814 replies to this topic

[StriderC]

Exactly it wouldn't say "dodge" if she wasn't the one dodging.

We'll just have to wait until the anime comes out. I guarantee you're gonna see Kakashi yanking Sakura out of harms way there because that's what happened. It says "dodge" because she evaded the attack. Doesn't mean she didn't get any assistance from Kakashi at all. I've never seen anyone yell "uwah" while they're consciously dodging something. And where is it stated that Kakashi is limp? Was he limp when he was standing with the group of shinobi? No he wasn't. Sakura wasn't holding him up there either. Why's his arm around Sakura? If she were supposedly healing him, where was this shown and why doesn't it look as though that's what she was doing there? Makes no sense at all...

Haha. Red. You've made me reevaluate what I said. It's possible that you're right. LOL But I don't know. I could see if she bumped him but his arm is around her already. I still don't think she dodged on her own but it really doesn't matter at that much. What matters is, when are we gonna get some NS development, Sakura development, and Sakura panel time.

[Chucky-kun]

Haha. Red. You've made me reevaluate what I said. It's possible that you're right. LOL But I don't know. I could see if she bumped him but his arm is around her already. I still don't think she dodged on her own but it really doesn't matter at that much. What matters is, when are we gonna get some NS development, Sakura development, and Sakura panel time.

double post :/ please edit

[Zatheko]

I'm asking the same question. Some of you think after reading my post that I'm worried about NH becoming canon but no. I know based on the whole story that it all points to NS. Never have I doubted once and I never will. I'm just wondering why Kishi would do this kind of things. I'm kinda disappointed really. I mean he gave NH fans something to hold on to which is completely unnecessary. Wanting to keep fans buying the manga isn't a valid reason for me.



Well its the thought that counts right? If Neji weren't there then Hinata would be the one impaled. And that "family" point of view is kinda biased way to do it no offense. Not that I'm saying this is your opinion but if Sakura were to do what Hinata did, will you look at it as a sister protecting her brother being an NS fan?

If it was sakura it wouldnt be as a sister since its obvious sakura is a parallel of kushina where as hinata is completely different.

Edited by zatheko, 19 December 2012 - 03:09 AM.

[StriderC]

double post :/ please edit

Someone already edited my post.

[James S Cassidy]

Been thinking about it and I want to say that Neji's death, while tragic didn't hit as hard as I expected. Not trying to sounded insensitive, but personally I would feel more if Rock Lee died. I guess it is just personal preference.

So after taking a nap cause I wasn't feeling well. I slept on this chapter and have come to a conclusion. Kishi is terrible at writing heroine's. I know, "we know this." Yeah we did, but we still expect him to write them better. I am going to look at Hinata and Sakura as characters. I don't want to bring more NH/NS argument in here because that is not my intention, but rather look at the way Kishi is terrible at making any girl a heroine. He outright sucks.

*takes off NS goggles* Okay.

Both Hinata and Sakura are strong characters who have their own ability to be the heroine, but both are always falling short of it. NH fans would disagree with me here and say "But Hinata saved Naruto three times, even Naruto said this." That is where I would reply "Since when have you taken Naruto's word seriously? He said he loves Sakura many of times and you deny these claims for him being stupid. So I say to that go away. If you truly listened to Naruto and cared what he had to say you would have paid attention to everything else in his life." I make this claim not as a NS fan, but a Naruto fan.

Now, since this war has started neither Hinata nor Sakura have been given that heroine role. I could argue Sakura saving lives by being a medic would be her being this heroine because you have to wonder how many people she has saved who were on the brink of death. Medics play just as an important part in a war as the soldiers in the frontlines. I count this as her having thee moments of shining, but since these get ignored I guess I can't count them.

Hinata has not been giving heroine moments either in this war. I know people want to think her enhancing Ino's power was a heroish moment and that this chapter is one too, but really she either was just support and not really doing the heavy lifting, fails miserably, or someone else takes the glory of it. As I said, if being a support is what makes Hinata a heroine, then Sakura has been a heroine ten times more than that. Not just to Naruto either.

Every other time Hinata has either failed to live up to be the hero or someone else did what was supposedly her job. Everyone wants to say that she is more of a hero because she supports Naruto. Sakura supports Naruto too yet everyone brushes this off like this was nothing and to be honest, Hinata failing to be the hero when she has a chance to do it is not her having a "shining moment." Especially when it was her teammates that push for it and not just her being the hero on her own merits. I'd say you either count them all or count none of them. If Hinata just supporting Naruto emotionally is her being a heroine, than Sakura is a bigger heroine based on how much she supports him over the entire manga.

With that being said, in truth Kishi has been terrible at giving any female character a heroic form not just Sakura or Hinata. He says he tries, but we know he just is terrible at it. It always ends up being a guy who saves the day or a turn of events that just ends in her filing and nearly getting the one she is trying to save killed.

We shippers want to believe he is going to give Sakura a heroine role or Hinata a chance to be the hero, but I feel we either mistake real heroics deeds as nothing and look at these minor efforts as real deal when really it is just nothing. That's my take on it.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 19 December 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[FoolishYoungling]

Been thinking about it and I want to say that Neji's death, while tragic didn't hit as hard as I expected. Not trying to sounded insensitive, but personally I would feel more if Rock Lee died. I guess it is just personal preference.

So after taking a nap cause I wasn't feeling well. I slept on this chapter and have come to a conclusion. Kishi is terrible at writing heroine's. I know, "we know this." Yeah we did, but we still expect him to write them better. I am going to look at Hinata and Sakura as characters. I don't want to bring more NH/NS argument in here because that is not my intention, but rather look at the way Kishi is terrible at making any girl a heroine. He outright sucks.

*takes off NS goggles* Okay.

Both Hinata and Sakura are strong characters who have their own ability to be the heroine, but both are always falling short of it. NH fans would disagree with me here and say "But Hinata saved Naruto three times, even Naruto said this." That is where I would reply "Since when have you taken Naruto's word seriously? He said he loves Sakura many of times and you deny these claims for him being stupid. So I say to that go away. If you truly listened to Naruto and cared what he had to say you would have paid attention to everything else in his life." I make this claim not as a NS fan, but a Naruto fan.

Now, since this war has started neither Hinata nor Sakura have been given that heroine role. I could argue Sakura saving lives by being a medic would be her being this heroine because you have to wonder how many people she has saved who were on the brink of death. Medics play just as an important part in a war as the soldiers in the frontlines. I count this as her having thee moments of shining, but since these get ignored I guess I can't count them.

Hinata has not been giving heroine moments either in this war. I know people want to think her enhancing Ino's power was a heroish moment and that this chapter is one too, but really she either was just support and not really doing the heavy lifting, fails miserably, or someone else takes the glory of it. As I said, if being a support is what makes Hinata a heroine, then Sakura has been a heroine ten times more than that. Not just to Naruto either.

Every other time Hinata has either failed to live up to be the hero or someone else did what was supposedly her job. Everyone wants to say that she is more of a hero because she supports Naruto. Sakura supports Naruto too yet everyone brushes this off like this was nothing and to be honest, Hinata failing to be the hero when she has a chance to do it is not her having a "shining moment." Especially when it was her teammates that push for it and not just her being the hero on her own merits. I'd say you either count them all or count none of them. If Hinata just supporting Naruto emotionally is her being a heroine, than Sakura is a bigger heroine based on how much she supports him over the entire manga.

With that being said, in truth Kishi has been terrible at giving any female character a heroic form not just Sakura or Hinata. He says he tries, but we know he just is terrible at it. It always ends up being a guy who saves the day or a turn of events that just ends in her filing and nearly getting the one she is trying to save killed.

We shippers want to believe he is going to give Sakura a heroine role or Hinata a chance to be the hero, but I feel we either mistake real heroics deeds as nothing and look at these minor efforts as real deal when really it is just nothing. That's my take on it.

I don't see why he can't get it right. He started off so strong and is now going to ruin everything in the end.

[Chucky-kun]

I don't see why he can't get it right. He started off so strong and is now going to ruin everything in the end.

how are you so sure hes definitely going to ruin everything in the end? He has been a bit sloppy with the heroines but just fingers crossed that he can redeem.

[James S Cassidy]

I don't see why he can't get it right. He started off so strong and is now going to ruin everything in the end.

I think it has to do with the fact of this huge character list. Everything was all good when it came to just focusing on Sakura, Naruto, and Sasuke, and maybe Kakashi, but when he started to wanting to stretch out the other characters more, things got complicated and messy.

He seems like he wants the characters to each have their own well-rounded story albeit some of them simple. He is trying to not leave anyone behind, but this is costing more than it is paying out and it is leaving some character either overwhelmed or underwhelmed. Too late to turn back though so might as well finish what you start and hope for the best.

While I think he can get it right if he tried, there is so much other stuff he wants to cover which is kind of bogging the story down.

He can get it right, but it might be that he is just making poor decisions....or his editors are pressuring him. Could one of many possibilities.

[Slextrem]

We'll just have to wait until the anime comes out. I guarantee you're gonna see Kakashi yanking Sakura out of harms way there because that's what happened. It says "dodge" because she evaded the attack. Doesn't mean she didn't get any assistance from Kakashi at all. I've never seen anyone yell "uwah" while they're consciously dodging something. And where is it stated that Kakashi is limp? Was he limp when he was standing with the group of shinobi? No he wasn't. Sakura wasn't holding him up there either. Why's his arm around Sakura? If she were supposedly healing him, where was this shown and why doesn't it look as though that's what she was doing there? Makes no sense at all...

Strider is right. Take a closer look at the panel. Kakashi's arm is clearly wrapped around her shoulder and he's pulling her towards him. If that's not enough for you, take a look at her legs. She's almost floating in the air with her lower legs at a diagonal. That's an odd way to dodge an attack... I think she was abruptly pulled out of harms way by Kakashi, which is why she said "Uwah!", and lost her footing as he dragged her towards him, which is why her legs look weird. It still says "dodge" because she did dodge the Mokuton, but it wasn't on her own.

[Chucky-kun]

Dat moment when you realise the irony when they say "the hyuuga are the strongest of the leaf" yet the two most powerful shinobi standing before them are also from the leaf. obito and madara lol

[Mik3]

One of the rookie 9konoha 12, w/e you want to call them, dead?



Considering an entire village was resurrected in this series, I will wait for the funeral before I believe it.

Edited by Mik3, 19 December 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[GlucoseGlutton]

Plot twist: When Kishi said, "All your favorite characters will shine" what he actually meant was that they would all die!



(And I agree Kakashi pulled Sakura away not the other way around. Oh the KakaSaku feels !)

[dragonflyx11]

RIP neji, you always have been an always will be one of my favorites.

[kirabook]

I really don't get the Kushina/Hinata/parents situation...

If they want to parallel that to anything, it would be a parallel of Neji being Minato and Hinata being Kushina. Of course Hinata loves Naruto, but comparing her love to Kushina's love is kinda wrong (he's his mother :/) There was nothing new about Hinata in this chapter other than the possibility that she'll wisen up and stomp jumping in front of Naruto.

It's like she wants to die. In the amount of time she stood there with her arms out, she could have just pulled the downed Naruto out of the way.

[neoshadow]

Dat moment when you realise the irony when they say "the hyuuga are the strongest of the leaf" yet the two most powerful shinobi standing before them are also from the leaf. obito and madara lol

Dat moment when you realise the irony when they say "the hyuuga are the strongest of the leaf" yet Hinata is standing there. I kid I kid.

I also find the NaruHina = MinaKushi parallel to be an incredible stretch, it's entire basis is Hinata loves Naruto, there is no returned feelings no moments of absolute trust nothing, that and I guess Hinata and Kushina also have long hair, completely ignoring the fact that when they were introduced Sakura had long hair and Hinata's was short.

I just can't get behind Naruto x Hinata being a parallel to any other romance in the series, it just isn't shared by another it is completely unique. Every other romantic or semi-romantic pairing is either an almost exact replica of Naruto and Sakura's relationship (or I guess chronologically NaruSaku is a replica of what came before) or the characters involved share defining traits that make up Naruto and Sakura's character. Minato x Kushina, Jiraiya x Tsunade, Dan x Tsunade, Yahiko x Konan, Obito x Rin, I guess you could even make the argument to Kakashi x Rin considering how Kakashi's character changed post Obito's "death".

Whereas to my memory NaruHina doesn't have any, if anyone can think of any I would love to know. I suppose Kishi could be making some statement that the type of relationship Naruto and Sakura have never works out for the best so you shouldn't try but that is a terrible message and considering Naruto is if nothing else a story about hope its much easier to believe that NaruSaku will succeed where all the other's failed, notice that all the other NaruSaku parallel's fail due to external circumstances.

As for the chapter I think it's pretty good. It's been kind of funny observing a large portion of the fandoms reaction switch from 2 weeks ago saying that this is the safest war they have ever seen, no one is dying to now in outrage that a fan favorite character is dead. Obviously not everyone is saying that but it's funny to me.

I hope Obito's revival mention is just that a mention or he can only revive one person or something, because pulling the mass revival is OK once, twice just feels lazy and a lack of commitment to address the death of characters and for their sacrifice to mean anything.

I feel Neji is the best option to die, considering Hinata also exists to carry on the Hyuuga and she is a much more important/popular character whose development is at a standstill, and I suspect that will be the reason anyone will die this battle to a) wrap up their own individual stories and bring closure to their character and b) to help spur the development and resolution of someone else.

With that said who else do you think could possibly die? Personally I think Shino and Tenten could, if nothing else just to up the body count because to be truthful they barely count as characters so it wouldn't really achieve anything. Chouji and Sai could due to having quite a bit of spotlight during the war and having their own closure. And Sakura to force Obito's pain on Naruto as many have suggested. Obviously I'm not saying all should die but they're just my thoughts on would be the most likely candidates from Naruto's generation should Kishi decide to kill more than just Neji.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Wow, early chapter. I'm lurking in other forums for a few days, come back to H&E and find the new chapter out with 14 pages of posts to read. Guess I should come everyday now.

My feelings on this chapter are very mixed. As many of you have said, it is easily one of my top love/hate chapters in Naruto. It's not so much that it's terrible but some main points of this were no executed well or likiable.

First of all, Neji's dead!! He's one of my favorite characters! Why, Kishi why???! *end fangirl rage tears, cut to logical self* I had some major problems of this and it's not only because one of my favs is gone. It's so out of nowhere and rushed. I mean, if Kishi intended to kill off Neji, at least have a more proper buildup to it. Not just Neji acting totally badass, something he hasn't done in a while and then being killed off in the SAME chapter he reppeared. I wish Neji could've done more in a few more chapters beforehand. But it wasn't completely terrible. Neji's speech to Naruto was very heartfelt and it held a lot of depth to it. I also loved the callback line to "Because I'm a genuis" with a smile on his face. It really makes everything go full circle, he understands freedom through death, and is no longer a caged bird.

For storyline purposes, I don't think Neji should be back. Not only would it cheapen his sacrifice (Which already slightly happened due to the rushness of the death scene itself), but it won't truly allow Naruto to learn a lesson. He can't forget he shouldn't throw his life away so easily and I feel if he comes back, the weight wouldn't completely impact him. Hate to say it but sometimes permanent loss is neccessary. With Jiraiya it was and in this instance, it is again.

Next, big shocker ... Hinata. I'm already very tired of the focus she's getting lately. It's extremely annoying! Though I guess, I can sorta understand because the focus was the Hyuuga. Given Hinata's amazing track record, I won't be completely surprised if she doesn't learn to focus on others besides Naruto. I hope she shows more of a resolve next chapter about taking the war seriously through the death of her cousin (Sidebar: NejiHina is killed! My Hinata OTP destroyed! ) and while that will be a stepping stone in getting over Naruto, she'll need more time to complete it. Naruto is her obsession and you can't get over obsessions or addictions in the course of one day.

And with Hinata comes NaruHina. *sigh* I clearly see the NaruHina "moment" in this chapter. It's like being shoving down our throats so much lately to the point of "Really, Kishi? Aren't you being a bit ridiculous now?" It's not like my faith in NaruSaku is gone; I know for a fact that NaruHina teases is a red herring to divert the attention from NaruSaku. That part is not in question but I see Kishi is pushing it a bit too much. Over Neji's death, NH might have connecting moment which will "increase" it's chances. In the beginning of Neji's death words, when he said "Hinata-sama is willing to die for you", I thought he was going a shipping direction. But then he included himself, so it's not really romantic NH foreshadowing (Hinata commiting a Kamikaze suicide attempt again for Naruto's sake? Yes.) Nonetheless, it's not impossible to count it as NH "proof". Kishi's trolling those poor NH fans so hard, I almost feel sorry for them. The NaruHiners are having a friggin' party right now and screaming at the top of their lungs on YT and every other website "NaruHina is CANON! Neji ensures it!". Kishi, tsk, tsk ... you will create the biggest sh*tstorm in anime history on the internet. You're toying with their poor shipper hearts too much, y'know.

I'm slowly softening up to Madara's character little by little every chapter. At least he has a personality: calm and collected but unbelievably arrogant yet sassy. I don't usually like villains but Madara's such a boss it's hard not to like him at least a little. And I also liked how Obito was showing attitude towards him. At least he's not completely his puppet and still has his own agenda (Crazy or not). I'm anticipating his betrayal. God will that be epic. Madara vs. Obito!

Welp, looks like I'm not watching Sawyer7mage's Naruto chapter review again this week. Given his NH status, I have no desire to see him say something "NaruHina" related, even if he is half joking. Have an even less desire to read the 100 thousand comments about NaruHina happening for sure because of one line Neji said. This is the second time I've had to do this in three weeks time alone. That is just ridiculous. For the love of all this is good, Kishi ... lay off the NaruHina teases!

Edited by xxRomanceGirlxx, 19 December 2012 - 07:34 AM.

[Don-kun]

Is Kishi really trolling the NH fandom?
Neji just die and Kishi use the chance to have Neji make a comment about his cousin feelings for Naruto in a disguise way, he never said hinata me and all the others, he said his ex-self and Hinata, meaning that Naruto should notice Hinata more, who cares about the blond feelings according to Kiba and Neji he should pay more attention to Hinata.

So Honestly It doesn't look that way to me, until Naruto and Sakura get the spotlight again, he ask her to remember her friends or Hinata notice that she is been way to obsessive with Naruto and because of that she completely ignore the others allowing Neji die I will say that NH right now has way more chances than NaruSaku, not because it has more build up or Naruto is starting to looking at Hinata in a different way, it's because Kishi is forcing NH on the readers.
I was OK with the focus shared with all the Rookies, but the focus is on Team 10 and Hinata.
In the end, if there isn't anything for Hinata to reflect on, then NH will be force down her throat rather we want to acknowledge it or keep ignoring it is up to us.

[Chucky-kun]

First of all, Neji's dead!! He's one of my favorite characters! Why, Kishi why???! *end fangirl rage tears, cut to logical self* I had some major problems of this and it's not only because one of my favs is gone. It's so out of nowhere and rushed. I mean, if Kishi intended to kill off Neji, at least have a more proper buildup to it. Not just Neji acting totally badass, something he hasn't done in a while and then being killed off in the SAME chapter he reppeared. I wish Neji could've done more in a few more chapters beforehand. But it wasn't completely terrible. Neji's speech to Naruto was very heartfelt and it held a lot of depth to it. I also loved the callback line to "Because I'm a genuis" with a smile on his face. It really makes everything go full circle, he understands freedom through death, and is no longer a caged bird.

Well, what could neji have done if he were given more chapters?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Is Kishi really trolling the NH fandom?
Neji just die and Kishi use the chance to have Neji make a comment about his cousin feelings for Naruto in a disguise way, he never said hinata me and all the others, he said his ex-self and Hinata, meaning that Naruto should notice Hinata more, who cares about the blond feelings according to Kiba and Neji he should pay more attention to Hinata.

So Honestly It doesn't look that way to me, until Naruto and Sakura get the spotlight again, he ask her to remember her friends or Hinata notice that she is been way to obsessive with Naruto and because of that she completely ignore the others allowing Neji die I will say that NH right now has way more chances than NaruSaku, not because it has more build up or Naruto is starting to looking at Hinata in a different way, it's because Kishi is forcing NH on the readers.
I was OK with the focus shared with all the Rookies, but the focus is on Team 10 and Hinata.
In the end, if there isn't anything for Hinata to reflect on, then NH will be force down her throat rather we want to acknowledge it or keep ignoring it is up to us.

How about No.

He never said that he should pay more attention to hinata, he said that his life is not just himself he just reinforce what itachi told to Naruto, everyone is willing to die for him not just hinata, and he should be more cautious about, like he did with rasenshurikens he throw some in an attempt to resolve everything when he could just throw one and save chakra if one of his friends is in danger.

In this chapter there was no NH the next one will be the last chapter that we will got hinata, so i'm expecting no NH too, it will be her and Neji, and Naruto will respond to Obito's taunt.
Again no naruto feelings for hinata.
Naruto is not protecting his friends he's just trying to resolve everything by himself.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 19 December 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[PhenixElite]

Is Kishi really trolling the NH fandom?
Neji just die and Kishi use the chance to have Neji make a comment about his cousin feelings for Naruto in a disguise way, he never said hinata me and all the others, he said his ex-self and Hinata, meaning that Naruto should notice Hinata more, who cares about the blond feelings according to Kiba and Neji he should pay more attention to Hinata.

So Honestly It doesn't look that way to me, until Naruto and Sakura get the spotlight again, he ask her to remember her friends or Hinata notice that she is been way to obsessive with Naruto and because of that she completely ignore the others allowing Neji die I will say that NH right now has way more chances than NaruSaku, not because it has more build up or Naruto is starting to looking at Hinata in a different way, it's because Kishi is forcing NH on the readers.
I was OK with the focus shared with all the Rookies, but the focus is on Team 10 and Hinata.
In the end, if there isn't anything for Hinata to reflect on, then NH will be force down her throat rather we want to acknowledge it or keep ignoring it is up to us.

Ahh! Guys youre right, we should just forget all the hints, parrallels and development on NS, also the typical main character x tsundere pairings we always have in shonen story, because neji told naruto that she would die for naruto. I mean its not like we already knew this for 200 chapters, so its totally new.

This was such a big NH moment, now NH is much more likely then NS. I think im a NH shipper now.
Didnt you all see those romantic monents between naruto and hinata? /happy sarcasm

Edited by PhenixElite, 19 December 2012 - 11:16 AM.