279 replies to this topic

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Orochimaru is pure evil ... there's' no way he would be redeemed. Even though he's a lot calmer now than before, I'm not seeing much signs that he's changed to that degree.

Orochimaru's like the only good villain. If he gets redeemed, I will be pissed.

[Awes9]

I'm not saying there are signs he changed altough he has been acting OOC lately I'm saying there are signs he has never been pure evil as you say, I didn't invent the part where Jiraya said Oro changed when his parents died or the part in chapter 620 where he admits he didn't attack Konoha on a whim and that there are other reasons for his attack, these are hints for what I don't know exactly but they obviously open the door for an Orochimaru's sob story.

[sushi.]

I'm not saying there are signs he changed altough he has been acting OOC lately I'm saying there are signs he has never been pure evil as you say, I didn't invent the part where Jiraya said Oro changed when his parents died or the part in chapter 620 where he admits he didn't attack Konoha on a whim and that there are other reasons for his attack, these are hints for what I don't know exactly but they obviously open the door for an Orochimaru's sob story.

Orochimaru will be redeemed if Kishi gives us his sob story, yes.

Although right now, I don't see it happening, I hope it doesn't. Anyone who are aware of Kishi's flashback habit knows it will destroy Oro's character and add 20 useless chapters.

[Awes9]

Orochimaru will be redeemed if Kishi gives us his sob story, yes.

Although right now, I don't see it happening, I hope it doesn't. Anyone who are aware of Kishi's flashback habit knows it will destroy Oro's character and add 20 useless chapters.

I hope you're right, but I don't think he added these parts about Oro for no reason, guess we will have to wait and see.

[Phantom_999]

Redeems everything everything except why hes such a pedo.

Edited by Phantom_999, 25 February 2013 - 02:49 AM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

I'm not saying there are signs he changed altough he has been acting OOC lately I'm saying there are signs he has never been pure evil as you say, I didn't invent the part where Jiraya said Oro changed when his parents died or the part in chapter 620 where he admits he didn't attack Konoha on a whim and that there are other reasons for his attack, these are hints for what I don't know exactly but they obviously open the door for an Orochimaru's sob story.

IMO, he became pure evil in a combination of killing his sensei and then nearly killing Tsunade when she jumped in front of Naruto to protect him. He wasn't pure evil until then. Now he's IMO pure evil, he's way too deep in darkness.

I just hope Kishimoto doesn't destory his character. Even though I hate Orochimaru, he's like the best villain currently and he should stay the best villain. He's perfect for the role, we need at least one "good" villain. Not all of them should be redeemed, especially one as interesting and cold-hearted as Orochimaru.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

IMO, he became pure evil in a combination of killing his sensei and then nearly killing Tsunade when she jumped in front of Naruto to protect him. He wasn't pure evil until then. Now he's IMO pure evil, he's way too deep in darkness.

I just hope Kishimoto doesn't destory his character. Even though I hate Orochimaru, he's like the best villain currently and he should stay the best villain. He's perfect for the role, we need at least one "good" villain. Not all of them should be redeemed, especially one as interesting and cold-hearted as Orochimaru.

Orochimaru should have stay death the best villain on the story was Kabuto, a the best villain is not someome who's pure evil or whatever but it's based on the objectives, Kabout only wanted to world to burn and he wanted to both Alliance and the Shinobi to lose and even put Obito on a difficult situation like everyone.
I wanted Naruto to fight him since they promised to each other they would fight now he got defeated by a jutsu that he trained so hard to overcome.
I dont even care for villain on this story anymore Orochimaru will be "redeemed".

Kabuto was perfect he started the story being stomped by Naruto and other people then he got strong not just with the experiments but he "surpassed" Orochimaru because he trained, he did train to learn the sage mode.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 February 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[narusakurama]

Orochimaru should have stay death the best villain on the story was Kabuto, a the best villain is not someome who's pure evil or whatever but it's based on the objectives, Kabout only wanted to world to burn and he wanted to both Alliance and the Shinobi to lose and even put Obito on a difficult situation like everyone.
I wanted Naruto to fight him since they promised to each other they would fight now he got defeated by a jutsu that he trained so hard to overcome.
I dont even care for villain on this story anymore Orochimaru will be "redeemed".

Kabuto was perfect he started the story being stomped by Naruto and other people then he got strong not just with the experiments but he "surpassed" Orochimaru because he trained, he did train to learn the sage mode.

I have this crazy theory that it all was part of Orchimaru's plan and all Kabuto did was to follow it . He allowed Sasuke to take over his body and planned on Kabuto reviving him later . Kabuto asks for Sasuke in return for joining the war , he refuses to kill Anko when Obito asks him plus that Orochimaru was not at all surprised to have been revived , he was surprised that it was Sasuke that did it (his plan did not count for Itachi ) . I am also basing this theory on the fact that Orochimaru probably always intended to get his arms back from the moment he found that scroll ... and if he did that after getting Sasuke's body , he would have lost the body . Also , he is always shown to have been a genius with great insight into peoples minds , there is just no way he did not expect Sasuke to try and kill him , especially considering the weakened state in which he was at that time .

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

I have this crazy theory that it all was part of Orchimaru's plan and all Kabuto did was to follow it . He allowed Sasuke to take over his body and planned on Kabuto reviving him later . Kabuto asks for Sasuke in return for joining the war , he refuses to kill Anko when Obito asks him plus that Orochimaru was not at all surprised to have been revived , he was surprised that it was Sasuke that did it (his plan did not count for Itachi ) . I am also basing this theory on the fact that Orochimaru probably always intended to get his arms back from the moment he found that scroll ... and if he did that after getting Sasuke's body , he would have lost the body . Also , he is always shown to have been a genius with great insight into peoples minds , there is just no way he did not expect Sasuke to try and kill him , especially considering the weakened state in which he was at that time .

Because he needed orochimaru's chakra to keep control the edo tensei perfectly, this is the reason why only after he get anko he summoned Madara, Kabuto was using orochimaru.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 February 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Orochimaru should have stay death the best villain on the story was Kabuto, a the best villain is not someome who's pure evil or whatever but it's based on the objectives, Kabout only wanted to world to burn and he wanted to both Alliance and the Shinobi to lose and even put Obito on a difficult situation like everyone.
I wanted Naruto to fight him since they promised to each other they would fight now he got defeated by a jutsu that he trained so hard to overcome.
I dont even care for villain on this story anymore Orochimaru will be "redeemed".

Kabuto was perfect he started the story being stomped by Naruto and other people then he got strong not just with the experiments but he "surpassed" Orochimaru because he trained, he did train to learn the sage mode.

IMO, Orochimaru is still a better villain than Kabuto. He was ambitious and what he did was rooted in the most selfish, least sympathetic one so far. Kabuto was a good villain until he became victimized like the rest of them and owned by Itachi. From what I remember, Kabuto just stole Orochimaru's cells. It wasn't even his real power, just borrowed. I really didn't like that, but I found him a good villain until Itachi ruined everything. Props to Kabuto for still not realizing the error of his ways in Izanami so far.

Orochimaru is the best villain, I hope so much Kishimoto does not ruin that. Please no. Obito, Madara (somewhat) I can handle ... but Orochimaru? Come on now.

[Sojobo]

Orochimaru is the best villain, I hope so much Kishimoto does not ruin that. Please no. Obito, Madara (somewhat) I can handle ... but Orochimaru? Come on now.

I understand, but that's what gonna happen with Orochimaru too.
I think that he'll fight Kabuto. Remember, Itachi used Izanami on Kabuto to save him. The only way to defeat Izanami is to accept what and who you are.
When Kabuto will realize that, he'll probably not be a bad guy anymore (his orphan friend that is waiting for him is at 100% a hint of turning back to the good side).
But to achieve his final developpement, he has to fight the one he always admired, the one that have to aknowledge him: Orochimaru.

I don't know about you guys, but for me, the end is quiete predictable, Sasuke will be the final vilain.
And the fight against Taka and Sasuke will have place on the Moon (remember Madara's talking about summoning the moon).
We also have a lot of hints about Rikudou's Trone (it make sense when you know that Juubi's empty body was sealed on the Moon) when Madara is explaining everything to Obito in his Genjutsu you can see a drawing of Rikudou Sennin and his scepter sitting on his Trone, on the Moon. It makes sense when you decide to be a God (Rikudou became one just after becoming Juubi's Jinchuuriki), you have to see things from Heaven, like Kamisama in Dragon Ball lol.

That's why I see Sasuke becoming Juubi's Jinchuuriki. In his state right now, he's no match for Naruto, and he was quiete upset when he felt Naruto's chakra on the battlefield.
After Madara and Obito defeats, Sasuke will go too the Moon that Madara summoned, and will prepare his futur plans (I can imagine that he'll try to make peace with other methods than Naruto, wrong methods of course).
We will have a little break for Naruto and his friends at that time (I think they will not be in a good state after the battle they had before), Tsunade's death will be annonced, crying about their losses, and preparing for the final fight on the Moon against Sasuke. (it's a perfect time tomake it clear about Naruto and Sakura's feelings)
And when that time will come, Kabuto will make his appareance and asking Naruto to go with him. (the others will probably panic in the beginning, but Naruto will see right away that Kabuto has changed)

I don't see Naruto taking a lot of people with him, Kabuto, Sakura, Shikamaru, Lee and maybe Gaara (Taka is strong, Kishi has to choose strong people who can defeat Suigetsu or Juugo that will probably will have new powers)

It's prediction, don't take it too seriously huh.
But that's how I see things happen in the futur...

[Awes9]

IMO, he became pure evil in a combination of killing his sensei and then nearly killing Tsunade when she jumped in front of Naruto to protect him. He wasn't pure evil until then. Now he's IMO pure evil, he's way too deep in darkness.

I just hope Kishimoto doesn't destory his character. Even though I hate Orochimaru, he's like the best villain currently and he should stay the best villain. He's perfect for the role, we need at least one "good" villain. Not all of them should be redeemed, especially one as interesting and cold-hearted as Orochimaru.

Just 2 chapters ago Oro was lecturing Tobirama about how Edo Tensei and his policies were immoral, Oro from all people was saying that. I prefer to be pessimistic and aknowledge the possibility Oro might be redeemed and not 100% evil altough I hope Kishi won't go down that road it would be terrible.

[sushi.]

Just 2 chapters ago Oro was lecturing Tobirama about how Edo Tensei and his policies were immoral, Oro from all people was saying that. I prefer to be pessimistic and aknowledge the possibility Oro might be redeemed and not 100% evil altough I hope Kishi won't go down that road it would be terrible.

I don't think Oro was trying to lecture Tobirama about morals. I think he just said how much havoc it caused, because Oro knows that Tobirama didn't want or expect any of these consequences. He even did the jutsu himself right before saying that.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Orochimaru was really lecturing and he pretty much described how the kages failed and why he didnt like the kages i'm not surprised that if he comes up with
"i wanted to destroy the village because i dont like those ideals".
His way pretty much describes the path Sasuke will take, it's going to show that Orochimaru is not evil he simply thinks that the kage's will is wrong and Sasuke will also think like that.
"Why i have to sacrifice myself for people who does not give a kitten about me?"

[jworks]

Orochimaru was really lecturing and he pretty much described how the kages failed and why he didnt like the kages i'm not surprised that if he comes up with
"i wanted to destroy the village because i dont like those ideals".
His way pretty much describes the path Sasuke will take, it's going to show that Orochimaru is not evil he simply thinks that the kage's will is wrong and Sasuke will also think like that.
"Why i have to sacrifice myself for people who does not give a kitten about me?"

If that is how Sasuke will feel, he still has no motive to destroy Konoha. Konoha's ideals stopped effecting them the second Orochimaru and Sasuke left the village. And Sasuke is motivated by only what effects him. If he attack's Konoha, it's because it was their fault that HE lost his beloved brother and the rest of his clan. Whereas Madara and Obito are enacting their destruction because of 'peace' for the whole world. Although you can still see in both Madara and Obito's personal stories why they think it's necessary to save the rest of the world.

[fireandice]

IMO, Orochimaru is still a better villain than Kabuto. He was ambitious and what he did was rooted in the most selfish, least sympathetic one so far. Kabuto was a good villain until he became victimized like the rest of them and owned by Itachi. From what I remember, Kabuto just stole Orochimaru's cells. It wasn't even his real power, just borrowed. I really didn't like that, but I found him a good villain until Itachi ruined everything. Props to Kabuto for still not realizing the error of his ways in Izanami so far.

Orochimaru is the best villain, I hope so much Kishimoto does not ruin that. Please no. Obito, Madara (somewhat) I can handle ... but Orochimaru? Come on now.

Imo there is nothing wrong with giving villains a tragic backstory or backstory of sorts that suggested they were once NORMAL/GOOD, really. People aren't born evil, even if we talk about psychopaths whom psychologists think are born without a conscience. Their environment affects whether they might simply be an extremely successful person in the business world or instead become a serial killer. I think it makes villains more interesting when we see how they became what they are. It would be incredibly boring if all of them were bad for the sake of being bad or all just crazy like Hidan.

I don't see what's the problem with giving Oro a tragic backstory. It's already been hinted 300+ chapters ago about his parents. It could be that he started as a child who missed his parents, but eventually became so fascinated by his scientific discoveries that he became obsessed with power. I am alright with this as long as Kishi does not say "Oro was never never obsessed with power, he just had mummy and daddy issues". His tragic past can be the catalyst for leading him down the path of villainy, however, without detracting from his "evilness".

A villain with a tragic backstory =/= good, or capable of redemption. Their backstory perhaps only may 'make' us view them as 'less' of villains because they are humanised somewhat; we see how they became the monsters they are today. But that doesn't change the fact that Oro has committed many, many terrible crimes.

I mean Sasuke was severely traumatised as a child but it doesn't take away from the severity of his actions either.

Though Sasuke's comment about Orochimaru's reasons for attacking Konoha makes me think that perhaps Oro was somehow a victim, or his parents got caught up in being sacrificed for the greater good by the leadership or something. I mean, bothering to attack the Leaf? I mean we know what they say about hate not being the opposite of love.

[jworks]

Imo there is nothing wrong with giving villains a tragic backstory or backstory of sorts that suggested they were once NORMAL/GOOD, really. People aren't born evil, even if we talk about psychopaths whom psychologists think are born without a conscience. Their environment affects whether they might simply be an extremely successful person in the business world or instead become a serial killer. I think it makes villains more interesting when we see how they became what they are. It would be incredibly boring if all of them were bad for the sake of being bad or all just crazy like Hidan.

I think so too. Any character has to have to filled out with these motivations and backstories to make them dynamic. Villains are always such an important character in any story too, so you want them to be dynamic! And it helps the reader get emotionally invested in the story. And as demonstrated in Naruto, villain backstories are a good way to draw connections between the protagonist and the "person gone wrong"

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see all villains turn good at the end. It is satisfying to see the hero deal the last blow to a villan still screaming his defiance!

My favorite villains with extensive backstories: Magneto, Voldemort, Sauron, Vader.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Imo there is nothing wrong with giving villains a tragic backstory or backstory of sorts that suggested they were once NORMAL/GOOD, really. People aren't born evil, even if we talk about psychopaths whom psychologists think are born without a conscience. Their environment affects whether they might simply be an extremely successful person in the business world or instead become a serial killer. I think it makes villains more interesting when we see how they became what they are. It would be incredibly boring if all of them were bad for the sake of being bad or all just crazy like Hidan.

I don't see what's the problem with giving Oro a tragic backstory. It's already been hinted 300+ chapters ago about his parents. It could be that he started as a child who missed his parents, but eventually became so fascinated by his scientific discoveries that he became obsessed with power. I am alright with this as long as Kishi does not say "Oro was never never obsessed with power, he just had mummy and daddy issues". His tragic past can be the catalyst for leading him down the path of villainy, however, without detracting from his "evilness".

A villain with a tragic backstory =/= good, or capable of redemption. Their backstory perhaps only may 'make' us view them as 'less' of villains because they are humanised somewhat; we see how they became the monsters they are today. But that doesn't change the fact that Oro has committed many, many terrible crimes.

I mean Sasuke was severely traumatised as a child but it doesn't take away from the severity of his actions either.

Though Sasuke's comment about Orochimaru's reasons for attacking Konoha makes me think that perhaps Oro was somehow a victim, or his parents got caught up in being sacrificed for the greater good by the leadership or something. I mean, bothering to attack the Leaf? I mean we know what they say about hate not being the opposite of love.

I already saw the tragic backstory hint a while back when Jiraiya was mentioning Orochimaru's parents death. I don't entirely mind, I just hope Orochimaru doesn't turn into another victim to the extent of Sasuke or Nagato. And I still prefer Orochimaru never gets redeemed. If he does, I will be pissed. He's so much better as a villain, I'd be extremely annoyed if every villain has to be ruined. We need at least one "good" villain.

Let's hope Kishi does not get carried away with Orochimaru and ruin his character too much. Like I said, he's the only good villain at this point IMO.

[jworks]

I already saw the tragic backstory hint a while back when Jiraiya was mentioning Orochimaru's parents death. I don't entirely mind, I just hope Orochimaru doesn't turn into another victim to the extent of Sasuke or Nagato. And I still prefer Orochimaru never gets redeemed. If he does, I will be pissed. He's so much better as a villain, I'd be extremely annoyed if every villain has to be ruined. We need at least one "good" villain.

Let's hope Kishi does not get carried away with Orochimaru and ruin his character too much. Like I said, he's the only good villain at this point IMO.

Agreed. Although the problem at this point for me with Orochimaru is that he has lost so much power in my eyes. I mean, he is as powerful as ever right now but back in Part 1 he was the strongest one out of everyone which made him scary and a more capable villain. But now that he has been defeated a couple times, and two more powerful villains showed up, he doesn't cary as much clout.

But maybe in the next several chapters he will prove me wrong and show off some more impressive power.

[sushi.]

Agreed. Although the problem at this point for me with Orochimaru is that he has lost so much power in my eyes. I mean, he is as powerful as ever right now but back in Part 1 he was the strongest one out of everyone which made him scary and a more capable villain. But now that he has been defeated a couple times, and two more powerful villains showed up, he doesn't cary as much clout.

But maybe in the next several chapters he will prove me wrong and show off some more impressive power.

Going by Kishi's strict patterns, I've always believed Oro was slightly weaker than Jiraiya. I wouldn't mind if Kishi breaks just one parallell, because I think it has become too much.