4036 replies to this topic

[Shadow1275]

Is the raw out yet? .. Present tense or past tense?

Word on the street is that they are coming out tomorrow

[Raito]

If Sakura has a dream about Sasuke or their childhood while she's in the state, smh, i'm so done. LMAO

[Shadow1275]

From what I hear, nothing negative about it. Alot of people are kind of pissed at Kishi for pulling the LOI crap again with Sakura's emotions.

Lol, I wonder if the Japanese fans get a laugh out of how hardcore we are about our Shonen pairings. They probably just see it as it is, an action story about friendship.

[Nostradamus]

I think they are still pissed about Kakashi's role to be honest.

Wait Kakashi has a role?

 

 

Okay.  So I've been thinking about the post Verilance made a bunch of pages back, and he's right.  I think we, as a community, have lost our way in terms of our expectations and reading this story the way it is intended.

 

If I stand back and take a calm look, it becomes clear that we've been expecting something more to be underneath the underneath, or a level of finesse that doesn't actually suit a shonen manga.

 

For ages now we've been collectively braying and bleating about the way those "other" fandoms are missing the point.  How they want something specific to happen... how they want what they want to happen so badly that they can't see the forest for the freaking trees.  Upon reflection I would say we've basically been doing the same thing.

 

We've been over-analyzing every little detail, speculating on how things were going to play out and doing so much of it so often that certain artifacts of our speculations have become our reality.  Just like those other fandoms.  And then when Kishimoto delivers something we didn't expect -- and certainly didn't sanction (like elements of this chapter) -- we scream and tear out our hair, dissolving into something that's, well, not very pretty.

 

I think we've been looking for an emotional gradient, for more subtle shading when Kishimoto has been rendering his story in much broader strokes.  Maybe it's just a natural result of having so much time on our hands in between updates to overthink.

 

If there's one point to take away from this chapter, it's that Kishimoto is purposely working back through his story to link his characters and current events to the life goals and emotional milestones that he set up for them from the beginning.  He's circling back to connect the dots and tie up the loose ends.

 

In fact, many of us groaned because he has so obviously brought up Sakura's feelings for Sasuke -- again.  Naruto's determination to complete the PoaL, save his friend, and eventually become Hokage -- again.  Sasuke's struggle to let go of his hate and choose a positive life wherein he can experience a different kind of love and family -- again.  It's as plain as day, and I submit that it is supposed to be.

 

There is no need for us to search for Kishimoto's point.  He's painting us a picture in big, broad strokes of primary colors -- not some kind of Where's Waldo? exercise.

 

If Kishimoto is so obviously stepping back through the story to touch on and resolve his character milestones, then I believe we can be certain we will see the bench scene again in some form.  It's practically guaranteed now.

 

So I'll just leave you with this....

 

full circle

 

 

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with this. Now there's no doubt NaruSaku will be the end pairing. But if it's done like that then it's an empty victory.

Within one chapter Kishimoto nullified all the development Naruto and Sakura had in the entire part 2. Yes those moments are still there, but we found out that they meant nothing.

 

If Kishi is going for the forehead comment and this makes NS canon, then he basically admits that Naruto and Sakura have no real bond, that Sakura didn't chose him because he is the guy that makes her happy, understands her, supports her. Sakura only ended up choosing him because of one fantasy line. It worked with Minato and Kushina because those two were side characters. This sort of thing doesn't work with main characters, if you call Sakura a main character at this point considering how Kishi treats her.

The forehead comment should've been an extra. Not the main and only reason Sakura and Naruto got together. The forehead compliment should've been "You're the man that I love but you're also the man of my dreams. This makes me like you even more." - coming from Sakura.

We might as well have Lee telling Sakura she has a big forehead that makes him kiss it. And boom LeeSaku is canon. It's shallow and quite frankly pathetic if that's the way NS becomes canon.

[James S Cassidy]

Wait Kakashi has a role?

 

Exactly. That's why they are pissed.

[Naruko]

 

 

Within one chapter Kishimoto nullified all the development Naruto and Sakura had in the entire part 2. Yes those moments are still there, but we found out that they meant nothing.

 

I have to disagree. Not moving on from Sasuke doesn't mean she hasn't developed feelings for Naruto. One thing has no relation with the other. Of course there is a meaning for those moments. Their bond got much stronger.

[TyranntX]

So any Idea what dream Sakura is going to have under the genjutsu? Because I think its goint to make Sakura have a revelation (unlike the dreams of the other shinobi who are still being fed to a tree)

[Nostradamus]

 

I have to disagree. Not moving on from Sasuke doesn't mean she hasn't developed feelings for Naruto. One thing has no relation with the other. Of course there is a meaning for those moments. Their bond got much stronger.

Not moving from Sasuke made Narusaku not believable. It's completely unrealistic now, unless there's some sort of a master plan behind this latest chapter, which I doubt. While we've seen moments that tells us that Sakura is attracted to Naruto, we found out that those moments were nothing, because the entire time she just wanted Sasuke.

Kishimoto turned NaruSaku (which was the only true bond in this entire story, it's the only one that got proper development) into a relationship where Sakura wants Sasuke, and Naruto wants Sasuke.

Edited by Nostradamus, 29 September 2014 - 01:42 AM.

[Hiraishin]

@Nostradamus couldn't agree more with your last two posts.

Edited by Hiraishin, 29 September 2014 - 01:42 AM.

[luffyq1]

So any Idea what dream Sakura is going to have under the genjutsu? Because I think its goint to make Sakura have a revelation (unlike the dreams of the other shinobi who are still being fed to a tree)

Having a nice family with Sasuke with two boys and a girl. Naruto will be like their uncle who babysits them whenever Sasuke and Sakura have dinner reservations at Konoha restaurant.

[Syn11]

So any Idea what dream Sakura is going to have under the genjutsu? Because I think its goint to make Sakura have a revelation (unlike the dreams of the other shinobi who are still being fed to a tree)

I wouldn't count for it. Sakura probably lost her consciousness after she "died". I think, the whole genjutsu ended as soon as Sakura got stabbed. But it would be interesting to see her reaction when she comes to herself...

[ultranx]

I checked. Seesaa isn't a reliable spoiler site.

 

We should wait for raws or VIZ, if you're so interested. Anyone here has VIZ?

i do, i'm subscribed to sja

[chouzu_tao]

I wouldn't count for it. Sakura probably lost her consciousness after she "died". I think, the whole genjutsu ended as soon as Sakura got stabbed. But it would be interesting to see her reaction when she comes to herself...

 

Yeah, this is my guess too. The focus will now be on Naruto vs Sasuke. I really hope it isn't a mostly flashback chapter.

[Nostradamus]

@Nostradamus couldn't agree more with your last two posts.

I still can't believe how easily he hit the reset button. The only possible explanation I can think of right now is part 3. Hopefully he doesn't re-writing part 2, and by that I mean that he doesn't repeat the things that happened in part 2. Where Naruto is still trying to save Sasuke, he's still can't tell Sakura how he feels, etc.

 

Having a nice family with Sasuke with two boys and a girl. Naruto will be like their uncle who babysits them whenever Sasuke and Sakura have dinner reservations at Konoha restaurant.

I can already picture it.

[Iwantbuns]

I've been wondering... Does Sakura loving Sasuke, change anything about the feelings Sakura grew to have for Naruto? 

[ultranx]

Wait Kakashi has a role?

 

I'm sorry but I disagree with this. Now there's no doubt NaruSaku will be the end pairing. But if it's done like that then it's an empty victory.

Within one chapter Kishimoto nullified all the development Naruto and Sakura had in the entire part 2. Yes those moments are still there, but we found out that they meant nothing.

 

If Kishi is going for the forehead comment and this makes NS canon, then he basically admits that Naruto and Sakura have no real bond, that Sakura didn't chose him because he is the guy that makes her happy, understands her, supports her. Sakura only ended up choosing him because of one fantasy line. It worked with Minato and Kushina because those two were side characters. This sort of thing doesn't work with main characters, if you call Sakura a main character at this point considering how Kishi treats her.

The forehead comment should've been an extra. Not the main and only reason Sakura and Naruto got together. The forehead compliment should've been "You're the man that I love but you're also the man of my dreams. This makes me like you even more." - coming from Sakura.

We might as well have Lee telling Sakura she has a big forehead that makes him kiss it. And boom LeeSaku is canon. It's shallow and quite frankly pathetic if that's the way NS becomes canon.

and yet you guys still I guess don't realize the rinnegan genjutsu being like limited tsukiyomi would actually fix that. it is an option, it can happen, that's all I will say. everyone seems to act like road to ninja didn't happen yet infinite tsukiyomi happened and turned out similarly to road to ninja with the dreams, yet a limited tsukiyomi on sakura can't happen when the tsukiyomi concept has been a big factor this whole time, the whole big evil plan, the whole plot of road to ninja? let me remind you what the point of road to ninja was. It was that the limited tsukiyomi gave them what they thought was their heart desires but they realized it wasn't and they developed. now you're telling me even with the infinite version being canon it won't be a factor, the genjutsu put on sakura can't be one?

 

edit: I'm gonna add on to this. here's an idea: We don't know the specifics of rinnegan genjutsu or how infinite tsukiyomi is cast, now here's what I think, what if for the rinnegan any genjutsu you use with its power starts out as the normal torturous one and then right when it would normally end, in the rinnegan ones' case it transforms into a tsukiyomi? what if the infinite tsukiyomi was pulled off like that? we don't know. and were the dreams shown right when the genjutsu was cast? no they weren't, they were shown chapters later. and as someone said before, genjutsu are nonstop until the user stops it or someone cancels it, also if you remember the chunin exams all the people under the genjutsu were unconscious but caught in the genjutsu still, they had to have it canceled, sakura was the only exception because she somehow canceled it on her own. therefore the genjutsu sakura is in can still be in effect. now that I think about it, what if some genjutsus are temporary while others are permanent until the user cancels them or they are canceled, lets say like there are different lvls of genjutsu?

Edited by ultranx, 29 September 2014 - 02:54 AM.

[Syn11]

I've been wondering... Does Sakura loving Sasuke, change anything about the feelings Sakura grew to have for Naruto? 

No, it doesn't. But her possible lingering romantic affections towards Sasuke defer her development. It is an obstacle on Sakura and Naruto's path.

[chouzu_tao]

I still can't believe how easily he hit the reset button. The only possible explanation I can think of right now is part 3. Hopefully he doesn't re-writing part 2, and by that I mean that he doesn't repeat the things that happened in part 2. Where Naruto is still trying to save Sasuke, he's still can't tell Sakura how he feels, etc.

 

I can already picture it.

 

It's not much of a reset button, she's always still cared about Sasuke (whether it be love or not), it's just that Kishimoto hasn't allowed her to grow up about it and be pro-active.

 

I'm surprised how many people still believe that there'll be a part 3. First of all, it's a rare occurrence anime, secondly hasn't Kishimoto stated somewhere in an interview that Naruto is nearing it's end? He's going to be working on a new series isn't he?

 

I've been wondering... Does Sakura loving Sasuke, change anything about the feelings Sakura grew to have for Naruto? 

 

If this is indeed true, I think most NS fans feel like it cheapens her feelings for Naruto, with most probably see it as her settling for him.

[Khaleesi]

I've been wondering... Does Sakura loving Sasuke, change anything about the feelings Sakura grew to have for Naruto? 

No, it doesn't.

[Hiraishin]

I still can't believe how easily he hit the reset button. The only possible explanation I can think of right now is part 3. Hopefully he doesn't re-writing part 2, and by that I mean that he doesn't repeat the things that happened in part 2. Where Naruto is still trying to save Sasuke, he's still can't tell Sakura how he feels, etc.

Agreed. The reset coupled with the time skip movie and 'new era' definitely makes it seem like there's going to be a part three of sorts. I don't see why he felt the need to hit the reset button and mimic the ending of part one, though. Like, he should have tried to show how much everyone's changed (that would have been a good way to utilise the parallels he used this chapter) since then because now all of part two and the characters' growth seems pointless and irrelevant.

And, ugh, a repeat of part 2 could be the worst thing he could do with a part 3. Please, no.

i do, i'm subscribed to sja

Oh! Great, so perhaps you could provide us with Viz's translations when they release 693.

Edited by Hiraishin, 29 September 2014 - 02:11 AM.