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#261 sushi.

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:10 PM

Considering Naruto is dominantly a fighter and is now facing a giant tree that sucks charkra, I don't know what you expected him to do this chapter.  He isn't a support type like Ino, who has a job outside fighting.  You have to remember Naruto started with nothing.  Ino grew up with the privilege of a loving family.  Naruto understands more of the gifts of companionship and bonds that most of us take advantage of today.  You can expect this emotional side of him to be well within his character.

I thought about this too. He couldn't have done anything. But..he did not cry because of that. I don't know why he cried, but I think it was of grief and anger. He did not think "I have nothing else to do, I might as well let a few tears roll".

 

Even with Naruto's sad past, I do not think he treasures his comrades more because he cried for them in this chapter.


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#262 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:11 PM

There were people freaking out on tumblr and another person on the 646 chapter thread saying "this is it, we might be done"... I was just like wuuuuutttttt.

 

Talk about being unnecessarily dramatic, sheesh. People really need to stop jumping to conclusions it's exhausting to keep up with. -_-



#263 Paptala

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:14 PM

 

I agree that this is his last Kurama Mode.  He won't be able to do more afterwards, so this one has to count.

 

 

Considering Naruto is dominantly a fighter, and is now facing a giant tree that sucks charkra.  I don't know what you expected him to do this chapter.  He isn't a support type like Ino, who has a job outside fighting.  You have to remember Naruto started with nothing.  Ino grew up with the privilege of a loving family.  Naruto understands more of the gifts of companionship and bonds that most of us take advantage of today.  You can expect this emotional side of him to be well within his character.

Agreed - Naruto is coming at this from a different place than everyone else, not to mention that Obito pretty much told him that everyone's deaths from this point forward are his fault (which he recalls himself), and he knows that everyone in the alliance is relying on him to protect them (even if they are trying to fight as well).  None of the other rookies have the same burden on their shoulders as Naruto does.  No one expected Ino to protect them, so Ino has no reason to feel guilty over their deaths.

 

Also, its not as though Naruto was giving up as he was in chapter 615 - he was out of power and let his frustration, anger and hurt overtake him momentarily, then got on his feet as soon as he got a slight nudge from Sasuke.

 

I'll agree that it is getting repetitive however (this part is addressed to others who complained about this).

 

There were people freaking out on tumblr and another person on the 646 chapter thread saying "this is it, we might be done"... I was just like wuuuuutttttt.

Some people get freaked out over literally nothing.


Edited by Paptala, 17 September 2013 - 07:16 PM.

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#264 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:17 PM

Ok, well if what I heard is true, I don't understand the problem about Sakura. In fact, this is a good thing for this chapter. I'll bet many would ignore this post, but feel free to do so, but if you're in need to understand her or just want to read for good support, then I thank you for your time.

 

Well, I don't know how is this Sakura's fault or anything bad around her. First of all, you should be happy that she's getting the screen time she's gotten and I know why, but let's go down the line. First of all, she got hurt from something, so she just got recovered from this. Here's the thing. Sakura just got Saving Private Ryan intro on. What I mean is that she got knocked, watch all of them getting killed left and right, then recover and the war continues. Simple as that. It's like getting hit a big blast and wake up realizing that one of your friend got killed/severely injured. You can't blame Sakura because of this. This is war and getting caught by the God Tree is like many going forward only to get shot by turrets. So now she got back up and wonder what's the current situation and heard Shikamaru got caught. Think as how Kakashi think everything is ok but then found out Obito got crushed by a boulder. So yes, Sakura can't be blamed. One moment that you can't resist the massive destruction.

 

Next, Sakura unable to help others. First of all, give her a break because at least she actually cares about everyone, which btw what a heroine truly is, not focusing on one or even yourself. At this point, you can see why Naruto and Sakura are the heroes, because they care about others. Does that mean others like Konoha 9 doesn't? Not really, but the reason why Kishi don't show that, whether true or not, is because that's not their place. They're side characters, not meant to have many dimensions to their characters. That's the main characters' job and if they don't have it, then the writer would need to write better in order to capture the audience attention. Also, the side characters, mainly K9, only get emotional when the classmates are the one to get axed, so that's the closest you get from them.So I really appreciate this chapter for showing Naruto and Sakura's agony because they're our heroes and stuff like this tells us this is their final mission. Not really because of Sasuke but in terms of terrorists' threats and all, this is it. But no, you want her to go all out asap when this chapter is about one final stand before everything becomes a waste.

 

So going back on not helping others, again, Katsuyu gave an reasonable explanation and again, Sakura was caught in the bad moment. When she recovered, everything was pretty much wiped out. While she can help one (Shikamaru), she wants to help all, because again, she's the heroine and that's what they do. But no, please kick ass. Look, I'm not saying she will or not, but calm down. This is a grief chapter, which by the way I called it again in the podcast that the next chapter is going to have talking and Naruto will end it with his ultimate determination. The funny thing is I even heard this talk and the guy even knows that medic equals very heroic, but again, since this is a Shounen, everyone must fight 24/7, but I digress. So yes, at least she cares about others, but unfortunately, Katsuyu minis are drained out, so to say, and pretty told her that they are in fact dead. Sakura was broken because they are dead and it's not that she couldn't save them because of her being weak, which is absurd. It's because a mass genocide just happened that happened to be done with a massive destruction that is the God Tree.

 

So now, we got some complaints about the emotional turmoil from her. Why is that a bad thing? She's going through what Naruto went and going through now. She cares about everyone, so of course she feels upset. Here's something you got to credit, at least she is worthy to be person in the Hokage's office for having that much care for her own people. She has grown up a lot but now, she's entering the hard process: losing thousands in a blink of an eye. That's why the RTN movie felt close to original characters because if people thinks Sakura only care about Konoha in that movie due to role switch, that's completely wrong. It's the fact that she really loves her home as much as Naruto. By the way, this is not a pairing argument, this is about Sakura, so don't go crying on me, I'm only going with the manga being told. This is why in that movie works really well because it will tell you that minus personality, her character would be the same. So needless to say, she is like Naruto in that sense.

 

That all being said of course she will feel pain. Naruto is, right? She felt the same back in Pain because her beloved home is gone at the time. That's why she got this kind of screen time and not so much on others because there's more to her and let's not forget one important aspect: she's made to be human. Heck, I like Naruto here because Sakura knows he's human, but not many others really don't get it. They have to look inside to understand that even though he's their savior, he's still human. This is why I like this chapter and sure, it's redundant for Naruto feeling this, but again, he's human and this is pretty much a setup for one final battle, in this war of course.

 

So should we be angry at Kishi for this chapter on Sakura? Of course not, but if you let the antis or even your own first impression, then you're missing the point. Who is to say Sakura is highly motivated after this chapter? Remember, in chapter 573, she don't want him to handle the burden alone anymore. Also, remember chapter 628, she was worried but after Naruto talked, she was very motivated to the point she said "Shannaro" which by the way means that she's very hyped. If you're a fan, you would know this already. The reason why she does so, without any pairing argument inserted here, is because she can relate to Naruto easily from experiences and characteristics. Why you think we got two panels of her reaction in 628? Anyway, the next chapter could very well lead to anything, but no doubt Sakura will get more focus after this chapter. Time will tell. Well I hope you have a good time reading this. It wasn't easy to be honest, because I held frustration on unnecessary, intentional or not, argument, so here it is, or at least partial of it. Anyway, don't get down. Next chapter, next volume, it should be a good one for her.



#265 arian_rad

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:19 PM

Agreed - Naruto is coming at this from a different place than everyone else, not to mention that he Obito told him that everyone's deaths from this point forward are his fault (which he recalls himself), and he knows that everyone in the alliance is relying on him to protect them (even if they are trying to fight as well).  None of the other rookies have the same burden on their shoulders as Naruto does.
 
Also, its not as though Naruto was giving up as he was in chapter 615 - he was out of power and let his frustration and hurt overtake him momentarily, then got on his feet as soon as he got a slight nudge from Sasuke.
 
I'll agree that it is getting repetitive however (this part is addressed to others who complained about this).
 
Some people get freaked out over literally nothing.


I thought the same, it seemed he was cryin out of anger but not put of the fact that he was giving up. He was just so drained, tired and done with seeing everyone he thinks of his comrades die that he couldn't help but let out tears of anger. Naruto had no thought of giving up but he just got a slight nudge from sasuke that this is far from over. Seeing sasuke like that naruto realized all his past regrets, everything he has endured up to now and realized if he gave into obito all that enduring in the past would honestly be for nothing. I think he put himself into that mode out of pure willpower alone with help from kurama's chakra. This is surely the last time he will go into this mode. I say get ready cause we are nearing the end, seriously this time.

#266 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:37 PM

Agreed - Naruto is coming at this from a different place than everyone else, not to mention that Obito pretty much told him that everyone's deaths from this point forward are his fault (which he recalls himself), and he knows that everyone in the alliance is relying on him to protect them (even if they are trying to fight as well).  None of the other rookies have the same burden on their shoulders as Naruto does.  No one expected Ino to protect them, so Ino has no reason to feel guilty over their deaths.

 

Also, its not as though Naruto was giving up as he was in chapter 615 - he was out of power and let his frustration, anger and hurt overtake him momentarily, then got on his feet as soon as he got a slight nudge from Sasuke.

 

I'll agree that it is getting repetitive however (this part is addressed to others who complained about this).

 

Some people get freaked out over literally nothing.

 

For me, I saw Naruto crying in this chapter as an expression of pure, raw rage. He wasn't giving up, he was furious, at himself yes, but I think also at Obito, who keeps telling him "This is your fault, people will suffer because you resisted." Naruto is a highly emotional being, and it's not out there to think he's feeling battered mentally, emotionally and physically.



#267 Darkness

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:41 PM

I thought about this too. He couldn't have done anything. But..he did not cry because of that. I don't know why he cried, but I think it was of grief and anger. He did not think "I have nothing else to do, I might as well let a few tears roll".

 

Even with Naruto's sad past, I do not think he treasures his comrades more because he cried for them in this chapter.

 

It's not that he "treasures" his comrades more than the others. The fact he is utterly frustrated for not being able to protect every single one of them is what led to his breakdown. The last events revolved around Naruto trying to prevent any Shinobi from dying while Obito kept taunting him and trying to prove his resolve wrong. The problem is this time Obito managed to do something huge: he made Naruto look around and see everyone laying dead on the ground as if he were never able to protect anyone since the beginning. While yes, most of them are all fodder to us, Naruto considers them all equally as his comrades.

 

Furthermore, given his own life experiences and all the pain he has been through, it is like Psychox said: after finally being able to bring the Shinobi world to fight together as an alliance, after finally being acknowledged by so many people, Obito is just blowing away every candle he has been struggling so hard to lighten.

 

So yes, his crying is more than justifiable.


Edited by Darkness, 17 September 2013 - 07:44 PM.

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#268 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:41 PM

 

For me, I saw Naruto crying in this chapter as an expression of pure, raw rage. He wasn't giving up, he was furious, at himself yes, but I think also at Obito, who keeps telling him "This is your fault, people will suffer because you resisted." Naruto is a highly emotional being, and it's not out there to think he's feeling battered mentally, emotionally and physically.

That's how I see too. I feel like Naruto is going to go all out on him and heck, I think he will go for the kill. He's being this angry as like meeting Nagato the first time. That said he might have to calm down before he does kill him let alone killing all Bijuus inside.



#269 sushi.

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:44 PM

Agreed - Naruto is coming at this from a different place than everyone else, not to mention that Obito pretty much told him that everyone's deaths from this point forward are his fault (which he recalls himself), and he knows that everyone in the alliance is relying on him to protect them (even if they are trying to fight as well).  None of the other rookies have the same burden on their shoulders as Naruto does.  No one expected Ino to protect them, so Ino has no reason to feel guilty over their deaths.

 

Also, its not as though Naruto was giving up as he was in chapter 615 - he was out of power and let his frustration, anger and hurt overtake him momentarily, then got on his feet as soon as he got a slight nudge from Sasuke.

 

I'll agree that it is getting repetitive however (this part is addressed to others who complained about this).

Nice argument. Pathos arguments never get to me, or even any sentence that begins with "You have to understand".

 

You could question what would get to you more; the villain blaming you for everyone's deaths or your father's death? Now examples aren't that big of a deal - they make the point clearer and easier to explain. But even if you remove them; I still think we should be past this by now, I agree that it feels repetitive. I would rather want to see him be scarred for life later, rather than involuntarily letting it out now, but that's just me. Because this is the moment Naruto has potential to grow as a leader.


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#270 BakeNeko-Chan

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:47 PM

That's how I see too. I feel like Naruto is going to go all out on him and heck, I think he will go for the kill. He's being this angry as like meeting Nagato the first time. That said he might have to calm down before he does kill him let alone killing all Bijuus inside.

 

I what to see Naruto go for the kill, no holds barred. I think that would be awesome.

 

Also, any ideas on when we're going to see Kakashi again? Poor guy's still trapped in the other dimension.



#271 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:48 PM

 

I what to see Naruto go for the kill, no holds barred. I think that would be awesome.

 

Also, any ideas on when we're going to see Kakashi again? Poor guy's still trapped in the other dimension.

Most likely the next volume. The real question is will it be during the battle or at the end.



#272 Kster95

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:49 PM

 Hinata says "Naruto-Kun" it must be cannon now. 


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#273 T XD

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:51 PM

Also, any ideas on when we're going to see Kakashi again? Poor guy's still trapped in the other dimension.

I think Kakashi will be a surprise element for Obito. He's still in the parallel world of Obito, so anytime he can break out.

 

I think it will be when something important like Obito's death and he's finally out, or when Obito is going to do something dangerous or something. He's still there for surprise. If not, he would be with them already.


Edited by T XD, 17 September 2013 - 07:51 PM.


#274 sushi.

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:52 PM

 

I what to see Naruto go for the kill, no holds barred. I think that would be awesome.

 

Also, any ideas on when we're going to see Kakashi again? Poor guy's still trapped in the other dimension.

I think it will take a while, because the Kages just arrived. They're going to somwhat save the day, and give new hope. Kakashi has to make an big entrance a bit later..to make it more fleshed out, and Kishi will give him the perfect timing of course.

 

--

I just thought of something. If Shikamaru dies now, his death has potential be even worse than Neji's. Different reasons ofc, but still. If an important character like him is gonna die, it might at least be epic. :confused: That's why I'm crossing my fingers, even though Sakura-chan says it's too late.


Edited by sushi., 17 September 2013 - 07:53 PM.

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#275 pharix

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:56 PM

whole lot of "................" in this chapter  :sweat:
 

Hinata says "Naruto-Kun" it must be cannon now.

I'm not gonna say it DEFINITELY means something but the fact that Sakura is the one who says "We're in his heart" or whatever and Hinata just says his name (again) can't be ignored :P

Edited by pharix, 17 September 2013 - 08:04 PM.


#276 DattebayoXShannaro

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:56 PM

Nice argument. Pathos arguments never get to me, or even any sentence that begins with "You have to understand".

 

You could question what would get to you more; the villain blaming you for everyone's deaths or your father's death? Now examples aren't that big of a deal - they make the point clearer and easier to explain. But even if you remove them; I still think we should be past this by now, I agree that it feels repetitive. I would rather want to see him be scarred for life later, rather than involuntarily letting it out now, but that's just me. Because this is the moment Naruto has potential to grow as a leader.

 

Well, actually experiencing a war is far different from reading one.  One fact readers take advantage of sometimes.  We can't just say, "we should be past this kind of thing", when we're not actually experiencing it.


Edited by DattebayoXShannaro, 17 September 2013 - 07:57 PM.


#277 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

How many chapters do you guys think '15 minutes' will be? This really is becoming DBZ!

If one night is taking more than 2 years what 15 minutes will be :)


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#278 merryGOflava

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:11 PM

cool chapter....but I hope Shikamaru doesn't die!! T^T.....

 

also...


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#279 Mistraal

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:13 PM

Moving on to the bad part of this chapter.

Dude Karin, why Kishi did that to her character?

To make Sakura look better.

I'm thoroughly convinced that Kishi is either unwilling or unable to write Sakura out of her crush on Sasuke through her own means. She'll come out of it due to Naruto's love. Therefor, in the meantime, we have this trainwreck named Karin subbing in and looking 10x worse than Ino or Sakura ever did to make his heroines look better by comparison. You'll notice during the times Sakura gets limelight, Karin tends to get REALLY BAD at the fangirl crap. They normally appear together in the manga but in separate locals.

Also this kind of writing is sexist as hell but who cares anymore. :ermm:



 


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So THAT'S how it is!!!!

 

 


#280 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:14 PM

If one night is taking more than 2 years what 15 minutes will be :)

I'll give 3 volumes. 10 chapters is 5 minute worth.

 

cool chapter....but I hope Shikamaru doesn't die!! T^T.....

 

also...

Yeah....I don't think abusive cuts it. Try more deeper than that. And here we speculated how NaruSaku action in one room would be like considering they're perverts.






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