9679 replies to this topic

[Darth Krypt]

I don't know that it wasn't bashing, but it was rather condescending.

Sorry if it appeared to aggressive. I'm just saying NH fans need to be more sensible in their arguments if they want to prove their point. I'm open to NH discussion but most of the fans don't seem to give the adequate response. I would really like to see one good argument with facts from the manga.

Edited by Darth Krypt, 25 April 2011 - 02:18 AM.

[The Tax-Man]

Sorry if it appeared to aggressive. I'm just saying NH fans need to be more sensible in their arguments if they want to prove their point. I'm open to NH discussion but most of the fans don't seem to give the adequate response. I would really like to see one good argument with facts from the manga.

Unfortunately for us, I don't think that's likely. Believe me. I've tried. I always get a troll or some random person that acts like a three year old. Sometimes I just get a feeling that people that actually think and like NH don't like to defend it :/. Seriously, why is it that no one ever seems to have a mature discussion? Not bashing anyone, but either they lose control in an actual argument or don't even care if their points make any sense.

[Phantom_999]

Well thanks for your support Darth Krypt and It is nice to meet you Kage Nate

[ciardha]

Unfortunately for us, I don't think that's likely. Believe me. I've tried. I always get a troll or some random person that acts like a three year old. Sometimes I just get a feeling that people that actually think and like NH don't like to defend it :/. Seriously, why is it that no one ever seems to have a mature discussion? Not bashing anyone, but either they lose control in an actual argument or don't even care if their points make any sense.

The rational ones I've met at anime cons admit NH isn't going to happen, they just like it because Hinata is their favorite character. When I've talked to ones like that and suggest that perhaps Hinata might get together with Kiba and point out things in the story (Hinata likes Kiba and Kiba has some feelings for her, and he prefers gentle girls) they tend to respond positively. I even saw one girl the next year at an anime con and she and her boyfriend were actually cosplaying as Hinata and Kiba. I think the more rational ones probably are shifting over to Kibahina as it actually has a chance of happening.

[Greed-Sama]

The rational ones I've met at anime cons admit NH isn't going to happen, they just like it because Hinata is their favorite character. When I've talked to ones like that and suggest that perhaps Hinata might get together with Kiba and point out things in the story (Hinata likes Kiba and Kiba has some feelings for her, and he prefers gentle girls) they tend to respond positively. I even saw one girl the next year at an anime con and she and her boyfriend were actually cosplaying as Hinata and Kiba. I think the more rational ones probably are shifting over to Kibahina as it actually has a chance of happening.

Where is the evidence for this Kibahina? Seriously I would like you to point to the manga chapters because I don't recall any of these comments from Kiba. I like the dynamic but I always figured it a crack pairing.

[Outou]

Well, I like KibaHina too～♥　Kiba is very protective of her ( for example look back at ch 78: Neji & Hinata, where Kiba told her not to push herself and fight a battle she can't win), I 'm not 100% sure about Hinata's feelings towards Kiba, because... well... she's nice with everyone, Kiba's not an exception. And yes, the guy she had a crush on up until now was Naruto, but I feel like she's already given up on him, judging by her reaction in ch 450. I doubt that we'll see any KibaHina moments soon, because, hey, it's war! It's time for the real heroes of the story to shine! (but in the future... hope Kishi will resolve everything).

Edited by Outou, 25 April 2011 - 09:05 AM.

[catsi563]

pretty much the major strength of NaruHina arguments lies in the fact that if you look at them from the beginning, the arguments they have make sense and have a basic foundation upon which to build a relationship.

This small foundation forms the core of their arguments.

The problem lies in the fact that the core base of the arguments relies on the premise that naruto would eventuialy notice her and reciprocate her feelings.

had this become the case then they could make a solid case for the pariing. However this has not occured and every single opportunity for the two to confront the issue has gone by the wayside most often with a whimper which is much worse then going by with a bang.

Had the moments been interupted then argument could be made that the comedic interruption trope was used and thus when an important moment comes around again theyll speak what needs to be spoken. However this again does not occur.

And in point of fact occurs more with Sakura and Naruto who have these complex moments interrupted comically with a bang (the feeding scene as example, and the KN4 aftermath) where the trope is employed to effect.

Naruhina in the end analysis suffers the same fate as other shy girl Main guy romances. The Shy girl as it turns out is a relatively minor character (hinata), or plot device (orihime) who simply doesnt register on the heroes radar. And who takes her big moment of confession and then quietly fades into the background.

[Codus N]

The rational ones I've met at anime cons admit NH isn't going to happen, they just like it because Hinata is their favorite character. When I've talked to ones like that and suggest that perhaps Hinata might get together with Kiba and point out things in the story (Hinata likes Kiba and Kiba has some feelings for her, and he prefers gentle girls) they tend to respond positively. I even saw one girl the next year at an anime con and she and her boyfriend were actually cosplaying as Hinata and Kiba. I think the more rational ones probably are shifting over to Kibahina as it actually has a chance of happening.

Hmm.... Ch. 498 seems to be hinting that Kiba might end up with a "scary girl" which is quite possible since we have new characters like Karui and Kurotsuchi. I wouldn't put it past Kishi to suddenly pair him up with Karin too. Hinata might end up with Chojuro (the 7 swordsman-boy) considering they're quite similar and Chojuro really likes girls with a very caring motherly attitude.

[Outou]

Hmm.... Ch. 498 seems to be hinting that Kiba might end up with a "scary girl" which is quite possible since we have new characters like Karui and Kurotsuchi. I wouldn't put it past Kishi to suddenly pair him up with Karin too. Hinata might end up with Chojuro (the 7 swordsman-boy) considering they're quite similar and Chojuro really likes girls with a very caring motherly attitude.

Can you, please, explain where do you see a hint here? I don't really get it.

I wouldn't pair wild guys with wild girls, same goes for shy pairings. Just try to imagine their kids!! I guess that partners should be like plus and minus (not completely of course! they also should be alike). Just look at Naruto and Sakura they both have fiery personalities, but Sakura controls herself way better than Naruto + she can always cool him down.

[Phantom_999]

The rational ones I've met at anime cons admit NH isn't going to happen, they just like it because Hinata is their favorite character. When I've talked to ones like that and suggest that perhaps Hinata might get together with Kiba and point out things in the story (Hinata likes Kiba and Kiba has some feelings for her, and he prefers gentle girls) they tend to respond positively. I even saw one girl the next year at an anime ;_con and she and her boyfriend were actually cosplaying as Hinata and Kiba. I think the more rational ones probably are shifting over to Kibahina as it actually has a chance of happening.

Hi guys! so um ciardha when did it state that Kiba liked gentle girls? or is it an assumption to to calmly reason with NaruHina fans? not that I'm arguing against you just wondering it never occurred to me in the manga and Catsi SO TRUE what you said about NaruHina arguments but I more like they think its more like they hate Sakura because because she harshly rejected Naruto in the beginning and shamelessly flirts and chases after Sasuke I along with many others blame the anime this because whe you compare the two Sakura did not treat Naruto anywhere near as bad in the manga as she did in the anime and I think Most fans not from Japan watched the anime first (I'm one of them) now I'll admit I believed that biased translated interview at the beginning of last year but only because I did not see any other that translated differently well maybe one (but it was removed by someone) that said in regard to the Naruto Sakura and Sasuke thing " We all know Sakura loved Sasuke, That we can be sure because of her speech, but remember that Naruto will always be closer to her" or something like that anyway I just thought of something The Negative comments on Sakura due to haters of her character or(this is just my speculation) because Naruto did not react in the way they expected I'm sure the were expecting Naruto to instantly accept her confession and go back with her like a love sick puppy heck we all were expecting that but Naruto did it cancels out the maturity he gained Of course he could not believe her it just came out of nowhere for him He had no idea what everyone was planning back home so It was out of the blue for him

[tricksie]

The other aspect of the Naru/Hina thing, and why it doesn't hold water, is that it's basically Sasu/Saku but with different characters.

Sakura is from an anonymous clan has a crush on a powerful heir of a powerful clan/bloodline.

Hinata is from a powerful clan and has a crush on an anonymous kid with a lot of power and — most importantly to her — heaps and heaps of self-esteem. Enough to float him through the terrible life he lived up until his genin days.

But where they diverge is that Sakura is changed herself. And she had done it for the greater good: for herself and so that she will be a better teammate to the two. She didn't do it hoping that Sasuke would notice her. And she has pulled herself up from her bootstraps to become what everyone says will be more powerful. Without the aid of crazy powers like Sasuke and Naruto, or strong bloodlines like Hinata and Ino.

This ability to change, and then being brave enough to actually push yourself through that transformation, is the quality that defines the hero/heroine.

Hinata, however, has not radically changed herself. She has matured in her powers, but she is still shy and not naturally brave (so no big personal blossoming there like Sakura had, early on with Ino and again with Tsunade). However, the most important hurdle she's not crossed is that of her family. Early on she was picked over her sister as the heir, even though the sister was more talented. Lots of sympathy generated for her position, but there was no resolution.

In the chuunin exam, she fought Neji...more sympathy there. But in the end, the fight was more about Neji's resolving his personal problems with the clan than Hinata finally being accepted by her father. The spotlight even shifts from the 'Hinata and her father' conflict to 'Neji and her father'. The next thing we see is Hinata giving Naruto the cream. Awww, more sympathy. But no resolution, no great sacrifice on her part and no radical change.

So when she comes to the Pain battlefield and spills this confession, we have to take her word for it that she's had some big personal transformation. But there is absolutely not one bit of storyline for it. She shows her matured skills, basically says she did it for him, and is immediately struck down. And we are supposed to applaud her sacrifice for him. But this was an easy sacrifice for her to make.

It would have been harder if she went home, declared to her father that she admired Naruto and was soundly denounced for it. It would have been harder if she went home and declared her love for Naruto, then her father tossed out of the clan. Those would have been actual, active sacrifices.

Instead, she makes the passive sacrifice of taking the bullet for her love. Passive. She speaks of sacrifice and growth, but if you look at it in black-and-white she has done very little compared to Sakura and Naruto (and even Sasuke) for their respective causes.

Which brings me to my point: I don't think Hinata will be paired with anyone outside her clan. To marry outside her clan would involve bucking traditions, going against plans laid out for her. And her life is dictate by those plans: she's the clan princess. She may be strong, she may admire Naruto, she may even believe that she loves/loved him, but she has never once defied her clan or even expressed dissatisfaction with them. Kiba and Shino come from strong clans — and I don't think the Hyuugas would allow their heir to become the wife of a random kid of a lesser clan. And Hinata has shown zero inclination to defy them. I think she's going to be paired with some anonymous sanctioned member of their clan, like the guy who so adamant about saving her at the Pain invasion.

I'd say to hang your Hyuuga hopes on Neji. He's someone I completely expect to defy his clan and marry where he chooses, and his storyline supports that.

Edited by tricksie, 25 April 2011 - 02:02 PM.

[Super Boom]

Naruhina in the end analysis suffers the same fate as other shy girl Main guy romances. The Shy girl as it turns out is a relatively minor character (hinata), or plot device (orihime) who simply doesnt register on the heroes radar. And who takes her big moment of confession and then quietly fades into the background.

Hmm, that's a very good point, though I don't know if the Bleach comparison really holds too much water. I wouldn't really call Orihime shy as much as silly, and she didn't really fade into the background any more than Rukia or Nel, in my opinion. I don't really know how many NaruSaku fans are also IchiRuki fans, but I personally find that the two series are too drastically different to compare the romantic subplots. Personally I prefer IchiOri, though mostly because I can't see Ichigo ending up with a Shinigami or an Arrancar, with both of them being like 20 times his age or something. But this isn't a Bleach shipping thread, so I'll change the subject.

I guess I see NaruHina not happening for the sole reason that she strikes me as a romantic foil character. Most of the proposed NaruHina scenes seem to be used to develop Hinata alone, or just for comedic effect. On top of that, Kishimoto essentially confirmed Naruto's love for Sakura after Hinata's confession, and so I can't see Hinata being anything more than a 'consolation prize' for Naruto. And considering the manga is named after him, I'm guessing he's going to get what he wants.

Edited by Boom...Winning, 25 April 2011 - 02:43 PM.

[Darth Krypt]

Which brings me to my point: I don't think Hinata will be paired with anyone outside her clan. To marry outside her clan would involve bucking traditions, going against plans laid out for her. And her life is dictate by those plans: she's the clan princess. She may be strong, she may admire Naruto, she may even believe that she loves/loved him, but she has never once defied her clan or even expressed dissatisfaction with them. Kiba and Shino come from strong clans — and I don't think the Hyuugas would allow their heir to become the wife of a random kid of a lesser clan. And Hinata has shown zero inclination to defy them. I think she's going to be paired with some anonymous sanctioned member of their clan, like the guy who so adamant about saving her at the Pain invasion.

Naruto isn't a random kid of a lesser clan. The Uzumaki clan is the one of the most renowned clan in the shinobi world. Its related to the Senju clan and specialised in sealing techniques, with one of them becoming the first kyubi jinchuriki.

Other than that your points on Hinata being linked too much with sympathy are so true, can't agree with you more. That's the only reason why people support Hinata and would like her to be with Naruto.

[Derock]

Naruto isn't a random kid of a lesser clan. The Uzumaki clan is the one of the most renowned clan in the shinobi world. Its related to the Senju clan and specialised in sealing techniques, with one of them becoming the first kyubi jinchuriki.

That doesn't count because back then many people in the village doesn't even know (exclude a few) that he has a heritage.

[Darth Krypt]

That doesn't count because back then many people in the village doesn't even know (exclude a few) that he has a heritage.

But he was known as Uzumaki Naruto from the beginning of the series right?

[tricksie]

Naruto isn't a random kid of a lesser clan. The Uzumaki clan is the one of the most renowned clan in the shinobi world. Its related to the Senju clan and specialised in sealing techniques, with one of them becoming the first kyubi jinchuriki.

lol - I didn't mean Naruto in that one. But I can see how it came across that way! I meant Kiba or Shino. They are both from clans with a strong bloodline, but there's no mention of their families' importance or the two boys' particular prowess with their inherited powers. Thinking of them compared with Sasuke or Itachi, who are prodigies even among their own clan.

And I was also thinking of who Hinata's father might approve of. I could see him wanting Hinata, the "princess" of the clan, to marry the most promising counterpart of another clan. Only for that reason would Hinata/Sasuke be viable. Powerful clan, powerful shinobi, plus the benefit of basically adopting him into their clan because he has none left.

And the same can be said of Naruto. Powerful shinobi, powerful heritage on both sides, plus son of the previous Kage would make him extremely famous. But Derock's right: Most people don't know of his background. And I get the feeling the Hyuugas would only accept him once they knew who he really was. But Sakura's accepted him all along. (For the record, Hinata has as well, but it's always been terribly passive, as I've said a couple posts up.)

[MangaReader]

But he was known as Uzumaki Naruto from the beginning of the series right?

Well yes that's true in part, but if everyone knew Naruto was from such a great clan, don't you think he would have been treated better? Even Kakashi in the beginnnig didn't have to much respect for Naruto and he was the student of Naruto's father. See the reason all of this was known now is so the story can further expand and that way Naruto still had a tough childhood that made him into the awesome Ninja he is today

[Phantom_999]

OH EVERYONE!!! I just thought of a reason why a lot of fans hate Sakura now this is something I've pondered about just now so bear with me. maybe its not so as Sakura being a tsundere type girl as much as they feel sorry for or pity Naruto? I mean he had really harsh past and was hated by the whole village, his peers even followed their parents' example without even knowing why and more than anything Naruto had no family or real friends before the start. so maybe Sakura isn't hated for being a tsundere as much as they don't like Naruto being treated like that after everything he's been through. I'm sure that somewhere in her haters' mind they're thinking THAT B**CH(or whatever) DOESN'T KNOW WHAT NARUTO IS GOING THROUGH!!!! HOW DARE SHE TREAT HIM LIKE THAT!!!!!! I'll admit that I did not like her attitude to Naruto at first because I thought he has already had a rough childhood so why should the girl he has a crush on treat him as an annoyance or like dirt? so I am talking from personal experience too. I mean think about it you hear don't that many complaints about other tsundere ove interests because maybe the person affectionate to them doesn't have a history that tugs at your heart strings,right? you don't even see typical tsunderes say for instance Kagome/Sango from Inuyasha, Akane from Ranma1/2 or Naru from Love Hina get THIS much hate just for being tsundere.......well at least to my knowledge. so what do you think? does this make sense?

Edited by Phantom_999, 25 April 2011 - 05:44 PM.

[bthug]

Okay so this i my first post. I'm sure there other threads like this but i really wanted to do this, so bare with me plz. So...

NARUSAKU: For some reason i get really sucked into couples, and I get depressed if couples don't work out the way I hoped it really gets me down for weeks but something like this haunt me for years, if it doesnt happen. Also I must say this couple I absolutely LOVE. I feel like their perfect for each other and they have so many moments together that are truly amazing and touching.
I hope this couple happens at the end when its all said and done.

I guess I'm gonna write everything that i feel about Narusaku right now kind of like a rant, cause the only reason i joined was cause i felt like venting maybe you guys understand me.

Right now I'm kind of hurt because from what i hear Narusaku took a big step backwards, some even say its a nail in the coffin, I'm referring to Chapter 469 sakura's apparent fake confession, actually i dont agree that its fake but it definitely was not sincere or what we expected.
And UNFORTUNATELY Naruhina took a step forward with Hinata's confession.
It seems like all the Narusaku fans think it wont happen our way and all the Naruhina fans think we've won.

Personally I see all of this only playing out a couple of ways and i will try to give proof.

Narusaku: I see them coming closer and closer and having more of those moments which I love..Proof IMO is...all the undeniable moments, Yammato speech to Sakura, Sakura's hug to Naruto, Naruto's clear love for her throughout the series, Naruto always protecting her...Now stuff that I've HEARD Naruto's Mom saying to love someone more like Sakura...Naruto reconsiders her confession....I'm sure their is more but i cant think or haven't heard of them yet....Also I dont get the point in showing and having so many moments between the two of them, if their not going to end up together.

Naruhina: I hate even writing this, but IMO UNFORTUNATELY I think this will happen I say that because I find it strange that they would make another character like the main loser character.
Another reason is that they got the confession out of hinata and never went back to it so they wanna keep it "pure" and Naruto will always know that hinata likes him so that they could always go back to it at the end of the series. Also apparently sakura knows about the confession and other ppl know hinata like naruto so maybe one day on a leisure day someone will be like "oh why don't u ask out hinata"
Also after sakura confessed they made it so that Naruto looks like the one who turned down sakura, so we could blame him as its a decision he makes....He also says "he hates people that lie to themselves" And it seems pretty evident that Sakura still has feelings for saskue, but I will get to this later. Also ppl who say that sakura is becoming sisterly/ or friendly might have a point,but its hard to draw the line.

Everyone ends up alone/Nobody gets Anyone/Stupid picture at the end that "hints" to couples: I feel like these are all very likely to happen, it is more kid-oriented anime.

Naruhina and Sakura is either alone or with some dude or saskue: This could happen if saskue comes back a changed man, hopefully not. Also i can see her being alone, because if the confession to naruto was the nail in the coffin and he ends up with hinata i can see her being alone and just being his friend.


Also i was curious about one thing if someone could help me out, after Chapter 469 is there anymore Narusaku moments? Cause i hear that naruto is pissed at her and that he's changed so maybe it is the nail in the coffiin, I hope not.

I hope Naruto and Sakura fall in Love.
Narusaku<3333