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Naruto 619


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#261 Derock

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:30 AM

QUOTE (Don-kun @ Feb 6 2013, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And to do so you just kitten on the memory of a dead man (Danzo) and even go to the extent of blaming a Hokage, whith Orochimaru a big Psychopath and the 1st Hokage is own brother. Kishi is trying so hard to defend the Ushiha while hurting his story.
Sometimes I feel like Kishi is just another passionate Sasuke and Uchihas fan, even when it's obvious I still try to give myself the idea that he is a professional writer and not a fan boy.


That is what he's trying to do. It looks like with this chapter, Kishi is "forcing" us to listen to this info, from my own words and interpretation in my last post in order to give them some sort of sympathy: "The clan has mental illness. They aren't really evil. Let's feel sorry for them, especially Sasuke, Obito and even Itachi on certain points." Forgot to add this while I read the chapter: Main cause is Madara.

I, majority of those who doesn't like Sasuke, and some other fans in the neutral zone, don't want to feel that. Especially with all the bs he had done with trying to hax the Sharingan and claiming that the Uchiha clan is near, or in God-tier status. I don't know if this is backing up the sort of friend/brother relationship/bond theme that he's claiming to write for Naruto and Sasuke, but I'm damn sure that Kishimoto isn't making Sasuke a villian as of is now. He's trying to give Sasuke a free-jail pass when the NaruSasu fight is over. That's it. No lessons, no responsibilities for ones' actions. Are there morals at least after all of this is done?

So much favoritism, it is not even funny. And you're supposed to write about the titular character who has a lot of material that has to be covered, yet the favor go towards his rival and all of that info was jammed down in our throats to accept it.

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#262 redragon88

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:46 AM

QUOTE (Qia @ Feb 6 2013, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He doesn't have to have babies with someone in order to have a romantic relationship with them, though? And no I'm not specifically pointing at Sakura. And who knows...maybe there might be a way to stop the curse.

Maybe Karin's Uzumaki genes could finally override the Uchiha curse. That will give way to a new curse free Uchiha clan.

I think one of the many reasons I like SK is because I find it hilarious how Sasuke can never escape the Uzumaki no matter what he does. laugh.gif

First he has a rival/brother that is an Uzumaki, then he befriends an Uzumaki girl that he later gets together with, and afterwards he'll have to spend the rest of his life dealing with his little Uzumaki/Uchiha kids. All while his Uzumaki rival will probably visit him from time to time and bring along his own Uzumaki kids.

Sasuke: Uzumakis, Uzumakis everywhere.

#263 MangaReader

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:02 AM

Doesn't this chapter literally shoot any Sasuke pairing in the foot? After all he went crazy angry after Itachi died... oh well, the fans probably ignore that tongue.gif

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#264 Qia

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:13 AM

QUOTE (MangaReader @ Feb 6 2013, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Doesn't this chapter literally shoot any Sasuke pairing in the foot? After all he went crazy angry after Itachi died... oh well, the fans probably ignore that tongue.gif


What do you mean? Maybe I'm just that delusional, I guess. dry.gif

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#265 MangaReader

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:19 AM

QUOTE (Qia @ Feb 7 2013, 04:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What do you mean? Maybe I'm just that delusional, I guess. dry.gif

Well if I read it correctly, it said Uchiha get stronger if they lose someone they love great, as that emotion turns to hatred, which triggers something inside them that changes their charka greatly

Edited by MangaReader, 07 February 2013 - 03:19 AM.

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#266 Qia

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:32 AM

QUOTE (MangaReader @ Feb 6 2013, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well if I read it correctly, it said Uchiha get stronger if they lose someone they love great, as that emotion turns to hatred, which triggers something inside them that changes their charka greatly


Okay? (sorry, I'm slow sometimes xD). Are you trying to say that Sasuke would choose to kill that person in order to become more powerful? I guess he could, if that's what you're saying. But I don't know...I don't think Sasuke's truly lost to the point that Naruto can't get through to him.

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#267 MangaReader

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:41 AM

QUOTE (Qia @ Feb 7 2013, 04:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Okay? (sorry, I'm slow sometimes xD). Are you trying to say that Sasuke would choose to kill that person in order to become more powerful? I guess he could, if that's what you're saying. But I don't know...I don't think Sasuke's truly lost to the point that Naruto can't get through to him.

No I mean he's already reached that state, thus Itachi is the only guy he's every "loved" on a personal level. He said it himself before that he's severed his bond with Naruto, thus he's not on the same level as Itachi was. And we all know Sakura means nothing to him, nor should she in the future (for him, maybe a good friend at best)

Edited by MangaReader, 07 February 2013 - 03:42 AM.

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#268 Lid

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:33 AM

Finally getting a chance to add thoughts to the chapter! I'll jump right away into the Uchiha brain thing, I've got to say that it just feels like another way to give sympathy for villains, something I've disliked in "Naruto" for a while. Is there times when sympathy for a villain is appropriate? Sure, of course, but it feels like it happens all the damn time in "Naruto." Before it seemed to just be back stories, but now it's actually becoming mental disorders? That really seems like it's just trying to force a plot device for an eventual redemption.

I did find the banter between the kages to be humorous but at the same time, I have to wonder, is this all they are going to be used for? Just some exposition?

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#269 Tsubaki

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:36 AM

I think that this chapter has nothing to do with pairings issues, but it explains some of the Sasuke's behaviors in the past.








“When Uchiha suffer after experiencing the loss of loved one or despair…special chakra sprouts inside their brains,
which affects the optic nerve and produces a change in their eyes.
That is ‘The eye that reflects feelings’ …The Sharingan.”


original post: http://blue-sky-1410...ing-the-loss-of


the fact that Karin was singled out when he awaked a new power in his Mangekyo and also she has been used to show that he had entered the true darkness (When he sacrificed her), this is something that at least we should take into consideration.

...and these posts are really interesting too:

http://fuckyeahsasuk...ocusing-in-this
http://blue-sky-1410...ing-the-loss-of

I don't even ship SasuKarin that much and I wouldn't mind if Sasuke end up alone but I do see logic in these SasuKarin posts... maybe it's just me. unsure.gif

Edited by Tsubaki, 07 February 2013 - 06:25 AM.

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#270 FoolishYoungling

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:17 AM

Man, this chapter is bringing out so much SasuKarin debate.

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#271 redragon88

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:40 AM

QUOTE (FoolishYoungling @ Feb 7 2013, 02:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Man, this chapter is bringing out so much SasuKarin debate.

Ever since Kishi forced on us that random flashback of Karin being in the chunin exmas where Sasuke saved her from a bear I always saw it as an indicator that her connection with Sasuke was more significant than what we originally thought.

If Karin wasn't meant to have a significant relationship with Sasuke then that flashback would feel way too out of place.

Another thing I've noticed is that ever since the Summit arc the interactions between NaruSaku and SasuKarin have reached a stand still that holds until this day. Even with the alliance helping out Naruto we've barely seen him talking with Sakura, and even though Suigetsu and Juugo are accompanying Sasuke in this journey for answers Karin is mysteriously missing even though we saw how she escaped from that jail in Konoha.

Kishi always loves to parallel Naruto and Sasuke in many ways, and I think their development with their significant girl being notably stalled is just another one of those.

#272 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 08:02 AM

I admit, I chuckled a bit the fact there's no demonstration of that theory for Sakura, yet Karin got one. Granted, I'm not saying that means SK is/will be canon, it's just funny that Karin stays one-upping Sakura when in comes to Sasuke. I guess that's why I'll be fine about SK. Not only that, but now, the idea of ending the curse seems more rewarding than ever. Again, not saying it's canon, but I must admit, I find it odd how Karin happened to single one out of this current situation yet we saw her about to break out jail. That does mean something is planned for her. Who knew Kishi has something in mind with Karin, who, long ago, was seen as a normal character with special power. Ever since the title Uzumaki is placed on her, she has risen to the level of importance. Again, Uzumaki is something not tossed around, like Uchiha. Something is up and I am seriously curious. Again, not thinking of pairing, but thinking why Kishi did all this. It really made me curious.

Edited by NaruSaku4Life3g, 07 February 2013 - 08:02 AM.


#273 T XD

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:02 PM

QUOTE (NaruSaku4Life3g @ Feb 7 2013, 11:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I admit, I chuckled a bit the fact there's no demonstration of that theory for Sakura, yet Karin got one. Granted, I'm not saying that means SK is/will be canon, it's just funny that Karin stays one-upping Sakura when in comes to Sasuke. I guess that's why I'll be fine about SK. Not only that, but now, the idea of ending the curse seems more rewarding than ever. Again, not saying it's canon, but I must admit, I find it odd how Karin happened to single one out of this current situation yet we saw her about to break out jail. That does mean something is planned for her. Who knew Kishi has something in mind with Karin, who, long ago, was seen as a normal character with special power. Ever since the title Uzumaki is placed on her, she has risen to the level of importance. Again, Uzumaki is something not tossed around, like Uchiha. Something is up and I am seriously curious. Again, not thinking of pairing, but thinking why Kishi did all this. It really made me curious.

I think Sasuke will get with no one, but I must admit, that SK has a chance. Her family name, 619's explanation about the meaning of evolving new powers with Uchihas which I mean that the fact that Sasuke did that with Karin, that what raises the level of chance for SK.

These things aren't putted in a manga for nothing in return. I still see Karin as just a friend in Sasuke's eyes, in the Uchiha sense, but this has reinforced my " there's a little chance for Sasuke to be with someone". Though, her reuniting with Sasuke and what happened with them after throughout the time, is what I'm waiting cause it will determine whether SK will really happen or not.

Edited by T XD, 07 February 2013 - 02:40 PM.


#274 K9ofChaos

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE (The Tax-Man @ Feb 6 2013, 07:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm sorry, WHAT? So killing all the emo teens out there is fine? And don't even say it's not what you said. The Uchiha's are essentially stuck on perpetual emo mode, but that doesn't make them any less human. So please, read what you write.



#1. In real life, I would never support actual genocide, but the only reason why I make an exception for the Uchiha is because their fictional characters.


#2. Have you seen what the Uchiha are capable of when they let hate dictate their actions? Sasuke wants to completely annihilate the Hidden Leaf Village and Obito wants to forcibly put the entire world under a Genjutsu so that he could live in a fantasy world with his dead crush. Those two are only digging their own graves with their actions. Their only options are either serve life in prison or lead themselves to death.


#3. Sasuke is a sh*tty character who is badly written, I can't feel any sympathy for him and I don't care what anyone else thinks of my views on Sasuke. In my opinion Kishimoto has not handled Sasuke's characterization well enough if he wants to make him sympathetic to the audience.

Edited by K9ofChaos, 07 February 2013 - 03:29 PM.


#275 Don-kun

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

^^
I don't like Sasuke and I don't believe I will ever like his character.

QUOTE (T XD @ Feb 7 2013, 08:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think Sasuke will get with no one, but I must admit, that SK has a chance. Her family name, 619's explanation about the meaning of evolving new powers with Uchihas which I mean that the fact that Sasuke did that with Karin, that what raises the level of chance for SK.

These things aren't putted in a manga for nothing in return. I still see Karin as just a friend in Sasuke's eyes as just friend, in the Uchiha sense, but this has reinforced my " there's a little chance for Sasuke to be with someone". Though, her reuniting with Sasuke and what happened with them after throughout the time, is what I'm waiting cause it will determine whether SK will really happen or not.

I don't know about you but I see Karin asking Sasuke why he try to kill her then later point out that his teammate really feels something for him so why he try to kill her with no hesitation then ask him if he ever felt something for her.

Don't get me wrong because I can also picture Karin telling Sasuke that she thought his teammate only had feelings for him but when her other teammate showed up she could sense how her heart felt a lot more warmer and at peace is like her feelings are stronger but she is hiding it from him.

That said SK fans need to keep in mind that their pairing could also be used has a tool for SS, Sakura does not know how Karin feels about Sasuke but Karin knows that Sakura loves Sasuke. Even if kishi still wants to pair Sasuke with someone, SK also needs to worry about NH, if NH is still in the picture and in some miraculous way it manage to overcome NS, there is way Kishi will pair Karin with Sasuke and leave Sakura single.

Edited by Don-kun, 07 February 2013 - 02:11 PM.


#276 tricksie

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

QUOTE (Nate River @ Feb 6 2013, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with your basic point and I am equally let down by the fact that four of Konoha's finest were rescued from the Death God and resurrected for THIS?! An expose about how the Uchiha love too much and seem predisposed as a group for this type of behavior. For me, there is little that frustrates me more than author's writing in plot devices that absolve, softens, or removes responsibility or culpability from bad actors. It would be on thing if he were setting up a scenario where he wanted to looked deep into genuine mental illness issues, but this isn't that. This is a naked attempt to move a clan that generally been portrayed as evil and move them into gray territory: to say these are not inherently bad people (I don't people thought that anyway), but good people predisposed to more extreme reactions when bad stuff happens to them, which explains why they kill everything in sight when it all goes to hell.

I could say ohyou'resoright after every graph...but I'll stop myself and just say it here. happy.gif Kishimoto has latched onto this affliction as something that hinders all Uchiha, and thus gives Sasuke something new to overcome. He has created a new problem to backpeddle from.

I already had problems with Itachi wiping out the entire clan (handy side-effect of sharingan brain fever: it delivers an off-handed justification to Itachi's massacre), because not every single clan member (even the babies and grannies) could have been potential revolters. But this new "illness" only works if everyone in the entire clan gets it. My understanding of the sharingan was that not every Uchiha member could awaken the sharingan. Only the fairly talented ones. Just as only a very small handful were supposed to have awakened the Mangekyo.

So if you're sharingan is not awoken then you should be safe right? Hmmm.... Ah...hell, better wipe 'em all out, just in case! rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
I think it's a preemptive strike to try and justify Sasuke's later treatment, particularly any redemption (and any actions associated with it) he receives later on down the line. I think this is the predominant purpose of this. It also gives him chance to expand on the power of love, generally. In short, tow show that people like Danzou and the second are wrong. It has the added benefit of pilling on his earlier retconning of how Sasuke awakened his eyes.


Yes, I think it is put out there to make us sympathize with what Sasuke is going to do later on. Lessen the blow and make him redeemable.

It's frustrating that Danzo gets the bulk of the blame when his behavior is keeping with the role that was assigned to him. As a shinobi tasked with a secret police to keep the village safe. But this "love" stuff - which is completely one-sided and subjective and selfish — will, I feel, will be used as an equal comparison. When...it's not.

Obito's situation is a perfect example. We don't know how Rin feels about him. Yet Obito has gone crazy and become a mass-murderer anyway, all because he loved her. It would be like if Hinata (one-sided love) lost Naruto to Sakura (mutual love), and Hinata became the next Obito. It's not Naruto or Sakura's fault (they didn't do this to her - to warrant some kind of revenge). And Hinata's feelings aren't for the good/safety of the village or the love of those around her.

Using love as the justification is for why individuals do horrific things — then hanging your plot on that — is fraught with problems. By pinning this as a mental problem of the clan, it absolves the whole group of their responsibility, and justifies Itachi's extermination. By pinning this on an individual, like Sasuke, it absolves him of the responsibility of his revenge driven actions.

Just as we know Obito's actions are going to be absolved by his love of Rin.

And yes, not a complete absolving, as you say. But a softening. If the ultimate goal is redemption, and Kishimoto has written himself into a corner and is not willing to write storylines for his hero to do the very hard thing of affecting change and saving the fallen character, then this chapter is what has to happen. A cluster of ooc behavior, for the sole purpose of telling Sasuke about "love."

These are leaders, military men. How the hell would they know about something which apparently the Uchiha clan couldn't even grasp? If it was this straightforward and simple, so much so that all the kages know it without questioning, why the hell did they order their genocide? Why didn't they just hug it out? lol

QUOTE
I'm reminded of an old Family Guy episode where Peter explains his obsessive controlling behavior by stating he just "loves too much." This stinks of that. I suppose we could make the claim that this means he cannot be allowed to be in a pairing because who knows what great calamity the world will face if it doesn't work out. Of course, it seems obvious to me Sasuke will prove to be the one who overcomes it, which is how I agree with your argument that this could used as an avenue for SS. It's not something unique to that or SK or even the Naru-Sasu relationship, but it is rather convenient that a guy so full of hate is only so because he was so full of love before. As for the spulation that this hints at SK, I'd rather hope not because something like this making it's way to that relationship it nauseating.

It's very fishy to me that Sasuke is talked to about love, and we have no idea where the prime giver of his childhood love and main subject of tension in adult love for his rival (Sakura, obviously) is no where to be found. It is completely ooc that instead of wiping out Konoha when he had the means and opportunity, Sasuke is instead listening to a lecture on love. Not that he's going to turn all soft and squishy. Just that the whole thing is out-of-character and out of place with the plot and motivation.

QUOTE
Yeah, and I'm a bit confused as to why they would provide these kind of answers (and why the first would screw around) in front of the guy that made the first two fight the third and then later kill the third AND who used the fourth's tools to bring them all back again. The third his objective for many years was to lay waste to what they worked so hard to create, but let's forget about that. Of course the info they provided so far is so lame...that it's really...who cares if they know?

Totally. Don't you think Sarutobi should have some harsh words for Orochimaru? Same as the First and Second, who Orochimaru brought back and forced to fight their own student? Minato seems to be the smartest of the bunch, and even he's quiet.

At the very least Minato should be telling Sasuke to gtfo of the story and let his son have it back!

#277 Codus N

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 02:53 PM

QUOTE (tricksie @ Feb 7 2013, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At the very least Minato should be telling Sasuke to gtfo of the story and let his son have it back!


111189.gif 111189.gif 111189.gif

THIS. JUST THIS. And besides, everyone knows Minato can rape just about every known Uchiha if he wants to cool.gif .

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#278 T XD

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:03 PM

QUOTE (Don-kun @ Feb 7 2013, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
^^
I don't like Sasuke and I don't believe I will ever like his character.


I don't know about you but I see Karin asking Sasuke why he try to kill her then later point out that his teammate really feels something for him so why he try to kill her with no hesitation then ask him if he ever felt something for her.

Don't get me wrong because I can also picture Karin telling Sasuke that she thought his teammate only had feelings for him but when her other teammate showed up she could sense how her heart felt a lot more warmer and at peace is like her feelings are stronger but she is hiding it from him.

That said SK fans need to keep in mind that their pairing could also be used has a tool for SS, Sakura does not know how Karin feels about Sasuke but Karin knows that Sakura loves Sasuke. Even if kishi still wants to pair Sasuke with someone, SK also needs to worry about NH, if NH is still in the picture and in some miraculous way it manage to overcome NS, there is way Kishi will pair Karin with Sasuke and leave Sakura single.

It's very possible that she'll talk with Sasuke about why he wanted to kill her, but there's many ways how Karin will relate between her, Sasuke and Sakura, though, I don't think that she will expand her talk with him other than why he tried to kill her cause that would take a whole chapter or two in a concluded way, which it isn't that much important considering that there are a lot more other things that need to be covered till the end of the manga.

SS is somewhat like SK. I said " somewhat " cause the way Karin deals with Sasuke is different than the way Sakura deals with Sasuke, and same goes for Sasuke, which in that standard, Karin is better than Sakura with Sasuke. But, all in all, both of them were treated badly, and Sasuke didn't care. Now, there's the Uchiha sense, which it also goes toward SK, but it's still needed more than that, which is why we need to see the reunion and furthermore after that.

Agree with you on the NH and SK thing. If magically NH happened, then SK, as it is now, can happen. Though, the writer's consequences are that it will be bad for the manga and for the writing as in story line and the plot.

Edited by T XD, 07 February 2013 - 03:09 PM.


#279 sushi.

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:06 PM

QUOTE (Codus N @ Feb 7 2013, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
111189.gif 111189.gif 111189.gif

THIS. JUST THIS. And besides, everyone knows Minato can rape just about every known Uchiha if he wants to cool.gif .

I've actually always wanted to know who would win in a fight between Minato and Itachi. shamefulcry0js.gif Either way, I think they are very equal in terms of strength.

I wonder why Minato doesn't know who Sasuke is. D: I assumed he was friends with Fugaku, for some reason. He must at least have known Kushina's friend's son.

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#280 ramenanmitsu

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:15 PM

So....probably the Uchiha's start to get insane/consumed with hatred when their strong love has lost their arrow, in other words the object of their love is gone. Sasuke got consumed by hatred once all his family members were killed. That was level 1.
He got consumed by hatred once again when he saw Itachi relive the death of his family members. Possibly level 2.
He got to the point of insanity, when the love for Itachi that was buried inside him surfaced once he learned how much Itachi wanted to protect him. Level 3.
Gone unstoppable at the site of Danzo, which made him reminisce Itachi. Got to level 5!

I really wish Sasuke was just a psychopathic freak.....with some conflicted mental problems. All this "love" doesn't suit a villain such as himself.

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 07 February 2013 - 03:15 PM.

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