515 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

All right, this thread and chapter have drawn another NaruSaku lurker out of the woodwork.

My take on 540: Sakura had a crush on Sasuke, a suki love that has remained unrequited for 540 chapters. She is not proud of the way she acted and the choices she made when she was a silly child, and having an adult suitor (albeit a not-very-serious one) who thinks so highly of her saying that anyone she has loved must be a great guy is the height of irony. Sasuke is a lot of things, but he is not and never will be "a great guy." To use a TV trope, he's passed the Moral Event Horizon already.

Sakura can't disagree with cast-suitor to his face, because it's not a discussion you have with one of your patients, so she just goes "Ha..." a noncommittal way of agreeing without actually saying you agree in Japanese.

This is not a NaruSaku moment. Nor is it a SasuSaku moment. It is a Sakura moment, one in which her character develops just a bit more.

Hey there — my thoughts exactly. This is a Sakura moment. Not a shipping moment. This is an insight into how she sees herself. The story is wrapped around the two boys, so it's easy to want to view Sakura from that perspective, but this moment is really about her. (And as for Hinata, she's just a cheerleader here. Nothing more.) Excellent tvtropes reference — that site is a blackhole of distractability!

Oh, and welcome, btw!

I'd also like to point out something interesting I've noticed throughout the manga. Everytime we see SS and NH take a step forward, NS takes ten steps forward shortly afterwards.

I think in any type of good story, or manga, it's important to "read between the lines" to get a clearer picture. Because while you know what's happening on the surface, you have to work a bit harder to figure out what's going on under the surface. Any basic literature class will teach you that- it's no different for Naruto.

Ok I just wanted to point out to you guys a marketing perspective. The number one rule for a marketer is to get the customer emotionally involved. Hence kishi's trolls=emotionally involved= customers keep coming back. This is my reasoning he knows people ship for the big three so he has to throw bones to keep them coming back for more. This is why Hinata shows up out of no where.

Think about it this way, if NS were resolved the SS and NH fan pairings would be calling blasphemy just like we were earlier. And they may abandon the Manga meaning lost revenue. Just look at this thread, when a writer can make a reader feel emotion they are doing their job.

This is why NS almost always springs forward 10 steps when NH or SS get support and it almost always does it 5 to 10 chapters after the "abandon ship" chapter happens.

In the end a lot of the story is just suspenseful story telling, but looking at clues lead to a NS ending. Kishi just has to keep stuff going back and forth just so he doesn't lose anyone until the end.

qft. Naruto, like most serialized literature, is formulaic. The pairings won't be resolved until the end. And until then, there will be lots more ups and downs to keep all the shippers on the hook. It's good writing, and it's good business.

If you are missing this, then I only have one thing to say: Stop reading the manga through a straw. Seriously. There is a bigger picture here that you are not seeing.

It is not about resolving a pairing in a single frame, or even in a single chapter. There is a build-up, climax and unraveling. That fact the Kishi is still rippling the waters with pairing stuff means that the story is still fully in it's build-up. Yay for us. Because once the pairing is resolved, the manga is over. (If Naruto accomplishes his goals, gets his love and Hokage, before he defeats/reforms Sasuke, then all that's left is for Naruto to chase Sasuke. And at that point everybody jumps ship.)

Kishi has certainly thrown out a solid piece of storytelling, and is masterfully jerking it along till the end. As readers, we don't always have to take the bait. Ten years of consistent build-up should give you some assurances. Naruto is obviously heading toward the battlefield — the chances are high that in the next 5-10 chapters there will be some NS interaction. So now we have to see if Kishi is true to his formula of a setback in the pairing followed by a greater gain.

edit: It's also a little disappointing to see the lack of faith in Sakura's character. (Especially from the NS camp.) She's worked harder than any of them, not having had the benefit of status or extraordinary power, and she has carried the weight and guilt of her decisions since back in her genin days. It would be shallow and terribly ooc of her NOT to reflect on the LoverNin's statement with a little bit of disappointment in herself. She says before the confession, "I'm always making mistakes." She doesn't have a flimsy, throw-away persona — she's the most realistic one amidst all these overblown story-book characters. And it's nice to see Kishimoto finally illustrating her as strong as she's had to be to get this far in the story. Don't undermine her fight scene by throwing away her whole personality on a childhood crush. The girl's come a lot farther than that.

Edited by tricksie, 26 May 2011 - 02:04 PM.

[Codus N]

Again its marketing. Kishi Might not know but his editors and publishers would. If it ultimately doesnt screw with the end pairing that kishi wants then they can dilly dally here in there to increase sales. Fans get what fans want that simple, maybe not all of them 100% of the time but there is a happy fan out there at certain points in the story one way or another.

There's one problem with that. Kishi's editors and publishers don't give a jack about the western audience. At least that what I can gather from reading Bakuman.

Hey there — my thoughts exactly. This is a Sakura moment. Not a shipping moment. This is an insight into how she sees herself. The story is wrapped around the two boys, so it's easy to want to view Sakura from that perspective, but this moment is really about her. (And as for Hinata, she's just a cheerleader here. Nothing more.) Excellent tvtropes reference — that site is a blackhole of distractability!


qft. Naruto, like most serialized literature, is formulaic. The pairings won't be resolved until the end. And until then, there will be lots more ups and downs to keep all the shippers on the hook. It's good writing, and it's good business.

If you are missing this, then I only have one thing to say: Stop reading the manga through a straw. Seriously. There is a bigger picture here that you are not seeing.

It is not about resolving a pairing in a single frame, or even in a single chapter. There is a build-up, climax and unraveling. That fact the Kishi is still rippling the waters with pairing stuff means that the story is still fully in it's build-up. Yay for us. Because once the pairing is resolved, the manga is over. (If Naruto accomplishes his goals, gets his love and Hokage, before he defeats/reforms Sasuke, then all that's left is for Naruto to chase Sasuke. And at that point everybody jumps ship.)

Kishi has certainly thrown out a solid piece of storytelling, and is masterfully jerking it along till the end. As readers, we don't always have to take the bait. Ten years of consistent build-up should give you some assurances. Naruto is obviously heading toward the battlefield — the chances are high that in the next 5-10 chapters there will be some NS interaction. So now we have to see if Kishi is true to his formula of a setback in the pairing followed by a greater gain.

The only problem is, it seems Kishi is being hypocritical in his writing. If he was really being honest, about Sakura's confession being genuine, then why did this chapter turn out like this?? it seems to be very bad writing on Kishi's part to me.

And if it is an insight to herself, then the Sasuke panel should've had her remembering the time in Iron country. All in all, it just seems hypocritical to me, IMO.

[RedDelicious]

O.O My God, what did I say?
...
I simply debated my thoughts and speculations on all of this.

I am going to respond to this, which may give you a better idea where some of the responses are coming from.
(Doing my best to avoid any kind of personal attack.)

Some things just have to be taken at face-value...

This is a very reasonable statement, if you had left it that way. But look at what else you added:
- "you all have to face that facts that Sakura is MADLY in love with Sasuke"
- "you needa suck it up and face the facts"
- "stop being in denial"

Do you see the problem? Besides being very confrontational in your language, you changed "sometimes"
taking things at face value, to an ironclad "fact", without contributing an argument why your opinion has
become fact.

Taking that image at face value seems to fly in the face of Sakura's character development. In which case,
it is reasonable to try to find something which is consistent with the story that explains the image.
These hypotheses are posted, and we get the pleasure of arguing one way or the other, and seeing in later
chapters who was right. Saying that "face value" is fact, at this time, is premature.

Sometimes things should be taken at face value. For example, like when Sakura stated she loves Naruto,
and no longer has a crush on Sasuke the criminal. But considering an important idea of the manga is
being "able to read what's underneath the underneath", it is not overanalyzing to explore what else might be going on.

Let me also point out that "face value" tells us that Sakura is miserable about her feelings about Sasuke,
not what those feelings are (love, ex-love, and/or loyalty to Team 7 bond). When you use this image to say
that "Sakura is MADLY in love with Sasuke", you are as guilty as any of us in overanalyzing the image and
making a conjecture beyond face value.

Edited by RedDelicious, 26 May 2011 - 02:31 PM.

[lav]

Hey there — my thoughts exactly. This is a Sakura moment. Not a shipping moment. This is an insight into how she sees herself. The story is wrapped around the two boys, so it's easy to want to view Sakura from that perspective, but this moment is really about her. (And as for Hinata, she's just a cheerleader here. Nothing more.) Excellent tvtropes reference — that site is a blackhole of distractability!

Oh, and welcome, btw!




qft. Naruto, like most serialized literature, is formulaic. The pairings won't be resolved until the end. And until then, there will be lots more ups and downs to keep all the shippers on the hook. It's good writing, and it's good business.

If you are missing this, then I only have one thing to say: Stop reading the manga through a straw. Seriously. There is a bigger picture here that you are not seeing.

It is not about resolving a pairing in a single frame, or even in a single chapter. There is a build-up, climax and unraveling. That fact the Kishi is still rippling the waters with pairing stuff means that the story is still fully in it's build-up. Yay for us. Because once the pairing is resolved, the manga is over. (If Naruto accomplishes his goals, gets his love and Hokage, before he defeats/reforms Sasuke, then all that's left is for Naruto to chase Sasuke. And at that point everybody jumps ship.)

Kishi has certainly thrown out a solid piece of storytelling, and is masterfully jerking it along till the end. As readers, we don't always have to take the bait. Ten years of consistent build-up should give you some assurances. Naruto is obviously heading toward the battlefield — the chances are high that in the next 5-10 chapters there will be some NS interaction. So now we have to see if Kishi is true to his formula of a setback in the pairing followed by a greater gain.

edit: It's also a little disappointing to see the lack of faith in Sakura's character. (Especially from the NS camp.) She's worked harder than any of them, not having had the benefit of status or extraordinary power, and she has carried the weight and guilt of her decisions since back in her genin days. It would be shallow and terribly ooc of her NOT to reflect on the LoverNin's statement with a little bit of disappointment in herself. She says before the confession, "I'm always making mistakes." She doesn't have a flimsy, throw-away persona — she's the most realistic one amidst all these overblown story-book characters. And it's nice to see Kishimoto finally illustrating her as strong as she's had to be to get this far in the story. Don't undermine her fight scene by throwing away her whole personality on a childhood crush. The girl's come a lot farther than that.

you said it all. i totally agree with you.

lol. sorry about my post. network problem....(Reading mode)

[Blazing CobaltX]

Less worse than I thought, but I'm still upset about it.
But Sakura was awesome, smashing Zetsu down. She should be like this in every chapter!

Also, Mangareader had the wrong translation, so I misunderstood the whole chapter.

[Gravenimage]

i mean Sasuke "MAY" have a feeling for her since they are former friend and comrades. i did not mean he has. i just give my opinion that they will never be whether it is a recruited love or not. lol

Trying to kill her three times hmm kind of he used to feel something for her now he only wants to kill her along with everyone from Konoha.

[Nate River]

3. Sasuke- Now, before I get into this, please know that I'm not abandoning Naru/Saku I still love the pairing and all, but I try to pride myself on being both practical and realistic. I was majorly disappointed with seeing Saskue's face alone. It just struck me as after everything that's happened, that seeing that Uchiha was the sole figure in the panel when the topic is about the guy she's in love with. Now, I've read several I guess you can say the more faithful shippers that state that Sakura wasn't saying she was still in love with Sasuke but she was reflecting on the past and how much she dreaded her feelings or something along those lines. And I'll admit she does look depress during her mental image of Sasuke, but it's not like she snaps out of it with Naruto drifting into another thought in the next panel or page or something. It's just Sasuke and only Sasuke. And that point I can only take things at face value. I see what's on the manga page and I make a face much like Sakura's.

The only other thing I can say is this, where is the line drawn from where there is actual evidence present to the point we're just convincing ourselves that there is evidence there?

After thinking about it some, I think I'm in the same area as you. If it had been me writing (and based on what has come before it) I think I would have also picked number #2. Of course, this is assuming his intentions are what I think they are. The last time there was significant pairing development was Sakura's confession to Naruto. The whole thing left me with the impression of someone who convinced herself her feelings were resolved (something I think that would have been necessary to actually carry out her plan at the time), but, in fact, were not resolved. I think this is what Naruto means when he says she's lying to herself. Her failure to follow through with her plan I think tends to confirm this.

Because of that, I'd agree that if this is the message #2 makes the most sense. However, he didn't do that. He picked Sasuke alone following what the random ninja said, which at face value leaves the impression she's still in love with him and that he's the someone she referred to and that she's upset and depressed with how that's ultimate worked out.

I think some of the other interpretations mentioned are plausible, but the impression I was left with wasn't that. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see later chapters bear this out or future events come in that cause her to move on. Right now, I still expect something of that nature to happen, but without that I'm not ready to commit to it either, especially the former.

There is one other reason I can think of to select number #3 and that's to deliberately stir the pairing pot. Obviously, if that's part of the intent, mission accomplished. The reason I think this is because of the placement. Without knowing future events I can't place this in complete context and furture chapters may cover this, but as of today this scene seemed out of place for the chapter and time it was placed. Given that it was accomplished by Random Stalker Ninja, such a scene could easily be inserted anytime. Up to know this arc has been a war that's not spent a lot of time on pairings, and all of sudden in the middle of the battle (well, lull in the battle) a random ninja declares love, she thinks of Sasuke (and a Hinata page) and bam we are right back to the war. Future chapters may give this more context, but as it's insertion at this time felt odd to me, unless making an effort to jerk the pairings around. It's clearly generate a ton of interest in this chapter. More so, than anything else did.

That said, I'm not terribly bothered by it. In part, because it's one scene, but moslty because of how little she means to Sasuke's character at this point and because of Naruto's unchaning feelings. Since he left Konoha, I haven't seen any indication that he gives a damn about Sakura. He didn't seem especially surprised, concerned, or worried she had shown up and after she fails it's Naruto that shows and it's they who fight, which clearly sets up a final confrontation between them and only them. The ninja who he worries about is Naruto and at this point, only Naruto. SS fans often portay her as his light or the one that will help him, but the evidence strongly suggests that will be Naruto. Sasuke has had a impact on Sakura, but the converse really hasn't been the case, especially in Part 2. The character who has that impact is Naruto.

Second, Kishimoto clearly reinstablished Naruto's feelings for her. He reminded of someone who didn't have a lot of hope, but couldn't let go either. Sakura's face reminded me of his back then. He was equally depressed and it's not if he's been seeking to move on to "greener pastures" at this point. NaruHina is still all about Hinata. It's never been anything but that.

Someone compared this to a speed bump and for me, that's all it feels like.

[Living Lavish]

After thinking about it some, I think I'm in the same area as you. If it had been me writing (and based on what has come before it) I think I would have also picked number #2. Of course, this is assuming his intentions are what I think they are. The last time there was significant pairing development was Sakura's confession to Naruto. The whole thing left me with the impression of someone who convinced herself her feelings were resolved (something I think that would have been necessary to actually carry out her plan at the time), but, in fact, were not resolved. I think this is what Naruto means when he says she's lying to herself. Her failure to follow through with her plan I think tends to confirm this.

Because of that, I'd agree that if this is the message #2 makes the most sense. However, he didn't do that. He picked Sasuke alone following what the random ninja said, which at face value leaves the impression she's still in love with him and that he's the someone she referred to and that she's upset and depressed with how that's ultimate worked out.

I think some of the other interpretations mentioned are plausible, but the impression I was left with wasn't that. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see later chapters bear this out or future events come in that cause her to move on. Right now, I still expect something of that nature to happen, but without that I'm not ready to commit to it either, especially the former.

There is one other reason I can think of to select number #3 and that's to deliberately stir the pairing pot. Obviously, if that's part of the intent, mission accomplished. The reason I think this is because of the placement. Without knowing future events I can't place this in complete context and furture chapters may cover this, but as of today this scene seemed out of place for the chapter and time it was placed. Given that it was accomplished by Random Stalker Ninja, such a scene could easily be inserted anytime. Up to know this arc has been a war that's not spent a lot of time on pairings, and all of sudden in the middle of the battle (well, lull in the battle) a random ninja declares love, she thinks of Sasuke (and a Hinata page) and bam we are right back to the war. Future chapters may give this more context, but as it's insertion at this time felt odd to me, unless making an effort to jerk the pairings around. It's clearly generate a ton of interest in this chapter. More so, than anything else did.

That said, I'm not terribly bothered by it. In part, because it's one scene, but moslty because of how little she means to Sasuke's character at this point and because of Naruto's unchaning feelings. Since he left Konoha, I haven't seen any indication that he gives a damn about Sakura. He didn't seem especially surprised, concerned, or worried she had shown up and after she fails it's Naruto that shows and it's they who fight, which clearly sets up a final confrontation between them and only them. The ninja who he worries about is Naruto and at this point, only Naruto. SS fans often portay her as his light or the one that will help him, but the evidence strongly suggests that will be Naruto. Sasuke has had a impact on Sakura, but the converse really hasn't been the case, especially in Part 2. The character who has that impact is Naruto.

Second, Kishimoto clearly reinstablished Naruto's feelings for her. He reminded of someone who didn't have a lot of hope, but couldn't let go either. Sakura's face reminded me of his back then. He was equally depressed and it's not if he's been seeking to move on to "greener pastures" at this point. NaruHina is still all about Hinata. It's never been anything but that.

Someone compared this to a speed bump and for me, that's all it feels like.

do you think Sakuras ashamed in her love for sasuke? cuz he isn't a great guy and she knows that.

Edited by Living Lavish, 26 May 2011 - 03:54 PM.

[Living Lavish]

Hoooo....... got a lot of replies to a lot of you guys.



Exactly. This actually regresses Sakura's character. I don't understand it. Kishi said that Sakura was honest in her confession, and yet here he suddenly does a 180. This is extremely hypocritical of Kishi. It makes him look like an extremely bad writer. Hell, it makes him on the same level as those cheap romance novelists in the west. (Twilight, anyone?)



Yeah, that sounds like an interesting turn of events. If Naruto finds out, he may just have a little chat with him. In fact, I hope he says something like, "please make her happy." They'll probably start talking about Sasuke (you just know it'll head there) the guy will then be outraged and starts badmouthing her. And then Naruto gets angry and defends her but this actually turns the tables on Naruto. He'll realize Naruto still loves Sakura deeply. And he'll ask what he feels about Sakura which leads to telling him everything about Team 7 and perhaps the POAL as well. He'll then tell Naruto to tell Sakura what he really feels. Naruto refuses. And they end up in a fistfight.

Ironic enough, the guy is an Iwa-nin whose village's greatest enemy was Minato. But he'll be the one to push NS even closer and help bring Naruto happiness. It'd be even more ironic if Minato was the one who killed someone dear to him but in this one fight, Naruto will lose. Why?? because the Iwa-nin's "fists" had the stronger resolve. So it'd be kind of a poetic justice for the Iwa-nin and in a way, he'd able to accomplish his revenge by beating Naruto to a bloody pulp.



If you look at it from SSers' POV, then no. IMO, it seemed as if she's acting like those chicks in western novels who want to unrealistically be with him and want to find any kind of way to make him all loving. Remember, I'm taking this view as to how a SSer would see it. And frankly, I'll have to agree.



Absolutely. Naruto VS Raikage will be EPIC!!




Hopefully he does. It has SO much potential. Awesome rap BTW. Bet Bee would say the exact same words.



QFT. I'd disagree with the percentages, though.

Anyways, sometimes you just have to take things at face value. Frankly, as much as I love the "overanalysis". Just this once I'm taking a critical stance. To be honest, I sometimes feel some know-it-alls here just pull things out of their hide just to keep us encouraged. Not that I don't appreciate it, but the more I think about it, the more I have to question it.



I think you missed his point. Remember why Sasuke took this path. It was because of love. The love he had for his family and clan drove him to this point in the present. And that's why it's quite reasonable to think love will also save him. Sakura's love (in SSers' POV). It kinda makes sense if you think about it and you'll have to admit it has some merit. He went psycho because of love and yet love will also save him. Ironic, huh??




Well, let's hope he DOES keep up the pattern. But the only thing is, I hate how he's doing it. It just feels like he's having fun trolling the fandom and screwing them over.



Oh yes it can. Why?? simple. If one has feelings, there's still a chance the other one will think about it and do a 180 on his decision. That's why it's so small but yet still there.



Well, I certainly ain't gonna abandon ship but if there's one thing I have to say it's Kishi's fault for making us feel like it. Which is such a lame and cheap move IMO.




Bolded: NOW THAT is how it's SUPPOSED TO BE.



Err... when was Orihime's confession again?? it's been such a long time......



Frankly, this big 3 stuff only applies to the west. Kishi doesn't even know about the huge pairing wars in the west. This makes me believe Kishi's editor forced him to. Why, I don't know.



ciardha, I've always respected you for your opinions, but I can't help but say "say what??" If Sakura was indeed honest, (as Kishi told us) Why was this chapter like this, then?? I ask you this. If Kishi had indeed been true to his word, then why did he do this. Frankly, I can't really accept your reasonings about the panels because it can be interpreted in two ways:

1. She's still in love with Sasuke.
2. The reasons you stated.

I'm leaning towards no. 1 why?? if it's really like you said, then why isn't there anymore clear hints?? It actually makes her look like like a love slave for Sasuke craving for his love and being masochistic towards him.

Sakura dosen't impact Sasuke at all!! hes not infautuated with her and never thought of her in romantic way or been attracted to her. this FACT!

HER LOVE IS NOT GONNA SAVE HIM thats Naruto job!! witch Kishi has reminded us over and over again.

we have past hints evereywhere for her feelings regarding Naruto don't disregard all the development an forshadowing just because of this. look at Sakuras relationship with Naruto and how shes confused about her feelings. its the only hetero pairing thats mutual in attraction and something more. whats the point of all this evidence and feelings if nothing happens and theres no end result? Naruto doesn't get the girl of his dreams means he failed along with his teacher.

Naruto loves Sakura and Sakura is highly confused about her feelings for him.

Edited by Living Lavish, 26 May 2011 - 04:04 PM.

[Nate River]

do you think Sakuras ashamed in her love for sasuke? cuz he isn't a great guy and she knows that.

Shame? No.

If I were going to along those lines, I think regret or depressed might be a better word. The impression I get is the one I said, but I'm not even completely sold on that either. At this point, I'm just waiting to see what comes of it. Any kind of bailing or celebrating based on this is totally premature,

The question would be what does she regret? As Nowhere pointed out, it's not as if the scene shifted to a person she loves who is one (i.e. Naruto), it's Sasuke and only that.

[Kobayashi]

To me this only shows that manga will endure surely for about 4-5 years more after all this, cause kishi has to show little by little how sakura is forgetting sasuke and turning more and more to naruto, and i thought it will end soon.
Btw if you wanna know how it is in business revolving around manga and anime read bakuman, yeah it is far fetched sometimes but is funny and gives a real insight of what writer must go through to publish weakly chapter, and how important role in making of one chapter has editor, and company has experience with all kinds of manga so they know what stirs the crowd, and how to build up ratings. They are studying what will give highest ratings for one manga and keep people drawn to it for some time, and then give another push, relying on success and error mechanism.

[Sakura Blossoms]

@ Codus - For your long reply on page 14, I believe it is you who has completely missed the point of this chapter. But that's my opinion and we can just agree to disagree on this.

Thank you! I saw that person's reaction and the longer one later and was like- seriously dude you don't know how to read manga.

And seriously Yosh, you sound like a Sakura basher that will use any excuse to bash the character. You don't sound the least bit like a narusaku but like that NHer that was in here earlier.

Oh and I saw the panel and Sakura's answer to the guy wasn't even "ha... It was gomen nasai- which is "I'm sorry"

Oh, and naruhina and Sasusaku are less than one sided, while narusaku is mutual. NH and SS are less than one sided now because Naruto has zero interest in Hinata, and Hinata is transitioning quite readily away from her crush and to seeing Naruto as an encouraging role model.

Sasuke has zero interest in Sakura, except as one of the many people he wants to kill- and attempted to four times now, Naruto being first on his list. The memories of her feelings for Sasuke just makes her miserable and ashamed. Sounds pretty dead a ship to me. Sakura is romantically in love with Naruto, Sakura said so, Sai said so, Naruto doesn't disagree and in fact sees Sakura now in his mind looking at him with romantic love, and Kishimoto himself made the point blank statement to all Sakura bashers that Sakura was being completely truthful about being romantically in love with Naruto and believing that she had purged all her feelings for Sasuke- even team mate bonds. Knowing she still feels a connection to Sasuke, just makes her feel sick at heart. How does her romantic love for Naruto make her feel- Happy, flirtatious, blushing, safe and warm inside. Naruto loves Sakura, Sakura loves Naruto and both are aware of the other being as deeply in love with them as the other...

Now tell me, which one sounds like love. like a ship in full sail? Looks like Narusaku is the only one of those. Seriously, the only other ship that involves the main characters that has any evidence of mutual feelings is SasukexNaruto but Naruto is 100% het, so that ends that ship. Sasuke gives enough evidence to being bisexual with more inclination toward being gay (Karin is the only female he has ever shown the least attraction to--not that that worked out well for her!), and his love/hate feelings for Naruto definitely has romantic overtones- something Kishimoto even visually played out on one manga volume cover that looked like a shonen-ai cover with Sasuke thinking of Naruto with a sort of wistful/longing look on his face.

Brilliant post. Thanks you for so eloquently verbalizing what I also feel on this whole topic.

[Living Lavish]

Shame? No.

If I were going to along those lines, I think regret or depressed might be a better word. The impression I get is the one I said, but I'm not even completely sold on that either. At this point, I'm just waiting to see what comes of it. Any kind of bailing or celebrating based on this is totally premature,

The question would be what does she regret? As Nowhere pointed out, it's not as if the scene shifted to a person she loves who is one (i.e. Naruto), it's Sasuke and only that.

yeah i call it regret also.
the point is sasuke was never a great guy to Sakura thats the irony of the statement witch shows Sakuras love in bad light, she knows hes not. kishi been doing this regularly since the confession showing that love is negative. i am completley sold on it cuz it makes sense. and people are too.

Edited by Living Lavish, 26 May 2011 - 04:41 PM.

[Nate River]

the point is sasuke was never a great guy to Sakura thats the irony of the statement witch shows Sakuras love in bad light, she knows hes not. kishi been doing this regularly since the confession showing that love is negative. i am comepletley sold on it cuz it makes sense. and people are too.

As I said, I think it's possible this is what he meant and if that if she has not moved yet on she ultimately will. Something along those lines is what I expect.

However, showing her love in a negative light does not prove it's doesn't exist. That scene left me with the impression she still has feelings for him, but at no point did I ever say said I think this leads to SasuSaku or suggest that is the only rational interpretation.

I don't know why the possibility she still may have lingering feelings for him gets so many NaruSaku fans bent out of shape. I've said numerous times I think she's still rather conflicted and I still think that's true. I don't think we will get a clean in-your-face resolution of those feelings until series end. It's the golden goose, and it's still laying golden eggs for Kishimoto.

[Living Lavish]

As I said, I think it's possible this is what he meant and if that if she has not moved yet on she ultimately will. Something along those lines is what I expect.

However, showing her love in a negative light does not prove it's doesn't exist. That scene left me with the impression she still has feelings for him, but at no point did I ever say said I think this leads to SasuSaku or suggest that is the only rational interpretation.

I don't know why the possibility she still may have lingering feelings for him gets so many NaruSaku fans bent out of shape. I've said numerous times I think she's still rather conflicted and I still think that's true. I don't think we will get a clean in-your-face resolution of those feelings until series end. It's the golden goose, and it's still laying golden eggs for Kishimoto.

alright i got it. just trying to understand what you actually mean.
english is not my first language. but thanks.

[Nate River]

alright i got it. just trying to understand what you actually mean.
english is not my first language. but thanks.

It's fine. It could also be that I was not as clear as I thought I was.

[lav]

Trying to kill her three times hmm kind of he used to feel something for her now he only wants to kill her along with everyone from Konoha.

hmmm, what you said is true. but you cannot deny the fact that they become friends and comrades before and his hate towards her and Konoha is just the product of the truth behind the Uchiha murder. who knows one of this day the author will use that bond to further confuse narusaku fans just like this chapter.

hmmm, why did i sound that i am defending Sasuke? lol

[Chew]

Hey there — my thoughts exactly. This is a Sakura moment. Not a shipping moment. This is an insight into how she sees herself. The story is wrapped around the two boys, so it's easy to want to view Sakura from that perspective, but this moment is really about her. (And as for Hinata, she's just a cheerleader here. Nothing more.) Excellent tvtropes reference — that site is a blackhole of distractability!

Oh, and welcome, btw!




qft. Naruto, like most serialized literature, is formulaic. The pairings won't be resolved until the end. And until then, there will be lots more ups and downs to keep all the shippers on the hook. It's good writing, and it's good business.

If you are missing this, then I only have one thing to say: Stop reading the manga through a straw. Seriously. There is a bigger picture here that you are not seeing.

It is not about resolving a pairing in a single frame, or even in a single chapter. There is a build-up, climax and unraveling. That fact the Kishi is still rippling the waters with pairing stuff means that the story is still fully in it's build-up. Yay for us. Because once the pairing is resolved, the manga is over. (If Naruto accomplishes his goals, gets his love and Hokage, before he defeats/reforms Sasuke, then all that's left is for Naruto to chase Sasuke. And at that point everybody jumps ship.)

Kishi has certainly thrown out a solid piece of storytelling, and is masterfully jerking it along till the end. As readers, we don't always have to take the bait. Ten years of consistent build-up should give you some assurances. Naruto is obviously heading toward the battlefield — the chances are high that in the next 5-10 chapters there will be some NS interaction. So now we have to see if Kishi is true to his formula of a setback in the pairing followed by a greater gain.

edit: It's also a little disappointing to see the lack of faith in Sakura's character. (Especially from the NS camp.) She's worked harder than any of them, not having had the benefit of status or extraordinary power, and she has carried the weight and guilt of her decisions since back in her genin days. It would be shallow and terribly ooc of her NOT to reflect on the LoverNin's statement with a little bit of disappointment in herself. She says before the confession, "I'm always making mistakes." She doesn't have a flimsy, throw-away persona — she's the most realistic one amidst all these overblown story-book characters. And it's nice to see Kishimoto finally illustrating her as strong as she's had to be to get this far in the story. Don't undermine her fight scene by throwing away her whole personality on a childhood crush. The girl's come a lot farther than that.

:') The great Tricksie referenced one of my posts I feel honored. But I whole-heartedly agree with you, to put things in a simple manner. XD

[Living Lavish]

hmmm, what you said is true. but you cannot deny the fact that they become friends and comrades before and his hate towards her and Konoha is just the product of the truth behind the Uchiha murder. who knows one of this day the author will use that bond to further confuse narusaku fans just like this chapter.

hmmm, why did i sound that i am defending Sasuke? lol

they had a teamseven bond! Sakura never had a bond with sasuke. a bond is supporting eachother, motivation, being there, pusing forward, chemistry etc.

they didn't have any of that. it was a one-sided and selfish love that held back Sakuras character

but yeah basically friendship and comrades because thats what sasuke viewed her as (in the old Naruto fan book)

[Codus N]

Sakura dosen't impact Sasuke at all!! hes not infautuated with her and never thought of her in romantic way or been attracted to her. this FACT!

HER LOVE IS NOT GONNA SAVE HIM thats Naruto job!! witch Kishi has reminded us over and over again.

we have past hints evereywhere for her feelings regarding Naruto don't disregard all the development an forshadowing just because of this. look at Sakuras relationship with Naruto and how shes confused about her feelings. its the only hetero pairing thats mutual in attraction and something more. whats the point of all this evidence and feelings if nothing happens and theres no end result? Naruto doesn't get the girl of his dreams means he failed along with his teacher.

Naruto loves Sakura and Sakura is highly confused about her feelings for him.

No, that's where you're wrong. I was taking it from a different POV in this case, how a SSer would see it. And frankly, I might have to agree. If Kishi had done the chapter differently, then there wouldn't be this huge misunderstanding of what Kishi wants to convey.

@ Codus - For your long reply on page 14, I believe it is you who has completely missed the point of this chapter. But that's my opinion and we can just agree to disagree on this.

Sasuke has zero interest in Sakura, except as one of the many people he wants to kill- and attempted to four times now, Naruto being first on his list. The memories of her feelings for Sasuke just makes her miserable and ashamed. Sounds pretty dead a ship to me. Sakura is romantically in love with Naruto, Sakura said so, Sai said so, Naruto doesn't disagree and in fact sees Sakura now in his mind looking at him with romantic love, and Kishimoto himself made the point blank statement to all Sakura bashers that Sakura was being completely truthful about being romantically in love with Naruto and believing that she had purged all her feelings for Sasuke- even team mate bonds. Knowing she still feels a connection to Sasuke, just makes her feel sick at heart. How does her romantic love for Naruto make her feel- Happy, flirtatious, blushing, safe and warm inside. Naruto loves Sakura, Sakura loves Naruto and both are aware of the other being as deeply in love with them as the other...

Brilliant post. Thanks you for so eloquently verbalizing what I also feel on this whole topic.

I disagree. (to SB, that is) Me, miss the point?? WHAT point?? all I know that at face value it can be taken as SS. And really what was the point of Sakura's confession and Kishi's "Sakura being honest about the Iron Country Confession" statement if Kishi had this chapter turn out like this?? granted, all the positive points you pointed are plausible which I agree with Nate on, but to me it feels kinda like a desperate hope clinging to me. I also sometimes can't help but feel some of you act like smart alecs about our pairing and the manga. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but frankly, it's hard to believe someone's opinion as neutral here when we know we're all biased here.

@ciardha: the only problem I have with that is the same thing Nate has a problem with. If Kishi had done this chapter differently, like Nowhere suggested then I wouldn't have a problem with it, because it would make a whole lot more sense and less misleading. If Kishi truly wanted to convey Sakura's was honest about her confession to Naruto, then he would have done it like Nowhere did. But this..... is just downright confusing and I hate it. (not the manga just the way Kishi's going about it) If SS is truly dead and Kishi wants it to stay then why the hell did Kishi do this??

Kishi's not giving me the feeling he wants me to feel. (if he is intending what I think he is intending)

Sasuke has zero interest in Sakura, that I can fully agree. But you know how the theme of this manga is never giving up. So, frankly the way I can see this chapter for SS and from SSer POV, is that through her sheer determination and "honesty" she'll win Sasuke over and that Sasuke will see the "light". That's how I see it from a SSer's POV.

Well, that's enough being devil's advocate now. I'll be going off to sleep.