4869 replies to this topic

[catsi563]

whether she was justified or not isnt the issue at hand. its whether the B**ch label is and it really isnt. Fannon has labeled her thusly and wrongly due to her actions and uses specious and false arguments to justify the label.

[Froot]

Okay; Fireandice was wrong to call Sakura a b*tch, and I was wrong to agree with him. Sakura is not a b*tch, nor was she ever, nor will she ever be. At most, she was an immature 12 year old who was mean to an equally immature 12 year old Naruto who at the time deserved it. Her actions cannot be justified, but Naruto and Sakura have moved on and grown up, so there is no reason to dwell on the past.

Ciardha, Jenskott, Miss Soupy, catsi, etc., you have my apologies for my false accusations of Sakura being a b*tch.

That said, I would much appreciate it if we moved on now.

[Miss Soupy]

@Froot

Then start a topic XD I'm not sure what else to discuss about recent chapters...really we have to sort of wait to see what happens. I think Sakura's actions when she faces Sasuke will be really telling. It would be nice to see her actively state she sides with Naruto in the face of her 'love' Sasuke. That is something I really would look forward to seeing X)

@catsi

That is up to ones opinion on the matter then and therefore no one is right and no one is wrong. Those who have a differing opinion however shouldn't be attacked if they have a reason to back it up. And since it was stated multiple times no one was bashing Sakura, I don't see the issue.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

Sounds more like you agree with me then. They were saying she was a complete b*tch and for no reason. Nope not a b*tch and she had reason to believe Naruto did, all he did in the Academy was play pranks and be an obnxious bragging loudmouth. Not a very good way to win someone over to like you, don't you think?

Oh Yes!,Ms. Ciardha ..I am quite agree, and in the bold part, quite frankly, it is natural of Sakura to think that of Naruto in that way. But to some extent, Sakura realized that she was wrong about Naruto.

It's not just due to that. It's been labeled as that for a while. Chapter 296 was probably the impetus, maybe earlier, but I didn't see it until maybe a year or two ago. I don't agree with the pity; it's sympathy. As to the rest, if that's all that I saw out of the relationship, I wouldn't wouldn't want them together either - even as friends or teammates.

I agree Sir Nick
Other fandoms will ever use those words concerning to their own OTP, making the other fandoms, especially they see some potential(yet they want to deny it, even stating it was ambiguous/platonic.)

@Pinkhearts
I think its silly when people try to argue you cannot love two people at once. While it is true that over time you will most likely become more attached to one out of two people you may be interested in, it is not impossible to love two at a time. It also bothers me when people say you can't choose who you love. Well, no, you can't always choose who you fall in love with. But many people who fall in love with someone who isn't all that nice or great to them don't end up sticking with them. And if they do, they are extremely unhappy with their lives. I don't think kishi means to have Sakura in a relationship that is bad for her.

I agree to what you said Miss Soupy,

[Miss Soupy]

Well, Sai has constantly been doing truth no jutsu with both Naruto and Sakura, so it is quite possible he does so again. If he tells Sakura that Naruto is really hurting, she might hesitate a bit. But, I think Kishi went through too many dramatics to have Sakura back down now. At least, I wouldn't think it would make much sense if she did. She needs to face Sasuke, but who knows how long kishi will put that off.

With Naruto...I think he will find his answer within himself. Probably through Itachi, but he may just come up with it on his own. He pretty much can't back down on his decision to save Sasuke, however. No matter what happens, I can't see him changing his ideals but rather he will try to justify them once again and then try and stop Sakura.

[Froot]

Oops... I deleted my post before Soupy's so now it looks like she double-posted... I'm sorry...

Anyways, Sasuke's borderline insane now, (I daresay just insane) and the sight of Sakura trying to kill him... Not good for his mental stability. Or Sakura's health. I'm pulling for Sakura just turning around to go help (a hopefully by then changed and determined) Naruto, then they go back together to face Sasuke.

[fireandice]

Uh, guys, sorry if I inadvertently started a brief storm in the teacup here.

Actually I didn't call Sakura a b***h in my post at all Bryon was just replying to my post as I was talking about how some NaruHina fans unfairly neglect all of Hinata's flaws and say that she's more caring than Sakura etc. etc.

For me, I don't think it's so much that Sakura was inherently mean. She was an immature 12-year old, and no doubt got a little influenced by how the villagers treated Naruto, though of course it was redeeming of her that already in Part 1 her attitude towards Naruto changes as she gets to know him. Even though she was still kinda crushing on Sasuke, she cheered Naruto on and things like that.

Okay, now on to the more recent chapters. Remember how Sakura said "All I've done is make mistakes, I don't want to make another one"- I got the feeling was that she wasn't just talking about giving Naruto the burden of the POAL, but also her feelings to towards Naruto and Sasuke. It ties back to the chapter when Yamato kinda went "heh" said to Sakura "It doesn't matter what you do, it's what you feel for him. Sakura, just by looking at you, I can tell-"

Honestly, when I saw that expression on his face, it struck me that he would not be going kinda of "oh sigh, this is sort of complicated" if he was just referring to a platonic/sibling kind of relationship between Naruto and Sakura- but rather if it was Sakura's romantic feelings towards Naruto.

Also, I know, the "friendly hug" (to use NaruHina fans' words" which has more or less been flogged to death here- also, come on, I noticed that the children and Kakashi in the background were blushing! Why would Kishi show that in the scene of a friendly hug? (:

I think Kakashi and Sai will probably be able to stop Sakura, and this whole thing is mainly setting up for Naruto and Sakura to thrash out what they are going to do about Sasuke. The whole thing about Sakura going to kill Sasuke is just showing her choice- she's accepted that Sasuke's not coming back or is beyond redemption, and she can't allow the POAL to cause her to lose/hurt Naruto too.

Edited by fireandice, 19 December 2009 - 04:14 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

@Froot
Hah, it's ok, I just moved my post ^^

But don't you think if Sakura turned around we would lose the opportunity to really get a good picture of what Sasuke means to Sakura? And wouldn't it sort of destroy this whole build up and make a lot of it pointless? I dunno, I really want to see Sakura meet Sasuke on her own.

But I do agree that Sasuke is becoming more and more lost in whatever that darkness Karin felt. I don't see him defeating Danzou right now, but who knows? I bet Danzou has some information that Madara neglected to reveal to Sasuke...

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

OK, I regret saying what I said, guys... X_X And I feel like all I've done was instigate a war for a simple mention of how Sakura SEEMED to come off, so I do apologize.

Anyhow, in these latest chapters, I wonder if Naruto will have the strength to actually think of what he has to do. Sure, Sasuke's his first friend, but he's overlooking the threat that Sasuke's become. And his actions could ignite a war. And in the long run, that also contradicts what Naruto wants most of all; to carry on Jiraiya's wish to have the world truly understand each other and to achieve peace.

Anyone else think that we're gonna be in for a LOT of soul searching for Naruto in the next few chapters if we see him again at all?? Will his being passed out mean some internal dialogue with himself? After all, even if he hasn't admitted it, we know Sai hinted at that Naruto is angry at Sasuke. There could be a number of reasons but the most basic ones being that he betrayed Squad 7's trust as well as what he told Sakura, and breaking her heart, and most of all... betraying his trust. I also could possibly see Naruto being angry at Sasuke for trying to kill him so many times...

Bryon

[Jenskott]

Oh, man. Is this debate still going?

Well, I intend going back on topic, so I am not going to argue further and I am not going to reply anybody. I think I have elaborated my point plainly, and it is water under the bridge now anyway. I hope Nate and all people has bothered in replying me (I haven't read your reply in spoiler tags, Soupy. I'm sorry, but If I read it, I might feel tempted to answer) can forgive me.

He really needs an internal monologue right now, if at least in the form of a dream. Maybe it's a little cliche, but I trust Kishi will put his own personal spin on it.

And at this point, with all the talking he's been getting, if he doesn't decide that Sasuke is a threat and needs to be dealt with... Well, I just may lose my respect for him.

But I think that's what the hyperventilating scene was depicting; All the flashbacks he was having of various people telling him how bad Sasuke was and that he needed to be stopped seemed to finally find its way through that thick skull of his, and he fainted, giving him time to really sort out things himself. Seems like a good lead-in.

If he does at all think of the Sasuke dilemma during this time, it was foreshadowed by the way he was thinking of it right before he fainted.

It would be nice if he decides if he loves Sasuke, he must kill him. Sai all but told that to him. And maybe that is because he was so shocked and stunned in that pannel. On the other hand, one of the main themes of this manga is "the newer generation will surpass the old one". So Naruto should succeed in redeeming Sasuke, since his master couldn't save his best friend.

Maybe he will decide killing him if he must, but he will manage talking him into reason during the battle.

As am I. Maybe on the trip back he wakes up from his self-realization dream and tells Yamato to turn around. Him going back to Konoha, or at least staying there would be utterly pointless.

Indeed, I can't see the logic in that movement. Unless Kishimoto is trying delaying the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke... but he has already delayed it many times.

However, he was hyperventillating and has fainted. Right now he can't be moved, and Kakashi and Yamato must carrying him to the nearest shelter (like the nearby hotel). So I don't think they are going to nowhere till he wakes up.

Hopefully, if Sai tells her, she'll turn around rather than go on. Maybe by that time Kakashi will have caught up with her?

Or I fear perhaps she will send Lee and Kiba after Naruto and go on to find Sasuke... I most certainly hope not.

We'll see. Perhaps Sai doesn't tell her.

If Naruto makes up his mind as he is sleeping (and here I would love seeing Ciardha's idea: his father's ghost appearing in his dream, giving him counsel and advice, and talking about his mother) and Sakura returns and is present when he wakes up, maybe we will have another conversation.

Anyways, Sasuke's borderline insane now, (I daresay just insane) and the sight of Sakura trying to kill him... Not good for his mental stability. Or Sakura's health. I'm pulling for Sakura just turning around to go help (a hopefully by then changed and determined) Naruto, then they go back together to face Sasuke.

But don't you think if Sakura turned around we would lose the opportunity to really get a good picture of what Sasuke means to Sakura? And wouldn't it sort of destroy this whole build up and make a lot of it pointless? I dunno, I really want to see Sakura meet Sasuke on her own.

But I do agree that Sasuke is becoming more and more lost in whatever that darkness Karin felt. I don't see him defeating Danzou right now, but who knows? I bet Danzou has some information that Madara neglected to reveal to Sasuke...

I think both of your arguments are quite valid. And it can go either way.

Also, I know, the "friendly hug" (to use NaruHina fans' words" which has more or less been flogged to death here- also, come on, I noticed that the children and Kakashi in the background were blushing! Why would Kishi show that in the scene of a friendly hug? (:

Because a Japanese child wouldn't see it like a friendly hug. And it wasn't a friendly hug.

Oh, and you don't need apologising.

Anyone else think that we're gonna be in for a LOT of soul searching for Naruto in the next few chapters if we see him again at all?? Will his being passed out mean some internal dialogue with himself?

Yes, I think it will do.

Edit:

OK, I regret saying what I said, guys... X_X And I feel like all I've done was instigate a war for a simple mention of how Sakura SEEMED to come off, so I do apologize.

No need for apologizing. Let's move on.

Edited by Jenskott, 19 December 2009 - 09:50 AM.

[Froot]

I have a theory to share.

What if Naruto is taken back to Konoha? But what if, after his inner monologue, he wakes up, and Sakura is there? They have their much needed heart-to-heart, where all the truth comes out; They tell each other everything. Then, maybe, they argue over the matter, but Naruto tells Sakura he has come to a decision. They agree that Sasuke must be stopped, and go together.

I know it's a longshot, but that is where I see things heading.

Someone else pointed out (I think it was you, Jenskott) that one of the manga's themes was the new generation surpassing the old, something I'd forgotten and something that throws a wrench into my theories. True, Naruto should succeed where Jiraiya failed and save his friend, but can Sasuke still be saved, or is he already too far gone at this point?

After all he's done, I would not be pleased if Sasuke was just allowed to waltz right back through the village gates. This is why I think he might be redeemed in death.

@fireandice:

It never occured to me that Sakura saying ''I won't make anymore mistakes'' could also have related to her feelings for Naruto and Sasuke. Which would make sense, because right after, she told Naruto she loved him. Definitely something to ponder.

@ Soupy

It would be kind of pointless, now that you mention it. But if Sakura hears about Naruto and still continues on, I don't know... But, this is kind of a solo, self discovery kind of thing for Sakura, huh. Who knows? Sai might not even tell Sakura about Naruto.

It would ge a good wake up call for Naruto to hear that Sakura is fighting Sasuke.

@ Byron

Yes, there does need to be alot of soul searching. Like I've said, hopefully, Narutp comes to the conclusion that Sasuke must be stopped.

@ Jenskott

I really hope Naruto does take Gaara's advice - and follow Sakura's example - and kill Sasuke out of love and mercy. Maybe Naruto might even kill Sasuke while succeeding where his master failef and try to save Sasuke in death; That is, after all, what Sakura is planning.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Sakura already figured it out - Sasuke can only be saved in death. So Naruto would be surpassing his master while saving the world.

[pinkheartsyellowstars]

@Froot
A plausible theory Froot I got a feeling also that Naruto will be the one who will tell Sakura, "Well do it Together"- a reverse scene in part 1

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I have a theory to share.

What if Naruto is taken back to Konoha? But what if, after his inner monologue, he wakes up, and Sakura is there? They have their much needed heart-to-heart, where all the truth comes out; They tell each other everything. Then, maybe, they argue over the matter, but Naruto tells Sakura he has come to a decision. They agree that Sasuke must be stopped, and go together.

I know it's a longshot, but that is where I see things heading.

Someone else pointed out (I think it was you, Jenskott) that one of the manga's themes was the new generation surpassing the old, something I'd forgotten and something that throws a wrench into my theories. True, Naruto should succeed where Jiraiya failed and save his friend, but can Sasuke still be saved, or is he already too far gone at this point?

After all he's done, I would not be pleased if Sasuke was just allowed to waltz right back through the village gates. This is why I think he might be redeemed in death.

@ Byron

Yes, there does need to be alot of soul searching. Like I've said, hopefully, Narutp comes to the conclusion that Sasuke must be stopped.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Sakura already figured it out - Sasuke can only be saved in death. So Naruto would be surpassing his master while saving the world.

Yeah. I think why this is so hard for Naruto is because of how Sasuke was his first friend. And I know it was hard for Sakura to realize what she had to do too, Froot, considering that she had a lot weighing on her before deciding to go see Naruto and attempt to tell him what the rest of the Leaf 11 had decided to do in regards with Sasuke. I mean, Sai had just told her Naruto loves her, and she broke down from that, realizing she'd never notice at all that Naruto loved her all this time, as well as what Sai said. Add on top what the others had in mind, and it was enough to hurt Sakura a lot, but she knew what had to be done.

I agree on that. After all, I think it'd make sense too if Sasuke is redeemed in death itself. Considering he's basically become evil itself.

One reason I believe too that Naruto has been stuck on wanting to save Sasuke is the desire to want things to be the same again for Squad 7. Even if that's no longer doable thanks to all of Sasuke's actions and his association with the Akatsuki.

I admire Naruto's guts, but this is one of those times he'll have to do something tough, in order to protect those he loves. After all, Itachi did tell him what he had said was a pipe dream realistically, even IF he admired the fact Naruto was willing to find a way to protect the Leaf Village and stop Sasuke without killing him. Though as of now, he's really in a pickle.

And thanks, Froot. It only makes sense Naruto'd need soul searching right now. After all, some of the battles he's been in have been so black and white. Now he's bogged down in the greys due to trying to protect the bonds he shared with Sasuke.

Bryon

[Devil Keyz]

Well I think Naruto will end up havin' a hand in Sasukays death and if he does... PAARRYAAYYYYEEE

Edited by Devil Keyz, 19 December 2009 - 08:20 PM.

[Jenskott]

Someone else pointed out (I think it was you, Jenskott) that one of the manga's themes was the new generation surpassing the old, something I'd forgotten and something that throws a wrench into my theories. True, Naruto should succeed where Jiraiya failed and save his friend, but can Sasuke still be saved, or is he already too far gone at this point?

Maybe. That is a possibility.

Of course it's possible we are jumping to conclusions and the "new generation surpasssing the old one" theme doesn't mean Naruto will convince Sasuke is he wrong and he must foreswear all evil and seek redemption.

Two years ago, Kishimoto mentioned in one interview Naruto and Shikamaru needed growing up and Sakura needs growing up as well. A lot of people -me included- interpreted his words meant Tsunade was going to pass away, since Naruto and Shikamaru lost their senseis (and Asuma's death played an important role in Shikamaru's growing, right like Jiraiya's death would force Naruto to grow up). When Pain set off towards Konoha, many thought Tsunade's death was inminent.

But she didn't. And when you dwell on his words, he never said Tsunade would die or her death would be Sakura's maturing trigger. People just assumed things and jumped conclusions.

[Froot]

As I said, it was a bit of a stretch. Not one for predictions anyways. I guess I'm just trying to sustain myself until the next chapter comes out

By the way, does anyone know exactly when it's coming out?

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

As I said, it was a bit of a stretch. Not one for predictions anyways. I guess I'm just trying to sustain myself until the next chapter comes out

By the way, does anyone know exactly when it's coming out?

I've heard the new chapter is due in 2 weeks since the last Shonen Jump in Japan was a double issue.

Bryon

[Jenskott]

Going back to the topic, I think this year nearly all shippers who willfully denied Character A loved Character B have eaten crow.

It was confirmed Hinata loves Naruto. It was confirmed Naruto loves Sakura. It was confirmed Sakura loves Naruto for Sakura herself and another source. Though the other source suggested she still loved Naruto.

It should teach shippers to not refusing facing something only because they may interfere with their ship, but I doubt it (and maybe I need that lesson on humility as well, but I haven't realized).

Perhaps it will sound petulant, but it is pretty much what I had figured out (I never doubted Hinata loved Naruto or Naruto loved Sakura, and I thought it was painfully obvious Sakura was falling in love with Naruto), with one exception: I doubted Sakura was still in love with Sasuke, but now it seems some old feelings still linger.

Still I think the question isn't "Whom will Sakura choose?", but "Will they (Naruto and Sakura) or Will they not?".

We shall see.

[ciardha]

I've heard the new chapter is due in 2 weeks since the last Shonen Jump in Japan was a double issue.

Bryon

Yeah first spoilers will probably be out right before New Years Eve, but if it's like last year the full chapter will be late coming out- not until around Sunday or even Monday Jan 4, 2010.

[Froot]

Thank you for the confirmations, Bryon and Ciardha

Going back to the topic, I think this year nearly all shippers who willfully denied Character A loved Character B have eaten crow.

Agreed. I know I have. I used to say ''Hinata only admires Naruto, not loves him,'' as I heard it in Heronite's essay. I will admit to that.

But even with confirmation, there will always be denial. I suppose two hugs and one ''I love you'' isn't enough to convince someone.

It should teach shippers to not refusing facing something only because they may interfere with their ship...

It should, but sadly, it probably won't.

Still I think the question isn't "Whom will Sakura choose?", but "Will they (Naruto and Sakura) or Will they not?".

I couldn't have said it better myself. It's obvious she isn't choosing Sasuke - especially after her talk about him being a dangerous criminal she could never love. So now, it's down to Naruto and Sakura; Will they or won't they?

We shall see.

Makes me wonder what 2010 will bring.