354 replies to this topic

[FoolishYoungling]

Oh thank you, I appreciate the notion of that thought, but really, I've adapted that mentally from my best female friend from high school, who also reads Naruto, who ironically was neutral towards me, then liked me, then hated me, and then we manage to end the high school era as good friends. She seems to be more like Sakura than me then.

But, enough of that, so anything else that hasn't been talked about yet in this chapter that could be talked about?

NaruGara moment I guess, because they now make a great team!

[CloudMountainJuror]

NaruGara moment I guess, because they now make a great team!

Indeed they do... Naruto and Sakura teamwork along with Naruto and Gaara teamwork = awesome

[FoolishYoungling]

Indeed they do... Naruto and Sakura teamwork along with Naruto and Gaara teamwork = awesome

Naruto and Sasuke did actually make a great team, I would even say probably the best. That is why I want to see them fight together once more. Sure Naruto and Sakura is going to make us all scream happidly about our pairing being more canon every day and then Naruto with Garaa helps us see how great Naruto can change a person from wanting to kill everyone into something more like a caring, supportive ally, but when it actually comes down to Naruto- Rasangan! and Sasuke- Chidori! there is nothing better than that! So hopefully we can see them fight together again someday, and Sakura closer to Naruto's side than Sasuke's side!

[harry4e]

The naruto clone that saved sakura was real clone naruto (of course ) but the one with hinata is getting really suspisious. One thing that may make me believe that the naruto clone is not a zetsu is the the Nine-tailed fox mode. How could zetsu imitate that? What really surprised me is that Zetsu came back for sakura. He could of went for shizune or any other of the high maitnence medic ninjas, but he went to kill sakura.... Is that kishi's way of showing us how much of a high level shinobi
she really is? P.S thanks fliss!

The reason that Sakura is being targeted has been explained before, with the Zetsu clone imitating Neji, if they get rid of the Medic nins, there is no one left to patch them up and return them to the war effort, basically crippling the allied forces, Sakura and Shizune are probably the two of the most important people in the war effort after the elite Jounin and Kage's bacause without them the Cannon Fodder can't be revived to sent back to fight against the other Canon Fodder.

Interesting Theory about the Zetsu clone, but doesn't Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra turn the Zutsu's into Overgrown plants? So the Zetsu's that absorb the Chakra are defeated, so I don't see how they could imitate Naruto Chakra as it would over stimulate them and they'd suffering a severe case of morning wood.

Now I have to wonder if we'll ever see the Mizukage and the Black Zetsu battle, it's been ages since that battle started.

Edit: Just to clarify the colour page depicted Sasuke as a Tengu right? (Same as the one his Sasunno depicts) But which charactor is Naruto meant to be?

Edited by harry4e, 07 October 2011 - 01:29 AM.

[FoolishYoungling]

Yes all of this is good, but I just have caught a theory in my head. What if Zabuto's ultimate weapon he keeps saying he hasn't done yet is the guy in the casket that Zabuto showed Madara but didn't show us. One thing for certain is that whatever is in that casket is going to change this war completly, but so might this ultimate weapon... dun dun dun!

So go ahead and agree or disagree with me, please serve me a great discreption of why you agree or disagree with me though.

[Super Boom]

Yes all of this is good, but I just have caught a theory in my head. What if Zabuto's ultimate weapon he keeps saying he hasn't done yet is the guy in the casket that Zabuto showed Madara but didn't show us. One thing for certain is that whatever is in that casket is going to change this war completly, but so might this ultimate weapon... dun dun dun!

So go ahead and agree or disagree with me, please serve me a great discreption of why you agree or disagree with me though.

Who's Zabuto? Did Kabuto combine with Zabuza instead of Orochimaru?
Anyway, I think there's a good chance whatever Kabuto/Muu summoned could be the same thing he pulled out to taunt Madara a while back, but it could also just be another epic ninja he was saving for later. I'm looking forward to finding out next chapter.

Back to the Naruto=Zetsu theory, I guess White Zetsu's reaction to Naruto's Chakra Mode does poke some holes in it. But then again, we don't know much about how that whole thing works, so Kishi could easily just use a loophole to explain how this Zetsu is using the Kyuubi's chakra, or just how it can simulate Naruto's Chakra Mode extremely well. So again, I'm keeping an open mind as far as that theory goes, but the seemingly absent motive on Zetsu's part makes me a little skeptical.

Also, random question about the end of the chapter. Is it safe to assume that the three ninja whose weapons Naruto blocked were all Zetsu clones? They don't look like Edo zombies, but then again I'm not sure if Kabuto summoned any fodder zombies, along with the legendary ones.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 07 October 2011 - 01:36 AM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Who's Zabuto? Did Kabuto combine with Zabuza instead of Orochimaru?
Anyway, I think there's a good chance whatever Kabuto/Muu summoned could be the same thing he pulled out to taunt Madara a while back, but it could also just be another epic ninja he was saving for later. I'm looking forward to finding out next chapter.

Back to the Naruto=Zetsu theory, I guess White Zetsu's reaction to Naruto's Chakra Mode does poke some holes in it. But then again, we don't know much about how that whole thing works, so Kishi could easily just use a loophole to explain how this Zetsu is using the Kyuubi's chakra, or just how it can simulate Naruto's Chakra Mode extremely well. So again, I'm keeping an open mind as far as that theory goes, but the seemingly absent motive on Zetsu's part makes me a little skeptical.

It's been explained that without the Kyuubi's malevolent Will, the Pure chakra emanating from Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra Mode has some life-giving properties, hence the Zetsu clones sprouting wood.

That's what she said.

@harry Sasuke is a Tengu. Naruto could be depicted as some kind of priest or something similar.

Edited by shadow_Uzumaki, 07 October 2011 - 01:51 AM.

[FoolishYoungling]

Who's Zabuto? Did Kabuto combine with Zabuza instead of Orochimaru?
Anyway, I think there's a good chance whatever Kabuto/Muu summoned could be the same thing he pulled out to taunt Madara a while back, but it could also just be another epic ninja he was saving for later. I'm looking forward to finding out next chapter.

Back to the Naruto=Zetsu theory, I guess White Zetsu's reaction to Naruto's Chakra Mode does poke some holes in it. But then again, we don't know much about how that whole thing works, so Kishi could easily just use a loophole to explain how this Zetsu is using the Kyuubi's chakra, or just how it can simulate Naruto's Chakra Mode extremely well. So again, I'm keeping an open mind as far as that theory goes, but the seemingly absent motive on Zetsu's part makes me a little skeptical.

Also, random question about the end of the chapter. Is it safe to assume that the three ninja whose weapons Naruto blocked were all Zetsu clones? They don't look like Edo zombies, but then again I'm not sure if Kabuto summoned any fodder zombies, along with the legendary ones.

Don't tell me I forgot his name, ughh... sorry about that! Also, yes it is possible in a way that they were all clones, then again everyone has different opinions.

Edited by NaruSaku1, 07 October 2011 - 02:00 AM.

[Super Boom]

It's been explained that without the Kyuubi's malevolent Will, the Pure chakra emanating from Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra Mode has some life-giving properties, hence the Zetsu clones sprouting wood.

I don't remember the bolded part of your statement ever being officially mentioned, but I'm not discounting it either, since there's so many chapters to go through to prove/disprove it.
From what we've seen so far though, we know that (a.) the Yang chakra that the Kyuubi possesses affects the Mokuton, and (b.) the White Zetsu clones appear to be created from the First Hokage's cells. So although the obvious conclusion is that Naruto's Chakra mode has a universal effect on all the Zetsu clones, Kishi still hasn't fully elaborated on it. Basically, he still has enough wiggle room to explain how this clone is immune to the Kyuubi's chakra, if it turns out that he actually is a Zetsu clone (though I'm sure how likely that is).

Edited by Boom...Winning, 07 October 2011 - 02:42 AM.

[Phantom_999]

First off, HOLY CRAP I didn't expect such a huge response, but I'm glad you provided one. We can now get to the main points much faster.
Now on to replying (which I will do so by numbering):

1. You obviously haven't seen all of my thoughts on certain chapters, then. I loved the Gaara one just last week because it was an actual good fight and had tension in it. If I come across as kittening, then so be it.

2. I suppose I should have made this much clearer beforehand: my main problem isn't with the Zetsu clones. It's with Naruto pwning every single Edo Tensei he's faced so far with relatively little difficulty. This chapter just radiated the vibe of "more of Naruto owning legendary Edo Tensei ninja to come" to me, and I'm not the only one.

3. Oh boy, the "being realistic in a fictional world" argument. I'll sum it up like this: some things are universal. When I talk about "realistic", I don't mean "OMG NINJAS AREN'T EVERYWHERE ON EARTH! THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS JUTSUS! THEY DON'T HAVE CELL PHONES!" and etc. I mean more along the lines of thought processes and some other things. For example, many of these Edo Tenseis resurrected are, as formerly specified, legendary ninja, yet they're being taken down with such unbelievable ease. If they're so easy to defeat, why would they be given the titles "legendary" and etc.? That's the kind of realism I'm referring to. In a sense, it's more common sense.

4. I don't know about others, but Naruto being in the picture was not a major concern for me. Did I want him back somewhat? Yes. I had no idea he'd be as powerful (I'll say that instead of the other word that aggravates you so much) as he is right now, though. Right now, it's just outrageous.

5. I don't mind waiting for him to get to Sasuke or Madara, but excuse me for not really taking the "real enemy" line seriously. Legendary ninja aren't real enough for ya?
Also, I was fine with Naruto in the kyuubi cloak at first. It was cool to see all of those new abilities...for the first chapter or two. By now, it's just getting really repetitive. By the way, when did it take him 5 chapters to beat one Edo Tensei? I don't remember such a thing.

6. No, I won't complain that the battles are too long when he fights them, because they're expected to be long battles...but so are these fights. These fights against the Edo Tenseis are also expected to be long because...well... do I have to say it again? They're legendary ninja that are now immortal until sealed up.

7. I sure as hell wouldn't complain if Naruto was "getting his ass beat" (a.k.a. having a hard time) just because he's the hero. Who says heroes HAVE to win? I never believed such a thing.

8. Who said that the Alliance was invincible? I know some are dying. Main characters aren't...and you're claiming that they shouldn't die just because people would get pissed off? I'm pretty sure it'd make up for them being pissed by not being so biased towards the main characters.

9. I want the good guys to lose...?... where exactly did that come from? I want them to win, naturally. I care about Naruto and the other characters, so I do want them to succeed. However, it's just seeming too easy so far.

10. I'm reading the manga because the good parts of it highly outweigh the bad in my opinion. When I enjoy it, most of the time, I tend to really enjoy it. I really like the characters and how they've grown over time, I love the universe that Kishi has made, and I want to know how the story turns out. Simple as that. That being said, it of course is not a perfect manga/anime (it clearly isn't on the anime part). Is it good? Yes. Is it the best manga/anime I've seen? No, but I enjoy it enough to want to see what happens next and to keep reading. There are low points in the story, needless to say. For all I know, Kishi might take what he's given us and turn it into something greater than I could possibly imagine. I don't doubt it. When I post my thoughts though, they are on how the chapter connects to the story thus far. Kishi could turn his all around and pull a mind-blowing story and ending out of this, but I just can't judge what hasn't happened yet.

If you really think that I don't enjoy any of the chapters, then you are wrong. Again, I really liked the last Gaara chapter. The chapters with Darui vs. Ginkaku and Kinkaku blew me away also (even though it was in few chapters, it had a very unique style to how it was fought).

It's kind of disappointing that I apparently irritate you so much; I remember enjoying our past conversations a lot and was actually thinking of saying hey some time soon. It seems like that's no longer an option though, because my "disliking every chapter" behaviour annoys you to no end. I had no idea that such contempt for me was building up over time.

And I will say it again: I do not hate the concept of good guys winning. I personally just don't like how that concept has been handled in many of the recent chapters is all. If you truly don't think that I enjoy any chapters, then I will be glad to personally let you know when a new chapter that I enjoy comes out.


I guess I am the cynical type, but don't be under the illusion that I don't enjoy any of the Naruto series.

And yeah, hell, he deserves that high five for making such a thorough reply I was shocked.

Well I agree with you on some stuff like the Edo Tensei scenario. I mean I literally facepalmed when Sasori was defeated in two chapters and he was a freaking member Akatsuki for crying out! and yeah there ARE some fights I wish that could at least show more of a struggle but then that WOULD slow the process too slowly wouldn't it. A for that Naruto being overpowered complaint I personally find it refreshing You almost NEVER see a main character win with ease that much and I agree with cassidy that I'm SICK of the main character always losing an important fight then MIRACLE WIN for some cheesy sentimental reason. You hate that too don't you? So Naruto being this buffed up shouldn't be a problem, and to be honest I think that third Raikage with SUPERMAN endurance was B***S***!!! because NO WAY should any human be able to take a Rasenshuriken and live because it destroys their cells! I wouldn't mind if it was some supernatural monster with millisecond fast cellular regeneration or indestructible molecular make up but it was a PERSON! Lastly I know saying "Naruto isn't the greatest" manga is your opinion and I respect that but I DO think Naruto is the best manga along with FullMetal Alchemist. My point is though that "what's the best and worst" is subjective to peoples' views.

Edited by Phantom_999, 07 October 2011 - 03:36 AM.

[CloudMountainJuror]

Well I agree with you on some stuff like the Edo Tensei scenario. I mean I literally facepalmed when Sasori was defeated in two chapters and he was a freaking member Akatsuki for crying out! and yeah there ARE some fights I wish that could at least show more of a struggle but then that WOULD slow the process too slowly wouldn't it. A for that Naruto being overpowered complaint I personally find it refreshing You almost NEVER see a main character win with ease that much and I agree with cassidy that I'm SICK of the main character always losing an important fight then MIRACLE WIN for some cheesy sentimental reason. You hate that too don't you? So Naruto being this buffed up shouldn't be a problem, and to be honest I think that third Raikage with SUPERMAN endurance was B***S***!!! because NO WAY should any human be able to take a Rasenshuriken and live because it destroys their cells! I wouldn't mind if it was some supernatural monster with millisecond fast cellular regeneration or indestructible molecular make up but it was a PERSON! Lastly I know saying "Naruto isn't the greatest" manga is your opinion and I respect that but I DO think Naruto is the best manga along with FullMetal Alchemist. My point is though that "what's the best and worst" is subjective to peoples' views.

It shouldn't be what you described (last second win for some cheesey sentimental reason) because yes, I agree, it is also irritating that way. However, again, he shouldn't win with as much ease as he has been in my opinion. It may be refreshing, but it certainly also is kinda boring.
And you're disappointed that Kishi gave Naruto a much needed challenge after his winning streak? Or are you just disappointed with how he handled it?
Also...ironic that you should mention FMA, considering that is the main manga that came to my mind when thinking of manga better than Naruto VERY ironic.
I wouldn't say what's "best and worst" is based on preference; I would say that what is a favorite manga or etc. is based on preference while quality is actually measured. That's my point of view on things, anyways.

Edited by zacrathedemon5, 07 October 2011 - 03:49 AM.

[Phantom_999]

It shouldn't be what you described (last second win for some cheesey sentimental reason) because yes, I agree, it is also irritating that way. However, again, he shouldn't win with as much ease as he has been in my opinion. It may be refreshing, but it certainly also is kinda boring.
And you're disappointed that Kishi gave Naruto a much needed challenge after his winning streak? Or are you just disappointed with how he handled it?
Also...ironic that you should mention FMA, considering that is the main manga that came to my mind when thinking of manga better than Naruto VERY ironic.
I wouldn't say what's "best and worst" is based on preference; I would say that what is a favorite manga or etc. is based on preference while quality is actually measured. That's my point of view on things, anyways.

NOPE I DO want to see Naruto challenged just as much as you do and YES I want to see more interesting struggles with the fight scenes, I meant that I didn't like that The former Raikage took a Rasenshuriken and not only survived but also didn't take any visible damage like some INDESTRUCTIBLE WALL. If he dodged or outsmarted Naruto and stopped him before he launched would be preferable to me not : HEY EVERYBODY, LOOK AT ME, I'M THE SUPERMAN OF THE NARUTO UNIVERSE!!!!!!! NOTHING CAN KILL OR HURT ME SO I'll JUST STAND STILL AND LET ALL ATTACKS BOUNCE OFF MY CHEST!!!!!!

Edited by Phantom_999, 07 October 2011 - 08:15 PM.

[FoolishYoungling]

NOPE I DO want to see Naruto challenged just as much as you do and YES I want to see more interesting struggles with the fight scenes, I meant that I didn't like that The former Raikage took a Rasenshuriken and not only survived but also didn't take any visible damage like some INDESTRUCTIBLE WALL. If he dodged or outsmarted Naruto and stopped him before he launched would be preferable to me not : HEY EVERYBODY, LOOK AT ME, I'M THE SUPERMAN OF THE NARUTO UNIVERSE!!!!!!! NOTHING CAN KILL OR HURT ME SO I'll JUST STAND STILL AND LET ALL ATTACKS BOUNCE OFF MY CHEST!!!!!!

Every superman still has a weakness!

For this wanna-be superman I think it was that scar or whatever...

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Well, for one thing, this dude is a zombie. The Rasenshuriken is effective because it slices at an atomic level. However, it's no good if the body it hits has the ability to regenerate quickly. It helps to say that "Hey, this guy has Wolverine levels of healing....And is dead. So this guy could probably shrug off almost everything."

[Phantom_999]

Well, for one thing, this dude is a zombie. The Rasenshuriken is effective because it slices at an atomic level. However, it's no good if the body it hits has the ability to regenerate quickly. It helps to say that "Hey, this guy has Wolverine levels of healing....And is dead. So this guy could probably shrug off almost everything."

But He COULDN'T regenerate just diamond hard cells APPARENTLY

Every superman still has a weakness!

For this wanna-be superman I think it was that scar or whatever...

by HIS OWN ATTACK? a bit lame okay moving on

Edited by Phantom_999, 07 October 2011 - 10:59 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

*shrug* He's still human.


I dunno why we're grumbling about this anyway. I just shrug and move on. There's still gonna be fights. Some of them will be lame, or features lame concepts, others will be awesome. It's still a universe populated by a man who can create a moon via ninja techniques and a 60something year old woman who can punch you halfway across the country. I don't really give a f_ that this guy can handle a RasenShuriken to the face. I thought it was a great fight and anyone who's son includes the Badass Motherf_ers that are Mr. "Dynamic Exit" Ei/A and Killer Bee has to be even more badass himself.

[FoolishYoungling]

Hmmm... Sorry to bring up this topic again but something has been troubling me for the past few hours.
If it is true that Naruto's Kyubi mode reacts to zetsu's cells and causes him to sprout trees, then when the clone naruto punched that zetsu attacking hinata how come that zetsu did not sprout trees? On the last page of that chapter, we see naruto pointing up and sakura possibly going with him , but naruto is standing on the white zetsu's backs and they are sprouting trees right? So if it is the real clone naruto that saved hinata then how come the Kyubi mode did not react to the zetsu?Sorry If I make no sense....

Good point I think... we need a bigger expert than me for this task!

[Phantom_999]

Well, for one thing, this dude is a zombie. The Rasenshuriken is effective because it slices at an atomic level. However, it's no good if the body it hits has the ability to regenerate quickly. It helps to say that "Hey, this guy has Wolverine levels of healing....And is dead. So this guy could probably shrug off almost everything."

*shrug* He's still human.


I dunno why we're grumbling about this anyway. I just shrug and move on. There's still gonna be fights. Some of them will be lame, or features lame concepts, others will be awesome. It's still a universe populated by a man who can create a moon via ninja techniques and a 60something year old woman who can punch you halfway across the country. I don't really give a f_ that this guy can handle a RasenShuriken to the face. I thought it was a great fight and anyone who's son includes the Badass Motherf_ers that are Mr. "Dynamic Exit" Ei/A and Killer Bee has to be even more badass himself.

SO? THEY can't live through a Rasenshuriken to the face. And WE"RE not grumbling about it, I AM. anyways I actually SAW the Zetsus Naruto KO'd in front of Sakura and Shizune turn into trees don't know about the rest

Edited by Phantom_999, 08 October 2011 - 05:57 AM.

[Darth Krypt]

Hmmm... Sorry to bring up this topic again but something has been troubling me for the past few hours.
If it is true that Naruto's Kyubi mode reacts to zetsu's cells and causes him to sprout trees, then when the clone naruto punched that zetsu attacking hinata how come that zetsu did not sprout trees? On the last page of that chapter, we see naruto pointing up and sakura possibly going with him , but naruto is standing on the white zetsu's backs and they are sprouting trees right? So if it is the real clone naruto that saved hinata then how come the Kyubi mode did not react to the zetsu?Sorry If I make no sense....

Yup. If we don't see the zetsus sprouting trees next chapter than either they're not zetsus or that Naruto is fake. But a counter point would be, if the zetsu can copy its chakra, wouldn't it be sprouting trees instantly? Hmm this is confusing. We have to see the next chapter to confirm.

[ciardha]

and a 60something year old woman who can punch you halfway across the country.

50 something Tsunade is currently 54 in the manga. (She'll be 55 when the storyline gets to late summer. August 2nd is supposed to be her birthday. Currently it's sometime in spring in the storyline)