown Sakura vulnerability (the hospital scene after VOTE, and after loosing Sasuke at Orochimaru's layer being the most prominent examples).  But you’re right in saying that he wasn't really depicted needing Sakura to get over those moments (though at least with the later moment, data book 3 did say that Sakura's gave Naruto strength in that moment).  (On a lesser scale, there was also the moment after Itachi's genjutsu where Sakura had her hand on Naruto's cheek to snap bring him back to his senses).
 
I think that Naruto trying to take everything onto his own shoulders has been one of his major proclaimed character flaws in later part two - as he became stronger, he began getting arrogant (as Itachi pointed out) in thinking he was the only one who could do everything.  This flaw was even pointed out in part one during the first bell test.  Since pointing this out, I think Kishimoto as been trying to get Naruto more in the mindset of relying on others.  I also think that he is ultimately aiming to get Naruto and Sakura to where Minato and Kushina were, given the confirmed parallel, Itachi's words ("your father was able to become hokage because he had your mother and everyone else at his side") and Minato's thoughts after that (how he felt that he could do anything with Kushina at his side).  YMMV as to how successful he's been in this regard (he's dragged it out for longer than necessary imo), but I think there is definitely an intent to get them there.
 
As far as Sakura being depicted doing something Naruto can't, do you not count her abilities as a medic?  Granted it's not flashy, but it’s still something that is entirely hers, and not only has it earned her praise from multiple people. it has also proven to be a very practical skill - especially against Sasori with his poisons, and then again in discovering the secret of the White Zetsu.  Though Naruto's chakra-cloak does have an element of healing apparently, I was never given the impression that it is on the same level as Sakura's abilities (otherwise, none of the shinobi with his cloak would have needed her to heal them with Katsuyu, and Naruto himself wouldn't have needed her to heal him.
 
In regards to Sakura taking a leadership role, she's definitely shown signs that she is capable of doing so.  She was giving out orders during the Pein invasion after Naruto transformed, evacuating the villagers.  I think her speech in 630 has elements of that as well.  But I definitely would love to see more of that from her.  (As for the U.S. First Lady, it's funny that you should mention that, since we just talked about it briefly in class last week).
 
About Sakura's words - are you referring to her saying that she was going to fight with her teammates, only to end up healing on the sidelines after one chapter?  I have to admit, that did frustrate me, and I really wish we would have gotten more of Sakura in action, but I'm still hoping (perhaps futilely, but nonetheless still hoping) that we'll see more from her yet due to the foreshadowing given by Chiyo's words to her and the fact that she has yet to fully release her seal.
 
All that being said, I can readily admit that Kishimoto's execution thus far (at the very least in this arc) has been less than exemplary.  I would have wanted to see more involvement and action from Sakura on a level similar to what we saw in the Rescue Sasuke arc and even from the Sasuke and Sai arc.  Sakura seemed to kind of stall after that in some ways (power and skill wise certainly).  I also definitely want Naruto to really open up to Sakura, communicate real vulnerability to her and really need her to move past it too - in this case, however, I definitely think we have a fair chance of seeing this before the end of the manga.  I realize its “too little too late” for many in the fandom and I can understand where it falls short for you and other dissatisfied readers, but overall I’m happy with what Sakura has gotten – the seal, recognition from Tsunade and others, and a very heroic and selfless attitude on top of it all - and what Naruto and Sakura's relationship has gotten, considering that I'm pretty sure they're set to get even more in the future.
 

 

Her abilities as a support character has pretty much been dismissed and thrown flying out the window when he started giving out Bijuu chakra freebies. So, again Kishimoto here is diminishing Sakura's role and keep pushing her wayyy into the back of the bus.

 

As for a leadership role, I think the best opportunity for that would've come with Tsunade's death. Tsunade dying would've been another major catalyst for the Alliance to rally themselves. Also, losing their number one medic would've shook up the morals a bit, and it would be up to Sakura, the inheritor of her will to step up to the plate. This would direct the Alliance's, the Kages' and even Orochimaru's attention towards her, giving her the development she needs desperately. I could even see Orochimaru musing that both NS have inherited his teammates' will. That, and we could've gotten to see Hashirama summoning that giantass statue of his and start ripping Madara into confetti over and over.....

 

Anyways, all in all, I do admit that when you look at the progression of her character from Part I to Part II is commendable, but still is less than satisfactory IMO.

[Chatte]

 

You talking about me? Yes, in essentiality. Basically, it's just that he doesn't care enough about her to actually trust her to help him. .

But it's not about trusting her to help him.. He knows she has the Alliance to take care of, thus he knows she has his back.

[Tokura Misaki]

As I've already told the last week, it's confirmed that Naruto will have lead color pages for chapter 652. And the WSJ preview is:

 

マダラが語る驚愕の真実！！その時ナルトは！？
Madara tells a shocking truth! And then Naruto willl!?

 

I smell a big surprise.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

 

I smell a big surprise.

He's going to say "Sasuke is going to betray you again Naruto"

Naruto - "I wont give up" :)

 

 

But it's not about trusting her to help him.. He knows she has the Alliance to take care of, thus he knows she has his back.

 

If it was the case he would surely let her heal Shikamaru alone instead of that explanation "it's Naruto's will.."

I saw more like a test if Naruto was really capable of trusting their power, Naruto acknowledges Sakura's strenght but i dont know to what extent, Naruto is totally confusing this arc, i have no idea what he's doing.

Itachi told him to rely on is friends, but he's sacrificing a great portion of his power to protect them and give powerups, doesnt let his friends fight, but when they do, he make sure they will use his own powers to do it instead of their own.

 

I strongly believed Naruto/Sasuke woudl fight Obito while K11 and the alliance would take down the tree instead of this nonsense.

 

And to conclude actually i feel sorry for Sakura.
Since probably that 615 with Sakura's panel probably give me the suspicious something happened, on 627 when she jumped to heal Naruto, looked more like she wanted to do something for him rather than just healing.
Sakura is trying really hard on this arc to be relevant to Naruto(she sought his acknowledgement on 631) and help Naruto but Naruto takes her down at every chance, when she was healing Shikamaru she even asked for him to let her handle it for him.

And he didnt let her to.

 

I can see her strong self confidence that she got on her powerup slowly vanishing.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 18 October 2013 - 11:42 AM.