381 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

I have faith. That's all I'm saying. That said chapter 2 of the volume, bring it on.

[Canadian_DJ]

It's simple, really. Sakura standing still in the same spot in this battle all the time while having a seal showing on her forehead that she can pull out any technique, ability, jutsu that she wants and can do... That won't happen cause it can't happen. Kishi will have her to make her at least make a move.
 
When Sakura showed on the battlefield when the alliance arrived, many started to panic cause Sakura isn't doing anything till came the time that she started to act then shows us what she's capable to do. Not everything will happen in one chapter...
 
Have some faith in Sakura.

Exactly, have some faith in our heroine.

[Atheck]

Look Atheck, the reason i put all those "agree to disagree" is so if you still dont agree, we can just stop, since clearly no one is gonna change their mind. I believe what your saying, just doesnt fit, your whole post, including sakuras status as heroine and sakura considered a good heroine.

 
You didn't specifically address any of my counterarguments relating to why her status as heroine is so ambiguous with these lacklustre appearances in numerous arcs or why her contributions to the overarching story have been minimal. IMO Kishi has done quite a poor performance in consistently depicting her as a figure of significance outside of her colleagues. What makes her any more relevant to the plot than Tsunade or Mei past her relationship to Team 7 or that she is the up and coming protege of a Sannin? Not that much really.
 
Naruto is the jinchuuriki of one of the Sage's creations and he's been touted as the reincarnation/successor to Rikudou Sennin who would bring peace and stability to the world. Sasuke, after his epiphany, has his own ideological and moralistic conflicts with. In addition to that, Orochimaru is still roaming about the continent with his personal agenda. He reaffirmed that his motive continues to be the acquirement of Sasuke's body. There is no reason to believe that he's forsaken his original objective. That right there offers a personalized antagonist to Sasuke not only because of Orochimaru's fascination with Sasuke, but also he presents an imminent hazard to Konoha. 
 
Sakura has... An unresolved intimate subplot with Naruto, playing catch-up so she can finally surmount her Sannin teacher, interactions with Kakashi or Sasuke, and her friendship with Ino. Oh, and she will likely reiterate her support to Naruto's desire to become Hokage whilst opposing Sasuke. There's a stark contrast between what Naruto and Sasuke have going for themselves and what Sakura's fate is. 
 
I'm not insinuating that she  should acquire a role equal to that of her male teammates. I don't even expect her to do much else in this battle. The point is that  there can potentially be a downside to applying the idea of a "normal girl" to your heroine if you're wanting them to perform heroic feats. But then for the third time I would have to return to the idea that Kishi's perception of heroism for Sakura is different compared to Naruto or Sasuke's. 
 

I could reply back to you why and why sakura isnt inferior to her comrades, about the seal etc and counter your arguments,

 
You would be the first person I have ever seen who attempted to dispute that she literally could handle herself in a battle against Naruto and Sasuke currently. I don't think most of the people even on this forum believe that Sakura is on their level.
 

Oh and, im not japan's head man, but the same way we know that there are people who bash on sakura in the west and are ignorant just by telling on the internet, I've been on many japanese forums and haven't seen anything or anyone say sakura is a terrible heroine.

 
There could be hundreds, if not thousands of websites dedicated to the Naruto franchise in the country of Japan alone. All with their own fanbase populations specifically interested in a particular character for a myriad of reasons. Have they been inquired about their opinions concerning Sakura or her heroine status? That, I wonder...
 

Well, Atheck, it is your opinion as well.

It isn't an opinion that Tsunade's more versatile repoitoire of canonized medical ninjutsu allow her to assess and handle a more intricate and various array of medical afflictions than Sakura. They're both practitioners of restorative ninjutsu and medicine first and foremost. And thus far more evidence has been presented to correlate to Tsunade being the superior practitioner.
 
I don't care what Kishi "might" or "can" do when referring to what the characters are capable of currently. The fact is, he hasn't  depicted those things with Sakura performing them yet. I don't put Konohamaru on par with Hiruzen just because he "might" one day attain a similar level of strength. It hasn't been confirmed and neither is it existent yet. That is the point I have been stressing to make.  

Kishi can make Sakura stronger than anyone on the field if he wanted.

Yes, he could do that, but no where in the manga has it even been intimated that she is the strongest. The possibility of that actually happening is moot but with the exalted "god of shinobi" himself, who's status had remained unchallenged until now, admitting that Tobi is his superior, as a regenerating zombie with infinite chakra at his disposal no less, Sakura emerging as the victor above everyone else is as likely as Tenten pulling out the Bashosen and single-handedly obliterating Madara with it. 
 

Just look at Sasuke who gains powers through writer will and not logic. This is especially true in a fictional world where the writer can pretty much do whatever they want.

 
They have virtually free reign over anything and everything in the fictitious world that they created, yes. Still, there is a criterion that needs to be met before we go and announce this or that as existing. Most of us don't just preemptively assign protagonists to the top of the tier list at the beginning of a manga without cause or evidence to indicate such. 
 
If Kishi wants to prove that Sakura is superior to Tsunade, then let him prove it through her actions, without any implicative quotes making us question otherwise. I don't know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.
 

I'm sorry, but this is just denial right here. There are so many instances where surprise effects come into play that never had build up to them.

I'm not in denial though. I don't understand why you would make such a bold preconception about someone else like that.

Sakura had not been taken under the tutelage of Tsunade until the end of P1. Before then, she wasn't aware of any basic medical ninjutsu nor did she ever use enhanced strength to indicate that she was capable of using Tsunade's abilities prior to falling under her wing. She didn't know those abilities at the time because Tsunade wasn't even in the village at the time to instruct her.

Let me repeat my previous statements:

When Sakura conjured up Katsuyu, that was solid evidence depicting her ability to perform summoning jutsu. The claim had substance to itself then. But prior to that moment no one was about to perch Sakura on a tower as the equal of Tsunade just because she "might" reveal summoning jutsu.
 
I don't care what Kishi "might" or "can" do when referring to what the characters are capable of currently. The fact is, he hasn't  depicted those things with Sakura performing them yet. I don't put Konohamaru on par with prime Hiruzen just because he "might" one day attain a similar level of strength. It hasn't been confirmed and neither is it existent yet. That is the point I have been stressing to make.  
 
Still, there is a criterion that needs to be met before we go and announce this or that as existing. Most of don't just preemptively assign protagonists to the top of the tier list at the beginning of a manga without cause or evidence to indicate such. 

Can you discern what the context of my message was? Yes, I completely understand that Kishi can offer substantiated evidence to show this or that happening. But that's not even what I'm trying to argue. The point is what I already stated three times now in the italicized reiterations above. Sakura doesn't have all of the same abilities as Tsunade until otherwise shown. If and when she reveals that her medical technique has a greater effect than Tsunade's, then it becomes plausible that Sakura is superior in the field of medical ninjutsu.
 

Would you say Naruto learning Sage mode and being better than Jiraiya at it was foreshadowed? Here is where you're probably say that "Yes, because he was Jiraiya's student."

 
Foreshadowed in the same regard as any shonen protagonist overcoming the inhibitions that made teachers and predecessors fail at a specific duty, fighting style, or ability; it fulfills the stereotype that has long existed in numerous manga. I don't recall it ever being alluded to that Naruto would master senjutsu and overcome Jiraiya before the Invasion of Pain arc. In fact, he wasn't even aware of what senjutsu was before Fukasaku mentioned it to him.

Still, even after SM I would argue that Naruto had progress to make if he wanted to completely overcome HM Jiraiya when he had Ma and Pa available to him to maintain a practically unending SM with all of their techniques at his disposal, including Frog Song.
 

Well, that same logic I can apply to Sakura and Tsunade.

 
The discrepancies lie in the fact that Naruto had several fundamental advantages that Jiraiya lacked in being an Uzumaki and having a bijuu's chakra at his disposal to use. 
 
In the comparison of Sakura vs Tsunade, the situation is reversed with Tsunade having the natural advantages and Sakura being the underprivileged commoner. Does this mean that Tsunade will eternally remain the superior? No, there is evidence to suggest that Sakura has the potential to surpass Tsunade. However, it doesn't mean that she has done so yet outside of the area of brute strength (circumstantially).
 

There have been many substance claims in the manga where several people have said "Sakura is going to be more powerful than Tsunade." Kakashi and Jiraiya to name a few if I remember correctly.

 
They're suggestive and it could be perceived as foreshadowing Sakura one day outperforming Tsunade, but comments are only part of the equation. Physically asserting your superiority over your predecessor with greater strength, a more in-depth understanding of medical concepts, and the ability to uniquely restore different illnesses or afflictions are the evincible feats that Sakura needs to show. 

By the way, Jiraiya never implied that Sakura "is going to be more powerful than Tsunade". 
 

 
He commented on how Sakura was beginning to resemble Tsunade more during a comedic situation where the apprentices were being likened to the Sannin in personality and for Sakura, the physical strength which she attained. But please, if you have an instance of Jiraiya claiming that Sakura would one day surpass Tsunade then provide it. 
 
As for Kakashi, he never argued with any certainty that Sakura would surpass Tsunade. Actually, those weren't even the words that he uttered.
 

 
Emphasis on the word "may" because it indicates possibility or likelihood, not that she will undeniably become superior. Something peculiar to note about Kakashi's statement is that he referred to Sakura as possibly becoming "a better ninja". When Naruto had taken Jiraiya's mantle as the frog sage, it was stated by Fukasaku and Shima that he had surpassed his teacher. There isn't an outright comment about Sakura doing that and generally it is left open to interpretation. I wonder why that is. It could mean that Sakura will overcome Tsunade in a few select areas, but in others, Tsuande will continue to remain on top. But all of this is just speculation. 
 
The only other referable moment is Hashirama arguing that Sakura's strength "might" be more powerful than Tsunade's, or his last memory of her. 
 
Comments aside, it was only recently shown that Sakura could use several more of Tsuande's jutsu. None of which any of the medical personnel claimed were better than the 5th Hokage's. At best, she is the equal of Tsunade in remote healing, but the multifaceted abilities that the Sannin has continue to put her above her student in the field of medical ninjutsu. 
 

Point is, your opinion is just that. Sure you can pull up manga pages, but unless you bring up a manga page that says "No, Sakura is still weaker" then I will say that she is as least on par if not better than Tsunade.

 
It's not opinion that Tsunade was able to scramble the electrical signals of Kabuto's body. It isn't subjective that Tsunade was claimed to be the only one who could restore Orochimaru's arms after they were petrified and neither is it opinion based that she can heal psychological trauma, regenerate internal organs, or that she has exhibited greater endurance than Sakura's comparatively average feats (outside of #632 when she punched harder). 

 

I feel you come off as saying "Because I haven't seen her do it, means she can't do it."

 
Incorrect, my opinion is that you need to objectively perform  these applauded feats and techniques before reconsidering opinions. I think most readers will say that they don't just automatically assign unfounded demonstrations or showings to characters just because they have a chance at showing them. They don't preemptively classify Sakura as the master just because she revealed conditionally superior strength and nothing else. 
 

Well, same with the slug summoning. We haven't seen her do it till jsut now and many have laid claim that she could.

 
It wasn't made official that she could use summoning until chapter #633. No one beforehand was arguing that Sakura could pull Katsuyu out of nowhere in hypothetical match ups because there was nothing to prove that she could summon. They don't just rely on the excuse that because Sakura is Tsunade's disciple that she "may" summon Katsuyu.
 

I guess those people were right to have that speculation as there was a good chance she could. Same with this. There is a good chance she is as powerful as Tsunade at the moment. More powerful? I am not sure, but I am sticking with "just as powerful."

 
Your explanation of there being a "good chance" is purely speculation. Don't try to assert probability as fact because they're two different concepts. Sakura has done nothing else besides cause the geography more devastation than Tsunade. Her medical ninjutsu, remote healing at least, wasn't stated to be more potent or superior than Tsunade's. These are her only direct contributions made so far that are comparable to the 5th Hokage and only the former is an actual demonstration of greater ability, albeit it's questionable.
 

@james

I've pointed many reasons out why sakura is on tsunades level

And I have presented several valid grievances to argue that she hasn't. Her combat feats are severely lacking when she isn't being assisted or having an adequate amount of time to analyse her opponent's attack patterns. She lacks the auto-regeneration necessary to survive fatal attacks that can irreparably damage internal organs or recreate mutilated body parts. Tsunade could just disarrange the electrical signals in Sakura's brain that command her limbs to move and there isn't a single instance to prove that Sakura can adjust herself to the disarray like Kabuto.
 

and how she's mastered fuinjutsu aka her seal,

Sakura hasn't even fully exploited all of the abilities of a seal like Tsunade has. It remains undetermined if that is even possible for Sakura. Even if it's revealed to have a usable jutsu, that hardly makes Sakura a master of an entire field of jutsu study.
 

and how she's in naruto and sasukes league,

Which you didn't specifically address how she could hope to match Amaterasu, chakra arrows that require senjutsu perception to dodge, Susanoo, clones comparable to Naruto's strength/intelligence, Sage Mode, Kurama, or Futon Rasenshuriken. Perhaps you meant that her healing abilities were as impressive as their offensive techniques.
 

but looks like this is just atheck's opinion, even though sakura was never said in the manga to be weaker than sasuke and naruto

It was also never stated that Tonton couldn't beat the Jubi. Some of these don't require the word of mouth to be true. Alot of it is derived from common sense and feat comparisons.
 

and all that other stuff he claims and in fact she was said by hashirama to might be better than tsunade.

Hashirama only stated that Sakura "might" be stronger than his last living memory of Tsunade. Not that she had been surpassed in every conceivable area or that Sakura was irrefutably a "better ninja".

Edited by Atheck, 14 July 2013 - 03:40 AM.

[Kakashi-Sensei]

So next chapter is in two days ?

[Canadian_DJ]

So next chapter is in two days ?

Yeah! i can hardly WAIT!!!

Edit: wait no, its on wednesday. Four days left.

Edited by Canadian_DJ, 13 July 2013 - 08:50 PM.

[HauntedCake]

Yeah! i can hardly WAIT!!!

Edit: wait no, its on wednesday. Four days left.

Its on monday special week aint it?

[T XD]

Someone mentioned that it's on Monday. Don't know if it was false or not.

[六道仙人]

I dunno why but Monday it's Viz's day who will release the full chapters colors for the 45th anniversary of WSJ

 

 

You should to know that this chapter is part of WSJ#33, out yesterday (13/07) in Japan. It has been anticipated to yesterday because Monday 15/07 is holiday (Marine day). Also, in order to celebrate the 45th anniversay of WSJ, the great Akira Toriyama comes back to write a short manga called "Galactic Patrolman" and they've also released a special version of WSJ#33, with full colours chapters.

[Dkey]

I dunno why but Monday it's Viz's day who will release the full chapters colors for the 45th anniversary of WSJ

 

 

You should to know that this chapter is part of WSJ#33, out yesterday (13/07) in Japan. It has been anticipated to yesterday because Monday 15/07 is holiday (Marine day). Also, in order to celebrate the 45th anniversay of WSJ, the great Akira Toriyama comes back to write a short manga called "Galactic Patrolman" and they've also released a special version of WSJ#33, with full colours chapters.

 

so WSJ#33 includes which Naruto chapter 638 or 639?

[LivinG_Dead]

Chapter 639 will be out on wednesday as usual.

 

What comes out monday is the chapter we got this week (Chapter 638).

[Canadian_DJ]

Confusing

[LivinG_Dead]

Confusing

The manga is released in Shounen Jump on the Monday after we get it. We get it a few days earlier (Wednesday) because the scanlators get access to it.

So chapter 638 will be released officially on upcoming Monday.

[Dkey]

The manga is released in Shounen Jump on the Monday after we get it. We get it a few days earlier (Wednesday) because the scanlators get access to it.

So chapter 638 will be released officially on upcoming Monday.

 

Ok thanks but here is something that confuses me. Hope I don't start a panic. I understood that they get manga chapter on Monday. Meaning that scanlators get chapter 639 this monday one week before it's official release but if this week Monday is day off are we gonna get the chapter later?

[Canadian_DJ]

The manga is released in Shounen Jump on the Monday after we get it. We get it a few days earlier (Wednesday) because the scanlators get access to it.

So chapter 638 will be released officially on upcoming Monday.

whoa, had no idea.

[HauntedCake]

So is the Anta/anata a good thing or bad thing?

[nia1994]

i can see where Atheck is coming from, it's fine to be highly critical of sakura as she is supposed to be a main character but by far has the worse development out of the four, i would actually argue that side characters like shikamaru and gara have better development and more improvement in characterization. But at the same time i think this just comes with the territory of female characters in shounen manga and kishis inability to write female characters. 

Edited by nia1994, 14 July 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[sushi.]

So is the Anta/anata a good thing or bad thing?

Good of course.

 

They act like they're married already. All that's missing is a kiss.

[Awes9]

I knew that Obito wouldn't die so early but I didn't except him to become the 10 tails jin, yet the hints were all there I should have seen it coming ; What is Madara's role now ? he has a trump card but nothing says he will suceed altough I still do believe he's the final villain I wonder what is the nature of his trump card that can supposedely gave him an advantage over the Juubi's Jin.

 

Since Obito lost his senses something will happen that will get him back to his normal state and I suppose the only thing that can work is Rin since that's the only thing that seems to matter to Obito. I'm eager to see how all of this will play out, maybe a Rin/Parallel confirmation like we predicted will help Obito take control again, not holding my breath tough. Still I like the action in this chapter I need more fights and less talk, I hope the Juubi's Jin will bring back the tension that this war seriously lacked until now apart from too few instances.

[六道仙人]

Here is the raw special 633 with full color pages http://www.imagebam....be2be0265510132

[rocci]

Here is the raw special 633 with full color pages http://www.imagebam....be2be0265510132

So sakura seal colour is grey.